Irysa Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) Personally, I think it's just the developers being too lazy to give anyone besides plot important characters mention in supports. *snip* Rebecca is killable, and it's commonly believed that she is the mother of Wolt. Besides, even if Rath doesn't die when he falls in battle, he leaves the party. Wouldn't it be weird to talk about Rath in supports like he's present when he's left the group to recover quite some time ago? FE9 does this and adjusts supports for units that have died. Edited October 6, 2013 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 FE9 does this and adjusts supports for units that have died. FE9 is generally all around less lazy when it comes to storys and supports when it's concerning death though, so that's not big surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Your problem with Lyn/Rath seems more to be with fans who overhype it and whatnot than the actual pairing itself. Have you considered that, maybe, you are to more rational Lyn/Rath and Hector/Florina people as the less rational Lyn/Rath and Hector/Florina people are to you?Well like I said I'm just tired of any sort of discussion these "canonicity" debates bring. And people do get cranky when they're tired. And while you don't realize that you yourself are doing it, sometimes the various language you use DOES seem to imply that you are shoving Hector/Lyn in people's faces and you think it's canon. There's one example from a thread so far back I don't have the time to search for right now, but I think you mentioned something in the 20th FE artbook thread about how "if IS really wanted to put Hector's wives in order of canonicity then they'd have put Lyn before Florina" or something.I tend to be a blunt person, and I apologize if that does seem rather off-putting. It's just that I figure that, to keep it as short as I can, Hector/Lyn wouldn't have as much in FE7 as the pairs does if I.S. didn't intend for it to be what they themselves want to happen. (I do figure that topics like this are made with the intent to try to figure out what I.S. intends.) And if Rath/Lyn and Hector/Florina were, then they would get the "implied love interest" treatment. I know that neither pair is canon, though. But due to the lack of any romance between the latter two pairs (and interaction, in the case of the last pair mentioned), I just don't see the latter two happening. Your comments about "of course Lyn/Rath is just as canon as Sumia/Gaius", even if it is in strikethrough, doesn't make you more endearing because it's not at all needed to make your point and just looks like you're shooting down something you dislike when it wasn't necessary for your point.Yes. And I admit that was wrong of me. Once again, I do apologize. Edited October 7, 2013 by Just call me Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 You know, I think the writers were honestly split on how they wanted things to go. Either that, or the vagueness was intentional on their part. But, now that I think about it, you know how I initially wrote off Hector being in love with Florina because of the fact that their support growth isn't as high as his growth with Lyn's? Well now that I think about it, that could easily just be because Florina was shy with men, so it took her a while to really warm up to Hector, right? Maybe THAT'S why their growth is slower, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Either that, or the vagueness was intentional on their part. That was the idea. That's the entire reason why you can choose to support different characters ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 That was the idea. That's the entire reason why you can choose to support different characters ya know. Yes, but we're here to debate which is more likely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Lightning Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Lol everyone can keep on fighting about Hector/Lyn and Rath/Lyn; I'll just be lonely over here in the Eliwood/Lyn corner... XD I would hope that if IS decided to make pairing canon, they would base it off on more than just support growth points or death quotes. Just my 2 cents. That was the idea. That's the entire reason why you can choose to support different characters ya know. QFT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Well like I said I'm just tired of any sort of discussion these "canonicity" debates bring. And people do get cranky when they're tired. Canonicity arguments annoy me as well. That's why I try to ignore them, unless someone says something that is factually wrong. I tend to be a blunt person, and I apologize if that does seem rather off-putting. It's just that I figure that, to keep it as short as I can, Hector/Lyn wouldn't have as much in FE7 as the pairs does if I.S. didn't intend for it to be what they themselves want to happen. (I do figure that topics like this are made with the intent to try to figure out what I.S. intends.) And if Rath/Lyn and Hector/Florina were, then they would get the "implied love interest" treatment. I know that neither pair is canon, though. But due to the lack of any romance between the latter two pairs (and interaction, in the case of the last pair mentioned), I just don't see the latter two happening. Being blunt isn't the problem. It's the language and the wording you use that is often very off-putting. You tend to phrase things in a way that make it sound like you know exactly what IS intended to do and "what I'm saying is right", and sometimes you say things that make it sound like people who like a pairing you don't like have something wrong with them. There's a difference between trying to guess at IS's intentions and making it sound like you know what they're trying to say. My personal opinion is that if you look hard enough and know how to argue right, you can argue in favor of pretty much anything but I highly doubt IS was intending for us to look that deeply. I think that Hector/Florina and Lyn/Rath still have in-game support (as do Hector/Farina and Lyn/Kent), and interactions between major character with major character are different than interactions between major character with minor character. Otherwise, in FE13, that would mean that Chrom/MU or Lucina/MU are canon just because they're major characters who interact the most with MU. And I highly doubt that is the case. Lyn and Eliwood not interacting much while Lyn and Hector do is telling. Lyn and Hector interacting a lot while Lyn+Rath and Hector+Florina don't interact as much in the cutscenes is not as telling as the former. Yes. And I admit that was wrong of me. Once again, I do apologize. I'm not trying to start an argument or attack you or anything. Sometimes, I feel that people get way too heated and passionate about their pairing arguments, which make things unpleasant for other people. And no one likes that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) I would hope that if IS decided to make pairing canon, they would base it off on more than just support growth points or death quotes. Just my 2 cents. I believe you missed everything else then. So far, the argument, as I know it, is... POINTS FOR Lyn x Rath/Florina x Hector 1) Florina and Lilina have similar naming schemes, both referring to flowers, and both ending in "ina". 2) Lilina's eyes are soft and blue like Florina. 3) Lyn, for as much as she probably loves Hector (as a friend certainly), would probably not be too eager to not go back to her plains, which she goes on and on about. 4) Lyn has higher support growths with Rath than she does with any of her other suitors. And two others I just thought of recently... 5) If you think about it, Rath just up and leaving his mercenary band in Chapter 19/21 is rather sudden, and not all that logical unless we consider the idea that he's also in love with Lyn. So there's certainly no lack of passion on his part. 6) Rath, as part of that prophecy that his father heard of, was cast out of his village, and into the unknown...a rather pointless action unless he actually brings someone back from that unknown (i.e. Lyn) so his child...I don't know, can have some sort of super gene from Lyn or something? I guess it's not necessarily a point that has to be considered, but it'd be nice to think that there was an actual point to his abandonment, wouldn't it? Though of course, there are some holes in that theory, like... POINTS FOR Hector x Lyn 1) Tons and tons and TONS of interaction between the two in Hector's story, and their interactions get to the point where Eliwood actually comments "Sometimes I wonder about those two..." in "Four Fanged Offense". 2) Serra shipping the two. 3) Hector having higher support points with Lyn than he does with Florina. 4) Hector and Florina...truthfully being kind of a weird pairing, all things considered. And even there, the only point I don't have any good answers for is number 1. For Serra, well...this IS Serra we're talking about, so we shouldn't necessarily take her seriously, and Hector's lower growth with Florina could just be explained away by Florina being shy, and therefore, probably avoiding him much more than Lyn did, and NOT due to a lack of passion on Hector's part. As for the last one...hey, if it worked for Rocky Balboa and Adrienne...maybe it's the same kind of situation with Hector and Florina? Of course, Rocky wasn't as boisterous as Hector, but on the other hand, he WAS basically a street rat while Hector was a prince, so maybe Hector's princeliness counteracted his more abrasive personality? Anyways, what do you think? Do I have what you would call a solid argument? Edited October 8, 2013 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If you get into a shipping arguement, always make the best compromise. An orgy. Everybody wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 1) Florina and Lilina have similar naming schemes, both referring to flowers, and both ending in "ina". A similar case could be made for Lyndis and Lilina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 It just seems to me that he's beating a dead horse, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) A similar case could be made for Lyndis and Lilina. It's not really quite as...oh, what, I get it, I think. That only really works if you pronounce Lilina as "Lil-Lyn-Uh", though, which I never have. I've always said it as "Lil-Lee-Nuh", though I suppose it'd be interesting to see how it was supposed to be pronounced in the japanese version, wouldn't it? Would anyone happen to know that? Edited October 8, 2013 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I'm more surprised that anyone doesn't bring up the fact that Ostia always gets jurisdiction over Caelin after FE7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Is that really relevant when, as you said, it happens no matter what? Even if Hector goes unmarried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 It's just one of those things that I don't think that it really goes anywhere or even makes sense unless if certain conditions are present. Kinda like the fact that Fury always names her son Ced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Well, I mean, pretty much all of Caelin's royalty is dead except Lyn, Lyn desperately wants to go back to her plains, she doesn't have any experience in politics or ruling (besides the etiquette classes that she mentions in some supports), and no matter what happens, she comes to not only like him, but to sympathize with all of his pains and become one of his best friends, A support or no. Isn't it only natural then, that she hands it over to him? Edited October 8, 2013 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If you get into a shipping arguement, always make the best compromise. An orgy. Everybody wins. This guy gets it. Makes paternity tests a b***h though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Lyn never mentions even wanting to go back to the plains unless if she's paired with anyone not named Hector or Eliwood, if anyone at all. So, I wouldn't argue that she "desperately" wants to go back to the plains just because of variables such as her Battle Preparations opening dialogue. And I would think it more logical for Caelin to be under the jurisdiction of a territory that's literally closer to Caelin than Ostia is if Lyn did indeed go back to the plains. (Preferably Pherae, since out of the rulers of the nearest territories, Lyn's the most friendly with Eliwood.) Besides, some argue that disowning all ties of nobility would be selfish on Lyn's part. And Lyn doesn't strike me as a selfish person. I personally don't think there would be selfishness at hand with Lyn going back to Sacae, but still! Edited October 8, 2013 by Just call me Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Farina Lilina c'mon let's tussle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Lyn never mentions even wanting to go back to the plains unless if she's paired with anyone not named Hector or Eliwood, if anyone at all. So, I wouldn't argue that she "desperately" wants to go back to the plains just because of variables such as her Battle Preparations opening dialogue. Hmm...still, you have to admit, it's hard to imagine that she wouldn't feel at least some sorrow over having to part with it. Still, I guess it's not impossible for her to simply take some occasional trips down there, huh? Come to think of it, maybe that's why you don't see her whining about it with an A support... And I would think it more logical for Caelin to be under the jurisdiction of a territory that's literally closer to Caelin than Ostia is if Lyn did indeed go back to the plains. (Preferably Pherae, since out of the rulers of the nearest territories, Lyn's the most friendly with Eliwood.) I will admit, that's a good point. Besides, some argue that disowning all ties of nobility would be selfish on Lyn's part. And Lyn doesn't strike me as a selfish person. I personally don't think there would be selfishness at hand with Lyn going back to Sacae, but still! I don't either. Mainly because I'm not sure she'd make for a very good ruler, being completely new to the whole thing. Granted, Hector is too, but at least he has a frame of reference, with his brother's example to follow, his own experiences (as sour as they were), and wise advisors in Oswin and Mathew. Edited October 8, 2013 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hmm...still, you have to admit, it's hard to imagine that she wouldn't feel at least some sorrow over having to part with it. Still, I guess it's not impossible for her to simply take some occasional trips down there, huh? Come to think of it, maybe that's why you don't see her whining about it with an A support... True. And it seems to me that she's the type who would place others' needs before her own. Which could be another reason why she doesn't mention wanting to back to Sacae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 FE9 does this and adjusts supports for units that have died. None of those "adjusted supports" are canon though, since it turns out that everybody's alive three years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm more surprised that anyone doesn't bring up the fact that Ostia always gets jurisdiction over Caelin after FE7. Ostia is the head of the Lycia. Who else would Lyn turn over Caelin to? Pherae? Araphen? Laus? Random Lycian territory #9? I mean, it makes sense to me even if Lyn and Hector aren't in love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 None of those "adjusted supports" are canon though, since it turns out that everybody's alive three years later. I like to pretend RD's story doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.