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Another way to look at it is, a physical Vaike!Owain is pretty much just Vaike with Galeforce, trading -1 Str for +1 Spd.

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The only reason I could think of running Vaike!Owain is if one were to run a physical set maybe...?

Can't really blame Owain since his character is meant to be a physical-based unit, but that's just me.

There's basically no reason to run him, Stahl!Owain and even Fred!Owain do it much better.

I just did it for the hell of it since I've never run Vaike!Owain before, and it's not like I need to optimize him at all since he's on the bench most of the time.

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Avatar x Lucina > Chrom!Cynthia > Severa/Kjelle/other Cynthia > Sumia/Cordelia > everyone else

Chrom x Sumia/Maribelle/Olivia

Lissa x Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Sully x Gaius/Donnel

Miriel x Lon'qu/Ricken/Gregor/Libra

Sumia x Chrom/Henry

Maribelle x Chrom/Virion/Lon'qu/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Panne x Virion/Stahl/Gregor

Cordelia x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Lon'qu/Ricken

Nowi x Vaike/Stahl/Henry

Tharja x Fred/Vaike/Ricken/Gaius

Olivia x Chrom/Fred/Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Cherche x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Ricken/Gregor/Henry

Hey, but Yoshi, what are other options if MU is Female and she's married to Chrome (I did that on purpose)?

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Hey, but Yoshi, what are other options if MU is Female and she's married to Chrome (I did that on purpose)?

From what I can gather, Yarne > Laurent > Gerome > Brady/Inigo/Owain (roughly in that order I believe) > Chrom > Gangrel/Walhart/Yen'Fay/Priam > Anyone else. Some would argue that the inability to marry Lucina puts Chrom!Morgan at the very bottom, actually.

If she's already married to Chrom, He makes a good Apotheosis partner, you'll probably just want to drop one of the boys, probably Gerome or Laurent depending on whether swords or sorcery is the odd discipline out for your team.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Yep, though it's definitely possible that you just don't use Gerome, in which case Henry could be used elsewhere.

If you're running 6 combat pairs (including Chrom), or 7 with another 1st gen pair, then you have 3 children not being used, in which case it's definitely possible for Gerome to just be ignored.

My current run is only 6 combat pairs, so Gerome (Kellam!Gerome), Owain (Vaike!Owain), and Nah (Libra!Nah) are not being fielded, which really let me optimize my other pairs.

So it's really dependent on your team composition, and any biases you may have for particular children :P

Considering how potent a properly set up hard support Batman is, there's no reason to not use him, really. I just wanted to revisit Vaike!Gerome, as he's the product of a very old meta. But looking at him from a new angle might make him relevant again. I plan on doing this for more pairings but Vaike!Gerome stuck out to me.

Another thought: Hard support Sage Libra!Gerome with Hexathema. Gerome's innate magic mod of 0 makes this feasible.

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Considering how potent a properly set up hard support Batman is, there's no reason to not use him, really. I just wanted to revisit Vaike!Gerome, as he's the product of a very old meta. But looking at him from a new angle might make him relevant again. I plan on doing this for more pairings but Vaike!Gerome stuck out to me.

Another thought: Hard support Sage Libra!Gerome with Hexathema. Gerome's innate magic mod of 0 makes this feasible.

Yeah, that's true, but for people who don't want to run maximum number of combat pairs, or for people who've already given away all of Gerome's good fathers, it's certainly an option to simply ditch him to improve the overall quality of your other pairings.

And Libra!Gerome @Sage is usable, but he's pretty much a flat out worst Laurent :|

Hey, but Yoshi, what are other options if MU is Female and she's married to Chrome (I did that on purpose)?

I'm no Yoshi, but MU x Chrom is still great. MU's class will depend on her mods (listing them would help with builds :P), while Chrom will run a cookie cutter Support build as Bow Knight or Sniper (Dual Strike+ | Aggressor | Bowfaire | Hit+20).

Sumia will likely want to marry Henry, making Cynthia magically-inclined for a Dark Flier or Valkyrie build. Frederick is another option, but he's generally considered inferior due to his massive mod clash with Sumia, which kind of kills Cynthia's SPD mod.

From there, it's really up to you, Czar's listed pairings are all solid.

Edited by burgerkong

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Although im still waiting to see if Czar will want to comment on hard support Noire, im starting to think i might go with this setup that was suggested:

Avatar x Cynthia

Chrom x Sumia

Lissa x Ricken

Sully x Gaius

Miriel x Libra

Maribelle x Lonqu

Panne x Virion

Cordelia x Vaike

Olivia x Stahl

Cherche x Henry

Nowi x Stahl

Tharja x Donnel

One last thing on my mind is though, with these pairings i think the children would probably go like this

Lucina x Yarne

Inigo x Severa

Kjelle x Gerome

Morgan x Brady

but it came to my mind, which would work better for the last two pairs, Owain x Noire + Nah x Laurent or having one gale + support instead?

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Although im still waiting to see if Czar will want to comment on hard support Noire, im starting to think i might go with this setup that was suggested:

Avatar x Cynthia

Chrom x Sumia

Lissa x Ricken

Sully x Gaius

Miriel x Libra

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Panne x Virion

Cordelia x Vaike

Olivia x Stahl

Cherche x Henry

Nowi x Stahl

Tharja x Donnel

One last thing on my mind is though, with these pairings i think the children would probably go like this

Lucina x Yarne

Inigo x Severa

Kjelle x Gerome

Morgan x Brady

but it came to my mind, which would work better for the last two pairs, Owain x Noire + Nah x Laurent or having one gale + support instead?

It's a good list, but Stahl is listed twice, married to both Olivia & Nowi.

Honestly, assuming Stahl goes to Inigo, it might be better off to ditch Nah since pretty much all of her preferred fathers are gone (Vaike, Stahl, Henry, etc.).

A potential option would be to move Libra off Miriel --> Olivia to free up Stahl for Nowi, since Laurent can really take any father and still be good; Gregor is a popular one for flexibility, while Kellam will just preserve his Mag mod better.

In any case, 1 Gale + 1 hard Support is preferred. There's a lot more flexibility in having 2 actions per pair. So something like Owain x Nah & Noire x Laurent would probably be preferable in this scenario.

Edited by burgerkong

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What are the thoughts on Gaius!Cynthia?

I have been wanting to do something like this but I never heard anyone talk about it.

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What are the thoughts on Gaius!Cynthia?

I have been wanting to do something like this but I never heard anyone talk about it.

Mods are decent but it's a waste of the Pegasus class tree that Gaius can give to female children who don't already have it.

She has a really high Spd mod (+6) so it gives you more freedom to run different classes while still meeting certain thresholds (don't remember the specifics), but it's probably overkill in most cases and she doesn't really get much of value skills and classes wise.

Edited by Bovinian

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It's a good list, but Stahl is listed twice, married to both Olivia & Nowi.

Honestly, assuming Stahl goes to Inigo, it might be better off to ditch Nah since pretty much all of her preferred fathers are gone (Vaike, Stahl, Henry, etc.).

A potential option would be to move Libra off Miriel --> Olivia to free up Stahl for Nowi, since Laurent can really take any father and still be good; Gregor is a popular one for flexibility, while Kellam will just preserve his Mag mod better.

In any case, 1 Gale + 1 hard Support is preferred. There's a lot more flexibility in having 2 actions per pair. So something like Owain x Nah & Noire x Laurent would probably be preferable in this scenario.

He forgot to change Stahl to Frederick for Inigo.

Honestly Deitti, I'd just go for Donnel!Noire at this point. Mostly because female hard supports aren't as good as male hard supports when you're not using brave weapons, you'd have to re-arrange your team further to make it work, and since you're using a male Avatar, to top it all off making Noire a hard support would give you exactly one galepair, which would probably be Morgan and Brady.

Her mods would make her work best as a dark flier with LB, GF, Luna, AS+2 and maybe Underdog. She'll definitely be your worst girl, but that's really mostly due to lacking a procstack and not having the tremendous offensive power of, say, Vaike!Severa @ General to make up for it.

Edited by Alastor15243

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It's a good list, but Stahl is listed twice, married to both Olivia & Nowi.

Honestly, assuming Stahl goes to Inigo, it might be better off to ditch Nah since pretty much all of her preferred fathers are gone (Vaike, Stahl, Henry, etc.).

A potential option would be to move Libra off Miriel --> Olivia to free up Stahl for Nowi, since Laurent can really take any father and still be good; Gregor is a popular one for flexibility, while Kellam will just preserve his Mag mod better.

In any case, 1 Gale + 1 hard Support is preferred. There's a lot more flexibility in having 2 actions per pair. So something like Owain x Nah & Noire x Laurent would probably be preferable in this scenario.

haha, that was mistake since i copied my old list, Olivia was suppose to be married to Frederick and Nowi to Stahl.

Anyway thanks for the advice both of you.

Edited by Deitti

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Actually it just occurred to me that Donnel!Noire can run a lancefaire general like Vaike!Severa can run axefaire general. It would compensate nicely for her lack of astra. She'd be slower than Vaike!Severa, but probably fast enough to hit anything that isn't thronie or faster if you give her a +Spd pairup.

But looking at the remaining boys on your team, looks like the best +SPD pairup she can get is from a dread fighter Owain. Still probably not going to be your best pairing, for one thing it'll be pretty slow all around, and there'll be pairup bonus conflicts when Noire is in the back... but it could work.

...Another alternative is if you used Gregor!Laurent and made him a third berserker and used him for Donnel!Noire That would probably be good... except for the 5 move. If you can spare boots it might work, but it seems to waste using boots to salvage a mediocre unit... but then it depends on what else they're being used for.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Alright. I've been giving it some thought, Deitti, and here's how I, personally, would assemble your team, and I'll give my reasons so that if you don't like them, you can know why I did it and what to look for when making new ones. To save time, I'm not listing limit breaker among the skills, because that's on everyone:

Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier (Galeforce, Aether, Luna, Tomefaire) X +Mag-Str!Avatar @ Sage/Dread Fighter (AS+2, Aggressor, Mag+2/Solidarity, Tomefaire)

Dark Flier X Sage is a pretty standard pairing. Avatar will be a fantastic hard support for Cynthia, who will have some very impressive magical power on her side thanks to her husband's dual strikes and support bonuses. Flight's also a huge plus. You'll notice that I also left Dread Fighter and Solidarity as options. Basically, Solidarity will provide a 10% increase in critical hit rate for Cynthia, which might be more valuable than Avatar doing one more damage on dual strikes. As for Dread Fighter, well, while this will drop Avatar's magic significantly (Best magic stat in the game exchanged for the worst magic stat of a tome using class), it will also provide two important benefits: 1, the small speed pairup bonus will mean Cynthia will just barely reach 75 speed, which lets her attack both Anna (not advised, Lucina can take care of her) and the nightmare sniper (having a unit who can double attack him with magic is quite useful since he's quite hardy and if you don't swarm him he can kill any of your units quite reliably in a single round). 2, Cynthia's strength will become less horrible thanks to the 5 extra strength the pairup bonus gives Cynthia over sage, and so she might be able to use lances to take down certain enemies with Aegis. But in all honesty, it's a hefty power gap, and pavgis piercing is generally something you should only consider when both weapons use the same attack stat, like swords and bows or tomes and bolt axes. Ultimately it's up to you whether the extra speed and ability to use lances somewhat passably is worth it.

Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper (Galeforce, Aether, Luna, Dual Strike +) X Virion!Yarne @ Berserker (AS+2, Aggressor, Hit+20, Axefaire)

A fast, heavy-hitting long-range pair with a 100% DS rate, this is probably going to be your best team. Using forged longbows, or double bows if you have them, absolutely no enemy in all of apotheosis SR will be able to retaliate against this pair.

Gaius!Kjelle @ Wyvern Lord (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, AS+2) X Henry!Gerome @ Berserker (AS+2, Aggressor, Anathema, Axefaire)

A very strong pair with 8 movement and 75 speed. Very little to argue about.

Chrom!Cynthia!+Mag-Str!Morgan @ Dark Knight (Galeforce, Luna, Aether, Swordfaire) X Lon'qu!Brady @ Dread Fighter (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, Aggressor)

While this team's primary function is to take care of those pesky aegis berserkers, they function really well for other tasks too. As I said, Morgan hits 75 speed, and she can use tomes if the enemy has pavise. Brady will also do quite well against the aegis berserkers, though I'd honestly have Morgan tackle Thronie himself since she'll be better at it. You'll notice there's no faire on Brady. That's because, again, he can use tomes, levin swords and bolt axes, so giving him a faire would only apply at most half of the time. Astra gives him better stability of damage in front.

Donnel!Noire @ Dark Flier (Galeforce, Luna, AS+2, Armsthrift) X Libra!Laurent @ Sage (AS+2, Aggressor, Mag+2, Tomefaire)

The biggest problem with this pair is the high chance of whiffing thanks to only having Luna and having a pretty crappy skill mod. Probably the most likely of your pairs to let you down, but still better than a hard support Noire sheerly by virtue of you being able to have two galepairs, so making her a hard support would actually badly hurt your team elsewhere, namely...

Vaike!Severa @ General (Galeforce, Luna, AS+2, Axefaire) X Frederick!Inigo @ Paladin (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, Aggressor)

Vaike!Severa would be a lot less impressive if she weren't able to be part of a galepair, so using a hard support Noire would mean you'd have to give Morgan Laurent, which, while not TERRIBLE and would give Morgan a little bit more firepower, would make it significantly harder to sweep wave 4. As it stands, this will be great. Vaike!Severa will actually be the faster of the two due to pairup bonuses and Inigo's neutral speed mod. But they'll all be able to double anything below thronie (Severa will actually be able to double thronie, but she doesn't have much business fighting Thronie anyway, that's what Morgan's for), so they've got enough to lay some serious hurt on mooks, because this pairing has a LOT of strength.

Ricken!Owain @ Dread Fighter (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, Aggressor) X Stahl!Nah @ Bride (AS+2, Luna, Str+2, Deliverer)

Bride and Dread Fighter combos are absolutely great on no brave runs. Owain has levin swords/bolt axes and tomes, so he can magically attack either aegis or pavise, while Nah has bows and swords, meaning she can PHYSICALLY attack aegis or pavise. Between them, they can pierce any defense they like. Deliverer will probably help out more than bowfaire since you'll only be using bows half the time, and Nah will pretty much always be ending in front.

That's what I'd personally do, but don't feel bound by it, feel free to experiment!

Edited by Alastor15243

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I've seen Ricken!Severa - Sorcerer set before, but Sage Gerome?! Such things are unheard of! D:

Ricken!Gerome is really cool. I'm using him with a +Skl/-Def Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan in my main team and they can do just about anything together- 8 Mov 100% DS, 75 Valkyrie x Sage, and 75 Wyvern.

Although im still waiting to see if Czar will want to comment on hard support Noire

Noire's three main hard support dads are Ricken, Vaike and Fred. Ricken gives +6 Mag and TF/Sage, making her a much more potent non-+Spd magical hard support than Nah. Vaike gives excellent mods and AT for Sniper, and has the very useful benefit of getting her to 75 Spd with All+2 and a +3 support. Fred is discount Vaike who isn't in demand and doesn't give Spd/AT, but still has strong Str/Skl and high availability.

Actually it just occurred to me that Donnel!Noire can run a lancefaire general like Vaike!Severa can run axefaire general. It would compensate nicely for her lack of astra. She'd be slower than Vaike!Severa, but probably fast enough to hit anything that isn't thronie or faster if you give her a +Spd pairup.

But looking at the remaining boys on your team, looks like the best +SPD pairup she can get is from a dread fighter Owain.

General Donnel!Kjelle with a DF support needs All+2 (or an upgrade to Paladin support) to avoid being doubled by Anna. She's pretty slow.

What are the thoughts on Gaius!Cynthia?

She's the only non-Morgan girl who can hit 75 Spd as a DF with All+2, a Sage support and Tomefaire. Unfortunately she doesn't have room to run both All+2/TF and her procstack from Gaius, but given the rarity of 75 Spd 8 Mov magical units, it's pretty noteworthy.

She can also go GK with the same set as a 75 Wyvern (All+2, +3 support) and hit 75, but it's probably a bad idea. Her main downfall isn't the Peg overlap, but the fact that her Spd and class set put her in a great spot to use All+2 strats, but she has a procstack and doesn't want to spare a slot for All+2. It's a real pickle.

Apologies to anyone who's been waiting for answers from things for me. It's the start of summer, things are a little chaotic and internet is spotty. I'll be back full time soon, probably early July. In the meantime, thank you Alastor and BK for holding down the fort.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi

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Alright. I've been giving it some thought, Deitti, and here's how I, personally, would assemble your team, and I'll give my reasons so that if you don't like them, you can know why I did it and what to look for when making new ones. To save time, I'm not listing limit breaker among the skills, because that's on everyone:

Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier (Galeforce, Aether, Luna, Tomefaire) X +Mag-Str!Avatar @ Sage/Dread Fighter (AS+2, Aggressor, Mag+2/Solidarity, Tomefaire)

Dark Flier X Sage is a pretty standard pairing. Avatar will be a fantastic hard support for Cynthia, who will have some very impressive magical power on her side thanks to her husband's dual strikes and support bonuses. Flight's also a huge plus. You'll notice that I also left Dread Fighter and Solidarity as options. Basically, Solidarity will provide a 10% increase in critical hit rate for Cynthia, which might be more valuable than Avatar doing one more damage on dual strikes. As for Dread Fighter, well, while this will drop Avatar's magic significantly (Best magic stat in the game exchanged for the worst magic stat of a tome using class), it will also provide two important benefits: 1, the small speed pairup bonus will mean Cynthia will just barely reach 75 speed, which lets her attack both Anna (not advised, Lucina can take care of her) and the nightmare sniper (having a unit who can double attack him with magic is quite useful since he's quite hardy and if you don't swarm him he can kill any of your units quite reliably in a single round). 2, Cynthia's strength will become less horrible thanks to the 5 extra strength the pairup bonus gives Cynthia over sage, and so she might be able to use lances to take down certain enemies with Aegis. But in all honesty, it's a hefty power gap, and pavgis piercing is generally something you should only consider when both weapons use the same attack stat, like swords and bows or tomes and bolt axes. Ultimately it's up to you whether the extra speed and ability to use lances somewhat passably is worth it.

Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper (Galeforce, Aether, Luna, Dual Strike +) X Virion!Yarne @ Berserker (AS+2, Aggressor, Hit+20, Axefaire)

A fast, heavy-hitting long-range pair with a 100% DS rate, this is probably going to be your best team. Using forged longbows, or double bows if you have them, absolutely no enemy in all of apotheosis SR will be able to retaliate against this pair.

Gaius!Kjelle @ Wyvern Lord (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, AS+2) X Henry!Gerome @ Berserker (AS+2, Aggressor, Anathema, Axefaire)

A very strong pair with 8 movement and 75 speed. Very little to argue about.

Chrom!Cynthia!+Mag-Str!Morgan @ Dark Knight (Galeforce, Luna, Aether, Swordfaire) X Lon'qu!Brady @ Dread Fighter (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, Aggressor)

While this team's primary function is to take care of those pesky aegis berserkers, they function really well for other tasks too. As I said, Morgan hits 75 speed, and she can use tomes if the enemy has pavise. Brady will also do quite well against the aegis berserkers, though I'd honestly have Morgan tackle Thronie himself since she'll be better at it. You'll notice there's no faire on Brady. That's because, again, he can use tomes, levin swords and bolt axes, so giving him a faire would only apply at most half of the time. Astra gives him better stability of damage in front.

Donnel!Noire @ Dark Flier (Galeforce, Luna, AS+2, Armsthrift) X Libra!Laurent @ Sage (AS+2, Aggressor, Mag+2, Tomefaire)

The biggest problem with this pair is the high chance of whiffing thanks to only having Luna and having a pretty crappy skill mod. Probably the most likely of your pairs to let you down, but still better than a hard support Noire sheerly by virtue of you being able to have two galepairs, so making her a hard support would actually badly hurt your team elsewhere, namely...

Vaike!Severa @ General (Galeforce, Luna, AS+2, Axefaire) X Frederick!Inigo @ Paladin (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, Aggressor)

Vaike!Severa would be a lot less impressive if she weren't able to be part of a galepair, so using a hard support Noire would mean you'd have to give Morgan Laurent, which, while not TERRIBLE and would give Morgan a little bit more firepower, would make it significantly harder to sweep wave 4. As it stands, this will be great. Vaike!Severa will actually be the faster of the two due to pairup bonuses and Inigo's neutral speed mod. But they'll all be able to double anything below thronie (Severa will actually be able to double thronie, but she doesn't have much business fighting Thronie anyway, that's what Morgan's for), so they've got enough to lay some serious hurt on mooks, because this pairing has a LOT of strength.

Ricken!Owain @ Dread Fighter (Galeforce, Luna, Astra, Aggressor) X Stahl!Nah @ Bride (AS+2, Luna, Str+2, Deliverer)

Bride and Dread Fighter combos are absolutely great on no brave runs. Owain has levin swords/bolt axes and tomes, so he can magically attack either aegis or pavise, while Nah has bows and swords, meaning she can PHYSICALLY attack aegis or pavise. Between them, they can pierce any defense they like. Deliverer will probably help out more than bowfaire since you'll only be using bows half the time, and Nah will pretty much always be ending in front.

That's what I'd personally do, but don't feel bound by it, feel free to experiment!

Thanks alot, very detailed post which gives a nice base to use. And don't worry, i do like to experiment aswell despite asking alot. Thanks to Yoshi aswell.

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OH I AM SO THICK! I TOTALLY FORGOT!

Forget dread fighter for Avatar, Grandmaster's a better hard support option. Absolutely amazing pairup bonuses probably make up for the 6 less magic power. If you decide you want to hit 75 speed with Cynthia, go for Grandmaster instead of dread fighter.

Oh and no worries Yoshi, happy to help!

Edited by Alastor15243

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Hey friends

I'm thinking about changing my team around

All of this next post is with regards to this (which I've edited based on feedback)

Hey friends, me again, coming back with a long post of stuff this time. I'm going to spoiler it because it's going to take up a lot of space.

1. Which challenge in apotheosis is harder?

a. Full LB, no brave weapons

b. Full brave weapons, no LB

2. Which one of these combinations should I use?

a. Lon'qu x Miriel, Gregor x Maribelle

b. Gregor x Miriel, Lon'qu x Maribelle

I feel like they both accomplish the same things and either way both Brady and Laurent are going to be badasses

3a. What's your guys' opinion on these pairings?

Chrom x Sumia - Sniper!Lucina and Dark Flier!Cynthia

Avatar x Say'ri - Bride/Paladin (Will change depending on further feedback)!Morgan

Ricken x Lissa - Sage!Owain

Libra x Olivia - Dread Fighter!Inigo

Gaius x Sully - Wyvern!Kjelle

Stahl x Cordelia - Hero!Severa

Henry x Cherche - Berserker!Gerome

Virion x Panne - Berserker!Yarne

Vaike x Nowi - Hero!Nah

Donnel x Tharja - Sniper!Noire

Lon'qu x Maribelle - Sage!Brady

Gregor x Miriel - Dread Fighter!Laurent

3b. Pairing the second gen

Pretty solid:

Sniper!Lucina x Berserker!Yarne

Wyvern!Kjelle x Berserker!Gerome

Sage!Owain x Dark Flier/Sniper!Cynthia

Sage!Laurent x Dark Flier/Sniper!Noire

Unsure:

Hero!Nah x Dread Fighter/Sage!Brady

Dread Fighter!Inigo x Whatever!Morgan

Then for Apo Severa would tag along with Cordelia. I'm quite unsure about these pairings for the second gen, but I think my first gen is pretty good. Anyway, usual requests. Class help, pairing help, everything. Thank you again!

Right so I've thought about a few alternate setups, such as

Scenario 1: I switch Vaike and Stahl. I've never used Stahl!Nah before, so what's a good build? Then I know Vaike!Severa is great, especially as a hero

Scenario 2: I move Stahl to Olivia, Libra to Maribelle, and Lon'qu to Cordelia. My physical/magical spread is rather uneven and I think this would be good to help it out

Scenario 3: I switch Donnel with Frederick. Noire loses Galeforce and AT but becomes better at everything else

There's also always the option to change nothing, and I will definitely make another post talking about the second gen after I get advice from this

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Hey friends

I'm thinking about changing my team around

All of this next post is with regards to this (which I've edited based on feedback)

Right so I've thought about a few alternate setups, such as

Scenario 1: I switch Vaike and Stahl. I've never used Stahl!Nah before, so what's a good build? Then I know Vaike!Severa is great, especially as a hero Personally I find she works better as a General if you have her as part of a galepair with a paladin husband. As for Stahl!Nah, I generally use her as a sniper wife to a skill-focused male Morgan so that he can hit 100% DS and she has decent offensive power, and there's also the option of bringing her up front to deal with really dangerous stuff at 3-range.

Scenario 2: I move Stahl to Olivia, Libra to Maribelle, and Lon'qu to Cordelia. My physical/magical spread is rather uneven and I think this would be good to help it out

Scenario 3: I switch Donnel with Frederick. Noire loses Galeforce and AT but becomes better at everything else Be warned, making Noire a hard support means that you only get ONE galepair. Doesn't necessarily make this a horrible idea, but just be careful of that.

There's also always the option to change nothing, and I will definitely make another post talking about the second gen after I get advice from this

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I thought this was answered, but I can't find it looking through the last few pages. Is Lon'qu!severa that much better than Virion!severa? I ask because Lon'qu would be great on Brady or Laurent (would make Laurent into a tight support unit with wyvern and vantage, and heck, why not pass through assassin for the heck of it). This frees up Gregor to go somewhere else and gives me that sweet critical build option if I want it.

Am I losing out on anything overall with that thinking? Both with Severa or Laurent? Severa keeps her plus 5 threshold and Laurent becomes a very potent support.

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They're really pretty much identical from what I can tell. The selling point is the whole 75 speed wyvern lord thing, both of them can reach it if they have AS+2, and since they're both limited to vengeance, which on apotheosis level characters has a 100% proc rate, that extra skill and speed from Lon'qu is meaningless. The only difference is that Lon'qu!Severa can hit 75 speed as a wyvern lord WITHOUT AS+2 IF you replace berserker with assassin for her husband, which probably isn't the best idea for a hard support. It honestly boils down to which hair color you like better and which parent you want to make use of elsewhere.

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They're really pretty much identical from what I can tell. The selling point is the whole 75 speed wyvern lord thing, both of them can reach it if they have AS+2, and since they're both limited to vengeance, which on apotheosis level characters has a 100% proc rate, that extra skill and speed from Lon'qu is meaningless. The only difference is that Lon'qu!Severa can hit 75 speed as a wyvern lord WITHOUT AS+2 IF you replace berserker with assassin for her husband, which probably isn't the best idea for a hard support. It honestly boils down to which hair color you like better and which parent you want to make use of elsewhere.

I kept going over it and kept coming up with the same result as well. I think the anti Anna unit was the draw of the extra skill and speed, but I don't care about that. It seems like Lon'qu would be a much bigger boost to other units than he is to Severa, who basically needs mods. Lon'qu is the one guy that can get a kid with an inherent +1 speed mod to the coveted +5. Meaning now Inigo, Noire, Laurent, all get a shot at it.

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I thought this was answered, but I can't find it looking through the last few pages. Is Lon'qu!severa that much better than Virion!severa? I ask because Lon'qu would be great on Brady or Laurent (would make Laurent into a tight support unit with wyvern and vantage, and heck, why not pass through assassin for the heck of it). This frees up Gregor to go somewhere else and gives me that sweet critical build option if I want it.

Am I losing out on anything overall with that thinking? Both with Severa or Laurent? Severa keeps her plus 5 threshold and Laurent becomes a very potent support.

The main appeal of Lon'qu!Severa over Virion!Severa is that the 1 extra speed allows you to hit 50 SPD as a Hero with AS+2, and grants Swordfaire to use as Hero.

That's pretty much it; by comparison Virion also grants Archer (for a Sniper build, or potential BK) & Tomefaire.

In the end though, Virion's just generally more coveted as a father compared to Lon'qu. Lon'qu doesn't give a proc (so not good for Owain or Inigo) and doesn't give +Hit skills (so not good for Gerome or Yarne), which heavily limits his options.

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