Why all the hate for Sothe And Micaiah?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

forgive me for being blunt, but i feel like its a combination of grasping at straws to dislike a character when you don't need much of a reason to dislike someone (just say you dislike their personality or design, something along those lines which is fair since that can not be argued because its your opinion) people who i think enjoy to hyperbole a character's bad points and ignore anything positive because to them, if its not the best thing ever, its the worst thing ever without redeeming features.

this is something i feel rather strongly about, so i'm trying to not let emotions cloud my judgement, so that's all i am willing to say on the matter so far, anything else that i want to say might be too toxic, which if anyone wants to know, they can PM me, unless afew people wants me to type it in public.

Edited April 20, 2014 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Florete]

The story thus far...

1. NinjaMonkey comments on how Micaiah gets doubled all the time.

2. Everyone who posts thereafter speaks against it.

3.

Why does it seem like no one here is capable of defending/clearing units on the player phase? I mean, geez, for a game series focused on strategy there seems to be an outright adversion to things like 'checking enemy ranges' and 'killing enemies that can hit vulnerable targets' and a lot more of 'overpower enemies through sheer statistical force and bashing forwards without regard' followed by a mighty strategy void before hitting 'micromanaging every little detail to complete the map in as few turns as possible'. Sure, a unit like Rolf may need you to clear out any enemy or else one will likely attack him in melee if possible, but not only is it fairly easy to do so, but the penalty REALLY isn't that bad.

Yet it almost sounds like just having Micaiah fielded will result in a major burden because the player has to POTENTIALLY check the range every ONCE IN A WHILE or else Micaiah MIGHT end up getting attacked and POSSIBLY doubled on ONE MODE. Like, seriously, what? I'd think even a basic level of strategy would negate that problem.

Talk about emphasizing the negative.

As for an actual answer to your question, it's because the enemy units outnumber player units. In 99% of situations in a given FE game, you absolutely need at least one unit who can take a hit or two and live or you won't be able to clear the map. It's not that people are incapable of eliminating threats on the player phase, it's that being durable is better than not and being threatened by something is worse than not.

I think it stands within reason that units who require you to think less to beat the game are probably better. Not as fun to use, maybe, but that's entirely subjective.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i think this might be the stupidest post in the entire thread that i'm about to make, but here we go.

is NinjaMonkey a troll? its been awhile since I've came back but i don't remember him acting like this, or maybe i'm just forgetful.

Edited April 20, 2014 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

You're completely ignoring her part 1 and 3 performance where most things double her and if they don't they still kill her in one hit.

Laura would be doubled and killed in one hit. On easy mode almost no enemy would not attack Micki twice, because the enemies have lower speed and more speed penality, because of lower strength. If Micki reaches a speed of 11 at least in part 1, no one would double her except for myrmidons and a few of bosses. In part 3 the cats and hawks can double her.

A tip: Give her Tauroneo´s "Resolve" skill, if she has very low speed. Or give her bexp., if she has maxed magic and resistance to equalize her speed problems.

On hard mode.

On normal mode with moderate use only fast enemies like myrmidons should be doubling her. I don't play easy mode, but I can't imagine most enemies doubling or one-hitting her there as long as she's actually being leveled.

If she has very bad speed growth, soldiers and warriors can double her on normal mode.

If you're not training her (which, I don't doubt, you could very well be doing), then of course she's going to get doubled. The enemies in that mode are so wimpy, so you either got to get ridiculously screwed or not train her enough to get her to that level.

It's not like you could could exactly complain about Spd screwage, either. BEXP comes so so cheap, in that mode

Yes, Micaiah really has no problems on easy mode.

The only character you really have to worry about is Laura. She would be doubled and killed in one hit in the beginning chapters. And she is much harder to train on easy mode, because you cannot heal that much. There are much less enemies and reinforcements on easy mode.

Edited April 20, 2014 by MisterIceTeaPeach

[Snowy_One]

Talk about emphasizing the negative.

As for an actual answer to your question, it's because the enemy units outnumber player units. In 99% of situations in a given FE game, you absolutely need at least one unit who can take a hit or two and live or you won't be able to clear the map. It's not that people are incapable of eliminating threats on the player phase, it's that being durable is better than not and being threatened by something is worse than not.

I think it stands within reason that units who require you to think less to beat the game are probably better. Not as fun to use, maybe, but that's entirely subjective.

Obviously. I'm not gonna debate that Micaiah is or isn't frail or anything like that or not *having* to think isn't a clear upside. I'm just saying that, for a strategy game, people seem to operate in one of two modes. Either 'hyper-strategist who only cares about LTC' or 'Strategy? Is dat one of dem fancy chinese werds?'. I've played through every English-released FE except for Shadow Dragon (issues with the cartage and getting it to read properly) and I've had only, like, three times total where a unit got attacked that I didn't plan-on in advance that wasn't related to a sudden crit-kill (oddly, all three being Laura). So... why do things like 'Micaiah will get doubled and die' seem to pop up everywhere?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

well, cause of emphasizing the negative, as i said before.

as for something i haven't mentioned before, its because this fanbase has always had some odd number of casuals who really don't belong in the fandom or seem to be playing the wrong game.

this is more so since awakening brought in more casuals, but that is neither here or there because before that there were an higher amount of those negative posts then there should've been.

Edited April 20, 2014 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Kikirini]

Sothe is uninteresting, Micaiah I wouldn't mind so much if she wasn't such a shit unit.

Honestly, in my case, it's more about hating the game than hating the characters. >.>

[Logience]

Well, regardless, it really does feel like every single time Micky levels up, it's nothing but Magic, Luck and Resistance, especially when using Bonus XP; and the rest of the growths have the frequency of proccing as they do in FE11.

[The Geek]

I didn't have any problems with Micaiah. Sure she has to be the worst of all the Lords as a unit (she only started getting good around Endgame as she spontaneously started growing STR and SPD, and her maxed out MAG and RES made her a valuable ally against the White Dragon Laguz) though her high LCK at least somewhat made up for her horrendous SPD. As a character, I never saw her as a Sue, she made too many mistakes and was far too unremarkable of a unit. In that department I feel that she's far outclassed by Strong-Woman-Mixed-Race-Hidden-Princess!Lyn, Saint!Marth, and Everyone's-Favorite-Hero!Ike (not to mention Kris and Robin). Also she's completely adorable kawaii desu

As for Sothe, he's far too unremarkable to hate.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Well, regardless, it really does feel like every single time Micky levels up, it's nothing but Magic, Luck and Resistance, especially when using Bonus XP; and the rest of the growths have the frequency of proccing as they do in FE11.

This is just standard for her class. Her only one issue is her poor speed growth, but all mages except for the both fire sages have this problem. I always have the same problems with her.

Like I said in a previous comment:

If she has maxed magic and resistance, I would recommend to give her bexp to equalize her deficit in speed. It really works! If she has high magic, resistence and a decent speed, Micky is pretty alright. Strength is not necessary, because light tomes have low weight except for purge.

Edited May 24, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Logience]

Maybe, but any attempts to get Bonus EXP stats for her will always be her usual Mag/Luk/Res levels until Level 14 at MINIMUM, and even then her Luck will still be a guarantee thanks to that stat cap of 40.

[BrightBow]

Micaiah's performance should not vary all that much, no matter how many levels she gets. She is never going to tank and she will rarely failing to nuke armors and riders.

[MajorMajora]

I like and hate Michaiah at the same time. There are aspects of her I like and I really love her idea/design, but she's pretty much a sue.

Actually, let me amend that. She's a sue in the 1st part of the game. She fits all the tropes: main love interest for a random character in the previous game who suddenly becomes buff, loved by everyone except for the clearly evil foolish old-geezer who only hates her because she gave him his comeuppance, even when performing what is normally an idiotic move/falling into a trap it all works out and she's given praise, she's branded AND the apostle, people obsess over her hair color (it's SILVER, not white, you dummy), she can see the future, she's buddies with the dragon prince, and she has no apparent character flaws.

When all this is combined with how flat her original allies are, I get the feeling she was written by a much less professional writer than the rest of the game. I get the feeling the writers just had to stick with whatever the original character designer gave them, and to be fair they did their best. She did get interesting come part 3.

[NinjaMonkey]

If you're not training her (which, I don't doubt, you could very well be doing), then of course she's going to get doubled.

Given she's one of the Lord characters, I feel obligated to train her...

[-Cynthia-]

I think people don't like Micaiah because she has an initially negative view of Ike, a character people who played the last game people like and think of as heroic and all that jazz. I thought it was pretty reasonable how she wasn't fond of Ike given the circumstances, but people are often not the best at seeing things from a character's point of view. Maybe I didn't have as much of a problem with Micaiah because I actually played RD before PoR.

Unit wise she has her strengths, but is very frail and doesn't double pretty much ever so she can be difficult to use as a unit.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I think people don't like Micaiah because she has an initially negative view of Ike, a character people who played the last game people like and think of as heroic and all that jazz.

Nah. It has to do with how she was constructed for the first part of the game. The whole Savior thing. Ike serves as a contrast because he had to really earn it with his game whereas Micaiah only has like five chapters of dodging Begnion troops before shes put on a huge ass pedestal. NPCs in Nevassa already saw her as super awesome even before the game began. While Part 3 helps deconstruct this view of the character, its reconstructed back up (very badly, i might add) in Part 4. Leaving people with a dim view of the character of Micaiah. Her initial viewpoint of Ike is actually one of the most reasonable and interesting aspects of her and her story.

Sure she has to be the worst of all the Lords as a unit

Roy exists and he says hi.

Seriously, if people think Micaiah is a shit unit, i am inclined to believe they arent playing the same game i am. Micaiah is actually hella gr9 as a unit. Sure, shes squishy, but she spams Thani and heals without a staff. Later, she gets a freaking staff use and shit gets even more awesome.

[BrightBow]

Micaiah is probably the unit who really taught me that having intimidating stats in everything is not the end of it all.

Given that this game doesn't have instantly moving reinforcements, it's really only the players fault if she gets hit.

And the higher the difficulty level, the more valuable her ability to nuke armors gets since these guys are really hard to take down in this game. Seriously, effective weapons are so hard to come by in this game that I tend to use the Repair on freaking Hammers. And needless to say, mages got nerved too badly to be of much use. So having access to effective and accurate magic is really helpful. And with 90 Thani charges, she can cast it until the cows come home.

Edited May 27, 2014 by BrightBow

[-Cynthia-]

Nah. It has to do with how she was constructed for the first part of the game. The whole Savior thing. Ike serves as a contrast because he had to really earn it with his game whereas Micaiah only has like five chapters of dodging Begnion troops before shes put on a huge ass pedestal. NPCs in Nevassa already saw her as super awesome even before the game began. While Part 3 helps deconstruct this view of the character, its reconstructed back up (very badly, i might add) in Part 4. Leaving people with a dim view of the character of Micaiah. Her initial viewpoint of Ike is actually one of the most reasonable and interesting aspects of her and her story.

Roy exists and he says hi.

I'm not sure that people necessarily share your opinion regarding Ike and Micaiah. I do agree that Micaiah's 'Saviorness' does come off as more Sueish than Ike's because Ike spends most of PoR saving Crimea while Micaiah does it in one part. Not sure how that could be fixed exactly though, since Part 1 being much longer than it already is wouldn't be that reasonable from a technical standpoint.

[Tomo]

Micaiah is almost a textbook definition of a mary sue.

>fancy hair colour, different from every one else

check

>super special powers noone else has

check

>everyone thinks she's just amazing

check

>no visible faults

check

>replaces the main character in importance

check

>inflated value to the plot for no good reason

check

combine that with the fact that she's a garbage unit in the game, has to be babied in every single stage, and that the character she's upstaging is fucking IKE, and yes, micaiah is the worst lord in the series, and one of the worst characters in the franchise, if not THE worst.

[eclipse]

Let this topic rest in peace. ;/