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So today in school I was made fun of for being a virgin.


IceBrand
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take note of the following sentence: "The setting the religions provided allowed rational thinking to develop."

apply it to one of our brilliant non-secular cultures today. clearly this is false. it's in fact quite evident that i can assert the converse, "the setting the religions provided discouraged the development of rational thinking," and provide plenty of justification for it. i don't even have to limit myself to the present day. i can pick a time and location from medieval to pre-renaissance europe. i can pick a time and location from mesopotamia after approximately the 12th century.

i'll continue using islam as an example for a moment. you have progressive muslim thinkers like avicenna, rhazes, and omar khayyam. then you have the ultra-conservative al-ghazali, and after al-ghazali, islam was never quite the same. all you need is to have one dumbass religious literalist come along and pretty much help set your culture on the path to a trainwreck in the modern world

so how could i be wrong?

Look, religion generally asserts that things of this universe were created by a creator (or creators). And because of that, humans began to question it... in other words, think more rationally. Perhaps there could've been other paths that history taken... but it didn't. It had religion and there's no changing that. (Unless time travel becomes possible through further learning of relativity and quantum mechanics... and even then, there's all sorts of paradoxes that arise.) Religion is the thing that pushed our ancestors to seek other answers. Like you said, it is true, that it, at times, discouraged rational thinking and advocated faith, or reliance on the god(s). But you cannot disregard the rest of the effects just because of that. Many, no, most of the great scientists in history (until recently) were Chrisitians, Muslims, or whatnot. Certainly that says something, no? Or is that just some coincidence, too?

But yeah, you're not wrong about that part... things can be fragile and easily pushed over the edge. But about the backwardness? I disagree completely.

My point: religion, whether or not is the only possible path to rational thinking, is the path humanity took. It is the reason why people began to think rationally, coincidence or not. Oh, and it's not backward, but, ultimately, progressive.

Edited by Fruity Insanity
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I must be the only person on the planet who doesn't want to EVER lose their virginity and refuses to have sex at all (especially since there are other, less painful and risky ways to get what one calls an orgasm).

But anyway, anyone that bullies someone else because they haven't had sex is just stupid. You don't have to have sex to enjoy life or show you love another person or anything. If someone has a problem with me choosing to stay abstinent, then woop-dee-do, I don't give a damn. It's my choice, they can deal with it and leave me be.

In fact, it's almost as bad as bullying someone for their sexuality.

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I must be the only person on the planet who doesn't want to EVER lose their virginity and refuses to have sex at all (especially since there are other, less painful and risky ways to get what one calls an orgasm).

But anyway, anyone that bullies someone else because they haven't had sex is just stupid. You don't have to have sex to enjoy life or show you love another person or anything. If someone has a problem with me choosing to stay abstinent, then woop-dee-do, I don't give a damn. It's my choice, they can deal with it and leave me be.

In fact, it's almost as bad as bullying someone for their sexuality.

All I have to say to this, is 'word'. While you may forever miss out on something you could very well enjoy - more power to you, and that's nothing to be insulted or ridiculed for. To each their own, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round - long live the freedom to choose!

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All I have to say to this, is 'word'. While you may forever miss out on something you could very well enjoy - more power to you, and that's nothing to be insulted or ridiculed for. To each their own, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round - long live the freedom to choose!

Long live the freedom to choose indeed. But I don't care if I'm missing out. Plenty of people miss out on things they might've enjoyed. But on the flipside, they probably did other enjoyable things instead.

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and look, you didn't even bother addressing one of my critical points, which was that our ancestors had no choice in their religious denomination. we are extremely blessed to live in a society where many of us can stop for a moment and think, "no, i don't like my religion, maybe i'll try a different one or go atheist" and not suffer social consequences. i don't see many people doing that in older societies, and there are two explanations, one of which is simpler than another (and here i will invoke ockham's razor): either they could see no reason to re-align their religious beliefs (whereas we suddenly do), or there was a very strong reason not to.

Whoops. Okay.

Not in all cultures, true, but it was more common than you think. China, India, the Islamic Empire... a lot of them had religious freedom at one point or another. In fact, it was the West that had the most discrimination, believe it or not. Until more recently, of course.

Edited by Fruity Insanity
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If you friends mock you for that

Get better friends they're awful

I vote punch them in the face

Do the thing when you feel like you are actually ready. Too many kids these days get pressured into sex without really being ready, whether emotionally, physically, or really with the maturity to understand what exactly happened and it sucks. When you do it, make sure you really want to do it yourself, and that your partner really want to do it themselves. Voluntary enthusiastic consent is very important. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. You're allowed to wait as long as you want, or deciding you don't want to do it at all (and may or may not change your mind later) and nobody is in the right to think you less for it. What's important is that you really do feel ready, your partner also really feels ready and is capable of consent, and that the act is consensual, should you choose to partake in it.

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Honestly... urgh.

Ignore them. Seriously.

My aunt was a Math teacher at a high school... and someone saying "they can't attend detention because they have to take care of their daughter" was like... what.

"How old are you?"

"Fourteen"

...

So you're telling me that not only is their willpower so weak that they gave in to the temptation, but they were also as stupid as to not use protection?

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Look, religion generally asserts that things of this universe were created by a creator (or creators). And because of that, humans began to question it... in other words, think more rationally. Perhaps there could've been other paths that history taken... but it didn't. It had religion and there's no changing.

and it could just as easily have the opposite effect. the danger of religion lies in dogma. from a purely conceptual standpoint, dogma is never wrong and can never be questioned. if your line of reasoning for a positive correlation between religiosity and rational thinking in older cultures is that some people disliked the concept of dogma, then you're really justifying the converse argument, that rational thinking proliferated despite religion.

Religion is the thing that pushed our ancestors to seek other answers. Like you said, it is true, that it, at times, discouraged rational thinking and advocated faith, or reliance on the god(s). But you cannot disregard the rest of the effects just because of that. Many, no, most of the great scientists in history (until recently) were Chrisitians, Muslims, or whatnot. Certainly that says something, no? Or is that just some coincidence, too?

well, no, this a coincidence of the most likely kind. the strongest indicator for what religion someone subscribes to is... the religion that his or her parents subscribed to. if you want a historical atheist scientist, either he had to be born of atheist parents or could confidently affirm his lack of belief in god(s), and both of these prerequisites require cultures that fully allowed the lack of religious belief. that didn't really exist until the previous century. there's also the fact that it's progressively easier for one to justify atheism based on the body of modern scientific knowledge, whereas such knowledge was lacking beyond a century ago.

But yeah, you're not wrong about that part... things can be fragile and easily pushed over the edge. But about the backwardness? I disagree completely.

what about it do you disagree with? do you disagree that it is irrational, or even tantamount to murder, to deny condoms to HIV-infected people (because just telling them to not have sex simply doesn't work)? do you disagree that it is irrational to circumcise male and female infants and children when it has been shown that circumcision does not reduce the desire for sex? do you disagree that it is both dangerous and unnecessary to completely sew shut a female vagina so that only one male in her lifetime can have intercourse with her?

Edited by dondon151
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Just let them know they're the weak ones for falling into temptation among the masses. :smug:

dondon do you agree completely

i mean, i think it's wrong to hold virginity or non-virginity as a status icon above someone else. you shouldn't feel anxious about not having had sex, and you shouldn't hide the fact that you've had sex.

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So you're telling me that not only is their willpower so weak that they gave in to the temptation, but they were also as stupid as to not use protection?

I took it as a ugh on society because we don't know the circumstances of the girl's pregnancy. She may not have had a choice, and even if she had chosen to do so it may have been pressures from the guy, or society, or both. 14 for most is quite too young to really understand what sex is and the consequences there of, and it's an age where peer pressure is very strong. I'd far sooner blame media's oversexed portrayals of everything, especially women, and its heavy expectations for people to have had sex even at a young age, than the mother herself. Ugh society indeed.

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and it could just as easily have the opposite effect. the danger of religion lies in dogma. from a purely conceptual standpoint, dogma is never wrong and can never be questioned. if your line of reasoning for a positive correlation between religiosity and rational thinking in older cultures is that some people disliked the concept of dogma, then you're really justifying the converse argument, that rational thinking proliferated despite religion.

Yes. It may have hindered it, but in that hindering, encouraged research and rational thought...

...That's what you were saying, right?

well, no, this a coincidence of the most likely kind. the most potent indicator for what religion someone subscribes to is... the religion that his or her parents subscribed to. if you want a historical atheist scientist, either he had to be born of atheist parents or could confidently affirm his lack of belief in god(s), and both of these prerequisites require cultures that fully allowed the lack of religious belief. that didn't really exist until the previous century. there's also the fact that it's progressively easier for one to justify atheism based on the body of modern scientific knowledge, whereas such knowledge was lacking beyond a century ago.

True, true. I still believe that, coincidence or not, religions provoked thought.

what about it do you disagree with? do you disagree that it is irrational, or even tantamount to murder, to deny condoms to HIV-infected people (because just telling them to not have sex simply doesn't work)? do you disagree that it is irrational to circumcise male and female infants and children when it has been shown that circumcision does not reduce the desire for sex? do you disagree that it is both dangerous and unnecessary to completely sew shut a female vagina so that only one male in her lifetime can have intercourse with her?

This is a generalization to an extreme degree. Implying that, what, all cultures that value virginity are backwards? I'm sorry, but that's pretty much every society up 'til more recently. And if those cultures are so backwards... how'd we progress and advance in the first place? It's not all backwards. The fact that we moved forward proves that. We only view those practices as wrong by our standards now. And you can't look at everything like that. You have to look at things through their eyes. And even if they were societal problems... societal problems always were around and always will be around. There will never be perfect utopian society.

Anyway, it was fun arguing!

...I have to go finish my book review now~

Besides, nobody's convincing anybody. You'll continue to think your way; me, mine.

Edited by Fruity Insanity
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This is a generalization to an extreme degree. Implying that, what, all cultures that value virginity are backwards? I'm sorry, but that's pretty much every society up 'til more recently. And if those cultures are so backwards... how'd we progress and advance in the first place? It's not all backwards. The fact that we moved forward proves that. We only view those practices as wrong by our standards now. And you can't look at everything like that. You have to look at things through their eyes. And even if they were societal problems... societal problems always were around and always will be around. There will never be perfect utopian society.

i need only to point you to the dictionary definition of "backwards:"

4. toward the past: to look backward over one's earlier mistakes.

5. toward a less advanced state; retrogressively: Since the overthrow of the president the country has moved steadily backward.
Anyway, it was fun arguing!
the pleasure is mine.
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There's nothing wrong with being a virgin. People who make fun of other people for being virgins are the real idiots. There are many, MANY practical reasons to not be sexually active, and when you're in high school, not being sexually active is the smartest choice of them all! Heck, when I went to high school everyone I was friends with never did anything like that, and over a decade later none of us still have. There's no shame in that.

If people make fun of you for being a virgin, tell them, "I'm sorry that I have far more important things to worry about, like my future, and that you don't value your future enough if you have time to be screwing around."

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If people make fun of you for being a virgin, tell them, "I'm sorry that I have far more important things to worry about, like my future, and that you don't value your future enough if you have time to be screwing around."

well, that's a generalization, and a pretty mean one at that. there are plenty of people who screw around casually who have good prospective futures.

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well, that's a generalization, and a pretty mean one at that. there are plenty of people who screw around casually who have good prospective futures.

Yeah, that's true, and I honestly have no problem with people who screw around casually as long as they're SMART about it. But it's pretty mean to make fun of someone for being a virgin to begin with as well.

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If people make fun of you for being a virgin, tell them, "I'm sorry that I have far more important things to worry about, like my future, and that you don't value your future enough if you have time to be screwing around."

i don't know about that...i mean from what i see, a ton of high school kids don't even know what they're going to do with they're future regardless of whether or not they so around trying to thrust into a person. then there's me, a college kid who still doesn't know what a kiss feels like AND hardly knows what they're going to do with their life

i know sangyul can't read this post, but i think it's worth saying.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA when I was in my first year of junior high, one of my friends told me some girl made fun of me for the same thing. I would tell you all what ended up happening to her, but I don't think it would send the right message across so I will refrain from saying it. Anyway, OP ignore the people that are making fun of you for being a virgin. I do believe that it's something precious and not to be thrown around casually, people can call me a prude for saying it, but...I strongly believe that.

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I basically agree with what dondon said, not sure exactly what's so important of whether or not a person has had sex before (in and of itself, I'm sure there are practical concerns that I'm ignoring because I did not put enough thought into this).

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i couldn't read past all the opinions on the first page, but in case it hasn't been said: stop putting the pussy on a pedestal. the steve carrell movie couldn't have said it better.

meibay was also correct in that if you have something that's perceived as a problem or weakness by the society / group you're a part of, you should avoid volunteering that information, or instead find a way to turn it into a strength.

the support you're getting here on a forum that really doesn't know you or your personal life is remarkable though, so don't give up hope on yourself or let the criticism get you down. good luck with it, bro, you got this.

Edited by black op: skyfang
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Ha! Why is it I've always heard worse?

That aside, I'm one of those religious people, so I disapprove of pre-marital *clears throat* 'interactions,' so I think you should be proud to have a little decency. Of course, you're also not me, so you can't make a joke or reputation of it. But I can, and it's good fun.

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