PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Limiz]

No problem, I always try to help other when I can. I feel funny and warm inside whenever I do.

Just make sure that Nah get Axefaire pass down Vaike otherwise she won't have that extra power and Noire get Sol because it will save you when you're grinding or not. I can help with skillset if you don't already have that in mine or going with the flow.

Other than that, Chao. : ]

​

Hi again :)

Would be very happy to hear some of your thoughts on skills for both the parents and the children, because now that I have leveled a bit I don't really know what to pass down from the parents except galeforce, Vaike!Nah Axefaire and Gaius!Noire sol.

This was the setup I was going for because this looked so fun and good, so thanks again for this:

Chrom x Olivia

FeMU x Inigo

Lissa x Ricken

Sully x Donnel

Miriel x Gregor

Sumia x Henry

Cordelia x Virion

Tharja x Gaius

Nowi x Vaike

Cherche x Stahl

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Panne x Libra

Lucina x Morgan- Great Lord or Paladin x Hero

Cynthia x Brady - Dark Flier x Sage

Nah x Owain- Hero x Sage

Noire x Gerome- Sniper x Warrior

Kjelle x Yarne- Falcon Knight or Paladin x Berserker

Severa x Laurent x Wyvern Lord x Berserker or Dark Flier x Sage

Thanks.

Fred!Gerome isn't that great because Gerome only inherits Pavgis and Wyvern overlap. Only old GameFAQs thread list it as a "S-rank" pairing because Fred gives Gerome brown hair and Luna/DG+. Yarne can do better with Virion, Stahl, or Libra and Kellam should be single. You don't need +Def for the campaign in Hard because Pair-Up and Nosferatu are overpowered so might as well run +Spd for Morgan and to make Female Avatar faster. Oh, and Cynthia uses Chrom better than Inigo because she grabs Aether. Magical Inigo (Libra/Henry/Ricken) is miles better than Bowfaire Assassin Chrom/Stahl!Inigo.

Thank you for the tips :)

And sorry for the late reply :/

Edited May 21, 2016 by Limiz

[amiabletemplar]

I miss threads like this one, now that you can buy almost every skill you want in Fates, optimization is no longer needed. How boring.

Anyway it's been a while since I played good ol awakening, and I was wondering if chrom!inigo is still considered to be the most optimal inigo for a physical build, more precisely a hero. btw whatever happened to czar_yoshi? his opinions were cool.

I can't speak for everyone, but Chrom!Inigo still has all the advantages I remember hearing about before: great physical class options (Zerker, BK, Hero), all the Faires he could ever want (naturally Axe & Sword, Chrom gives Bow too), access to two great proc skills, and best of all, Rightful King. His weaknesses, as far as I can tell, are that his caps are spread pretty much evenly (the biggest bonus is +3 Spd/Skl; several other dads give you bigger bonuses to either Str or one/both of those stats), and that with Rightful King added to the mix it becomes harder to pick just 5 skills (in Pokemon they call it "four moveslot syndrome," hah.)

I'd assume a set like GF, LB, Agg, RK, Luna. For a pure Apo-focused build that seems better, but for other stuff, maybe Axefaire instead of Agg. I dunno, I'm not well-versed enough to be able to make those calls. Chrom!Inigo hits 55 Spd as a Hero with LB, so rallies+tonic+baseline support bonus (from stats) gets him to 70 Spd. His marriage partner must thus have a class Spd pairup bonus of at least +3 in order to ensure he hits the 75 breakpoint, but that's easily doable--BK being among the better choices (but Hero, Falcon Knight, or Assassin are all valid options too). Sadly, Brides do not provide a sufficient Spd bonus. (Alternatively, if you just want to hit the 69 Spd point, it doesn't matter what his ladylove's class is, so that may be a perk.)

So, as for "best"? I honestly don't know. As for "very good"? Absolutely--Chrom!Inigo is an excellent physical unit with a variety of class options, strong skills, and no serious weaknesses. Playing him as a Hero means focusing a bit more on proc damage, since with tonic, Rally Spectrum+Heart, LB, and basic support bonus, he'll have an 80% chance of Luna procs. Give hm a girlfriend with a class that gives both Spd and Skl bonuses (BK or Hero) and you're looking at 85%, plus another 4 with Rally Skill. With Brave weapons and doubling your enemy, this gives a (binomial) expected value of E=n*p=4*.85=3.4 Luna procs every time he attacks, and a ~98% chance of at least two procs (or 4*.89 = 3.56, 99.5% chance of getting at least 2 procs per round with a Brave weapon). Maybe not "best," but those numbers are hard to argue with.

Edit:

Also, as for Czar_Yoshi, he may not have posted here recently, but he has at least logged in recently, so he's probably fine. Most likely just busy and playing Fates! (Given his listed age and the current time of year, he's probably been occupied with college stuff. You could always send him a PM to ask how he's doing.)

Edited May 21, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[makuroh]

@amiabletemplar

I see, thanks for the reply!

I was wondering if Chrom is overall the better choice but it seems that Chrom does as good as Stahl though, minus RK and extra point to str rather than speed, and I never use RK anyway outside of no DLC runs, I rather procstack, so I think I'll marry Olivia with Stahl so I can free Chrom for Sumia and then marry sumia!Lucina to MaMu. The speed problem can be fixed by marrying Inigo to Vaike!Hero!Nah. yes i know that cursed fourslot syndrome, i am a competitive pokemon player after all.

So the setup for my stahl!Inigo will most likely be GF, AGG, LB, luna and astra/SF/AF.

Another thing who is better for magic!severa, Ricken or Libra? I don't mind the class overlap with dark mage, she is going to marry either lonqu!Laurent or virion!Brady.

Thanks in advance!

Edited May 22, 2016 by UdoGudo

[amiabletemplar]

@amiabletemplar

I see, thanks for the reply!

I was wondering if Chrom is overall the better choice but it seems that Chrom does as good as Stahl though, minus RK and extra point to str rather than speed, and I never use RK anyway outside of no DLC runs, I rather procstack, so I think I'll marry Olivia with Stahl so I can free Chrom for Sumia and then marry sumia!Lucina to MaMu. The speed problem can be fixed by marrying Inigo to Vaike!Hero!Nah. yes i know that cursed fourslot syndrome, i am a competitive pokemon player after all.

So the setup for my stahl!Inigo will most likely be GF, AGG, LB, luna and astra/SF/AF.

Another thing who is better for magic!severa, Ricken or Libra? I don't mind the class overlap with dark mage, she is going to marry either lonqu!Laurent or virion!Brady.

Thanks in advance!

The bigger issue with Libra!Severa is that the overlap is double super compounded. That is, you have the Dark Mage overlap--sure, a little overlap happens. But out of the two class sets she does gain, she only gets ONE worthwhile new end class, Sage. She also gets no new or interesting proc skills. Honestly, the only thing I can see that vaguely recommends Libra!Severa is being able to easily inherit one of the best recovery skills (Renewal) without grinding for it in a shitty class (and +1 Skl, I guess). That's it. In every other way, Libra!Severa is straight-up inferior to Ricken!Severa if--and I stress that if--you're prioritizing her father over any other choices. In the end, the determining factor will probably be that Ricken is a good Mag dad for basically everyone--so you might be tempted to give him to someone else instead. In which case, Libra is probably the next best choice--Henry is roughly equivalent, but provides better Str for kids that would want the Berserker inheritance (or Axefaire, for daughters).

Edit:

Also I can second Not_The_NSA's recommendation of Fred!Inigo. He's perfectly cromulent in my current file.

Edited May 22, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[makuroh]

The pairing fell off it's pedestal near the end of 2013-beginning of 2014. With an actual challenge map, pairings and (garbage) builds like Lon'qu!Severa @ Sorcerer, Donnel!Owain @ Hero, and Fred!Gerome @ WL were being torn apart left and right. Chrom!Inigo is fine, but I rarely see someone say "Chrom!Inigo is great because of RFK Lethality" like some people use to three years ago. Oh, and people realized how good magic Inigo is so Libra!Inigo is almost the norm.

If you want physical Inigo, Fred is better just because of low in demand he's as a dad and he gives Inigo the option to go Wyvern Lord. This means Stahl can go to a kid who uses his classes better and Chrom can go to Sumia.

...People actually used LQ!Sevvy for sorcs? I thought the niche of that pair was so Sevs could reach 75 speed as WL with lancefaire and dodgetank Anna in Apo.

And is funny that you mention that, I was going exactly through the old boards in gamefaqs just yesterday and I was laughing so bad at the things we were saying back then, btw I think I even saw you there a couple of times.

Hmm, I thought Inigo, Severa, and maybe Owain were the kids that used Stahl the most, or were you talking about BFwarrior!Gerome?

@amiabletemplar

Well looks like Ricken wins, should have figured, that means Libra goes to Lissa.

Also, which are your current pairs? Are you doing a specific run?

Edited May 22, 2016 by UdoGudo

[Sil3nt 4sh]

Hi again :)

Would be very happy to hear some of your thoughts on skills for both the parents and the children, because now that I have leveled a bit I don't really know what to pass down from the parents except galeforce, Vaike!Nah Axefaire and Gaius!Noire sol.

This was the setup I was going for because this looked so fun and good, so thanks again for this:

Chrom x Olivia

FeMU x Inigo

Lissa x Ricken

Sully x Donnel

Miriel x Gregor

Sumia x Henry

Cordelia x Virion

Tharja x Gaius

Nowi x Vaike

Cherche x Stahl

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Panne x Libra

Lucina x Morgan- Great Lord or Paladin x Hero

Cynthia x Brady - Dark Flier x Sage

Nah x Owain- Hero x Sage

Noire x Gerome- Sniper x Warrior

Kjelle x Yarne- Falcon Knight or Paladin x Berserker

Severa x Laurent x Wyvern Lord x Berserker or Dark Flier x Sage

Thanks.

Thank you for the tips :)

And sorry for the late reply :/

Chrom- Aether (to Lucina)

Rightful King (to Inigo)

Olivia- Galeforce

FeMU- Galeforce

Inigo- Rightful King

Lissa- Galeforce

Ricken- Luna

Sully- Aegis

Donnel- Counter

Miriel- Dual Support +

Gregor- Vantage

Sumia- Luna

Henry- Counter

Cordelia- Galeforce

Virion- Tomefaire or Delieverer

Tharja- Luna

Gaius- Sol

Nowi- Lancebreaker

Vaike- Axefaire

Cherche- Dual Support +

Stahl- Bowfaire

Maribelle- Galeforce

Lon'qu- Vantage

Panne- Swordbreaker

Libra- Slow Burn

Skillset for Apo is usually as follow;

Males Lead

[Limit Breaker, Aggressor, Proc, Faire, Galeforce]- Morgan, Inigo, Owain, Brady

Males Hard Support

[LB, Aggressor, Hit Skills, Faire, Hit Skill/AS +2/Armsthift]- Yarne, Gerome, Laurent

Females

[LB, Galeforce, Faire, Proc, AS +2/Armsthift]- Cynthia, Kjelle, Noire, Severa

Female Hard Support

[LB, Faire, Proc, Filler (Delieverer), AS +2/Armsthift]- Nah

Lucina

[LB, GF, Proc, Aether, Dual Strike +]

I hope this is helpful for you.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Sil3nt 4sh

[Limiz]

@ Sil3nt 4sh

Thank you yet again, this was very helpful.

[SSJDennis]

How much speed do we need again? I always forget... Anyway, made a new setup;

Nah got the leftovers. Gregor does provide Troubadour, which is the main reason. She already has Tomefaire. Add Demoiselle, Limit Breaker, All Stats+2(??) and Deliverer(or Armsthrift?)

[Vascela]

You don't get any doubling benefits passed 75. If you can't (or can't reasonably) hit that, 69 is the next best (you only miss out on doubling Anna and the Sniper bosses).

For vengeance purposes, 62 doubles the mire flier boss and 57 doubles the mire fliers. For wave 0 setups, the general boss has 50 and the others have 40. You may or may not want to double those (so you may or may not do full bonuses here).

[amiabletemplar]

...People actually used LQ!Sevvy for sorcs? I thought the niche of that pair was so Sevs could reach 75 speed as WL with lancefaire and dodgetank Anna in Apo.

And is funny that you mention that, I was going exactly through the old boards in gamefaqs just yesterday and I was laughing so bad at the things we were saying back then, btw I think I even saw you there a couple of times.

Hmm, I thought Inigo, Severa, and maybe Owain were the kids that used Stahl the most, or were you talking about BFwarrior!Gerome?

@amiabletemplar

Well looks like Ricken wins, should have figured, that means Libra goes to Lissa.

Also, which are your current pairs? Are you doing a specific run?

Nothing specific. I'm actually quite new to the optimization side of things. I just screwed up stuff on my next-most-recent file (like not making sure all my galeboys got GF before recruiting them...) so I decided, "Hey, I'm gonna go look for *advice* this time!" But there's a lot of old or even intentionally false info floating around out there (like recommending Fred for every child), and this thread proved very helpful. After watching and reading for a while, and after poring over the two Fire Emblem wikis' info (some of which is lamentably inaccurate...) and the SF info pages (which are, AFAICT, all completely accurate), I saw some questions I felt I could answer. Making due deference to more-experienced posters, of course.

My current file has:

+HP/-Lck FeMu!Lucina (the asset/flaw is a lamentable mistake, but one I had already too-thoroughly committed to before seeking real advice)

Chrom!Morgan

Stahl!Owain

Fred!Inigo

LQ!Severa

Henry!Cynthia

Donnel!Kjelle

Gaius!Tharja

Vaike!Nah

Gregor!Yarne

Virion!Gerome

Libra!Brady

Ricken!Laurent

I play only intermittently, mostly while I'm trying to fall asleep or when I'm travelling, so I've had this file for several months now. Most of the pairings I've been completely satisfied with, some I'll change when I start again. Probably going to shuffle around a few, like going Virion!Yarne and Gregor!Laurent, and will try to find a way to get Gerome Berserker (probably via Henry, but that has its own issues). With this file, Donnel!Kjelle and LQ!Severa have been especially good thus far, and I love Crom/FeMU. The support dialogues are ridiculous, but many of their 'cutscene' interactions make so much more sense as a married couple. Lucina's ultra-versatility is also a huge plus, and (IMO) the Lucina/M Morgan support makes just a little more sense than anyone else's, because Lucina is the only other person Morgan can remember from his early life. Preparing for her possible death would be extremely likely to upset him!

All the mechanical bits aside, though, if there's anything I've learned from reading and occasionally contributing here, it's, "Everything is contextual." Few choices are truly "bad" (though *some* are--e.g. Sully!Lucina loses GF access without any significant returns, and Gregor!Inigo gets *no* new classes), but whether a given choice is better or worse often depends on what other choices you'll make, or what limitations it places on you. For example, marrying Chrom to the female Avatar means Sumia only has three possible husbands: Fred, Henry, and Gaius. But Gaius is in high demand for daughters that can get GF via class inheritance, so you only "really" have two choices. But then if you make a choice there (like how I chose Henry), *other* consequences arise (e.g. getting Gerome to have Berserker is difficult without paying some *other* cost.) So this thread exists more to evaluate probable/workable paths, rather than finding "optimal" ones.

Edited May 23, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[amiabletemplar]

Yarne, Laurent, & Nah can use him well also. Out of the 10 kids he can father (excluding Lucina, Morgan, & Cynthia), he only sucks as a dad for three of them: Kjelle, Noire, & Brady.

More to confirm (or correct) my thoughts on this than anything else, what are the flaws with Stahl as their father?

Kjelle and Noire I'd assume are partly due to the lost GF potential, though Kjelle's class inheritance from Stahl is...impressively bad (just Archer? ouch). Less sure about what (other than GF loss) makes Stahl!Noire a poor choice, which means I stand to learn something by finding out. :)

Speculating on Stahl!Brady, I'd assume it's more a matter of opportunity costs (that is, *not* getting Stahl for some other, better-fitting child) coupled with flat mods and a lack of good classes added (already has Cavalier, and Myrmidon/Archer are of little use to Brady as a Mag-focused unit).

[Vascela]

Stahl is for anyone who wants non-vengeance procs and archer tree. You say just archer as if Sniper wasn't one of the (if not -the-) best Apo class.

For anyone who already has the procs (or if they only wanted Luna and got that from the mother), then yeah, the kid only gets Sniper. But if we live in a scenario where your kid doesn't use Sniper as an end class (and/or there is no room for HR+20 on your skill pool), then Stahl is just a mod father. His mods aren't poor by any means, but if you only wanted mods you'd look elsewhere like to Virion or Lon'qu.

Kjelle and Noire want galeforce, sure. But there are instances where Noire doesn't even take galeforce (if you're running Gaius elsewhere like Gaius!Kjelle--then it's a matter of Donnel!Noire vs galeforceless!Noire). Then you have instances like Brady who love his mother very much. If you have something like LB/Agg/Luna/GF/Faire, then you're already opting out of HR+20, Astra, and/or Sniper as an ending class (although Stahl!Brady could run Sniper). Sitting on wishy washy mods with nothing earned from the father? Opportunity cost hits pretty hard.

When you only care about mods, Stahl isn't exactly someone's first choice. But if you care about Sniper, Lunastra, etc., then Stahl is your first choice.

[amiabletemplar]

Stahl is for anyone who wants non-vengeance procs and archer tree. You say just archer as if Sniper wasn't one of the (if not -the-) best Apo class.

For anyone who already has the procs (or if they only wanted Luna and got that from the mother), then yeah, the kid only gets Sniper. But if we live in a scenario where your kid doesn't use Sniper as an end class (and/or there is no room for HR+20 on your skill pool), then Stahl is just a mod father. His mods aren't poor by any means, but if you only wanted mods you'd look elsewhere like to Virion or Lon'qu.

Kjelle and Noire want galeforce, sure. But there are instances where Noire doesn't even take galeforce (if you're running Gaius elsewhere like Gaius!Kjelle--then it's a matter of Donnel!Noire vs galeforceless!Noire). Then you have instances like Brady who love his mother very much. If you have something like LB/Agg/Luna/GF/Faire, then you're already opting out of HR+20, Astra, and/or Sniper as an ending class (although Stahl!Brady could run Sniper). Sitting on wishy washy mods with nothing earned from the father? Opportunity cost hits pretty hard.

When you only care about mods, Stahl isn't exactly someone's first choice. But if you care about Sniper, Lunastra, etc., then Stahl is your first choice.

Understood on the Archer. I sometimes forget the significance of the Sniper, so that's my bad. When I said "only Archer," though, I more meant in the sense of Kjelle being able to get some really quite impressive breadth with other fathers (of course, Fred gives her nothing class-wise, which is obviously bad). Donnel, Henry, and Libra all able to give her 3 new class lines on top of her starting 4, and Donnel's set contains no overlap, either.

Thanks for explaining.

[Animaillusionaria]

quick question abot proc stacking

aether+luna >luna+ignis>luna+astra

my question is where would (if at all) ingis+ astra fit in here

and is astra even worth it in apo?

vengeance is excluded due to being different

[HadesRayne]

quick question abot proc stacking

aether+luna >luna+ignis>luna+astra

my question is where would (if at all) ingis+ astra fit in here

and is astra even worth it in apo?

vengeance is excluded due to being different

Short answer :

Ignis+Astra works in Apo, if you have the room. And Astra is only worth it if you have Luna or Ignis to supplement it.

Long answer :

Procstacking with Astra isn't unheard of-it's actually quite common on frontliners, coupled with Luna. With Ignis, it is less frequent due to the poor spread of the skill, but it is theoretically workable, in a hybrid class such as Grandmaster.

When you combine two proc with Skl% activation such as Sol, Luna and Ignis, the skill with the lower priority rate gets used very rarely, 25% proc rate at most, at 50 skl. Above that, while you could reach very high proc rates.

If you stack a Skl% proc and a Skl%/2 skill such as Aether or Astra things are different, the overall procrate being more reliable-with 70 skill (which is not too bad to reach), you have 81,50% chance to proc something.

If you only use a Skl%/2 proc alone, it is too unreliable to be effective-you'd hardly reach above 45% procrate at best.

And lastly, using a single Skl% proc is reliable, but procstacking is moreso.

While Aether+Luna beats the others, which other combination is the best ? Let's figure it out...

I ran some calcs using a spreadsheet, using unpaired +Str/-Def FemRobin with an unforged Brave Sword(56 Attack, 40 magic and 42 Skl) and Ignis/Swordfaire/GF (not counting LB) against a General with a 0 def mod. (50 Def), then a Valkyrie (30 Def)-it is more a proof of concept than anything else. This is on a single attack, hit and weapon triangle not included for simplicity.

With Luna & Ignis, the average damage obtained is 21,37 for the General, and 37,17 for the Valkyrie.

With Astra & Ignis, the average damage obtained is 14,53 for the General and 40,83 for the Valkyrie.

With Astra & Luna, the average damage obtained is 16,19 for the General and 39,17 for the Valkyrie.

The results ?

Luna is better when the enemy's defensive stat is high, Ignis and Astra when it is low.

However, if an enemy has high defense, you can always circumvent that problem-you do not field a single pair, often several, who covers eachother's weaknesses.

The conclusion ? In a typical scenario, Ignis and Astra together will serve you best. Otherwise, opt for Luna + Astra. If you do not have enough room for Astra, use Ignis or Luna alone.

The rallies and pairs in Apo can easily ensure a very high proc rate.

[amiabletemplar]

quick question abot proc stacking

aether+luna >luna+ignis>luna+astra

my question is where would (if at all) ingis+ astra fit in here

and is astra even worth it in apo?

vengeance is excluded due to being different

The fundamental problem is: Astra will generally do less damage (high-Def/Res enemies with Dragonskin, Aegis+, and Pavise+ means each hit is only 1/8th of normal damage), yet it has a higher priority than Ignis. You want to avoid stacking procs where the higher priority would mean lower damage.

Also, the only people who can get Ignis--Robin, Morgan, and (if applicable) Morgan's sibling--will always be able to get Luna, which is generally better for Apo. Luna works best against enemies that have high Def/Res, and that's exactly what you have in Apo. Astra works best against low-Def/Res enemies, where the "you deal half damage, several times" thing doesn't matter much. But when your opponents can already ignore 75% of incoming damage, hitting *bigger* is much more worthwhile than hitting a lot, if you have a choice between the two. Conversely, because Luna+Astra is not too hard to get (at least on child characters), many characters will be able to use it--so it's worth mentioning.

Edit:

Since I do not even remotely know the details, HadesRayne, would you clarify how this would be affected by the defensive benefits Apo enemies get? That is, how does Dragonskin etc. affect the end result?

Edited June 25, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[HadesRayne]

The fundamental problem is: Astra will generally do less damage (high-Def/Res enemies with Dragonskin, Aegis+, and Pavise+ means each hit is only 1/8th of normal damage), yet it has a higher priority than Ignis. You want to avoid stacking procs where the higher priority would mean lower damage.

Also, the only people who can get Ignis--Robin, Morgan, and (if applicable) Morgan's sibling--will always be able to get Luna, which is generally better for Apo. Luna works best against enemies that have high Def/Res, and that's exactly what you have in Apo. Astra works best against low-Def/Res enemies, where the "you deal half damage, several times" thing doesn't matter much. But when your opponents can already ignore 75% of incoming damage, hitting *bigger* is much more worthwhile than hitting a lot, if you have a choice between the two. Conversely, because Luna+Astra is not too hard to get (at least on child characters), many characters will be able to use it--so it's worth mentioning.

Edit:

Since I do not even remotely know the details, HadesRayne, would you clarify how this would be affected by the defensive benefits Apo enemies get? That is, how does Dragonskin etc. affect the end result?

Dragonskin reduce the damage of each hit, separately.

So, with Astra, you will be doing half damage of your already halved damage with every hit.

However, the damage scale between Astra and a normal hit is the same as usual. If I do 8 damage per hit factoring in Dragonskin (as an arbitrary example), Astra will do (8/2)*5=20 damage.

If Dragonskin wasn't factored in/present, I'd do 16 or 17 damage (numbers are always rounded down in Awakening), and I would do (16/2)*5=40 damage : that is, twice as much.

For Ignis and Luna, the bonus damage is added to your normal damage-this the damage you would do without Dragonskin. Then, this damage is halved.

Pavise and Aegis works exactly the same way as Dragonskin.

But keep in mind, you are looking at a team rather than a single pair. You should have a balanced amount of Pavise (swords and axes) and Aegis (tomes and bows) in your team, allowing you to alleviate some of that reduction.

The Secret Path's enemies sport quite unbalanced defenses-easily exploitable if you have a team with plenty of physical and magical firepower. The enemy with the most balanced and highest defenses is a boss Paladin with 62 Def and 57 Res.

While they are quite a few enemies with more in one defense (NS with 70 Def), they have their other defense much lower (46 Res for the very same NS).

Also, Ignis works best when the user is in a class with good, balanced offensive stats such as Grandmaster. Other theoretically usable classes would include DK, Dark Flier, Dread Fighter, Bride, War Monk/Cleric. Although this is mostly speculation on my part.

Edited June 25, 2016 by HadesRayne

[DaveCozy]

I was going to ask on the "y is Donnel h4t3d" thread, but I figured instead of continuing that, I'd ask here:

What makes Gaius!Noire + Donnel!Kjelle better than Donnel!Noire + Gaius!Kjelle? I'm thinking of doing a Lunatic run without using DLC until I beat the endgame, and I'd prefer to get Kjelle without the need of using Donnel at all until post-game (thus I was thinking of giving him to Tharja post-game since as of now I'm not planning on using her).

Edited June 27, 2016 by DaveCozy

[HadesRayne]

I was going to ask on the "y is Donnel h4t3d" thread, but I figured instead of continuing that, I'd ask here:

What makes Gaius!Noire + Donnel!Kjelle better than Donnel!Noire + Gaius!Kjelle? I'm thinking of doing a Lunatic run without using DLC until I beat the endgame, and I'd prefer to get Kjelle without the need of using Donnel at all until post-game (thus I was thinking of giving him to Tharja post-game since as of now I'm not planning on using her).

The short answer is that Donnel's mods are absolutely terrible, while Gaius' are excellent.

Kjelle can live with Donnel's mods thanks to her mods, as a Hero/Paladin/ 69 spd WL, while Noire takes Gaius to give her Galeforce, and is usable as a Levin Sword DK to use her magic, or as a BK.

Giving Kjelle Gaius as a dad makes her much speedier, allowing her to rock 75 speed WL or even General. But it screws Noire over.

Donnel!Noire is generally seen as worse because of her limited choices with Donnel as her father. She has 2 faires, and no easy way to make use of her magic, unlike Gaius!Noire. Although she could make a decent Bride/Sniper, I think it's her best role.

The last option is GF-less Noire, which plays similarly to Nah, married to a Galeboy. The're quite similar, but Noire having Luna to begin with gives her quite a few more options. A Tomefaire dad will allow Noire to use her magic. Gregor is a decent option-not in very high demand, and giving her Astra. I've also heard of Vaike and Frederick on her. Typically Sniper and Bride are used, but depending on the mods, you could get something out of BK.

[TheSilentChloey]

The short answer is that Donnel's mods are absolutely terrible, while Gaius' are excellent.

Kjelle can live with Donnel's mods thanks to her mods, as a Hero/Paladin/ 69 spd WL, while Noire takes Gaius to give her Galeforce, and is usable as a Levin Sword DK to use her magic, or as a BK.

Giving Kjelle Gaius as a dad makes her much speedier, allowing her to rock 75 speed WL or even General. But it screws Noire over.

Donnel!Noire is generally seen as worse because of her limited choices with Donnel as her father. She has 2 faires, and no easy way to make use of her magic, unlike Gaius!Noire. Although she could make a decent Bride/Sniper, I think it's her best role.

The last option is GF-less Noire, which plays similarly to Nah, married to a Galeboy. The're quite similar, but Noire having Luna to begin with gives her quite a few more options. A Tomefaire dad will allow Noire to use her magic. Gregor is a decent option-not in very high demand, and giving her Astra. I've also heard of Vaike and Frederick on her. Typically Sniper and Bride are used, but depending on the mods, you could get something out of BK.

Actually from what I read Gaius!Noire is meant to be a front line sniper not a bow knight so she can take advantage of long bows for apo. Could be wrong about that though.

[HadesRayne]

Why would she run Dark Knight with Levin Sword or Bow Knight when she has access to better classes in Dark Flier and Assassin/Bride?

Vaike!Noire is legit in no rallies/dlc since you can plow through Dragonskin/Counter enemies with her as a Sniper, otherwise she sucks if you're using rallies and Limit Breaker. Fred!Noire sucks; I think czar only recommended her once since he used her for his 100% Dual Strike team. If you're using DLC, Donnel!Noire is way better than both because Galeforce > one action per turn.

So, why wouldn't Gaius!Noire use Dark Flier ? Simple : no Tomefaire. Gaius!Noire only has Lancefaire to use in DF, who has not exactly stellar Str, and finding a reliable source of Shocksticks is kind of tough.

Mmoreover, Shocksticks lack the Levin's ranged ability, and lances aren't the best in Apo (as you'll face primarily lances and axes, you'll most often be disadvantaged). So DF is inferior to DK in that case.

Bride is a good option for basically every Noire, since she starts with Bowfaire. If you want to use her magic offensively, you'll find yourself limited by the exact same problem as DF. However, Bride is still good if you don't care about her magic much.

Assassin isn't bad, but kinda weak in terms of strength, has overkill spd (Gaius!Noire has 75 spd with +0 support, if my memory is correct). Bow Knight Gaius!Noire sport 75 spd with Zerker support, and gets 8 movement, unlike Assassin-mobility is not an issue with BK.

Donnel!Noire isn't too bad-but she lacks options. You've got mostly Bride and Sniper to play with-not too bad. Then again, all Noires have these too classes as an option. Donnel!Noire is only superior due to Galeforce-if you'd rather pass up good mods for Galeforce, okay then.

Actions per turn aren't really an issue-there are only two timed rounds on Apo's Secret Path, and I thinks it has been calculated how much actions/turn you need to win. If my memory serves well, it's around 7/8. You'll always have, assuming full deployment, 7 pairs rounds + 5 Gale rounds (Inigo, Brady, Owain, Cynthia, Severa all always have GF), so 12 actions/turn without counting Gaius' and Donnel's GF, as well as Morgan's and Avatar's (if female).

As long as you have at least one Galeforce per pair, you're in the clear. And you have 3 Galeboys, and between one and two Gale-less girls. (Nah always, perhaps Noire depending on your build).

For the last commentaries, that I didn't know. I'll keep it in mind for my future posts.

Edited June 29, 2016 by HadesRayne

[HadesRayne]

Wtf, who needs Tomefaire when Gaius!Noire can procstack with Luna and Astra. And who care about Levin Swords and Shocksticks in Awakening?

We have 5 skills at our disposition.

In a typical Apo Galegirl set, it would look like this :

LB/GF/Proc/Faire/Filler.

If we count Luna as the proc and Astra at the filler, we need a faire to complete the set, as our set is LB/GF/Luna/Astra/Nothing. We could use AS+2, but it is directly inferior to a -faire, since +2 dmg/hit is less +5 dmg/hit.

And Gaius!Noire does not have Tomefaire, only Lancefaire which is... kind of subpar, as mentioned before.

Also, Levin Swords (along with Shocksticks and Bolt Axes) hit Res and Pavise. Levins work marvelously well against Thronie, among others. Even Bolt Axes are good against him. But the Shockstick's 1-range put it at a nasty disadvantage.

[acowpig]

Hey all, looking to tackle Apotheosis and I'm looking for feedback/suggestions on these pairings based on reading through the previous pages and what's considered relevant in today's endgame:

Sumia!Lucina

Chrom!Cynthia

Ricken!Owain

Lon'Qu!Brady

Stahl!Severa

Frederick!Inigo

Gaius!Noire

Donnel!Kjelle

Virion!Yarne

Gregor!Laurent

Henry!Gerome

Vaike!Nah

Lucina!Morgan

Also, what would a general idea of what the pairings between the children would be and their ending classes?

Thanks!

Edited July 2, 2016 by acowpig

[HadesRayne]

Hey all, looking to tackle Apotheosis and I'm looking for feedback/suggestions on these pairings based on reading through the previous pages and what's considered relevant in today's endgame:

Sumia!Lucina

Chrom!Cynthia

Ricken!Owain

Lon'Qu!Brady

Stahl!Severa

Frederick!Inigo

Gaius!Noire

Donnel!Kjelle

Virion!Yarne

Gregor!Laurent

Henry!Gerome

Vaike!Nah

Lucina!Morgan

Also, what would a general idea of what the pairings between the children would be and their ending classes?

Thanks!

You pairings are run-of-the-mill for the most part, but they should work out. A few things, though :

-Stahl!Severa's hair color is considered by many as atrocious. So you may want to check that out beforehand. She is also not the best if you are using Vengeance. But depending on your playing methods, you may end up getting more mileage from Luna than Vengeance.

-You may end up having to pair Inigo and Nah. Their support line is also considered by many (including me) as... quite bad. You may want to check them out on Youtube beforehand.

As for the pairings/classes :

Sumia is a Sage. Chrom is a Sniper. BK can work out if Chrom stays exclusively in the backline, but Snipeer allows him make great use of Sage dual strikes and his own Luna+Aether.

Lucina should be a Sniper with Zerker MaMU in the backline-you get 75 spd Sniper to double everything with longbows. and own with Luna+Aether. MaMU could also use Sage depending on his Asset/Flaw.

Gerome and Yarne marries a physical girl with Galeforce. They are both Zerkers.

Laurent marries a girl with Galeforce-you'll prefer magic as a Sage, but he is workable as a Zerker to support a physical one.

Nah marries a Galeboy. She'll be a Hero most likely.

Noire is Sniper or DK (Sage support), or BK (Zerker support). Bride is also workable with a magic Galeboy.

Depending on Avatar's Asset/Flaw, Morgan can use quite a few ending classes. WL with Zerker support, Valkie or DF with Sage support, Grandmaster... Have her inherit Axefaire from her dad to maximize her options.

Severa will have to play around with SF Hero, BF BK and possibly Paladin with a +Spd support behind. She can also use Bride with a magical Galeboy behind.

Inigo can use Hero, Paladin, BK, Warrior. He will need a +Spd support from his wife no matter his end class. Exception is Assassin.

Brady and Owain are Sages. Owain could use Dread Fighter if you put him with a Bride.

Cynthia is DF with Sage support, or Sniper with Zerk support.

[silvRboLt]

Hi, all!

I just thought I might ask for a bit of advice on each of these pairings. Gonna start on the DLC maps soon (after I recruit all the children, which I haven't yet.)

My pairings (and their soon-to-be finishing classes) are as follows:

Chrom!Great Lord/Sumia!Bride

Lissa!Valkyrie/Libra!War Cleric

Frederick!Great Knight/Cherche!Wyvern Lord

Sully!Paladin/Vaike!..probably Berserker or Hero.

Virion!Sniper/Maribelle!Valkyrie

Stahl!Paladin/Cordelia!Bow Knight

Miriel!Sage/Lon'qu!Assassin

Kellam!Assassin (it fits him, okay XD)/Panne!Taguel (I'd like to keep her and her son as actual taguels, pls.)

Ricken!Sage/Olivia!Dancer

Gaius!Assassin (I'm starting to really like the Assassin class..)/Tharja!Sorcerer

Nowi!Manakete/Donnel!Hero

MaMU!Grandmaster/Lucina!Great Lord

---------------------------------------------------

Owain!Dread Fighter/Nah!Manakete

Inigo!Dark Knight/FMorgan!Grandmaster

Brady!..I'm not sure/Severa!Hero

Kjelle!Great Knight/Gerome!Wyvern Lord

Cynthia!Dark Flier/Laurent!Sage (or maybe Sorcerer..haven't decided yet.)

Yarne!Taguel/Noire!Assassin

Edited July 9, 2016 by silvRboLt