PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Minedreigon]

Getting conflicting messages here. There's always ways to make stuff viable, but if you're going for as optimal as possible, that isn't a question you should ever be asking.

Typically, male Robin > female, -Def > -Lck, and Swordmaster is pretty close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of classes. Again, you can make what you have work, and it'll work just fine, but there's no way to call it as optimal as possible.

Ok, so, as optimal as possible with this in mind, I guess is what I should have said? I'll still do -Def over -Luck though, as looking back at it, that seems genuinely superior. Cheers.

[IcyFlame57]

Quick question, what skill should Gaius give to Noire if I plan to make her a sniper: Counter or Sol?

[amiabletemplar]

Well, based more on the advice I've been given before, rather than on any real knowledge of my own:

Any info I could give on Morgan's dad will be long out of date, but Chrom!Inigo might be good.

Generally -Luck is frowned on, for reducing hit and crit (and increasing the chance to be hit), so if you aren't committed to it yet, you could consider switching. As was said relatively recently in this thread, -Def is usually the preferred flaw. (Edit: Ninja'd on that one. It's what I get for trying to post on multiple disparate forums at the same time.)

Ricken!Laurent is probably your best bet--consolidate that Mag. I don't know about the others. Kellam is Worst Dad Ever, and Fred is the runner-up (runner-down?) so you probably won't use either of them. Gregor!Yarne was recommended to me, but things might be a bit different with a narrower playing field like this.

Edited January 18, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[KY791]

Getting conflicting messages here. There's always ways to make stuff viable, but if you're going for as optimal as possible, that isn't a question you should ever be asking.

Typically, male Robin > female, -Def > -Lck, and Swordmaster is pretty close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of classes. Again, you can make what you have work, and it'll work just fine, but there's no way to call it as optimal as possible.

Oh what is the reasoning behind this? I always figured that F Robin > M Robin since you have access to Galefore and can easily pass it down to Morgan.

Also have concerns about movement in Apo? I originally considered running both Sumia!Lucina and Cynthia as DF in order to give Brady and Owain better movement with a decent magic bonus as I'll be running sage with the both of them.

How viable is Dread Fighter in Apo? I've been considering changing both Brady and Owain back to Dread and run Inigo as a third, the former two carrying tomes while Inigo carries weapons/ tomes (I have yet to cap his stats so I'm not too sure about this).

In terms of partnering in Apo, who should I consider for Female Robin? My Asset/Flaw is Mgc+/Str-. So I, believe it would narrow down my choice to Owain and Brady, but I'm not sure if the pairing with Owain could be better used else where with another female caster (Lucina or Cynthia who ever I would decide for now I don't even know if I should make them magical classes at all their Mgc stat growth rates are artrocious to me).

[Radiant head]

Oh what is the reasoning behind this? I always figured that F Robin > M Robin since you have access to Galefore and can easily pass it down to Morgan.

Also have concerns about movement in Apo? I originally considered running both Sumia!Lucina and Cynthia as DF in order to give Brady and Owain better movement with a decent magic bonus as I'll be running sage with the both of them.

How viable is Dread Fighter in Apo? I've been considering changing both Brady and Owain back to Dread and run Inigo as a third, the former two carrying tomes while Inigo carries weapons/ tomes (I have yet to cap his stats so I'm not too sure about this).

Hard supports with perfect skill builds are considered more rarer and thus fill a more valuable role than what amounts to just being another lead unit. Male Robin can run Aggressor/Faire/+hit, etc. and he's usually a hard support for a top tier lead child unit. I actually don't really care too much about this at all, and prefer Fem Robin myself, but that's the logic.

Dread Fighters kind of depend on circumstances. The main selling point they have is that they are the only magic class besides the rare Grandmasters that can grand +spd pair up bonuses, so they're nice to have if you have a Dark Flier that needs the +spd to hit a higher threshold. The downside though is that they have a bad magic cap. But this can usually be offset with good modifiers, ie. Ricken!Owain has 43 magic as a DF.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Oh what is the reasoning behind this? I always figured that F Robin > M Robin since you have access to Galefore and can easily pass it down to Morgan.

Also have concerns about movement in Apo? I originally considered running both Sumia!Lucina and Cynthia as DF in order to give Brady and Owain better movement with a decent magic bonus as I'll be running sage with the both of them.

How viable is Dread Fighter in Apo? I've been considering changing both Brady and Owain back to Dread and run Inigo as a third, the former two carrying tomes while Inigo carries weapons/ tomes (I have yet to cap his stats so I'm not too sure about this).

In terms of partnering in Apo, who should I consider for Female Robin? My Asset/Flaw is Mgc+/Str-. So I, believe it would narrow down my choice to Owain and Brady, but I'm not sure if the pairing with Owain could be better used else where with another female caster (Lucina or Cynthia who ever I would decide for now I don't even know if I should make them magical classes at all their Mgc stat growth rates are artrocious to me).

First, the extra GF isn't as useful as it sounds. Since it's a Galeboy, it can't give you an extra galepair, only turn an existing galepair into a double galepair, and the difference between no GF and one GF is much bigger than the difference between one GF and two. Being able to move at all after attacking allows you to hit and run without a Staffbot's turn, having an extra GF just lets you hit twice and run- the running part is what's important. Second, there's a fairly heavy mod mismatch in M's favor- F needs to lead, but she's stuck with an extremely limited mod choice. Take +4 Spd? That's still nothing compared to the likes of Cynthia/Lucina, Severa and Gaius!Kjelle, and she has no positive Atk mods to back it up. Take +Mag? Now you've got only +2 Spd. And while there are certainly ways to make that work, she's always going to be playing second fiddle to a host of really good galegirls. Now compare that to what M has to offer- he's a hard support, as diverse as they come, and he can have decent Str/Skl (or Mag) without worrying one bit about his other stats. Morgan-F? She'll be right up there with the other galegirls, even at the head of the pack. So you're choosing between a poor Robin and average Morgan, and a good Robin and a good Morgan. Note that when I say average for Morgan-M, it's not because he's statistically any worse than F, it's because he can't put his strengths to use as well as she can- thanks to Agg, he'll want to be in the back for important fights, so there's not much for him to do with any high stats he happens to have. As a primary lead, F can make much better use of her high mods.

For Mov, it's not gamebreaking, but I built my team so every pair could get 8 Mov through class, Boots or Deliverer. It's quite nice.

Dread Fighter? It can be interesting as a coverage class, and work nicely paired with a Bride. However, it has the lowest Mag of any tome-using class in the game, and no real standout stats, making it difficult to find a niche, so it's usually passed up in favor of other classes.

Owain and Brady are both fine for Robin. You'll be locked to DF x Sage, though.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

Hey, I was just wondering, as far as end-game optimization/Apotheosis is concerned, what's the best way to pair off the 2nd generation characters? I guess more specifically, what needs to be considered when pairing them together?

EDIT:

ChromXSumia

SullyXDonnel

LissaXHenry

MaribelleXLon'Qu

MirielXGregor

CordeliaXStahl

TharjaXGaius

NowiXVaike

PanneXRicken

ChercheXVirion

FeMUXYarne

These are the pairs I'm going with.

Edited January 19, 2016 by LiterallyAPegasus

[Czar_Yoshi]

Generally, you first consider the roles each child is best at and what best compliments them, and pair up accordingly. There's a loose hierarchy that determines who gets top pick and is usually based on how versatile your units are, but it just speeds up the process and doesn't matter too much.

Lucina and Cynthia would like to be Snipers/Paladins with a Berserker/Hero/BK support. They can also go Sage x DF, but aren't anything special at it. DF x GM is also an option for Robin/Morgan marriages. With this team, Yarne and Laurent are going to be your main Berserkers (and Sages, for that matter). I don't see Inigo in your list, though he can sometimes make a good Hero or BK with one of them. Morgan may also be an option here.

Kjelle can take either a Berserker/Hero/BK/Paladin as a Wyvern Lord, or a Warrior (in this case, Gerome) as a Paladin with All+2.

Owain and Brady will both be standard male GF Sages. You'll want to pair them with Snipers or Dark Fliers.

Laurent is pretty cool and can be a Sage or Berserker. Give him to anyone who appreciates one of those except Noire (she uses Bows, which will make his Hex not work).

Severa also wants a Berserker/Hero/BK, as a Hero herself, or Sniper/Paladin. The latter two will want All+2.

Noire can be a Sniper with any support, or a BK with a Berserker/Hero/BK support. Given how your team is looking, Sniper is probably going to be needed to fill in a hole (Owain, maybe).

Nah will inherit Axefaire and be either a Hero or General, depending on whether her husband wants Spd. She'll need to marry a Galeboy (Morgan seems to be a good option, unless you want him as a BK to support someone else).

Yarne will either be a Berserker or Sage. He won't be fabulous at either, but that's the price you pay for versatility.

Morgan himself will depend on mods, but he'll likely just be really good filler. He's your best option for taking Nah (depending on Inigo), and should also make a nice BK, which are in high demand.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

Oh whoops! OliviaXLibra is the one I went with. Again, thanks for all the help! Do BKs function as supports as well as leads? Also, are they used over Snipers because of their Movement ranges?

[Czar_Yoshi]

BKs make good supports and leads. Reasons to choose them over Snipers include higher Mov, higher Spd, and better pairup bonuses (+3/3/1 Skl/Spd/Mov, instead of +3/3/2 Str/Skl/Def- +Def is relatively useless in Apo, while +3 Spd is coveted since it meshes extremely well with common mods).

[IcyFlame57]

Hey guys, need a quick help decide to pair up with the people I have left:

Women:

Miriel

Cherche

Panne

Men:

Donnel

Kellam

Gregor

Libra

Virion

[Czar_Yoshi]

For best all-round, use Virion x Cherche, Gregor x Miriel and Libra x Panne. If you're OK with throwing Gerome under the bus to make Yarne better, swap Virion and Libra.

[IcyFlame57]

For best all-round, use Virion x Cherche, Gregor x Miriel and Libra x Panne. If you're OK with throwing Gerome under the bus to make Yarne better, swap Virion and Libra.

Okay, I can understand Gregor X Miriel, but could you explain to me about Libra X Panne and Virion X Cherche?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yarne comes with Berserker and very good physical mods, so he's cut out to be a hard support. What he's missing are some good +Hit skills, since Berserkers have really bad Hit. Libra offers Hex and Anathema for a total of +25, Virion offers Hit+20 and Prescience for a total of +35.

Gerome is going to be a hard support too, but he doesn't come with any of the things Yarne does, so he needs it all from his dad. His first priority is to get a Faire and an ending class, and Virion offers him Bowfaire for his Warrior, in addition to some nice +Hit skills.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

So using these pairs (Avatar is +Mag/-Def):

ChromXSumia

SullyXDonnel

LissaXHenry

MaribelleXLon'Qu

MirielXGregor

CordeliaXStahl

TharjaXGaius

NowiXVaike

PanneXRicken

ChercheXVirion

OliviaXLibra

FeMUXYarne

I came up with:

Lucina(DF) X Morgan(GM)

Cynthia(Paladin) X Inigo(BK)

Kjelle(Paladin) X Gerome(Warrior)

Severa(Hero) X Laurent(Berserker)

Noire(Sniper) X Owain(Sage)

Nah(General) X Brady(Sage)

Robin(+Mag/-Def GM) X Yarne(Berserker)

I'm struggling to find more places to fit BKs in. Maybe I should be pairing the children differently? Also, I haven't paired off Robin yet so RobinXYarne isn't set in stone if it seems like Morgan would be better suited somewhere else, although I was under the impression that Yarne as a father provided more stats than usual for Morgan.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Never run without a Faire unless you're Lucina- Inigo shouldn't go BK without Stahl or Chrom. Libra!Inigo is usually a Sage, Dread Fighter or Hero.

+Mag really doesn't mesh with what Yarne wants to do- he should be physical. +Mag/-Def fits far better with the likes of Brady and Inigo. For comparison, if you swapped Yarne and Owain, Noire could be another BK for you. If Ricken!Yarne's already set in stone, though, he's still going to have the best mods around for Morgan, so you might as well take them (they just aren't as good as they could be).

General and Sage don't mix well, Nah should consider Hero instead (that's her usual option for going with magical Galeboys).

Probably should make Nah a Bow Knight

She doesn't have Bowfaire though.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

The first generation marriages are actually already in place, unfortunately. I'm decently happy with them anyway. MU is still unmarried though so it doesn't have to be Yarne!Morgan. The 2nd generation aren't actually married though so I was just hoping to fit the children together.

Is there just a better choice for a +Mag/-Def MU with the other first generation pairings locked in place?

[IcyFlame57]

Yarne comes with Berserker and very good physical mods, so he's cut out to be a hard support. What he's missing are some good +Hit skills, since Berserkers have really bad Hit. Libra offers Hex and Anathema for a total of +25, Virion offers Hit+20 and Prescience for a total of +35.

Gerome is going to be a hard support too, but he doesn't come with any of the things Yarne does, so he needs it all from his dad. His first priority is to get a Faire and an ending class, and Virion offers him Bowfaire for his Warrior, in addition to some nice +Hit skills.

What skill and class should the two kids be? Also, could Gregor X Cherche work out?

[IcyFlame57]

Gregor!Gerome isn't good enough to leave Laurent without a good dad (Libra is filler, Virion, Donnel, and Kellam are bad on Laurent).

Libra!Yarne @ Zerker

~Hex

~Anathema

~Axefaire

~Aggressor

~Limit Breaker

Virion!Gerome @ Warrior

~Bowfaire

~Aggressor

~Hit Rate +20

~All Stats+2/Dual Support+/Deliverer

~Limit Breaker

Alright, thank. But is there another skill that can replace aggressor, I don't have the DLC for the Dread Fighter

[Moblin Major General]

Warrior grants Counter, that's good if Gerome can't dodgetank.

[Czar_Yoshi]

The first generation marriages are actually already in place, unfortunately. I'm decently happy with them anyway. MU is still unmarried though so it doesn't have to be Yarne!Morgan. The 2nd generation aren't actually married though so I was just hoping to fit the children together.

Is there just a better choice for a +Mag/-Def MU with the other first generation pairings locked in place?

I'd just stick with Yarne. He's still the best with what you've got.

What skill and class should the two kids be? Also, could Gregor X Cherche work out?

Yarne is a Berserker with LB, Axefaire, Hex, Anathema, and since you don't have Agg, All+2. Gerome is a Warrior with LB, Bowfaire, Hit+20, Prescience, and All+2 (also because no Agg).

Warrior grants Counter, that's good if Gerome can't dodgetank.

Counter a) doesn't do anything on Apo (the only thing worth optimizing for aside from Lunatic+ nogrind), b) doesn't do anything in the back (where Gerome should be spending 100% of his time), and c) is very bad on player units. Since it's essentially a 1-for-1 damage trade, using it is only advantageous when the player's team has a higher total HP pool than the enemy, which rarely happens due to massive enemy numbers. Additionally, the enemy must lose their entire force to fail, while the player needs only lose one unit, so deliberately taking large amounts of HP off a single player unit is a very risky strategy. And since enemy units and player units tend to have similar HP stats, it's very difficult for Counter to meaningfully contribute across multiple battles, which player units (especially tanks who would fight on EP) are expected to be able to do.

There are times when it can be useful- very, even, in situations where the player is significantly weaker than the enemy. However, every enemy strong enough to pose that kind of threat to a minmaxed unit is already immune to Counter, and since Counter comes very late in a class usually done later on, it's extremely rare to have it in those scenarios.

[jabberish]

Looking for some assistance in finalizing the children for my next playthrough. I'll be playing on hard with the intention of doing everything, and getting use out of everyone.

This is what I've got so far from reading this thread, with Libra and Kellam not seeing any use:

Olivia + Frederick
Cordelia + Lon'qu - How much would Severa lose with Gregor as the father? I really like Cordelia/Gregor's support, but it's not that big of a deal.
Sumia + Chrom
Sully + Donnel
Tharja + Gaius - I intend on making Noire either a Sniper or a Bow Knight. Is Gaius the best father for that?
Nowi + Vaike
Maribelle + Virion
Panne + Stahl
Cherche + Henry
Lissa + Ricken
Miriel + Gregor

Is there anything you'd swap, or any fathers that aren't as good as Kellam/Libra would be?

Also, how do proc skills work with each other? Would 50 skill Ignis, Astra and Aether mean a 0% chance of regular hits, or are they checked one-by-one?

[Dwlr]

Looking for some assistance in finalizing the children for my next playthrough. I'll be playing on hard with the intention of doing everything, and getting use out of everyone.

This is what I've got so far from reading this thread, with Libra and Kellam not seeing any use:

Olivia + Frederick

Cordelia + Lon'qu - How much would Severa lose with Gregor as the father? I really like Cordelia/Gregor's support, but it's not that big of a deal.

Sumia + Chrom

Sully + Donnel

Tharja + Gaius - I intend on making Noire either a Sniper or a Bow Knight. Is Gaius the best father for that?

Nowi + Vaike

Maribelle + Virion

Panne + Stahl

Cherche + Henry

Lissa + Ricken

Miriel + Gregor

Is there anything you'd swap, or any fathers that aren't as good as Kellam/Libra would be?

Also, how do proc skills work with each other? Would 50 skill Ignis, Astra and Aether mean a 0% chance of regular hits, or are they checked one-by-one?

Where is your avatar going, seems to be missing from that list.

If you like Gregor Cordelia, use it, you don't need to 'optimize' anything to beat anything Lunatic + nor Apoth it's just a matter of having a potentially slightly easier time, but if it costs you something you like IMO it's not worth it. It also sort of depends on what roles you're going to use what for Libra can give Hex and Anathema if you want support skill

They're checked individually, but even if they were added together it wouldn't have came out to 100%. Drop Astra and just take Aether and Ignis if you're wanting to proc stack

25% Aether chance then 12% of the remaining 75% for Astra and so on.

Should end up with:

25% Aether

9% Astra

33% Ignis

33% Normal

Edited January 24, 2016 by Dwlr

[jabberish]

I'd like for everyone to be somewhat unique, and to bring their own strengths to each fight. That, and it'd be nice if they all stayed within their (canon?) class, i.e., Nowi/Nah as Manaketes, Noire as a Sniper/Bow Knight, Sumia/Cordelia as Dark Fliers/Falcon Knights, etc...

That's mainly what I'm going for, which is why I'd like to at least optimize the mother/father pairings - to make up for the sub-optimal classing. And I'm planning on marrying Lucina with a +mag/-def MU.

[Dwlr]

I'd like for everyone to be somewhat unique, and to bring their own strengths to each fight. That, and it'd be nice if they all stayed within their (canon?) class, i.e., Nowi/Nah as Manaketes, Noire as a Sniper/Bow Knight, Sumia/Cordelia as Dark Fliers/Falcon Knights, etc...

That's mainly what I'm going for, which is why I'd like to at least optimize the mother/father pairings - to make up for the sub-optimal classing. And I'm planning on marrying Lucina with a +mag/-def MU.

Well you can kind of check their 'canon' class in the Future Past to decide which way they're supposed to go on the branch. I keep my characters in their native classes lines as well and used the DLC to determine the class for the children characters.

Noire - Sniper

Cynthia - Falcon Knight

Nah - Manakete

Yarne - Taguel

Inigo and Severa - Hero

Laurent - Sage

Brady - War Cleric

Owain - Swordsmaster

Kjelle - General

Gerome - Wyvern Lord

If they start promoted I end them in that class and then Donnel I just stuck as a Dread Fighter, but I digress, but my pairings are far from optimal on my main file and they still all work fine. (I go for haircolors if I can't get the official hair colors I just make judgement calls)

If you're going to keep them in their native classes that is probably going to change some of the pairings you want. If you're running Swordmaster Owain, you might not want to go with Ricken x Lissa for example.

For myself I just can't take Owain out of Swordmaster so there's no need to use somebody like Virion or Ricken to get Bowfaire for me personally.

Yarne isn't going to have much going for him as a Taguel, no faires or anything like that, so I'd say screw him over and give him the leftovers. Giving him Hex and Anathema might not be a bad idea since he simply isn't going to make that useful of a lead unit as a Taguel no matter how you slice it. You could stick him in the back with Beastbane and give him some sort of niche support role. IMO he'd be a good use of Libra if you aren't going to use him elsewhere.

You asked about Severa and Gregor with Gregor you can give Severa Axefaire if you want to use Axes as a Hero.

It'd help if you actually post what classes you're going to end your children as instead of speculating. I mean Brady is a War Cleric, by his DLC class so if you're following that, it's going to have an impact on what you might want. You could even attempt to use Chrom for Maribelle to help Lucy's Mag mod for your +Mag Morgan. Chrom gives hit-rate +20 for Axes if you wanted or you can prioritize getting him Axefaire or something and use Henry there and use Vaike for Cherche. After all Nah is going to have some problems being a Manakete (comparatively). You could use Manakete Nah with Morgan to make use of the +Str and +Mag pair-up bonuses for Ignis since you're going to end up as a Grandmaster Morgan keeping your native classes and all.