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Oh, I forgot to take into account Aegis+! I knew it seemed too easy. I will consider AT. Any particular reason why you recommend Deliverer over Vengeance rather than over BF?

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To ORKO Thronie with Vengeance and no BF, you need at least 66 damage taken on Avatar. Is it worth it to get the Thronie kill in exchange for the slight power loss otherwise (having more power does decrease weapon uses)? If so, you can keep Vengeance. But I'd just poke him and then OHKO with someone else (he doesn't have Vantage+ or anything).

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My favourites pairings are those who make my childrens able to be mercenaries And sorcerer :p but I prefer mercenaries most to play with the legendary weapons without having to abuse of infinite regalia. a shame that only 5 or 6 childrens can do that :(

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It begins.

(Although I'm doing a last moment number crunch on Chrom...

Do I really take Defender or do I take Rightful King...)

Defender is under the assumption I swap to General for pounding the Invincisorcs into the dirt.

...But I probably could just full heal Severa and slug them.

Since Sumia actually does jack**** to Thronie as General I'm probably not.

...Chrom just needs to finish the dastards off and hurt Thronie somewhat.

...I'm gonna swap (skills). If I feel I don't like the results, I'll start over and swap back.

Edited by Airship Canon

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To ORKO Thronie with Vengeance and no BF, you need at least 66 damage taken on Avatar. Is it worth it to get the Thronie kill in exchange for the slight power loss otherwise (having more power does decrease weapon uses)? If so, you can keep Vengeance. But I'd just poke him and then OHKO with someone else (he doesn't have Vantage+ or anything).

What I don't understand is how Vengeance over BF is a power loss. Doesn't it outdamage BF as long as the Avatar has taken at least 12 damage?

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Yes, but Vengeance on a Sniper requires deliberate setup.

Basically, Vengeance will be more powerful (marginally), but requires a good bit of extra player focus. In a no holds barred run, you're already rolling in overkill and can afford to cut some complicated things for the sake of faster, easier clears that are more immune to player error. I don't know if you want to cut anything, but if you do, a Vengeance that only makes a difference on three enemies (when you're very hurt) is the first thing to drop.

My favourites pairings are those who make my childrens able to be mercenaries And sorcerer :p but I prefer mercenaries most to play with the legendary weapons without having to abuse of infinite regalia. a shame that only 5 or 6 childrens can do that :(

OK. So what exactly do you want help with?

Edited by Czar_Yoshi

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I think you're missing the point of this thread.

A lot of people have been asking for this, but nobody has done it yet. Instead of doing any more pairing optimization topics, if you want help with your pairings, you post in this thread, and other members will assist. It's very simple. Many people consider pairing topics to be annoying and unnecessary and it would be more helpful for newbies to go to a specific thread for optimization. Please remember that this is a strictly gameplay-oriented thread, so no shipping wars. Support-based pairings can go elsewhere. If you have any optimization-related questions, post here; don't make a new thread. Thank you.

This is where you come to ask for help with your pairings, or to help other people with theirs.

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Oh I see now,thanks. My main goal is to make the most powerful team I can, vaguely using Apo as the standard for what "powerful" is because there isn't really a better one. I guess power is kind of hard to measure outside of big numbers once a pair is overkill for even Apo.

I'll probably play through Apo once or twice using the overpowered kids to get a feel for it before I start trying challenge runs. Maybe using their parents would be a good first challenge run.

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Erm I just misread I thought it was for discussing about pairing, not for asking help

It is. But you haven't mentioned your pairings...

Oh I see now,thanks. My main goal is to make the most powerful team I can, vaguely using Apo as the standard for what "powerful" is because there isn't really a better one. I guess power is kind of hard to measure outside of big numbers once a pair is overkill for even Apo.

Hence why challenge runs are a thing. Have overkill? Just turn down a universal power buff (like banning LB, Rally or some other skill) and watch it become important.

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Hence why challenge runs are a thing. Have overkill? Just turn down a universal power buff (like banning LB, Rally or some other skill) and watch it become important.

Maybe I should scrap my team plan and start over then, since it's partly intended to create extra 100% DS pairs at full power, which will be wasted effort if I even take away LB...

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Nah. Challenge teams are usually pretty different from main teams, due to some things becoming much more important and other things becoming much less, which can often make them less fun to use on No Holds Barred, so I don't recommend having a challenge team on your main file (unless you put a ton of thought into making a dual purpose team, that is). And you have three files anyway and have just spent months planning this team, so I'd go ahead and make it and then think about challenges after you've used it a few times.

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Nah. Challenge teams are usually pretty different from main teams, due to some things becoming much more important and other things becoming much less, which can often make them less fun to use on No Holds Barred, so I don't recommend having a challenge team on your main file (unless you put a ton of thought into making a dual purpose team, that is). And you have three files anyway and have just spent months planning this team, so I'd go ahead and make it and then think about challenges after you've used it a few times.

If by "less fun" you mean "It's too powerful/complete overkill", then yeah.

Swap out some +Hit skills and those teams become godmode at full power.

Note, I'm now on Wave 4 of the No DLC/No Rally SR clear [err, end of wave 3/start of wave 4 intermission].

...80 DPS on Invinicisorc was great, and Yarne with Rhythm rocks socks [rigged the Invincisorc 1 fight to end on a even turn, tacking 10 more hit on to Yarne].

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Edit: Didn't quote Czar because AC's post didn't exist when I started writing. My phone makes it a pain in the ass to copypaste and I'm too lazy to turn my computer on to edit a quote in.

You're right, thanks! I'll start making it as soon as I max Renown on my current file. I will definitely give Donnel!Noire a pair of Boots, so she and Stahl!Inigo have a few options.

General x Assassin: Mov is on the low side, but it seems powerful. Noire hits 69 Speed. Inigo hits 73.

Sniper x Assassin: Solid-looking, but sort of boring since MU x Yarne and Morgan x Kjelle are also doing this.

Sniper x Sage, mix up pairings: Ricken!Inigo would work for this, but a Sniper's slightly wimpy DS while also not giving +Mag looks like the last thing Inigo would want. I would probably use Ricken!Laurent instead, giving Inigo to Severa and Gerome to Nah. The other issue is that Noire manages to hit exactly 68 Speed with AS+2, so either she would have to drop Bowfaire for Speed +2 or trade dads with Kjelle, forcing Kjelle to take AS+2.

Do any of these look good? I'm somewhat leaning toward General x Assassin.

Edited by isetrh

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If by "less fun" you mean "It's too powerful/complete overkill", then yeah.

Swap out some +Hit skills and those teams become godmode at full power.

Partially. Fun is subjective though, so it's kind of a moot point.

General x Assassin: Mov is on the low side, but it seems powerful. Noire hits 69 Speed. Inigo hits 73.

One thing to remember about Mov is that enemies tend to be clumped together in Apo, meaning you need a big burst of it to reach them safely but then it doesn't matter once you're in. That's why I never talk about +Mov bonuses from 8 Mov units, they'll be upfront when it matters. So unless you're worried about turncounts, General's Mov isn't as big of a flaw as you would think.

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One thing to remember about Mov is that enemies tend to be clumped together in Apo, meaning you need a big burst of it to reach them safely but then it doesn't matter once you're in. That's why I never talk about +Mov bonuses from 8 Mov units, they'll be upfront when it matters. So unless you're worried about turncounts, General's Mov isn't as big of a flaw as you would think.

In that case, would it be better to give Inigo the Boots instead of Noire? That way they would have 8 Mov to get to the first enemy instead of 7.

Edited by isetrh

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Great, thanks!

Do wimpy Dual Strikes become a problem for Sumia!Lucina if she's married to a Galeboy? Seems like they might with only a +1 mod and no room for TF.

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She more than makes up for it with 100% DS magical hits. She's not got too much power to spare, but as long as you let her take the lead on bosses she'll still be one of your strongest pairs.

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She more than makes up for it with 100% DS magical hits. She's not got too much power to spare, but as long as you let her take the lead on bosses she'll still be one of your strongest pairs.

Alright, thanks. Making her a hard lead married to Ricken!Laurent is looking more appealing the more I think about it though. Ricken!Laurent has a broad spectrum of +Hit skills to compliment DS+, and doesn't care about her lack of Faire. I'm not sure what I would do with Libra!Owain if I did this though--Cynthia already has Henry!Brady, so maybe a he could marry Donnel!Noire @ Bride with Inigo going to Severa? Or maybe I should just leave things as they are. Most of my team will spend most of its time killing mooks, and even a weak 100% DS (Owain's turn; I know that Lucina is the best unit in the game when she's in front) should excel at that.

Edited by isetrh

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In aspect, I could actually have used ODF on Morgan to get her to have 100% dodge against them lances, but after her godstomp on Soldiers, I don't think that was necessary [lol 3 Hit, 0 for "Boss" Soldier]

...and it would lower her offense, and probably hurt me elsewhere.

Now taking Thronie's platform, 8 turns remain.

...Should I release a "For Morgan, there's No Place Like a Stage" to sorta 1-up "Severa's Apocalypse"?

[Dumb gag in songs, but No Place Like a Stage = Yuuya's theme, Apocalypse of Destiny = Yui's theme, and Yuuya > Yui]

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Is there an optimum asset/flaw when pairing the Avatar with Lucina, either for their pair up or for Morgan's stats?

Depends on Lucina's mother, if it's Maribelle, Magic Asset.

Sumia? Comes down to Speed stack [+9 on Morgan, which is really nice] or Skill.

Olivia is basically the same as Sumia.

...Not sure on Sully, but probably SKL with her.

In all cases, DEF is probably your choice flaw, otherwise LCK.

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I was thinking of putting a Staffbot with Hex and Anathema next to Thronie so that Libra!Owain paired to Sumia!Lucina can get 99% Hit. Is there any reason why this strategy wouldn't work?

The alternative is making Lucina a hard lead with Ricken!Laurent, which works, but I don't really have anything good to do with Owain if I do that.

Edited by isetrh

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