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Not really, I'm pretty sure Aversa!Morgan is more than capable of V/Ving with it during no dlc/no rally 100%. So it's viability shouldn't be put into question at all. There are so many ways you can increase hit (hexnathema alone doesn't even have to come from the unit) to the point it's easier to generate hit than it is to generate attack (without dlc).

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Not really, I'm pretty sure Aversa!Morgan is more than capable of V/Ving with it during no dlc/no rally 100%. So it's viability shouldn't be put into question at all. There are so many ways you can increase hit (hexnathema alone doesn't even have to come from the unit) to the point it's easier to generate hit than it is to generate attack (without dlc).

That's not what I'm getting at - Waste with no Tomefaire is a grand total of 1`point stronger than Celica's with Tomefaire (assuming full MT for both). That heavily reeks of "marginal benefit that ain't worth it" to me...

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Assuming +Mag/-Def Aversa!Morgan is sitting with a +8 Mag mod (increasing it doesn't hit any good marks while going below to +4 Mag mod means taking in some rallies). I'll compare her to her strongest counterparts also with a +8 Mag mod Morgans (Namely Lon'qu!Noire for female and Lon'qu!Laurent for male).

Shadowgift, Vengeance, Vantage, HR+20, Galeforce
vs

Tomefaire, Vengeance, Vantage, Mag+2, Galeforce

Celica's Gale: 4 MT/80 Hit

Waste: 10 Mt/45 Hit

With Celica's Gale it's extremely traditional to take +5/+15/+0 on forge; Waste can opt for +4/+20/+0.

Aversa!Morgan will be down +2 Mag (coming from Mag+2) and have the exact same hit rate as Celica's Gale (which we all know is handily 100% hit rate without needing bonus). Coming in against dragonskin, she's down 1 damage per attack (which as seen in many calcs, it can be relevant). If Waste went for +5/+15/+0 [and assuming rounding down] then she will have the exact same firepower for the cost of 5 Hit. If you sacked HR+20 for tomefaire w/ +4/+20/+0, then she has a +4 damage lead (so 2 per attack on dragonskin). This comes at the cost of probably needing a support with Anathema (so partner is restricted to having DM). Any boss on terrain will also need to eat a hex (or if her partner inherited DuSu+ and Chrom/Lucina Charm is in range). Don't get me wrong, there is a limitation where she can perform equal to the best Morgans. And if you built around her, she's got higher MT to the point where she might skip out on needing a preemptive special dance (which can be nice).

Again, this is comparing against what I'd say are the top Morgans for each gender; I need to keep repeating this. The real killer is being female (no Lucina S rank), Aversa gets no Sage (but has Sorc/DF) to support MaMU, and her Skl mod isn't a +3/+5. If you took a +Skl/-Def Aversa!Morgan, this lets you nail that Skl mod (something Lon'qu!Laurent!Morgan gets with +Mag asset) which is insane. Looking at that +4 damage lead? Now Aversa!Morgan is putting out the exact same offense and reaps the benefit of skipping Skl+2 that +3 Morgans take in application (rather than looking at just "on paper numbers.")

So yes, I do think Aversa!Morgan is a top-of-the-line Morgan due to shadowgift Sage.

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Can anyone tell me the normal Virion!Gerome set-up.I have been trying out the pairing since I heard a lot of good things about it.He is married to Sumia!Lucina!Morgan by the way.

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Can anyone tell me the normal Virion!Gerome set-up.I have been trying out the pairing since I heard a lot of good things about it.He is married to Sumia!Lucina!Morgan by the way.

It's generally Warrior, LB/AS+2/Hit+20/Agg/Bowfaire.

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It's generally Warrior, LB/AS+2/Hit+20/Agg/Bowfaire.

Oh okay, thanks.

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Can anyone tell me the normal Virion!Gerome set-up.I have been trying out the pairing since I heard a lot of good things about it.He is married to Sumia!Lucina!Morgan by the way.

To add to Alastor's post, w/ no dlc it's

Warrior

Bowfaire/Hit +20/Str +2/Dual Support+/Free slot (this can be a Breaker for a specific Apo boss)

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Following on though, I'm in for another crack at the game and wanted some advice in putting together a team that can blow through Apo and all the DLC missions. I've played the game to death on all difficulties, so story isn't really an issue, this is a team for post-game. Also, while in the past I wanted to make a balanced team this time I wanted to prioritise my favourite kids, being (in order of preference);

Lucina

Severa

Noire

Cynthia

Brady

Generally, I'd want ideal parents for all 5, but the top 3 are the main priority as I'm aware that it's hard to screw up Cynthia and Brady. With that in mind I was thinking;

Chrom x FeMu: I always play FeMu, that's pretty non-negotiable, plus this would in my mind, give a pretty boss Lucina and Morgan. Lucina would be looking to take a lead role.

Lon'qu x Cordelia: Severa is going to go physical, so without knowing specifics, I'm thinking this would give good Spd and Str and she can pick up Astra and Swordfaire to use with Armsthrift and Sol

Gaius x Tharja: actually not sure here, I usually use a GF father but am open to a non-GF Noire with suggestions, as I usually shift her to Bride class early on, given she can use bow and lance.

Fred x Sumia: I'm thinking this is the best of a bad situation, as I'm tempted to give Henry to Cherche so I get Berseker Gerome support. Cynthia would still have everything she needs to be awesome, I';m just worried about the - to Spd.

Virion x Maribelle: Again, not sure what Brady definitely needs or not, but seeing as Mari appears to give him everything anyway, Virion just helps add some polish to him.

Admittedly, I'm pretty flexible. Stahl x Cordelia is an absolute no-no, that's pretty much the only pairing I won't accept, as the hair is that bad. I also like FeMu x Chrom because it adds something story wise with certain chapters and just feels right.

I'd guess the other pairings would kind of look like

Henry x Cherche

Vaike x Nowi

Ricken x Miriel

Stahl x Panne

Donnel x Sully

Libra x Lissa

I'm aware that smaller numbers can be more effective than taking a full team on every map, so I'm not sure if I'd use many outside of the 5 kids (with partners), Chrom x FeMu and Olivia (with partner) as she's a personal favourite of mine (waifu? I'm not a fan of that word but I guess, yeah Olivia is my waifu) so that would be 14 total.

Thanks in advance for the help. I've not started the save yet, so I'm incredibly flexible notwithstanding the aforementioned red-lines.

Right, so decided to tweak it a little. Now thinking;

Chrom x Sumia

Gregory x Cordelia

Gaius x Tharja

Lon'qu x Maribelle

What do we think? Happy to take advice on the others but again the 5 kids are a priority. I want them to be taking lead roles as well so would appreciate who to support them.

Guess this leaves FeMu spare as well. Thinking..........FeMu x Brady? Never had my avatar marry a 2nd gen to be fair.

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Right, so decided to tweak it a little. Now thinking;

Chrom x Sumia

Gregory x Cordelia

Gaius x Tharja

Lon'qu x Maribelle

What do we think? Happy to take advice on the others but again the 5 kids are a priority. I want them to be taking lead roles as well so would appreciate who to support them.

Guess this leaves FeMu spare as well. Thinking..........FeMu x Brady? Never had my avatar marry a 2nd gen to be fair.

All of those are good except Gregor x Cordelia which gives her nothing. Stahl and Vaike are better for her because they give her luna (and astra in Stahl's case), which is really the only thing she needs

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All of those are good except Gregor x Cordelia which gives her nothing. Stahl and Vaike are better for her because they give her luna (and astra in Stahl's case), which is really the only thing she needs

Looking at it another way, Severa doesn't need Luna if she runs Vengeance for a main proc, and Gregor gives her Axefaire and Swordfaire to play with. The only problem is opportunity cost, really.

Right, so decided to tweak it a little. Now thinking;

Chrom x Sumia

Gregory x Cordelia

Gaius x Tharja

Lon'qu x Maribelle

What do we think? Happy to take advice on the others but again the 5 kids are a priority. I want them to be taking lead roles as well so would appreciate who to support them.

Guess this leaves FeMu spare as well. Thinking..........FeMu x Brady? Never had my avatar marry a 2nd gen to be fair.

Marrying LQ!Brady is a pretty legit choice.

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If you do lon'qu!Brady, depending on your asset/flaw you either want to do LQ!Brady OR... give Yarne Virion and then marry him if you want to go +spd or if you just want to be physical in general.

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In response to the earlier post: Tbh, the only reason why I went for Virion!Brady is because my options for both Henry and Libra are already taken by Cynthia and Owain. Aside from having more speed mod stats and 3 weaponbreakers, is that all Virion!Brady really is good for? Just wondering... : /

Edited by Formerly Colm

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Brady has no room for a +hit skill. He wants speed, and Virion gives him THAT (Along with Lon'qu).

Doesn't Lon'qu offer Astra as well, with Virion only able to offer... not really much of anything? They both give Wyvern Rider, and Brady already has the Mage line inherently from Maribelle. In terms of class and skill additions, Lon'qu wins.

Even Lon'qu's stat mods are more extreme than Virion, if only by one point.

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Doesn't Lon'qu offer Astra as well, with Virion only able to offer... not really much of anything? They both give Wyvern Rider, and Brady already has the Mage line inherently from Maribelle. In terms of class and skill additions, Lon'qu wins.

Even Lon'qu's stat mods are more extreme than Virion, if only by one point.

I never argued that Virion was better than Lon'qu, Lon'qu's objectively better for Brady, I'm just saying that the hit+20 is NOT the reason why Virion!Brady is good.

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Brady has no room for a +hit skill. He wants speed, and Virion gives him THAT (Along with Lon'qu).

*No dlc

I should really put a disclaimer up.

Hit +20/GF/Luna/TF/Mag +2 or even DSu+ is better than having no +Hit from LQ.

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*No dlc

I should really put a disclaimer up.

Hit +20/GF/Luna/TF/Mag +2 or even DSu+ is better than having no +Hit from LQ.

Brady can't get DSu+ without sacrificing Galeforce.

But otherwise understood, talking about no DLC.

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[spoiler=Inigo analysis]

INIGO

Mother: Olivia

Base mods: 1/1/2/2/1/0/0

Base classes: Mercenary, Myrmidon, Barbarian

With galeforce and great classes right off the bat, Inigo is already pretty good. His only problem is lack of a reliable proc. Any father that can give him Vengeance or Luna is recommended here. His mods also aren't too special, but they do make him rather fast and let him be efficient as either a physical fighter or a magical fighter. He's also my favorite character in the game.

Avatar!Inigo

Mods: Varies

New classes: all male classes

Pros: diversity in classes, mod variety, procs

Cons: boring Morgan

He's really similar to Owain in that none of his other fathers make him truly amazing, but still not a great use for the avatar. All he really wants is a proc, and a bunch of other fathers provide that to him without making Morgan boring. Olivia!Morgan is better than most of the other 2nd Gen!Morgans, because her mods make it so she's fairly fast and both Morgan and Inigo can either be physical or magical. So it's not the best use of the avatar, but it's definitely not the worst. 6/10

Chrom!Inigo

Mods: 2/1/3/3/2/-1/-1

New classes: Cavalier, Archer

Pros: Gives luna, proc stacking, good mods, good hair color

Cons: Opportunity cost

Well, Chrom gives a proc, and great classes to work with. He can be a paladin, or a sniper, or a hero, or even a berserker/warrior if needed. It would be easily the best, but unfortunately it means you can't do Chrom x Sumia, which means you have to do Henry x Sumia. This means that Henry can't be used for Gerome or Nah, and Cynthia isn't as amazing as she can be (but as I said, she's still pretty awesome). Other than that opportunity cost, it's the best pairing for Olivia. 8.5/10

Frederick!Inigo

Mods: 3/-1/4/0/1/2/0

New classes: Cavalier, Knight, Wyvern Rider

Pros: Gives luna, proc stacking, diverse classes, no opportunity cost

Cons: a bit slow

Alright, so it is similar to Chrom!Inigo, but it's a bit slower and lacks the ability to go Sniper. However, no other child really wants Frederick as their father, meaning the opportunity cost is basically nonexistent. So it's actually pretty awesome. He's a bit slow, but most likely Inigo will only need enough speed to double the mooks, which he easily gets. I'll say it gets a 8.5/10

Virion!Inigo

Mods: 1/1/4/4/0/-2/0

New classes: Archer, Wyvern Rider, Mage

Pros: good mods, good class diversity

Cons: no proc, opportunity cost

I hate that this pairing isn't that good because it's actually my favorite pairing for both Olivia and Virion. But nevertheless, it's not very good. It doesn't give him the proc he wants, and it steals Virion away from the kids that need him the most. The class choices are pretty good, and he does get tomefaire if you wanted him to be a sage or a dread fighter, but there are so many better options that actually give him a proc that this one is way outclassed. It's a bad waste of Virion, and Inigo doesn't live up to his potential. 2.5/10

Stahl!Inigo

Mods: 3/0/3/2/-1/2/-1

New classes: Cavalier, Archer

Pros: gives a proc, proc stacking, great class choices

Cons: opportunity cost

See Chrom!Inigo, but with slightly less opportunity cost. Looking at the options if you end up doing it, you can either use Lon'qu!Cordelia, which is awesome if you like Vengeance, or not use Nah (which isn't too big of a deal). So the opportunity cost really isn't that bad. 9/10

Vaike!Inigo

Mods: 4/-1/3/3/0/0/-2

New classes: Fighter, Thief

Pros: good mods

Cons: no proc, only new class is trickster (which barely even counts as a class)

I have to hand it to the Vaike: he's very good at making kids bad. I guess he's also good at making them good, but we'll talk about that another time. He doesn't give Inigo a proc, and the only new class he gets is Trickster, which he doesn't have the magic to use, and even if he did, Dread Fighter would be better. One of the four absolutely awful fathers for Inigo. 1/10

Kellam!Inigo

Mods: 2/1/3/0/-1/3/0

New classes: Knight, Priest, Thief

Pros: gives a proc, gives tomefaire and sage, no opportunity cost

Cons: mods aren't very good, really outclassed by other fathers

It's basically Frederick!Inigo, but magical. Magical Inigo can be quite good, but there are other fathers who are so much better than Kellam that this one isn't that great. It has no opportunity cost, because no other child wants Kellam as their father, so that's a good thing. Bottom line is, it's decent, but there are other, way better options for physical, magical, or mixed Inigo. Out of all the fathers that give him a proc, Kellam is the worst. 5/10

Donnel!Inigo

Mods: 2/0/1/1/4/1/-1

New classes: Villager, Fighter

Pros: None

Cons: opportunity cost, no proc, only new class is villager, bad mods

Let's start with all the classes he gets: Wow, villager is going to help out a lot. Fighter, let's see that promotes into hero and warrior... Oh, two classes he already has. He doesn't give a proc, and if you use Donnel for Inigo, you just lost Galeforce on either Kjelle or Noire. There is absolutely no reason to do this pairing if you want your kids to be even somewhat good. 0/10

Lon'qu!Inigo

Mods: 1/1/5/5/1/-2/-2

New classes: Thief, Wyvern Rider

Pros: pretty good mods

Cons: no proc, opportunity cost, not great class choices

It has pretty okay mods, but that's it. No proc, only one new class, and Lon'qu is way better used somewhere else. You really shouldn't do this one either. It's better than Donnel, but not by much. 1/10

Ricken!Inigo

Mods: 0/3/2/2/2/-1/0

New classes: Mage, Cavalier, Archer

Pros: gives a proc, great class choices

Cons: slight opportunity cost

Despite how much I despise this pairing, it's actually pretty good. It gives him the proc he wants, quite a lot of magic, and Sage/Tomefaire for a final class. The mods other than magic are fairly boring, and it does have a bit of an opportunity cost. Ricken is generally considered better for Owain, and you can get a great magic Inigo out of another father with no opportunity cost at all. But if you really like magical Inigo, this one is where you should go. 8/10

Gaius!Inigo

Mods: 2/0/4/4/-1/-1/0

New classes: Thief

Pros: pretty good mods

Cons: serious opportunity cost, trickster as the only new class, no proc

Just like with Owain, this is the worst pairing for Olivia. It forces you to ruin either Kjelle or Noire, it doesn't give a proc, and it doesn't give any new classes besides trickster. The mods are fairly good, but they're nowhere near worth it. 0/10

Gregor!Inigo

Mods: 3/0/4/2/0/1/-2

New classes: none

Pros: none

Cons: pretty much everything

Absolutely no new classes. That's terrible. The only thing that's better than Gaius!Inigo is the fact that the other kids are still redeemable. Don't do this one if you value Inigo at all. 0/10

Libra!Inigo

Mods: 1/2/3/2/0/0/1

New classes: Mage, Dark Mage, Priest

Pros: very diverse magical Inigo, gives a proc, no opportunity cost, HAIR COLOR

Cons: boring mods

One of Inigo's benefits is his ability to work well with fathers like Frederick and Libra and still be able to be amazing. This pairing gives you a very similar Inigo to Ricken!Inigo, but with vengeance instead of luna, and less opportunity cost. The mods are fairly boring, but this is actually one of the better fathers for Inigo. 8/10

Henry!Inigo

Mods: 2/2/4/2/-1/1/-1

New classes: Dark Mage, Thief

Pros: can run berserker really well, diverse options (can go physical, magical, or mixed)

cons: opportunity cost, better specialized physical/magical options

Weirdly enough, this one is actually good as either physical or magical. He gets a proc (vengeance), and anathema for him to use to be a berserker. He also gets a decent magic mod to function well as a mixed class like swordfaire!dark knight or dread fighter. All in all, a very good pairing. However, the opportunity cost is pretty high, and Henry is one of the best fathers in the game. If you don't mind that, it works very well. 8/10

Edited by Duck

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Libra!Inigo

Mods: 1/2/3/2/0/0/1

New classes: Mage, Dark Mage, Priest

Pros: very diverse magical Inigo, gives a proc, no opportunity cost, HAIR COLOR

Cons: boring mods

One of Inigo's benefits is his ability to work well with fathers like Frederick and Libra and still be able to be amazing. This pairing gives you a very similar Inigo to Ricken!Inigo, but with vengeance instead of luna, and less opportunity cost. The mods are fairly boring, but this is actually one of the better fathers for Inigo.

I think it's worth mentioning that Libra!Inigo can actually work as a physical fighter. His strength mod is only one less than the magic mod and he has inherent Axefaire and Swordfaire. If his wife runs Anathema for him, he can make a decent Berserker. With Vengeance as his proc, the crappy skill doesn't matter as much. I wouldn't say he's better at it than Yarne or Henry!Gerome, but it's something. I ran Libra!Inigo @ Berseker with Gregor!Noire @ Sniper my last run, and they were surprisingly effective. This Inigo would also make a great Dread Fighter.

Just curious, though- why don't you like Ricken!Inigo?

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I think it's worth mentioning that Libra!Inigo can actually work as a physical fighter. His strength mod is only one less than the magic mod and he has inherent Axefaire and Swordfaire. If his wife runs Anathema for him, he can make a decent Berserker. With Vengeance as his proc, the crappy skill doesn't matter as much. I wouldn't say he's better at it than Yarne or Henry!Gerome, but it's something. I ran Libra!Inigo @ Berseker with Gregor!Noire @ Sniper my last run, and they were surprisingly effective. This Inigo would also make a great Dread Fighter.

Just curious, though- why don't you like Ricken!Inigo?

I agree that Libra!inigo works as a physical fighter, but he's just so much better magical or mixed, and someone like Stahl or Frederick works way better for him physically. And I definitely agree with him making a great dread fighter, that's actually the class I run him as.

It's personal preference really. I can't stand Ricken, and he usually marries the grave in my runs. Plus (thisis completely my opinion, and I understand if every one disagrees) his supports with Olivia are completely ridiculous: she is literally reading him bedtime stories, and then he proposes. Plus, if I want a magical Inigo, Libra!Inigo is my favorite because their supports are great and Inigo looks amazing with blonde hair.

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I agree that Libra!inigo works as a physical fighter, but he's just so much better magical or mixed, and someone like Stahl or Frederick works way better for him physically. And I definitely agree with him making a great dread fighter, that's actually the class I run him as.

It's personal preference really. I can't stand Ricken, and he usually marries the grave in my runs. Plus (thisis completely my opinion, and I understand if every one disagrees) his supports with Olivia are completely ridiculous: she is literally reading him bedtime stories, and then he proposes. Plus, if I want a magical Inigo, Libra!Inigo is my favorite because their supports are great and Inigo looks amazing with blonde hair.

Oh, Frederick and Stahl are absolutely better for a physical Inigo, but I thought it should be mentioned that Libra!Inigo could technically go physical as well. Just in case Stahl is being used elsewhere and Frederick is somehow dead (or does he just retreat?) And if it's mentioned for Henry I think it should be brought up for Libra as well.

As for Olivia and Ricken...yeah, okay, that support squicks me out.

Edited by JediZelda

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Oh, Frederick and Stahl are absolutely better for a physical Inigo, but I thought it should be mentioned that Libra!Inigo could technically go physical as well. Just in case Stahl is being used elsewhere and Frederick is somehow dead (or does he just retreat?) And if it's mentioned for Henry I think it should be brought up for Libra as well.

As for Olivia and Ricken...yeah, okay, that support squicks me out.

The reason I mentioned it for Henry is because Henry actually gives a +strength mod in addition to his +magic mod, and he doesn't give sage like Libra does for magic. So then the reason I didn't put it in Libra's is that he's just so much better magical due to having Sage/Tomefaire. Henry doesn't actually give a very efficient magic class, so running a physical Inigo with Henry is actually a viable option, unlike with Libra, where his amazing magical access make it less viable to be physical.

tl;dr it's doable, but not great, especially with all the magic tools he has at his disposal

He somehow manages to act even less mature in those supports then he is normally, which is tough to do.

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The reason I mentioned it for Henry is because Henry actually gives a +strength mod in addition to his +magic mod, and he doesn't give sage like Libra does for magic. So then the reason I didn't put it in Libra's is that he's just so much better magical due to having Sage/Tomefaire. Henry doesn't actually give a very efficient magic class, so running a physical Inigo with Henry is actually a viable option, unlike with Libra, where his amazing magical access make it less viable to be physical.

tl;dr it's doable, but not great, especially with all the magic tools he has at his disposal

He somehow manages to act even less mature in those supports then he is normally, which is tough to do.

Henry gives 1 more strength than Libra. That doesn't even amount to 1 more full damage point on Apotheosis, I don't think it makes the difference between physically viable and not.

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