JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Should I put another disclaimer? I guess not it seemed very shallow compared to their other supports (okay, Chrom's with female!avatar is about as shallow, but they actually have substantial interaction in the main story, so I'm more forgiving with it [and ship it, actually... haha...]), they kept in Sumia's numerous failures Problem no.1 is the fact that Chrom's other support is good. Like, really Maribelle and Sully is so good, while Olivia is passable at worst The problem with MU x Chrom is the fact that for someone who is supposed to be close to Chrom. They show no closeness to each other like at all. C supports is all about a generic tsundere and a dude who just meet conversation. B support is stupid(and I don't think I need to explain why). A support is stupidity part 2. All of which have some parts of MU's tactician position shoved in for whatever reason. The S support is good, but with the way that they make C, B, AND A, it does NOT deliver Sumia x Chrom might not be as good as Maribelle and Sully, but they do one thing right, Sumia does, indeed shows some concern over Chrom. She actually care for him, in a sense that she tried to make it so that Chrom did not overwork himself, and show it further by baking pies The fact that she is incompetent at this job is, IMO NOT a detriment to this support. Instead, I feel like this part is one of the good parts. Despite the fact that she failed 15 times at it(which is sad considering how much this is exagerated), she tried over and over again until she does it right and never gives up. And guess what? She succeed. Grorious Moral Story right thar. In term of their relationship development, they have a friendly relationship with each other right from the start, however we can see this development with this beautiful line: "Chrom:Sumia, you are too much. Where do you find all the time and energy for this?Sumia:Oh, it's nothing. Really! Hardly any trouble at all. Except for finding veggies. ...And grinding flour. ...Oh, and kneading dough. But apart from THAT, it's easy as... well, pie! I like doing it. Really. Honest.Chrom:Well, if you say so.Sumia:Oh, I do say so! And today I made an extra big one so we can eat it together!Chrom:A pie shared with friends is twice as tasty. Or so my old Nurse Nan said. ...Listen, Sumia. I'm...I'm sorry. About bringing you into all this, I mean. You deserve better than a battlefield, but right now that's where I need you.Sumia:Oh, Chrom... It's an honor and a privilege to serve you. Besides, serving as a soldier isn't all bad. There are lots of things I like about it.Chrom:Truly? Like what?Sumia:Well, the horses are fun!Chrom:You mean the pegasus? Er, pegasuses? ...Pegasi?Sumia:Those too! I just love swooping through the sky-it's so exhilarating. But I like looking after them even more. Combing manes, brushing teeth...Chrom:You do spend a lot of time in the stables, now that I think about it.Sumia:I do hate that they have to fight. When I see them in the thick of battle... I know we need them if we're to win this war. It can't be helped. But, it makes my heart ache every time I see such a beautiful creature hurt.Chrom:I don't know what to say, Sumia. Except to thank you again. Thank you for all the sacrifices you're making for my sake. I swear that I will do everything in my power to end this war quickly. And I promise to build a peace that will endure for generations.Sumia:I know you will, Chrom. And I'm going to help you do it!" The fact that she is oblivious to the whole deal make any sort of complaints that Sumia is a manipulative bitch does not work. Never was, and never will. And it just make the situation sweeter. So, what is the problem with this support? Lets face it, the S support writing is shit. I don't know why the development in A support is thrown off right away in the context of the confession for no reason I mean the confession is basically Chrom: Dood I liek Pies, and this is pies and whatever pies she make pies and I need to make you happy, so marry me maybe Sumia: WTF am I a Laguz Royal nao? And thats how Sumia become Tibarn and gained Pavise. If you ever questioned why Sumia has Knight, this is why So lets pretend it does not exist tl;dr Sumia's support is not shallow at all. It shows a sense of development, and the best thing about it is, it shows some sense of realistic development even if you can't easilly justify it in a war situation. Its S support is terribru, but it teaches a nice Moral as well: "whenever you failed, never give up and get it right". Edited October 5, 2013 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHeartLibra Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) My main problem is that... it seemed very shallow compared to their other supports (okay, Chrom's with female!avatar is about as shallow, but they actually have substantial interaction in the main story, so I'm more forgiving with it [and ship it, actually... haha...]), they kept in Sumia's numerous failures (which I find annoying mostly because... it is a war and supplies, in theory, are too limited to waste attempting to back numerous pies [once or twice is forgiving, but I think the number was 10+]), and... a couple of other, probably more nitpicky things. That said, I agree with your point with Cordelia. *sigh* the writers really bungled with her.But still, Sumia actively tried to get Chrom to fall in love with her, which Cordelia didn't. And somehow, that's Sumia's fault. *sigh*...Somedays, I wonder if we're the same person. XDSazuke is someone who says what you did in your opening post, but far more rude and more cursing and far less reasonably. It DOES "get solved", though. Cordelia falls in love with someone else (should you choose to have her marry someone). Oh, I see. I didn't mean to bring hate on ChromxSumia by any means(I actually think they're adorable!)I wasn't thinking about the fact that after Cordelia has been shipped off Support conversations and DLC conversations follow their own time and AI. I hope I wasn't too annoying to anyone! Forgive me for any offense everyone!0^0 Same shit as alwayspopular characters get the most shit True, I guess that is the reason the site doesn't have a Libra member card. :( Edited October 5, 2013 by Tangerine Merging posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 [Text] Look, I was explaining my thoughts, and probably shouldn't have given it wasn't related to the topic. Still, since you replied... Sorry, I still find it shallow, no matter your argument. Admittedly, I might not have found it as shallow if not for the fact it was touted as the canon couple and it could be hype backlash. The morale of never giving up is a good one. The fact that she wasted supplies of an ARMY in the middle of a WAR, however, makes it seem much and becomes an actual detriment. In fact, you could argue that she's being SELFISH WHILE TRYING TO BE SELFLESS, because those supplies were supposed to go to everyone, not just Chrom. (Oh, this is going to trigger something isn't it.) Not sure why you attacked MU/Chrom, considering that I stated it was shallow (my best guess is because I also stated I ship it or that I 'forgive' it because MU/Chrom actually interact in the story proper, unlike Chrom/Sumia who have two rather random interactions in the main story, one of which is funny, but a) makes her seem INCREDIBLY ditzy and b) is VERY RANDOM). I ship Mu/Chrom because a) I just plain like the story better with them as a couple, b) prefer his other options with other people, and c) I actually had some friends who got together similarly (YES, THIS INCLUDES THE STUPID THING WITH THE BATH, I WISH I WAS JOKING) so it's just hilarious to me. I never said Sumia was manipulative. I said she was GOING AFTER Chrom instead of just hanging back and sighing like Cordelia chose. That's not being manipulative. That's trying for it. tldr? It's great you like it. I don't, and your argument hasn't changed my opinion of it one bit. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) "because those supplies were supposed to go to everyone, not just Chrom. (Oh, this is going to trigger something isn't it.)" this is one of the reason why I wrote that sentence so many times >_> "I never said Sumia was manipulative. I said she was GOING AFTER Chrom instead of just hanging back and sighing like Cordelia chose. That's not being manipulative. That's trying for it." This is not related to your post, at all. Its actually a joke "I actually had some friends who got together similarly (YES, THIS INCLUDES THE STUPID THING WITH THE BATH, I WISH I WAS JOKING) so it's just hilarious to me." I don't mind this, its actually fun to know ^^ "tldr? It's great you like it. I don't, and your argument hasn't changed my opinion of it one bit. Sorry." We are on a forum, and arguing. Theres nothing to be sorry for Edited October 5, 2013 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The morale of never giving up is a good one. The fact that she wasted supplies of an ARMY in the middle of a WAR, however, makes it seem much and becomes an actual detriment. You have to take into account the perspective of how each character is literally a trope when they were written. In each support, they pretty much ignore all other events save for the two developing characters. The failure and usage of supplies was never the focus when they were writing those supports... but the success and overcoming her shortcomings... which they have to EXAGGERATE heavily just like her tripping. If we took Sumia seriously, she would have probably been already dead from tripping into a spear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 You have to take into account the perspective of how each character is literally a trope when they were written. In each support, they pretty much ignore all other events save for the two developing characters. The failure and usage of supplies was never the focus when they were writing those supports... but the success and overcoming her shortcomings... which they have to EXAGGERATE heavily just like her tripping. If we took Sumia seriously, she would have probably been already dead from tripping into a spear. Its still stupid either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeDom Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Personally, I'm not a big fan of her character. But I don't see anything about her that makes her deserving of ''hate''.I can understand people just finding her dull, uninteresting or forgettable, but outright loathing her like that is a bit irrational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 She's an Aspie so the ableist people hate her apparently. I fucking lol'd. Thanks. [spoiler=Pent/Fiora Support Set] C Support: Fiora: Lord Pent. Please forgive me for taking so long to report... The mission you entrusted me... Pent: Fiora... Fiora: Forgive us, my lord. We were not strong enough... We were ambushed on the Dread Isle, and the mission ended in failure... But Lord Eliwood did lend his aid, and we were able to gain some information... Allow me to give you the details... Pent: Fiora, please... Don’t worry about that for now... It is I who should apologize... Fiora: ...What for? Pent: I understand you lost companions on Valor... It is my fault. I should have provided better information. I had no idea there was such danger. Fiora: No, my lord. It was carelessness that invited danger. My own. There is no reason for you to feel responsible... Pent: But... Fiora: I take full responsibility for the failure of my mission... And now, if you will excuse me... B Support: Pent: Fiora...may we speak a moment? Fiora: My lord Pent? What are you doing here? Please, do not concern yourself with me. You should be by your wife’s side. Pent: Take this. Fiora: Hm? It’s a jewel... Pent: I know it is not much, but we travel lightly these days, and it is all I could find. It is a token of my appreciation for you and your compatriots. Please accept it. Fiora: If it is a matter of payment, I have already been-- Pent: Sell it. Take the gold it brings you and give it to the families of your fallen friends. It is no compensation for their loss, but... Fiora: Lord Pent... Lord Pent, you are too kind... The other nobles think of us as pawns in their game... No one concerns himself with the death of a pawn... And that is to be expected. We are, after all, mercenaries. Pent: Fiora... Fiora: But, Lord Pent... We are grateful for your kindness... You have always treated us as equals... Even those who fell on the Dread Isle were proud to have served you... As am I. Pent: ...... Fiora: So please, Lord Pent... Please rely on our lances. Let us fight for you. This is the wish of the knights of Ilia. I like how Pent handles it. Pent is a true boss. <3 I am not a fan of Cordelia's. I think she could have benefited from not having her unrequited love thing being nearly the entire thing her character revolves around. We see more of that than her survivor story. Its irksome to say the least. Plus shes boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 It's quite telling when her biggest 'flaw' is that she's too modest of her own abilities. And small boobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 It's quite telling when her biggest 'flaw' is that she's too modest of her own abilities. And small boobs. Really? I thought it was her tendency to get stuck in mental ruts, refusing to let others help her through her issues, and actually trying to live up to an image of perfection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 So many people are constantly telling her that she's great and perfect and everything while she's ebing modest so yeah, I'd say that is what they wanted her flaw to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 wait so.. cordelia doesn't like to be called a genius or perfect, but she tries to be? and then she becomes modest and hates everyone. right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Less tries to be and more "has a habit to be" if most of her support says anything Also her last sentence with Kellam does not exactly speaks of Modesty >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 so she can't help being a "genius" or perfect? interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeDusk Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) She (apparently) has natural talent at everything she does and tries to improve on said talents to be the best she can possibly be. She says in Kellam A support (I think) that she isn't the best at anything she does, which Kellam replies she is the best at being good at everything A good example of her modesty is her supports with Stahl. She gets called amazing at the harp by Stahl ane tries to be her equal but says she's no where near as good as Phila Edited October 6, 2013 by DodgeDusk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 .....who's Phila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeDusk Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 .....who's Phila she dies in chapter 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) i want phila to be an extra spotpass character, but she's probably not the important as the others. in chapter 7, i loved seeing cordelia NOT on her pegasus, because i love the pegasus knight / dark flier outfit, so seeing her walk with the peggy outfit was great. Edited October 6, 2013 by Carter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHeartLibra Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 i want phila to be an extra spotpass character, but she's probably not the important as the others. in chapter 7, i loved seeing cordelia NOT on her pegasus, because i love the pegasus knight / dark flier outfit, so seeing her walk with the peggy outfit was great. I'd like to see that too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 And it's Catria they're referencing with Cordelia, not Caeda. Though in Catria's case, they mastered subtlety and didn't shove it down your throuat like they did with Cordelia. "mastered subtlety": other words for "8-bit writing didn't exist" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 "mastered subtlety": other words for "8-bit writing didn't exist" Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, how much of that was subtlety and how much of it was a lack of characterization for practically all the characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Considering that they managed to tell their story through gameplay to make up for other limitations, I'd say they did pretty damn well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Considering that they managed to tell their story through gameplay to make up for other limitations, I'd say they did pretty damn well. i dare you to point to textual evidence in FE1 that even implies catria has the hots for marth because it doesn't fucking exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 i dare you to point to textual evidence in FE1 that even implies catria has the hots for marth because it doesn't fucking exist I think he's talking about support bonuses. ...Which I was unaware that it had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) I'm taking FE3 more so than FE1. And FE11 too. Edited October 6, 2013 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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