PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Knightmare]

I have never really liked bow build due to them being useless in melee (when they get attacked) but then I thought maybe I could make Owain into a good Sniper but wanted advise on who I should pair Lissa with, Stahl or Avatar (+speed -luck...... I think....)

If I went Stahl!Lissa I think my skills would be

Reneweal (Lissa)

Astra (Stahl)

Counter

Hit +20

Bowfaire

If i went Avatar!Lissa many options would obviously open up but I was thinking something like

Reneweal (Lissa) or Galeforce but if inherit Galeforce then Reneweal will have to come from Avatar because it's such a pain to level up to unless wait till can buy rescue staffs which is too close to end of game for my liking

Counter or Veteran (Avatar)

Counter (if not inherited from avatar)

Armsthrift

Ignis

Hit +20 or Bowfaire

Either way I would be using a Forged Blessed Bow (with Armsthrift I wouldn't have to worry about buying and reforging) with this and Reneweal he would heal back a lot of health on next turn making up loss from counter unless he gets attacked too much on enemies turn, which tend to happen to archers for some reason enemies always go after them and healer first........

Is there a better father or better skills I should take instead?

I am playing on hard, all advise appriciated xD

[Czar_Yoshi]

Counter takes a little while to reach, by the time you reach it it'll be useless because everything will either be missing you or doing nothing, and once you've gone through 15 levels of Warrior you won't want to leave because Warrior is a much better in-game non-GF bow using class than Sniper.

You can buy Rescue Staves before Owain is recruitable. If that's too close to the end of the game for your tastes, you might want to look into a 1st gen Bow user.

As long as you play smart, kill as much stuff as possible on player phase and stay in control of what's hitting you on enemy phase, a Bow user won't be in any more danger for taking damage there than any other unit. But consider this: if you have a melee weapon and kill the enemy who comes to fight you, that space where they were standing is now open and another enemy can come in to fight you. This will continue until you miss a kill, run out of enemies, or die. Since being able to counterattack doesn't reduce the damage you take, the best way to protect yourself on enemy phase is by not fighting anything. Bows do this automatically- you'll never face more than 4 one-range attacks in one turn, and if you're fighting smartly (in formation) you can have two or more of your facings blocked off by ally units.

So are you really worried about your Snipers dying because they're unable to face enough enemies? Or are you worried that once they're invincible, you won't be able to throw them out into the middle of a pack of enemies alone and let them soak up exp? Because the latter isn't the point of Snipers.

If you want a good Bow user ingame anyway, Virion has good availability and is in time to paste the myriad of Plegian Wyverns, and Chrom!Cynthia has an easy Galeforce inheritance along with Archer (GF is the best way to make use of Snipers' offensive capabilities, since they can use their high offense to kill a high-priority target at 3 range and then retreat to formation and equip a more common/cheap weapon).

[Knightmare]

They'll be missing even in hard?

Rescue staffs can be got before Owain? Huh? You can get Owain as soon as children become available but there isn't any shops with rescue staves till around chapter 20 I think it was?

I tend to have my units spread out to take out as many enemies as fast as possible guess that's my problem, and time uses deal with enemies better I guess.... Times are just OP in this game aren't they?

Ok I'll go Chrom!Cynthia for bow user then thanks for your advise again

[Czar_Yoshi]

Rescue is buyable in Cht.12 and Hard is pretty easy.

[JediZelda]

As for the Libra!Inigo vs. Fred!Inigo thing, there's a few major differences:

- Libra!Inigo has 2 more speed than Fred!Inigo, which makes a difference in classes with mid-low speed. In this instance, Fred!Inigo & Libra!Inigo @Berserker both hit the 69 Speed threshold for Helswath Berserkers with Noire @Sniper (Fred!Inigo hits 69 Spd, Libra!Inigo hits 71). BUT, if Inigo @Hero, then Fred!Inigo only hits 67 Speed, while Libra!Inigo hits 69.

- Vengeance vs. Luna, Vengeance results in overall higher damage output but requires some setup & calculations. This is mostly personal preference.

- Since Noire @ Sniper needs a +Spd Pair Up to hit 69 Spd, the only relevant class Fred!Inigo has over Libra!Inigo is Paladin. Note that Fred!Inigo only hits 65 Speed as a Paladin though.

In that case, I'll stick with Libra!Inigo. I've done Frederick!Inigo before, I'll try something different since I'm already going with several other past pairings.

Still need to make up my mind already on a few things, but for now the pairings looks like this:

+Mag-Def FeMU @ Dark Flier (GF/Ignis/Luna/Tomefaire/LB)

Ricken!Owain @ Sage (GF/Luna/Aggressor/Tomefaire/LB)

Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper (GF/Aether/Luna/Dual Strike +/LB)

Ricken!Owain!Morgan @ Sage (GF/Ignis/Aggressor/Tomefaire/LB)

Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier (GF/Aether/Luna/Tomefaire/LB)

Lon'qu!Brady @ Sage (GF/Luna/Aggressor/Tomefaire/LB)

Gaius!Kjelle @ Paladin (GF/Luna/Astra/Swordfaire or Lancefaire/LB)

Henry!Gerome @ Berserker (Axefaire/Hex/Anathema/Aggressor/LB)

(May switch Gerome and Yarne around)

Virion!Severa @ Wyvern Lord (GF/Vengeance/Lancefaire/All Stats +2/LB)

Stahl!Yarne @ Berserker (Axefaire/Hit+20/Aggressor/LB/All Stats +2)

Gregor!Noire @ Sniper (Bowfaire/Anathema/Luna/Astra/LB) or (Bowfaire/Anathema/Vengeance/Armsthrift/LB)

Libra!Inigo @ Berserker (GF/Vengeance/Aggressor/Axefaire/LB)

I'll have to dabble with both Noire set ups and see which I Iike better.

Frederick!Nah x Vaike!Laurent - Benched. I want the supports for the log.

One of these days I'll figure out how to do the Spoiler tag. Any other suggestions or glaring flaws to point out?

***Edited to change Lucina's Bowfaire to Dual Strike +, Hex for Gerome and All Stats +2 for Yarne***

Edited May 12, 2015 by JediZelda

[burgerkong]

Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper (GF/Aether/Luna/Bowfaire/LB)

Ricken!Owain!Morgan @ Sage (GF/Ignis/Aggressor/Tomefaire/LB)

Lucina wants DS+. 100% DS is great for consistency, and with Ricken!Owain!Morgan in the back with Agg+TF, you're basically guaranteed kills while Lucina is in the front.

You'll want to replace Aether for consistency, but replacing BF is an option too if you really wanna procstack (though her damage in the back role will be somewhat lacking).

Gaius!Kjelle @ Paladin (GF/Luna/Astra/Swordfaire or Lancefaire/LB)

Henry!Gerome @ Berserker (Axefaire/Hex or Dual Support +/Anathema/Aggressor/LB)

(May switch Gerome and Yarne around)

Virion!Severa @ Wyvern Lord (GF/Vengeance/Lancefaire/All Stats +2/LB)

Stahl!Yarne @ Berserker (Axefaire/Hit+20/Aggressor/LB/?) All Stats +2 maybe?

Gregor!Noire @ Sniper (Bowfaire/Anathema/Luna/Astra/LB) or (Bowfaire/Anathema/Vengeance/Armsthrift/LB)

Libra!Inigo @ Berserker (GF/Vengeance/Aggressor/Axefaire/LB)

I'll have to dabble with both Noire set ups and see which I Iike better.

Gerome will want Hex, and Yarne would just use AS+2. Hex & Anathema will push Gerome up to 243 hit, which grants 100% Hit on Anna amongst others, while Yarne just runs AS+2 for lack of anything better.

Kjelle & Severa both have the same Skill thanks to Severa's AS+2, so the only difference is that whichever pairing has Yarne will have 1% more DS chance, while Gerome grants a massive (but unnecessary) +25 Hit.

As for Noire, go ahead and dabble. I like the Vengeance set simply because it allows for Double Bow shenanigans that she wouldn't otherwise get with Gaius as her father for instance, but it's really personal preference.

One of these days I'll figure out how to do the Spoiler tag. Any other suggestions or glaring flaws to point out?

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=legends&do=bbcode

But looks good, you'll breeze through Apotheosis barring any terrible misplays :P

[Czar_Yoshi]

You'll want to replace Aether for consistency, but replacing BF is an option too if you really wanna procstack (though her damage in the back role will be somewhat lacking).

Assuming Lucina takes 2 battles in the front and 1 in the back per turn and is always using braves, Aether still provides a greater increase in total average damage than Bowfaire (even though it can't proc in the back). It's always worth it to use Aether over a Faire unless Lucina is hard supporting a VV Avatar for a challenge run.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[burgerkong]

Assuming Lucina takes 2 battles in the front and 1 in the back per turn and is always using braves, Aether still provides a greater increase in total average damage than Bowfaire (even though it can't proc in the back). It's always worth it to use Aether over a Faire unless Lucina is hard supporting a VV Avatar for a challenge run.

Oh does it? I didn't know that :\

Good to know then, sorry for the misinformation.

I'm currently running a MU(+Mag)!Lucina @Dark Flier x Virion!Laurent @Sage, and according to my calcs nothing in S.Apo survives them in spite of Lucina failing to double Anna and the Nightmare Snipers, which is pretty ludicrous.

So I'm just running TF & Deliverer (or Armsthrift if I'm lazy) in place of Luna-Aether procstack.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Two battles in front and one in the back gives 8 front attacks and 8 back attacks (assuming doubling). Bowfaire adds 5 damage for all 16 of those hits- +80 damage total.

To beat that over just 8 (half) of the hits, you need a damage increase of 10 or more. And since it's been demonstrated multiple times (when comparing Aether to Agg for Morgan gender debates) that Aether is a 11~13 point increase...

[Vascela]

If you've gone above and beyond and actually calculated that tomefaire does what it needs to do as a skill slot, then there really is no point into throwing Aether inside unless you like it.

[JediZelda]

Lucina wants DS+. 100% DS is great for consistency, and with Ricken!Owain!Morgan in the back with Agg+TF, you're basically guaranteed kills while Lucina is in the front.

You'll want to replace Aether for consistency, but replacing BF is an option too if you really wanna procstack (though her damage in the back role will be somewhat lacking.

I knew I was forgetting something with Lucina. I like the idea of proc stacking (it was considered a waste of a skill slot when I first played the game) so I replaced Bowfaire with Dual Strike +.

Gerome will want Hex, and Yarne would just use AS+2. Hex & Anathema will push Gerome up to 243 hit, which grants 100% Hit on Anna amongst others, while Yarne just runs AS+2 for lack of anything better.

Kjelle & Severa both have the same Skill thanks to Severa's AS+2, so the only difference is that whichever pairing has Yarne will have 1% more DS chance, while Gerome grants a massive (but unnecessary) +25 Hit.

Okay, added Hex to Gerome and All Stats +2 to Yarne. In all honesty, the main reason I want Yarne+Severa and Gerome+ Kjelle is because I don't have either S support in the log book. I do have Yarne+Kjelle from when I paired the kids randomly, but no Gerome+Severa so if I switched it wouldn't be a total repeat.

As for Noire, go ahead and dabble. I like the Vengeance set simply because it allows for Double Bow shenanigans that she wouldn't otherwise get with Gaius as her father for instance, but it's really personal preference.

You know, I never thought about that. If I'm going to the trouble of having a Gregor!Noire, I may as well have her do something Gaius!Noire can't. I'll try the Vengeance build.

But looks good, you'll breeze through Apotheosis barring any terrible misplays :P

Yeah, I like Fire Emblem games, but I wanted help on strong pairings because I'm no Robin :P A big thank to you to those in this thread who gave advice and feedback.

[burgerkong]

So, this thread has been inactive for a while, and I've been sitting bored out of my mind at my current place of work (menial scanning & faxing for a student summer job).

I decided to do an RNG pairing run for theorycrafting just for fun. I'm looking for feedback on class selection & child pairing suggestions based on these pairings :)

I decided to make things easier for myself (at least for this first attempt) and have Male Avatar marry Sumia!Lucina, meaning Sumia!Lucina & Chrom!Cynthia are already set in stone.

My RNG'd pairings ended up looking like this:

• Chrom X Sumia
• MU X Lucina
• Cherche X Donnel
• Panne X Gaius
• Tharja X Vaike
• Cordelia X Kellam
• Nowi X Frederick
• Maribelle X Lon'qu
• Sully X Virion
• Miriel X Stahl
• Olivia X Ricken
• Lissa X Gregor

Unused: Henry, Libra

Basically I just RNG'd the child order excluding Lucina, Cynthia, & Morgan, then RNG'd their fathers one by one. And it wound up to be spectacularly terrible imo :P

Note that MU's Asset is still up in the air as well. I'd be looking for around ~6 pairings assuming that Chrom x Sumia will be used in Apotheosis.

I already have some ideas of class selection & pairings in mind, but looking for some suggestions! And to get this thread theorycrafting again :)

Edited May 20, 2015 by burgerkong

[Czar_Yoshi]

Quickly looking over, Ricken!Inigo and Lon'qu!Brady will perform well so two of your Galeboys are solid. On the female side you've got Noire as a very strong AT Double Bow user with decent Spd and no GF, so if you pair the Galeboys with her and Morgan you'll have a team of 4 pairs. Cynthia is also around, and you've got a decently strong Yarne who can support her (or support Morgan so Cynthia can have Inigo, maybe). Yarne's SF Assassin will be strong and a possible 100% DS candidate, and his Berserker is still good. Since you want at least one more, Severa should be serviceable, hitting 69 Spd as a Dark Flier with a Dread Fighter support and no All+2 (she needs All+2 to hit it with a Sage support, which is a testament to Kellam's slowness), and having Luna/Tomefaire to back it up. She does have room for All+2 if you want it, though. Marrying her, your best bet is Laurent, who still makes a good Sage with Stahl on him. If you want to go DF instead, he's got a neutral Str mod and both Swordfaire and Axefaire, so he won't smell at it too badly.

I... Don't really want to use more than that, unless you were to bring DF Cordelia and Sage Kellam in as a parent pair (they'll be stronger than any of the remaining children, and actually stronger than Severa too (DF 69 Spd with no All+2 and a Sage support)...). You're out of Galegirls and the only Galeboy left is Owain, who has no proc and would be pretty weak. Maybe he could make something work with GK Nah... Maybe... Nope, she's got no physical Faires.

[Alastor15243]

Hey, if Kellam had to be used as a father for a 2nd gen, where would you personally put him, Czar? he seems like one of those units it's just impossible to justify using for anyone, because he only has useful skills for units that would be crippled by his mods, and no useful skills for hard supports who wouldn't be.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Probably Owain. Lissa is already so slow that Sage Owain with a DF support and no All+2 won't change Spd brackets because of it, and he at least gets his Luna out of the deal. Kellam doesn't have a negative Mag mod wither so Owain isn't hurt by that.

Laurent and Yarne don't mind him too much, but he also has nothing for them except DG+, which is rather dubious in utility.

[burgerkong]

Quickly looking over, Ricken!Inigo and Lon'qu!Brady will perform well so two of your Galeboys are solid. On the female side you've got Noire as a very strong AT Double Bow user with decent Spd and no GF, so if you pair the Galeboys with her and Morgan you'll have a team of 4 pairs. Cynthia is also around, and you've got a decently strong Yarne who can support her (or support Morgan so Cynthia can have Inigo, maybe). Yarne's SF Assassin will be strong and a possible 100% DS candidate, and his Berserker is still good. Since you want at least one more, Severa should be serviceable, hitting 69 Spd as a Dark Flier with a Dread Fighter support and no All+2 (she needs All+2 to hit it with a Sage support, which is a testament to Kellam's slowness), and having Luna/Tomefaire to back it up. She does have room for All+2 if you want it, though. Marrying her, your best bet is Laurent, who still makes a good Sage with Stahl on him. If you want to go DF instead, he's got a neutral Str mod and both Swordfaire and Axefaire, so he won't smell at it too badly.

I... Don't really want to use more than that, unless you were to bring DF Cordelia and Sage Kellam in as a parent pair (they'll be stronger than any of the remaining children, and actually stronger than Severa too (DF 69 Spd with no All+2 and a Sage support)...). You're out of Galegirls and the only Galeboy left is Owain, who has no proc and would be pretty weak. Maybe he could make something work with GK Nah... Maybe... Nope, she's got no physical Faires.

Interesting. My pairings wound up being:

PAIR 1

Sumia @Dark Flier [Galeforce | Tomefaire | Luna | AS+2]

Chrom @Bow Knight [Dual Strike+ | Aggressor | Bowfaire | Hit+20]

• 100% DS, 75 Speed

PAIR 2

Sumia!Lucina @Dark Flier [Galeforce | Dual Strike+ | Luna | Aether]

Avatar(+Mag) @Sage [Aggressor | Tomefaire | Hit+20 | Anathema]

• 100% DS, 69 Speed

PAIR 3

Sumia!Lucina!Morgan @Valkyrie [Galeforce | Tomefaire | Ignis | Aether]

Lon’qu!Brady @Sage [Galeforce | Aggressor | Tomefaire | Luna]

• 75 Speed both ways

PAIR 4

Chrom!Cynthia @Dark Flier [Galeforce | Tomefaire | Luna | Aether]

Stahl!Laurent @Sage [Aggressor | Tomefaire | Hit+20 | Anathema]

PAIR 5

Kellam!Severa @Falcon Knight [Galeforce | Lancefaire | Luna | Hex]

Gregor!Owain @Berserker [Dual Support+ | Aggressor | Axefaire | AS+2] *yep, no Galeforce

• 75 Speed

PAIR 6

Vaike!Noire @Sniper [AS+2 | Bowfaire | Luna | Armsthrift]

Ricken!Inigo @Sage [Galeforce | Aggressor | Tomefaire | Luna]

• 69 Speed both ways

PAIR 7

Virion!Kjelle @Sniper [AS+2 | Luna | Astra | Bowfaire]

Gaius!Yarne @Assassin [AS+2 | Aggressor | Swordfaire | Lancebreaker / Str+2]

• 100% DS, 75 Speed

The Kjelle X Yarne thing is pretty gimmicky as a non-GF 100% DS pairing. Your pairings are probably more efficient, especially since I'm incorporating a non-GF Owain :P

Edited May 21, 2015 by burgerkong

[Ownagepuffs]

Probably Owain. Lissa is already so slow that Sage Owain with a DF support and no All+2 won't change Spd brackets because of it, and he at least gets his Luna out of the deal. Kellam doesn't have a negative Mag mod wither so Owain isn't hurt by that.

Laurent and Yarne don't mind him too much, but he also has nothing for them except DG+, which is rather dubious in utility.

Kellam!Inigo is also not too shabby in a vacuum.

[burgerkong]

Kellam!Inigo is also not too shabby in a vacuum.

This. That +0 Spd mod is pretty sad, but he can still run generic Maleforce Sage (Galeforce, Agg, TF, Luna) and hit 69 Speed with a Dark Flier / Valk Pair Up, or Swordfaire Assassin if he's going physical.

Also, just as a reminder, do -breakers work as a Support? I feel like I've asked this before, but I don't remember and haven't really used any breakers on my units since.

Edited May 21, 2015 by burgerkong

[Ownagepuffs]

Yes breakers work from the back. Swordbreaker Zerkers are pretty awesome.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Breakers give you extra Hit in the back but they don't do anything to Avo.

Kellam!Inigo is also not too shabby in a vacuum.

Inigo tends to turn out better than Owain in general due to having +2/1 Skl/Spd on him and a wider selection of good dads so he's arguably got more to lose. Barring Robin, Owain's Spd can never be over +1 with a proc, so he's got a bit less to lose.

[Alastor15243]

Breakers give you extra Hit in the back but they don't do anything to Avo.

Inigo tends to turn out better than Owain in general due to having +2/1 Skl/Spd on him and a wider selection of good dads so he's arguably got more to lose. Barring Robin, Owain's Spd can never be over +1 with a proc, so he's got a bit less to lose.

Who else can Ricken be used for though? I suppose that's the real question, is there any good reason to NOT use Ricken for Owain besides using him for Inigo or Laurent? Are there any others?

[Vascela]

I put Ricken with Severa; Ricken can do a lot of obscure fathering depending on the conditions. And it's not like his mods lock him out of physical. With dragonskin and pavgis littered in Apo, the mod difference is heavily skewed.

edit: I think Yoshi's also been successful with Ricken!Gerome

Edited May 21, 2015 by Vascela

[Czar_Yoshi]

The main reason I don't care for Ricken!Owain is that he's got a cringe-worthy +0/1 Skl/Spd mod spread. But that's mostly Lissa's fault and Ricken just makes it more obvious- he's still a good option for Owain.

Stahl!Owain is a very similar option to Ricken!Owain that trades 3 Mag for 3 Str and has slightly better mods elsewhere, so there is a bit of competition there for a more balanced Owain.

Ricken!Gerome has +3/3 Str/Mag mods and everything he needs to run Tomefaire Sage, Bowfaire Warrior and Bowfaire Bow Knight, which is about as complete of a support selection as you could ask for for a +5 Spd Morgan (the only thing he's missing is Swordfaire for Paladin).

Ricken is definitely Severa's best magical option. She only misses one Spd threshold over Virion!Severa (with a Dread Fighter support, Ricken needs All+2 to hit 75 and Virion doesn't), but gets Luna as an alternate proc option, has +2 Mag and has Lancefaire Paladin as a backup class (Stahl!Severa is the only other one who can run Paladin, and she has the same Spd as Ricken). However, she also comes with the slight problem of being almost totally eclipsed by Chrom!Cynthia, who has better Spd/Skl (enough for 75 Spd Paladin/Sniper with a +3 support and no All+2), Aether, and the same DF/Sniper/Paladin ending class set. All Severa really has on her is +1/1 Str/Mag (and Vengeance, which to you probably would be worth it).

[Ownagepuffs]

I've been raving about Ricken!Inigo for like ever. Ricken has A LOT of good kids. His offensive mods and class set are bomb. Ricken!Gerome is something I've also advocated in the past.

[Alastor15243]

PAIR 7

Virion!Kjelle @Sniper [AS+2 | Luna | Astra | Bowfaire]

Gaius!Yarne @Assassin [AS+2 | Aggressor | Swordfaire | Lancebreaker / Str+2]

• 100% DS, 75 Speed

The Kjelle X Yarne thing is pretty gimmicky as a non-GF 100% DS pairing. Your pairings are probably more efficient, especially since I'm incorporating a non-GF Owain :P

Why on earth would you do that instead of Gaius!Kjelle and Virion!Yarne? WHY? Have Gaius!Kjelle be the assassin and Virion!Yarne be the sniper and you still get 100% DS and 75 speed!

Edited May 21, 2015 by Alastor15243