PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[isetrh]

Yeah I'll do that, thanks.

[Alastor15243]

Hey, I just realized that of my eventual pairings on my justice cabal file, the only two children I have left to pair up are Noire and Laurent. Is that a problem? Is there a way I could make those two work?

Noire's dad is Gaius, obviously, but Laurent I haven't decided yet.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

The non-LB dodge tanks require WRB to reach the perfect dodge.

Really?

NS's Hit is 254, so that's the target Avo. No LB is the only restriction, but just for fun I'll also use Spotpass characters with no support ranks, and No DLC, and No Rallies. My units will be +Spd!Anyone@Assassin (Bowbreaker/Lucky 7/Avo+10/Patience/Tantivity) @Underdog Bow x Anyone with Charm@Swordmaster (Charm/Demoiselle/DSp+).

Spd: 46(base) +4(mods) +8(pairup) +2(tonic) =60

Lck: 45(base) +2(mods) +6(Pairup) +2(tonic) =55

Avo: 117(base) +50(Breaker) +20(Lucky 7) +10(Avo+10) +10(Patience) +10(Tantivity) +15(Underdog) +5(Charm) +10(Demoiselle) +10(pairup/DSp+) =257. That's still overkill. True, it won't work so well for Wave 5's enemies because L7 will have timed out by then, but adding back in Rally, DLC, better mods and support bonuses can fix that.

Hey, I just realized that of my eventual pairings on my justice cabal file, the only two children I have left to pair up are Noire and Laurent. Is that a problem? Is there a way I could make those two work?

Noire's dad is Gaius, obviously, but Laurent I haven't decided yet.

Noire can be a DF that lacks Tomefaire and it'll work out. Just give her something like Anathema or All+2 in the empty slot and she'll do fine.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[isetrh]

I have one pairing for which I am still unsure on the classes/skills.

Donnel!Kjelle @ Paladin

LB/GF/SF/Luna/Astra

Stahl!Inigo @ Warrior

LB/GF/BF/Luna/Agg

Should Kjelle take AS+2 over Astra to hit 69 Speed? Considering that I have three Bow users and only one Axe user besides Inigo, would it make any sense to give him AF instead of BF? Any other advice? Thanks!

I don't know how much this matters, but Kellam and Frederick are free. Lon'qu, Virion, Ricken, or Vaike could be made free without too much difficulty. Any other father is also fair game if there's a good reason to use him.

[Diabeasty]

Inigo naturally has access to Berserker, which would give you some extra speed and alleviate the need for AS+2 over astra. It's worth considering in my opinion. I'm not really sure how having a 'zerk as a lead plays out as I've never really done it outside of maingame. Another potential option is to make him a Hero I suppose.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Lead Berserker Galeboys are sort of a novelty- they aren't as bad as their rarity would suggest, but they also aren't as good as they look on paper. Basically, they still suffer from Hitrate issues when in the back just like a Hard Support Berserker, but Galeboys have a very full skillset with LB/Agg/GF/Proc/Faire and can't swap in Hit+20 very easily (though Stahl!Inigo does have it). Berserker's low Skl also hurts Luna's proc rate pretty badly, it's possible for it to drop below 60% after LB and Rally. The seemingly obvious solution is to swap Luna for Hit+20, but then you run up against the issue of having neither a proc on the lead, Agg on the support, or a solid DS rate, which can possibly lead to dropping a Galeforce now and then. Is it worth it to give your double Galepair one side that's massively weaker in exchange for the other side being as good as most dedicated leads? That's up to you.

Berserkers do have good Spd though. If you could get both Vengeance and Hit+20 on one (drop Axefaire), they'd be extremely effective in double Galepairs, since offensive Vengeance perfectly counters all of that set's flaws. Unfortunately only Morgan-M can pull this off.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Diabeasty]

Quick question, Berserker or Assassin for Gregor!Laurent supporting Sniper Gaius!Noire? I like the skl assassin gives but I doubt I can reach 100% DS with that pair, so the extra oomph from 'Zerker sounds nice. Plus Laurent gets anathema and hex(though i won't be using it) to alleviate Berserker's hit issues.

[isetrh]

I may or may not have internet access for the next two days.

So it sounds like Berserker is not really a good idea here. That brings me back to AF/BF Warrior x SF Paladin. Is this a good pair? And should Kjelle have AS+2 to hit 69 Speed or Astra? Thanks!

[Ownagepuffs]

Morgan is automatically better than everyone, that's a given.

Hard supports are very good in their own right. Why else do you think people pair Severa with Gerome? Severa is easily one of the best kids, while Gerome is usually at the bottom of the totem pole. Male Robin being able to support literally any female character with whatever class they made need most is a huge boon, in my opinion.

Untrue on Gerome. Specifically, Stahl!Gerome is like the perfect physical hard support unit, the only thing that separates him from the Galeboys is... Galeforce.

[isetrh]

Usually my questions get missed if they're at the end of the page, so I'm going to repost this.

I may or may not have internet access for the next two days.

So it sounds like Berserker is not really a good idea here. That brings me back to AF/BF Warrior x SF Paladin. Is this a good pair? And should Kjelle have AS+2 to hit 69 Speed or Astra? Thanks!

[Diabeasty]

Inigo and Kjelle both can also go swordfaire Assassin, so that's something to consider. I personally really like the assassin class but if I remember right you already have a lot of them.

Have you considered making Inigo a Hero? I think that would definitely be a viable option as well. Hero has some nice stats, and their pair up bonuses are pretty good. (Speed and Skill)

[isetrh]

Yeah, I don't think I want another Assassin. Thanks though. My Sniper/Assassin pairs compensate somewhat for the low Strength with good mods.

I didn't think about Hero. The Speed doesn't cause Inigo to reach any new thresholds, so that leaves him with 4 more Skill and 6 less Strength. Kjelle then can hit 69 Speed without AS+2 (she probably doesn't need to, but still sort of nice).

I just had a thought: people here seem to think Stahl!Gerome is godlike, so maybe if Stahl!Inigo doesn't need BF he could trade dads with Henry!Gerome? Win-win, Inigo gets Vengeance and Gerome gets to be perfect. Is Stahl!Gerome good paired with Wyvern Lord Severa?

[Diabeasty]

Untrue on Gerome. Specifically, Stahl!Gerome is like the perfect physical hard support unit, the only thing that separates him from the Galeboys is... Galeforce.

I'm not really saying Gerome is bad, more that he is typically lower priority than other children in most people's eyes. Thankfully Stahl is pretty low-demand and is literally perfect for him.

Yeah, I don't think I want another Assassin. Thanks though. My Sniper/Assassin pairs compensate somewhat for the low Strength with good mods.

I didn't think about Hero. The Speed doesn't cause Inigo to reach any new thresholds, so that leaves him with 4 more Skill and 6 less Strength. Kjelle then can hit 69 Speed without AS+2 (she probably doesn't need to, but still sort of nice).

I just had a thought: people here seem to think Stahl!Gerome is godlike, so maybe if Stahl!Inigo doesn't need BF he could trade dads with Henry!Gerome? Win-win, Inigo gets Vengeance and Gerome gets to be perfect. Is Stahl!Gerome good paired with Wyvern Lord Severa?

I would say give Henry to Owain and Libra to Inigo. Inigo doesn't get Tomefaire by default and Libra gives him Sage access so you might get more out of that.

Stahl!Gerome is pretty sweet, I've been using him as of late. He has a bunch of options, pretty much everything but 'Zerk really, so you can probably find something that works.

[isetrh]

I get why Libra!Inigo is amazing, but there wouldn't be enough TF Dark Fliers to go around if I made another boy a Sage.

I think I'll just go with Berserker Henry!Gerome after all. He's the only person who has room for Anathema and Hex, and the pair up bonuses are perfect for Severa.

[Alastor15243]

I'm not really saying Gerome is bad, more that he is typically lower priority than other children in most people's eyes. Thankfully Stahl is pretty low-demand and is literally perfect for him.

Stahl is far from what I'd consider "low-demand". He's useful for a ton of physical kids, and he's also considered by many to be Severa's best option.

[Diabeasty]

He's the middle ground for a lot of children. Almost every single one has a superior option to him. Gerome definitely makes the best use of his inheritance.

[Alastor15243]

He's the middle ground for a lot of children. Almost every single one has a superior option to him. Gerome definitely makes the best use of his inheritance.

Who's the better physical option for Inigo?

[Diabeasty]

Chrom!Inigo is literally the exact same thing but he trades 1 str for 1 spd. Freddy!Inigo has higher skill and Wyvern Lord, but is slow. Henry!Inigo has awesome stats and vengeance. Libra!Inigo can still run physical, his Str is only 1 less than his Mag.

Inigo has a lot of options that are almost all equally good, he doesn't really need Stahl more than any other kid in my opinion.

[Valzy]

Alright, I'm doing Panne X Gregor. Should I pass down Swordbreaker or Deliverer?

[Ownagepuffs]

He's the middle ground for a lot of children. Almost every single one has a superior option to him. Gerome definitely makes the best use of his inheritance.

Believe it or not, when it comes to physical Stahl is easily a top shelf choice. Astra/Luna, Sniper, Assassin, Paladin and faires he can use across literally all of his classes is not what you call middle ground. However most kids are either magical or want geylfurse which is why he isn't in demand.

Severa, Gerome and Inigo become murder machines with him as their dad since they are primarily physical units. But Severa and Inigo have options that are on par with Stahl, but don't really surpass him. Gerome however, does not. There is no other dad that gives him a sexier combination of Strength and Accuracy except perhaps Henry, but Henry does not give Gerome the same massive class selection that Stahl does.

Also, Freddy!Inigo is only 3 Spd behind the fastest Luna Inigo (Chrom!Inigo) and Czar showed he doesn't need anymore speed to be an effective dodge tank, so he's actually not as slow as one might think.

[Alastor15243]

Believe it or not, when it comes to physical Stahl is easily a top shelf choice. Astra/Luna, Sniper, Assassin, Paladin and faires he can use across literally all of his classes is not what you call middle ground. However most kids are either magical or want geylfurse which is why he isn't in demand.

Severa, Gerome and Inigo become murder machines with him as their dad since they are primarily physical units. But Severa and Inigo have options that are on par with Stahl, but don't really surpass him. Gerome however, does not. There is no other dad that gives him a sexier combination of Strength and Accuracy except perhaps Henry, but Henry does not give Gerome the same massive class selection that Stahl does.

Also, Freddy!Inigo is only 3 Spd behind the fastest Luna Inigo (Chrom!Inigo) and Czar showed he doesn't need anymore speed to be an effective dodge tank, so he's actually not as slow as one might think.

Freddynigo has a 0 speed mod, which isn't slow at all, it's just average, so sounds like he's the way to go.

[Diabeasty]

Believe it or not, when it comes to physical Stahl is easily a top shelf choice. Astra/Luna, Sniper, Assassin, Paladin and faires he can use across literally all of his classes is not what you call middle ground. However most kids are either magical or want geylfurse which is why he isn't in demand.

Severa, Gerome and Inigo become murder machines with him as their dad since they are primarily physical units. But Severa and Inigo have options that are on par with Stahl, but don't really surpass him. Gerome however, does not. There is no other dad that gives him a sexier combination of Strength and Accuracy except perhaps Henry, but Henry does not give Gerome the same massive class selection that Stahl does.

Also, Freddy!Inigo is only 3 Spd behind the fastest Luna Inigo (Chrom!Inigo) and Czar showed he doesn't need anymore speed to be an effective dodge tank, so he's actually not as slow as one might think.

Yeah, that's more or less what I was trying to say. When I said middle ground I meant "good, but not the definitive best." Really should have worded it better, my bad.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I just had a thought: people here seem to think Stahl!Gerome is godlike, so maybe if Stahl!Inigo doesn't need BF he could trade dads with Henry!Gerome? Win-win, Inigo gets Vengeance and Gerome gets to be perfect. Is Stahl!Gerome good paired with Wyvern Lord Severa?

He's good, yes... But his star set (Hit+20 Bowfaire Warrior) causes Severa to miss out on 75 Spd, ruining any chance of them ORKOing Anna at range. Go Hero/Assassin instead and they're doubling again, but then Gerome's massive Str isn't being put to as good of use. If Severa wants to marry any of Stahl's children, it should be Yarne, as he can do Hit+20 Berserker.

Stahl is far from what I'd consider "low-demand". He's useful for a ton of physical kids, and he's also considered by many to be Severa's best option.

"Considered by many" doesn't always give valid results, though. Stahl!Severa is certainly good, but given that she's effectively a Gaius!Noire clone with Hero and marginally better mods (and Gaius!Noire herself is already pretty similar to Donnel!Kjelle in terms of playstyle), I consider that pairing to be a waste of a unit with massive niche-filling potential. Basically, she doesn't bring anything new to your team. It's kind of an argument over whether to stack your team full of pairs who all do the same "most optimal strategy" or make most pairs slightly weaker, but with some unique ability that makes them more than an extra turn.

That's not saying that making your whole team the same is bad- my 100% DS team has 8 pairs that are practically identical clones of eachother (all 8-Mov, procless 100% DS physical single Galepairs bar Lucina/Owain who are double). But it's not the dominant strategy, nor should it be.

Alright, I'm doing Panne X Gregor. Should I pass down Swordbreaker or Deliverer?

Swordbreaker if you're not playing Apo, Lancebreaker if you're playing an Apo challenge run and marrying Yarne to Severa, Str+2 if you never plan on putting Yarne up front, and Deliverer if none of those apply.

[Ownagepuffs]

Bowfaire Warrior Stahl!Gerome doesn't even need to give Sevvy 75 Spd. Czar ran the calcs and showed even the highest Def enemy in the game (Nightmare Sniper @ 70 def) can't take his 4 hits.

Hey Czar, how viable is it for Severa to run Hex or Anathema to let Gerome perfect hit the high profile Avo targets (Thronie and Anna)?

[Alastor15243]

Hey, so I've worked out my pairings for my Justice Cabal after-game, and conveniently it looks like everything's fallen into place easily despite my use of Henry for Owain, a move I thought might be risky. Here are my current children plans (Bold ones were already done in the initial playthrough and thus are fixed):

Henry!Owain

Chrom!Cynthia

Sumia!Lucina

Lon'qu!Yarne

Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan

Frederick!Inigo

Virion!Nah

Vaike!Severa

Gaius!Noire

Donnel!Kjelle

Stahl!Gerome (thought I'd see what the recent hype is about, and there's a pretty decent case. Oh if only Stahl gave berserker)

Now all that's left are Brady and Laurent, and I've got Gregor, Kellam, Ricken and Libra left. I'm guessing the latter two are ideal, but I want some opinions from here.

Brady's gonna be a sage paired up with a Bowfaire Bride Nah, while Laurent's gonna be a sage supporting an AS+2 Dark Flier Noire. What do you guys recommend I do for these last two's parents?

Edited September 7, 2014 by Alastor15243