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Hey friends, me again, coming back with a long post of stuff this time. I'm going to spoiler it because it's going to take up a lot of space.

1. Which challenge in apotheosis is harder?

a. Full LB, no brave weapons

b. Full brave weapons, no LB

2. Which one of these combinations should I use?

a. Lon'qu x Miriel, Gregor x Maribelle

b. Gregor x Miriel, Lon'qu x Maribelle

I feel like they both accomplish the same things and either way both Brady and Laurent are going to be badasses

3a. What's your guys' opinion on these pairings?

Chrom x Sumia - Sniper!Lucina and Dark Flier/Sniper!Cynthia

Avatar x Say'ri (I'd prefer to not change this one, I personally don't care for third gen Morgan) - Valkyrie/Dark Flier/Wyvern/Paladin!Morgan

Ricken x Lissa - Sage!Owain

Libra x Olivia - Dread Fighter!Inigo

Gaius x Sully - Wyvern!Kjelle

Stahl x Cordelia - Hero!Severa

Henry x Cherche - Berserker!Gerome

Virion x Panne - Berserker!Yarne

Vaike x Nowi - Hero!Nah

Donnel x Tharja - Dark Flier/Sniper!Noire

Lon'qu/Gregor x Miriel/Maribelle - Sage!Laurent and Dread Fighter/Sage!Brady

3b. Pairing the second gen

Pretty solid:

Sniper!Lucina x Berserker!Yarne

Wyvern!Kjelle x Berserker!Gerome

Sage!Owain x Dark Flier/Sniper!Cynthia

Sage!Laurent x Dark Flier/Sniper!Noire

Unsure:

Hero!Nah x Dread Fighter/Sage!Brady

Dread Fighter!Inigo x Whatever!Morgan

Then for Apo Severa would tag along with Cordelia. I'm quite unsure about these pairings for the second gen, but I think my first gen is pretty good. Anyway, usual requests. Class help, pairing help, everything. Thank you again!

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How viable is Vaike!Gerome with a triple breaker set to replace his lack of +Hit skills? I saw it in Airship's run after revisiting it and it piqued my curiosity.

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How viable is Vaike!Gerome with a triple breaker set to replace his lack of +Hit skills? I saw it in Airship's run after revisiting it and it piqued my curiosity.

I'd really only do that if you're trying to marry Gerome, because otherwise, you're giving up a faire and AS+2, 7 strength worth of skills, for those two extra breakers to improve your accuracy, which renders Vaike's +3 strength mod moot.

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Oh, I meant from a non dlc perspective. Should've specified. I like doing no dlc min maxing.

Henry!Gerome is usually Hex/Anathema/Axefaire/DSu+/Str +2

Vaike!Gerome would be Axebreaker/Lancebreaker/Swordbreaker/Axefaire/Str +2

Considering Zerks already WTA Lances, he could probably use tomebreaker or DSu+ in place of Lancebreaker. Though if he's hitting Anna he'd probably want to keep Lancebreaker on. Just a passing though. Obviously the unfortunate part is losing hexathema's bonus for the lead.

Hey friends, me again, coming back with a long post of stuff this time. I'm going to spoiler it because it's going to take up a lot of space.

1. Which challenge in apotheosis is harder?

a. Full LB, no brave weapons

b. Full brave weapons, no LB

2. Which one of these combinations should I use?

a. Lon'qu x Miriel, Gregor x Maribelle

b. Gregor x Miriel, Lon'qu x Maribelle

I feel like they both accomplish the same things and either way both Brady and Laurent are going to be badasses

3a. What's your guys' opinion on these pairings?

Chrom x Sumia - Sniper!Lucina and Dark Flier/Sniper!Cynthia

Avatar x Say'ri (I'd prefer to not change this one, I personally don't care for third gen Morgan) - Valkyrie/Dark Flier/Wyvern/Paladin!Morgan

Ricken x Lissa - Sage!Owain

Libra x Olivia - Dread Fighter!Inigo

Gaius x Sully - Wyvern!Kjelle

Stahl x Cordelia - Hero!Severa

Henry x Cherche - Berserker!Gerome

Virion x Panne - Berserker!Yarne

Vaike x Nowi - Hero!Nah

Donnel x Tharja - Dark Flier/Sniper!Noire

Lon'qu/Gregor x Miriel/Maribelle - Sage!Laurent and Dread Fighter/Sage!Brady

3b. Pairing the second gen

Pretty solid:

Sniper!Lucina x Berserker!Yarne

Wyvern!Kjelle x Berserker!Gerome

Sage!Owain x Dark Flier/Sniper!Cynthia

Sage!Laurent x Dark Flier/Sniper!Noire

Unsure:

Hero!Nah x Dread Fighter/Sage!Brady

Dread Fighter!Inigo x Whatever!Morgan

Then for Apo Severa would tag along with Cordelia. I'm quite unsure about these pairings for the second gen, but I think my first gen is pretty good. Anyway, usual requests. Class help, pairing help, everything. Thank you again!

1) Full LB no braves is harder because you get hit much more often.

2) Gregor/Miriel + LQ/Mary

3a). The pairings are fine. Noire prob wants to be Sniper more than Dark Flier. Stahl!Severa would rather rock a bow using class. Assassin's a nice pick. As is Bow Knight. Can't really go wrong with Sniper either.

3b). If you're fine with an A support, then do Avatar x Severa at A and make Cordelia a Hex/Anathema staffbot. Everything else is alright.

Edited by Ownagepuffs

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Hexnathema is useful not for just Gerome and his partner, but also anyone else who is fighting for that combat tile (be it an unconfirmed KO or even just the range of 3 tiles). If the only thing concerned you was Gerome's hit rate, then it would be fine. You might need to check on forests for Snipers (or if you aren't running tomebreaker, perhaps the stairs). Mainly weighing not having another hexnathema nearby as the opportunity cost (but it would be bad play to only use one unit with hexnathema).

If lead hit is more important, then lancebreaker getting sacked for DuSu+ isn't off the table. That's really only appealing to Anna. I think the bigger question isn't the viability of Breakers over Hexnathema, but rather how many more hexnathema users do you plan on using? It's one thing to be me and run hexnathema on 15 units. It's another to say that only 2 or 3 have it.

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I know of the additional benefits. This was just with regards to Gerome's hit only. Vaike!Gerome rocking 2 breakers + DSu+ for whatever his lead is fighting seems like a pretty good choice. Basically, if Vaike!Gerome can make a comeback, that would allow for more flexible distribution of Stahl, Henry, and Virion. Just a thought.

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Hey friends, me again, coming back with a long post of stuff this time. I'm going to spoiler it because it's going to take up a lot of space.

1. Which challenge in apotheosis is harder?

a. Full LB, no brave weapons

b. Full brave weapons, no LB

2. Which one of these combinations should I use?

a. Lon'qu x Miriel, Gregor x Maribelle

b. Gregor x Miriel, Lon'qu x Maribelle

I feel like they both accomplish the same things and either way both Brady and Laurent are going to be badasses

3a. What's your guys' opinion on these pairings?

Chrom x Sumia - Sniper!Lucina and Dark Flier/Sniper!Cynthia

Avatar x Say'ri (I'd prefer to not change this one, I personally don't care for third gen Morgan) - Valkyrie/Dark Flier/Wyvern/Paladin!Morgan

Ricken x Lissa - Sage!Owain

Libra x Olivia - Dread Fighter!Inigo

Gaius x Sully - Wyvern!Kjelle

Stahl x Cordelia - Hero!Severa

Henry x Cherche - Berserker!Gerome

Virion x Panne - Berserker!Yarne

Vaike x Nowi - Hero!Nah

Donnel x Tharja - Dark Flier/Sniper!Noire

Lon'qu/Gregor x Miriel/Maribelle - Sage!Laurent and Dread Fighter/Sage!Brady

3b. Pairing the second gen

Pretty solid:

Sniper!Lucina x Berserker!Yarne

Wyvern!Kjelle x Berserker!Gerome

Sage!Owain x Dark Flier/Sniper!Cynthia

Sage!Laurent x Dark Flier/Sniper!Noire

Unsure:

Hero!Nah x Dread Fighter/Sage!Brady

Dread Fighter!Inigo x Whatever!Morgan

Then for Apo Severa would tag along with Cordelia. I'm quite unsure about these pairings for the second gen, but I think my first gen is pretty good. Anyway, usual requests. Class help, pairing help, everything. Thank you again!

Mostly good. Stahl!Severa is usually a Sniper or Paladin, but should work fine as a Hero (she's got everything she needs for it, just Vaike and Lon'qu make better Hero Severas so Stahl doesn't do that much). As previously mentioned Noire won't make a very nice DF thanks to having an extreme Spd deficit (with a Sage support, she needs All+2 to hit 69) and no Tomefaire, but it might work if you're short on magical units.

If you want Morgan to marry a Dread Fighter, consider Bride (with Ignis). Stat caps will be fairly low all around, but you'll be able to take on pretty much any combination of Def, Res and PavGis with impunity.

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If you're not doing brave weapons, then one thing I highly recommend is a solid anti-thronie unit. Thronie is one of the trickiest-to-kill enemies in apotheosis, and it's extremely handy to have somebody who can use a ranged magical weapon (bolt axes or levin swords) to pierce both Thronie's aegis and his high defense. If you're set on that team there, one of the mage boys (one fast enough to reach 69 speed) as a Bolt Axe-wielding dread fighter is your best bet, though Gaius!Noire is probably the best non-morgan option in the game since she can use dark knight while still reaching 69 speed and thus have superior movement and tome access for pavise enemies, she has access to luna, astra and swordfaire, and being a girl she can use all of these skills without compromising aggressor, since that's in the back on her husband, preferably a sage Laurent. I notice you're using Gaius!Kjelle. That's a great pairing too, and if you're going to do something with her that Donnel!Kjelle can't do, then definitely keep that pairing, but just bear in mind that you'll need a replacement for Gaius!Noire's anti-thronie niche. It's not just one enemy, it's at least five berserkers in the last two waves who have high defense and aegis+.

Will keep this in mind, though im not yet 100% set on these pairings, which is why i asked if there was anything anyone would have recommended to switching around for possibly better results. Though of course if nobody sees a need to speak up, these will most likely be the pairings i will go with then.

Also, still hoping for some advice on the children aswell, based on the pairings i posted or any recommendations from others naturally.

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Selfish hit that isn't Hit Rate +20 just doesn't compete with auras for Apo.

Why not? If you know what you're doing, and pick his lead's battles accordingly, you could possibly get even more milage than Hit +20. It's limited but practical effectiveness. You could tailor him to fight W4 Zerker with just DSu+ + Axebreaker or something. We're also still under the assumption that like 10 units are still using He/An as well (some with Demoiselle). Gregor giving him Bowbreaker access over Vaike could actually mean something too, even if Gregor has business elsewhere. It's worth looking into it you want to explore non Hit +20 alternatives, since Gerome can't get Hit +20 Zerker without Robin and Henry has too many good pairings for Gerome to hold a monopoly on him.

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Will keep this in mind, though im not yet 100% set on these pairings, which is why i asked if there was anything anyone would have recommended to switching around for possibly better results. Though of course if nobody sees a need to speak up, these will most likely be the pairings i will go with then.

Also, still hoping for some advice on the children aswell, based on the pairings i posted or any recommendations from others naturally.

Alright, I'll give you my two cents:

Time to hit this topic once more.

After some study and thinking, these are somewhat the pairings i am thinking on:

Avatar x Cynthia What's your asset/flaw? I'm sure I told somebody that they should pair with cynthia because they had a magic asset, leaving Lucina free to be a 100% DS aether sniper with a berserker husband. If that's the case, go with this, but just be warned, if your run involves no grinding until apotheosis, Lucina and Avatar are a much better in-game team than Cynthia and Avatar, unless you get a paralogue that lets you recruit Cynthia right away. Tip regarding Cynthia: Beastkillers and galeforce make her much easier to train late in the valm arc and in her paralogue.

Chrom x Sumia Best pairing, moving on.

Lissa x Ricken I've never used him as anything but a dread fighter for aesthetic reasons, but he'd probably be best off as a sage instead unless you need the speed pairup bonus on his wife. Unless of course you decide to make him your anti-thronie unit, in which case Dread Fighter is best for him.

Sully x Gaius As I said, have a solid plan for this that makes the most out of her speed. Wyvern Lord is one good strategy for this. If you don't make the most out of her speed, Gaius!Noire will serve you much better in no-brave runs.

Miriel x Lonqu He can do VV, but for apotheosis that's not viable. Then again, Laurent has everything he needs to be a sage hard support for apotheosis, the most you can really do for him is give him a negligible damage boost with a higher mag father. But I still don't recommend this, as you're wasting Lon'qu's speed.

Maribelle x Libra I'd swap Libra and Lon'qu. Brady makes better use of Lon'qu's speed and becomes a somewhat viable anti-thronie unit if you make him trickster or dread fighter (DF's probably better), and one of the least useful magical parents does something slightly useful on Laurent by giving him a little better magic.

Panne x Virion Solid, will make him a devastating berserker. Highly recommend pairing him up with Lucina if I'm correct that you have a magical asset for your Avatar.

Cordelia x Vaike Great pairing, I highly recommend making her a general and pairing her up with a paladin (my personal favorite's Inigo). She'll hit like a goddamned truck and still hit 69 speed with AS+2.

Nowi x Henry I can't comment on this one, I don't like vengeance.

Tharja x Frederick I've never used Noire as a female hard support before, all I can say is that I, personally, would not do this.

Olivia x Stahl This'll be great if you don't need Stahl anywhere else. Again, I recommend pairing Inigo up with Severa for a devastating duo.

Cherche x Gregor Gerome could always be a berserker using Tantivy, but you have to be careful with that, make sure that pair is away from other units. Personally when I make him a berserker I give him Henry for the more reliable anathema.

Any changes i should still make or am i good to go? Anything i might have missed considering my goal?

Im still bit unsure about Maribelle x Libra, Cherche x Gregor and Tharja x Fred aswell.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Alright, I'll give you my two cents:

Thanks, this helped alot. And yeah, my Avatar's asset/flaw is +MAG -STR so very magical based Avatar, which should suit Cynthia best.

So based on the stuff you said, i could switch it up like this

Avatar x Cynthia

Chrom x Sumia

Lissa x Ricken

Sully x Gaius

Miriel x Libra

Maribelle x Lonqu

Panne x Virion

Cordelia x Vaike

Olivia x Stahl

Cherche x Henry

it feels like Henry would be better off with Cherche based on the things you said and i switched Libra and Lonqu up. My current problem is that so far ive always played Tharja x Gaius pairup but now i wanna try something different with the Sully x Gaius. Only problem is, im not sure how best take advantage of Tharja now, especially with the remaining husbands. Same thing with Nowi aswell.

Current child pairups would be Lucina x Yarne and Severa x Inigo. Still thinking my other options. Morgan of course needs to take advantage of that Aether somehow, that's for sure. But would she be better off with hard supporter or double galeforce?

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Mostly good. Stahl!Severa is usually a Sniper or Paladin, but should work fine as a Hero (she's got everything she needs for it, just Vaike and Lon'qu make better Hero Severas so Stahl doesn't do that much).

What are the criterias each class needs? Are the criterias based on the mods and skills or just one of the two?

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Thanks, this helped alot. And yeah, my Avatar's asset/flaw is +MAG -STR so very magical based Avatar, which should suit Cynthia best.

So based on the stuff you said, i could switch it up like this

Avatar x Cynthia

Chrom x Sumia

Lissa x Ricken

Sully x Gaius

Miriel x Libra

Maribelle x Lonqu

Panne x Virion

Cordelia x Vaike

Olivia x Stahl

Cherche x Henry

it feels like Henry would be better off with Cherche based on the things you said and i switched Libra and Lonqu up. My current problem is that so far ive always played Tharja x Gaius pairup but now i wanna try something different with the Sully x Gaius. Only problem is, im not sure how best take advantage of Tharja now, especially with the remaining husbands. Same thing with Nowi aswell.

Current child pairups would be Lucina x Yarne and Severa x Inigo. Still thinking my other options. Morgan of course needs to take advantage of that Aether somehow, that's for sure. But would she be better off with hard supporter or double galeforce?

One thing you can do to make a good Nah is give her Stahl and give Inigo Frederick. Frederick actually works quite well on Inigo because his speed is still at least neutral, he was never going to be that fast anyway, and he also, if you feel like it, has all of the skills necessary to 100% dodgetank the nightmare sniper (though it would render him largely useless for the rest of the map and frankly there are more practical ways to dispatch NS, namely just swarming him with your fastest units since he doesn't have counter). Nah, in turn, would have a fantastic excuse to occasionally go up front in no-brave runs if you choose to make her a sniper (as I said, lack of brave weapons makes it largely irrelevant who's up front damagewise unless your attacks are getting halved by aegis/pavise, so Nah needs a good reason to go up front rather than just being female. Longbows are such a reason, as is having more move than her husband).

Also, it's good that you chose to make Gerome a viable berserker, because you'll need two, one for Sniper Lucina, and one for Wyvern Lord Kjelle (it's necessary to make her fast enough to reach 75 speed with wyvern lord, and the strength boost is also a MASSIVE plus, it'll make Kjelle hit like a truck).

I'm not entirely sure what you should do with Noire, because I've never done anything but Gaius!Noire for apotheosis. As a hard support, she functions best if you give her a mage father due to that +3 mag, but the only one you have left is Kellam, if he even counts. What you could do is give Kellam to Laurent since he only goes from +5 to +4 magic and the speed penalty means nothing since he's never up front, and then give Libra to Noire so that she can run something like Sage with Mag+2, AS+2, LB, Luna and Tomefaire. If for some reason you decide to make your anti-thronie boy a trickster, it might be a good idea to pair her up with him so that she can use tomes on pavise-possessing physical enemies. I'd ask Czar_Yoshi though, as again, I've never done a hard support Noire. Also keep in mind that a hard support Noire and a male avatar means that you'll only have one galepair. Donnel!Noire isn't TERRIBLE, she's just really, really mediocre, so if it hurts your party to accomodate a hard support Noire, you might just wanna go with Donnel!Noire.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Why not? If you know what you're doing, and pick his lead's battles accordingly, you could possibly get even more milage than Hit +20. It's limited but practical effectiveness. You could tailor him to fight W4 Zerker with just DSu+ + Axebreaker or something. We're also still under the assumption that like 10 units are still using He/An as well (some with Demoiselle). Gregor giving him Bowbreaker access over Vaike could actually mean something too, even if Gregor has business elsewhere. It's worth looking into it you want to explore non Hit +20 alternatives, since Gerome can't get Hit +20 Zerker without Robin and Henry has too many good pairings for Gerome to hold a monopoly on him.

Your spending 3 skills for selfish hit rate. Of course breakers are better in the case where you "tailor" the unit to a specific enemy, but securing your hit with 3 skills is not as useful as securing your hit with 1 skill or securing the hit rate for the entire team with 2. It's not like Vaike!Gerome has the greatest skill pool to deal with, so, triple breaker can be used.

Another point you bring up is parent monopoly, a standard that is unique to the player. Who get's first dibs on spouses? For you Gerome might be higher/lower on the spectrum than Nah or Brady or whoever. If you actually made a personal hierarchy, then the issue with monopoly somewhat disappears.

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Hey Deitti, one thing it just occurred to me that you could do to handle the aegis berserkers is to make your Morgan a dark knight and then give her either Brady or Owain as a dread fighter partner. She'd hit 75 speed without the need of AS+2 and she'd pack just as much magical punch as Gaius!Noire, and she'd have aether and ignis! Her husband's dual strikes would be less powerful due to not being a hard support sage, but her husband would ALSO be a viable anti-thronie unit, so you'd be able to take down three aegis berserkers in one turn!

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Hey Deitti, one thing it just occurred to me that you could do to handle the aegis berserkers is to make your Morgan a dark knight and then give her either Brady or Owain as a dread fighter partner. She'd hit 75 speed without the need of AS+2 and she'd pack just as much magical punch as Gaius!Noire, and she'd have aether and ignis! Her husband's dual strikes would be less powerful due to not being a hard support sage, but her husband would ALSO be a viable anti-thronie unit, so you'd be able to take down three aegis berserkers in one turn!

Sounds pretty good, aswell as the Stahl and Fred switch.

I guess ill wait Czar_Yoshi's comment about Noire and if it requires alot of pair switching still before deciding whether i wanna go with hard support or just stick Tharja and Donnel together out of lack for better options.

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Sounds pretty good, aswell as the Stahl and Fred switch.

I guess ill wait Czar_Yoshi's comment about Noire and if it requires alot of pair switching still before deciding whether i wanna go with hard support or just stick Tharja and Donnel together out of lack for better options.

Yeah, that would be best, he'll know more about it than me.

Also, quick correction, with a dark knight partner, Ricken!Owain can't actually hit 69 speed without AS+2. You'll want to go with Lon'qu!Brady.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Your spending 3 skills for selfish hit rate. Of course breakers are better in the case where you "tailor" the unit to a specific enemy, but securing your hit with 3 skills is not as useful as securing your hit with 1 skill or securing the hit rate for the entire team with 2. It's not like Vaike!Gerome has the greatest skill pool to deal with, so, triple breaker can be used.

Another point you bring up is parent monopoly, a standard that is unique to the player. Who get's first dibs on spouses? For you Gerome might be higher/lower on the spectrum than Nah or Brady or whoever. If you actually made a personal hierarchy, then the issue with monopoly somewhat disappears.

I know how to math. I'm also not suggesting all 3 breakers, either (2 breakers and DSu+ could be enough, even). Considering that unless you're doing V/V, no unit is fighting every single enemy. In practice Vaike!Gerome's lead can pick their battles. It's about viability as an alternative, not whether or not it's better. It's not as good as Hit +20 or H/A, obviously. Second, the point of my post is the exact opposite of monopoly. If someone has other plans for Stahl, Virion, and/or Henry, then there's a possibility of Breaker Vaike!Gerome being a good alternative. Increasing good alternatives allows for more flexible team building.

Pardon my ignorance, but which of Henry's pairs are that much better than the support Gerome that he produces?

Not better, just other good alternatives if the player wants to use him elsewhere. There's Owain, Inigo, Yarne, Nah, Severa, and Cynthia.

Edited by Ownagepuffs

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Hmm, I'll admit, I was thinking he could be good for Owain. The problem is that he gives Gerome literally the two things he wants more than anything. It's tough to pass up such a good pair.

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Hmm, I'll admit, I was thinking he could be good for Owain. The problem is that he gives Gerome literally the two things he wants more than anything. It's tough to pass up such a good pair.

Yep, though it's definitely possible that you just don't use Gerome, in which case Henry could be used elsewhere.

If you're running 6 combat pairs (including Chrom), or 7 with another 1st gen pair, then you have 3 children not being used, in which case it's definitely possible for Gerome to just be ignored.

My current run is only 6 combat pairs, so Gerome (Kellam!Gerome), Owain (Vaike!Owain), and Nah (Libra!Nah) are not being fielded, which really let me optimize my other pairs.

So it's really dependent on your team composition, and any biases you may have for particular children :P

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Yeah I'm pretty sure it's been established that Vaike!Owain is really shitty. Vaike, while he has great physical stats, has a mod total of zero because he has hefty penalties to all of the stats Lissa has positive mods on, and all of his strengths coincide with all of Lissa's weaknesses, so the resulting stats are low and unbelievably meh. He also only gets two new advanced classes.

Edited by Alastor15243

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