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Hey guys, I'm new around these parts and just wanted to ask a couple questions about a few pairings that I've been reading about.

Virion!Severa vs Lon'Qu!Severa

Is the only difference between these that Virion gives more options to Severa (Archer and Mage trees), while Lon'Qu offers slightly better mods and the Myrmidon tree? If so, if I were to dedicate Severa to a specific role and not care about her having some added versatility, would I be right in assuming that marrying Lon'Qu to Cordelia would be the superior option? I just want to make sure before I make anything final.

Vaike!Gerome vs Stahl!Gerome

I've read a lot about these two, and basically what I understand is that Vaike offers immense power while Stahl trades some of that power for consistency and more options. I've also seen a lot of people use Vaike!Gerome as a pair-up with Severa, so my question is that does this specific pairing not care very much about the extra consistency that Stahl!Gerome offers? If I were to use Vaike!Gerome, would it be wise to give Stahl to Panne so that Yarne can get Archer tree access and some good mods?

Libra/Ricken and Owain/Inigo

These guys seem pretty interchangeable with each other so long as I want a magical Inigo. (which I haven't tried yet, so it's something i'm interested in) Is there any real benefit to using either combination? Both get access to vantage innately, so either one can do VV if their father is Libra (or Henry, but I wouldn't use Henry on Inigo as he'd lack Tomefaire) and both fathers give Tomefaire, which Owain has from the get-go but Inigo lacks. With that in mind is there any real reason to give Libra or Ricken to either one over the other?

That's all for now, I'll probably have more questions later.

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I think the main thing with Stahl!Gerome is that Stahl is in high demand.

I edited my last post to mention physical Sumia!Lucina

Edited by isetrh

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Stahl is a great father for a lot of kids, but I rarely see anyone recommend him as the best for anyone outside of Gerome. I don't know if this is just because Gerome is the best use of his genes, if it's because other children just want other fathers more than Stahl, or a combination of both. Or maybe I haven't looked hard enough, could be that too.

Edited by Diabeasty

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Wow. I was about to try to argue with your post, but now I see that you're absolutely right.

My Inigo needed Stahl because he was going physical. To go magic, he needs Libra. I didn't give him Libra because Owain needed Libra. If Owain didn't get Libra, he would have needed Henry. That was bad because Nah wanted Henry, because otherwise she would have taken Vaike... who was going to Gerome. Whoops.

I would switch to doing that if magical Inigo fit better on my team. My Kjelle would be forced to marry a magic boy, and my Severa would be out a Zerker support since Yarne is taken for 100% DS purposes.

Edited by isetrh

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I just want to know, why do people use Berserkers over Heros/Assassins? Sure, they may not have Swordfaire, but lets say it to someone like Gerome. He has access to Hero and Berserker, so why do people make him a Berserker instead of a Hero? That higher skill can really help with DS rates, proc rates, and hit chance.

Heck, i'd probably still use Frederick!Yarne as an Assassin even though he doesnt get Swordfaire/Bowfaire.

Assuming both classes have a Faire, the lead is physical and all attacks connect and do damage, upgrading to Berserker from Hero increases your maximum damage output by up to 48. Doing a challenge run? That's nothing to shake a stick at. It's not by any means necessary in No Holds Barred (because pretty much anything goes there), but that's a bigger damage increase than going from no proc to maximum Vengeance...

Hey guys, I'm new around these parts and just wanted to ask a couple questions about a few pairings that I've been reading about.

Virion!Severa vs Lon'Qu!Severa

Vaike!Gerome vs Stahl!Gerome

Libra/Ricken and Owain/Inigo

That's all for now, I'll probably have more questions later.

1) They're both functionally the same as Wyvern Lords. The main differences are that Lon'qu!Severa has Swordfaire for Hero and Avo+10 for dodgetanking, but Virion!Severa has Tomefaire for Sage/Dark Flier. The better one depends on availability and what you want Severa to be capable of as a secondary role (or primary one, if you don't like Wyvern Lords).

2) Vaike!Gerome's thing is having the highest Atk of any non-Morgan 2nd gen unit. Stahl!Gerome takes a bit of that Str (and more importantly, Berserker's +Spd bonus) and gives a massive Hit boost to Gerome (Vaike!Gerome's Hit is frequently a problem).

3) They're pretty interchangeable. You may get more mileage out of Ricken!Inigo though because he's got 2 more Skl than Owain and the Luna user can use that more.

Stahl is a great father for a lot of kids, but I rarely see anyone recommend him as the best for anyone outside of Gerome. I don't know if this is just because Gerome is the best use of his genes, if it's because other children just want other fathers more than Stahl, or a combination of both. Or maybe I haven't looked hard enough, could be that too.

Stahl just has a lot of stuff that a lot of units want, but nothing that can make or break a deal. He's kind of a universal filler dad, and outclassed in most every role he could take by someone else (or at least not a clear win). I suppose his main niche is having the highest Str of any Hit+20 dad (Yarne appreciates this) but Virion has better Skl than him making him automatic competition.

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So say if I were to marry Lon'Qu!Severa to X!Gerome, where X is either Stahl or Vaike, would passing up the extra damage and speed boost be worth the consistency granted by Stahl? Or would I just be better off marrying Severa to someone like Virion!Yarne in this case? This seems like something that could end up coming down to preference, I'd just like to get some opinions on what would be "better" as this is the biggest area of uncertainty I have with pairings in this game.

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Wyvern Severa does really want a Berserker support. I'd either go with Virion!Yarne or Henry!Gerome (Henry's Hex/Anathema will help with Gerome's Hit) for her.

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I was considering Henry!Gerome before, but I wanted to try out Henry!Nah. But If I had Vaike!Nah, and Henry!Gerome, I could maybe pass up magical Inigo for Stahl!Inigo(Who I've heard is his second best physical father, behind Chrom), which seems like a pretty decent deal. I could then move Ricken to Owain and give Libra to Brady (or vice-versa) which would solve the issue I was having of who to give Brady.

If I went with that, my kids would end up looking something like...

Sumia!Lucina!Morgan (+Skl/-Def on Avatar)

Cynthia and Lucina are obvious from the above

Stahl!Inigo

Ricken!Owain

Libra!Brady

Lon'Qu!Severa

Donnel!Kjelle

Gaius!Noire

Virion!Yarne

Henry!Gerome

Vaike!Nah

Gregor!Laurent

Thoughts? Most of this is pretty standard. Do you think there's any way I could squeeze out a better net benefit for a team using all the children? I haven't decided entirely on the pairings between them yet.

Edit: I suppose it would be good to mention that I have access to Limit Breaker and Aggressor, but not All+2 (yet).

Edited by Diabeasty

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Assuming both classes have a Faire, the lead is physical and all attacks connect and do damage, upgrading to Berserker from Hero increases your maximum damage output by up to 48. Doing a challenge run? That's nothing to shake a stick at. It's not by any means necessary in No Holds Barred (because pretty much anything goes there), but that's a bigger damage increase than going from no proc to maximum Vengeance...

Ok, i still dont get it. In my case, its Henry!Gerome paired with Gaius!Noire. Noire is a Sniper with Galeforce, LB, Luna, Astra/All+2, Bowfaire. If Gerome is a Hero, the pair gains 5% more DS%, which is a lot. And Gerome has a much higher hit rare, which is always good. They do lose a lot of strength, but they are still probably strong enough to ORKO everybody.

What would you do if you were in my position? Make Gerome a berserker or a Hero?

Edited by Waifu Severa

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I was planning on using Chrom!Cynthia x Ricken!Laurent and Henry!Nah x Lon'qu!Brady, but those two seem like they might be a little underwhelming compared to Kjelle x Inigo, Severa x Gerome, and my 100% DS pairs.

To fix this I was thinking of benching Nah x Laurent and running Chrom!Cynthia x Henry!Brady. I know usually Gerome is benched with Nah, but it's a lot more convenient to bench Laurent. This would mean Severa takes Lon'qu instead of Virion, because she might as well have 1 more Skill and I do not need a fourth Dark Flier or Sniper.

For use outside of Apo, Nah can do well as a Manakete. Frederick is free and gives her PavGis and Luna. Sol would be nice, but she can always use Renewal.

Laurent has three different options for dads. I'm not sure which one is best.

He could take Ricken and be a magic class like his mods suggest he should. Sage gives him the best power while Dread Fighter gives great pair-up bonuses. Sorcerer would be the middle ground between them. Dark Knight is like a weaker Sorc that gives a Movement boost.

Laurent could also take Kellam and be a General. The pair-up bonuses enhance Manakete's best stats, and the Dual Strikes are strong. Great Knight is weaker but gives a Movement boost.

If Laurent takes Virion he can be a Bow Knight, giving Nah the three stats Manaketes lack.

What do you guys think I should do? Am I overestimating the improvement that Henry!Brady would be for Cynthia over Ricken!Laurent? If I do go with this, which of those three fathers is best for Laurent? Thank you!

Edited by isetrh

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What would you do if you were in my position? Make Gerome a berserker or a Hero?

What would you do if u were in my position?

Probably a Hero. No need for overkill.

Laurent: I'd go Ricken. Dark Knights are one of my favorite classes outside of Apo (basically a Grandmaster on wheels with defensive pairup boosts), and he also has the BK option in case you decide you prefer that later.

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Great, thanks! I will do Ricken!Laurent.

I have one more question. Does Olivia need the Boots? Because FeMU and Noire both want them as Snipers with Assassin husbands.

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Oh okay... Do you think she would make better use of them than either Noire or FeMU? Never mind, that was a bad a question. Thanks again for helping me figure out this stuff. Edited by isetrh

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Is there any reason that having a Hero Vaike!Nah support Ricken!Inigo would be a bad idea? Valkyrie Henry!Nah would offer some extra magic from her pair-up bonuses but would that lead to an actual increase in damage when compared to Hero Nah? I'm not entirely sure how I would go about doing the math myself.

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Henry!Nah is capable of leading after her husband activates Galeforce, since she has Vengeance. If you're going for high damage output, having the Aggressor unit in back is useful, as is Vengeance. You can make a Crit build if you want to using Anathema, Wrath, and a +Crit forge instead of +Hit. I was told about the crit build by CY.

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Well, Vaike!Nah does get Luna, which might not be as good as vengeance but it's still good. However, then comes the issue that Inigo would be giving her +mag, which she wouldn't be able to take advantage of. So I see why that would be inefficient.

Here's something I'm thinking. Hero Vaike!Severa has at max 1 less str than Wyvern Lord Lon'Qu!Severa but gains 6 skill and 2 speed, and of course she misses out on the extra movement from Wyvern Lord and access to Lancebreaker. Severa can also inherit axefaire from Vaike, which is pretty awesome. I'm pretty sure Lon'Qu!Severa would make a better hero with swords regardless, but it's an interesting idea to me. Does anyone else have any opinions on this pairing? Does no lancebreaker hurt her enough to make it not worth doing if I want to use Lon'Quand Virion elsewhere?

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I didn't know that Vaike gave daughters Knight. Whoops. That makes what I said pretty useless besides the crit build thing.

Losing Lancebreaker is not a big deal, at all. Especially since Vaike lets her use Axes. She would have a hard time making room for Lancebreaker anyway.

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You could probably put the second pair of boots onto Severa to nullify the movement loss.

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Btw Czar, remember when i said about Morgan and Inigo's 100%DS build? Another way i can do it is have Morgan as a Sniper and Inigo as an Assassin/Sni[er, although this time only one of them needs All+2, which will be Morgan most likley. She does lose her swag as an Axefaire Helswath Hero though. Do you think i should do this?

Edited by Waifu Severa

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Is it just me, or does Inigo kinda... suck?

I mean his mother has the worst mod total of any unit in the entire game, with a net modifier of ZERO, while the average is 2.

Plus he's in the awkward situation of being the best physical fighter of the galeboys for no other reason that he's the only one who doesn't have a negative strength mod (ignoring Morgan). I compared my Chrom!Inigo to Vaike!Severa and he's inferior to her in pretty much every single category. He has no stats that are anything special. He seems to me to be the worst of the galeboys. Am I mistaken?

reposting this, it seems to have gotten lost.

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Disclaimer: I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Inigo's mods are fine, though still not amazing, when you consider that Luck, Defense, and Resistance aren't very important in Apo. When you take into account only offensive stats and Speed, +1 each in Skill and Speed doesn't look so bad compared to Lissa's +2 in Magic and -1 in Skill.

Also, mods are not the only thing that matters. Even before his father's class set (though like Owain he needs a proc), he has Swordfaire Assasin, Axefaire Hero, Axefaire Berserker, and Axefaire Warrior.

Of course he still can't match up to Brady's +2 Mag and +1 Skill with an innate full skillset.

Unrelated: Would Apo be possible without using any promoted classes (Manakete, Taguel, Dancer, Conqueror, Dread Fighter, Bride, and Lodestar count)?

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Disclaimer: I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Inigo's mods are fine, though still not amazing, when you consider that Luck, Defense, and Resistance aren't very important in Apo. When you take into account only offensive stats and Speed, +1 each in Skill and Speed doesn't look so bad compared to Lissa's +2 in Magic and -1 in Skill.

Also, mods are not the only thing that matters. Even before his father's class set (though like Owain he needs a proc), he has Swordfaire Assasin, Axefaire Hero, Axefaire Berserker, and Axefaire Warrior.

Of course he still can't match up to Brady's +2 Mag and +1 Skill with an innate full skillset.

Unrelated: Would Apo be possible without using any promoted classes (Manakete, Taguel, Dancer, Conqueror, Dread Fighter, Bride, and Lodestar count)?

If you're allowed to use those classes then yes, someone did a Manakete challenge run once.

If you're not (sorry, your wording is slightly confusing) then it would be an interesting experiment. Evidently rallies would be king.

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