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Ashnard

Why all the hate for Sothe And Micaiah?

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The only thing I don't like about RD!Sothe is how he suddenly went from a cute skinny kid to this toned stud-muffin. 8U I get that people can grow, but can it happen THAT fast? It feels like they suddenly buffed him up JUST so he can be all taller and manly for Micaiah, which makes me hate the pairing a lot. Meh.

Three years can do a lot for a kid his age.

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To be honest, re-playing FE10 and taking a look at Sothe (and maybe even IKE), he doesn't seem...to be that much. I think he was more of, as I stated in an earlier topic, a 'late-bloomer' in FE9 (I assume he was at least 14, but my age for him is 15, in FE9), rather than him being really young and hitting a huge growth-spurt in three years. It's also stated, in the FE10 Q&A, that he actually grew 10 cm, which is very much reasonable. Sothe isn't really muscular. He's lean and pretty fit (low body fat, not muscular, like Ike/Tibarn/Zelgius), which is also something pretty reasonable, assuming these characters don't feed off McDonald's and fight on a regular basis.

The only silly thing (which I don't really mind), is the belly shirt that could very well be that he's using the same shirt he's been using since his younger days.

EDIT: I feel kind of silly, trying to put scientific reasoning, into video game characters. But c'mon, Sothe's growth isn't as much of an impact as Ike's...which is still pretty reasonable, in it's own right.

Edited by The Boss

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Micaiah hate: Epitome of how horribly nerfed mages were in Tellius, coupled with being a lord, equals absolute burden. This made everyone question her character outside her stats, and they assumed that a horrible unit getting so much attention could only be the work of a Mary Sue. Though honestly, the whole "LOL I'm actually Jesus" thing in the ending is just poisonous.

Sothe hate: He is to Volke what Rickard is to Julian: a poor man's substitute thief unit. Plus he basically got his persona changed from being similar to Rolf to being a carbon copy of Ike almost overnight.

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Micaiah hate: Epitome of how horribly nerfed mages were in Tellius, coupled with being a lord, equals absolute burden. This made everyone question her character outside her stats, and they assumed that a horrible unit getting so much attention could only be the work of a Mary Sue. Though honestly, the whole "LOL I'm actually Jesus" thing in the ending is just poisonous.

One doesn't hate a character for being a terrible unit (which, Micaiah is very far away from, being). However, under that context, it may just be understandable.

Sothe hate: He is to Volke what Rickard is to Julian: a poor man's substitute thief unit. Plus he basically got his persona changed from being similar to Rolf to being a carbon copy of Ike almost overnight.

"Carbon copy of Rolf to Ike"? Uh, yeah, no. Take another look at him.

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Micaiah hate: Epitome of how horribly nerfed mages were in Tellius, coupled with being a lord, equals absolute burden. This made everyone question her character outside her stats, and they assumed that a horrible unit getting so much attention could only be the work of a Mary Sue. Though honestly, the whole "LOL I'm actually Jesus" thing in the ending is just poisonous.

Sothe hate: He is to Volke what Rickard is to Julian: a poor man's substitute thief unit. Plus he basically got his persona changed from being similar to Rolf to being a carbon copy of Ike almost overnight.

Most people who hate sothe hate him for RD, where he is one of the most valuable units you have, so i don't think they hate him for his performance as an unit.

I personally like sothe, despite micaiah being the fe character i dislike the most

Edited by Nobody

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Micaiah hate: Epitome of how horribly nerfed mages were in Tellius, coupled with being a lord, equals absolute burden. This made everyone question her character outside her stats, and they assumed that a horrible unit getting so much attention could only be the work of a Mary Sue. Though honestly, the whole "LOL I'm actually Jesus" thing in the ending is just poisonous.

If I didn't like mages that required some (okay, a lot) of work, I'd despise Tormod/Sanaki. . .but I don't. It's HOW she was portrayed, not her archetype that I have a problem with.

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i personally really do like Micaiah, she was a unique lord and i think we need more of those.

also i put all the lords threw this mary sue quiz thingy, guess what the results were?

http://www.unc.edu/~jemarti/marysuetest/

Mary Sue scores

Ike: 75, Mary Sue

Robin: 57, Mary Sue

Lyn: 32, some sue traits, but not enough

Ephriam: 31, some sue traits, but not enough

Micaiah: 29 some mary sue qualitys, but not enough to be one (even if you don’t add in her flaws, she still isn’t one, but barely)

Hector: 26, some sue traits, but not enough (just barely makes this position)

Erika: 21, Well Balanced

Alm: 20, Well Balanced

Roy: 20, Well Balanced

Marth: 20, well balanced

Eliwood: 17, Well Balanced

Celice: 17, Well Balanced

Chrom: 15 Well Balanced

Leif: 12, Well Balanced

Celica: 7, Understated

Sigurd: 4, Anti Sue

not only did she not score as a mary sue, there's at least four people higher then her on the rankings.

don't get me wrong, i love Ike, and being a sue is not a bad thing, its how its handled.

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i personally really do like Micaiah, she was a unique lord and i think we need more of those.

also i put all the lords threw this mary sue quiz thingy, guess what the results were?

http://www.unc.edu/~jemarti/marysuetest/

Mary Sue scores

Ike: 75, Mary Sue

Robin: 57, Mary Sue

Lyn: 32, some sue traits, but not enough

Ephriam: 31, some sue traits, but not enough

Micaiah: 29 some mary sue qualitys, but not enough to be one (even if you don’t add in her flaws, she still isn’t one, but barely)

Hector: 26, some sue traits, but not enough (just barely makes this position)

Erika: 21, Well Balanced

Alm: 20, Well Balanced

Roy: 20, Well Balanced

Marth: 20, well balanced

Eliwood: 17, Well Balanced

Celice: 17, Well Balanced

Chrom: 15 Well Balanced

Leif: 12, Well Balanced

Celica: 7, Understated

Sigurd: 4, Anti Sue

not only did she not score as a mary sue, there's at least four people higher then her on the rankings.

don't get me wrong, i love Ike, and being a sue is not a bad thing, its how its handled.

My dislike for micaiah has nothing to do with her being a mary sue. I actually dislike her because of her flaws. If she was a mary sue, I'd enjoy her more, believe it or not.

And I really think Eliwood should be higher on that list.

Edited by Nobody

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I've heard people getting wildly varying scores based on the "Sue" test, so I wouldn't take those as anything but opinion. . .especially Micaiah.

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I've heard people getting wildly varying scores based on the "Sue" test, so I wouldn't take those as anything but opinion. . .especially Micaiah.

well of course, different people have different views on the characters.

i just posted what i got, i mean if someone wants to contest this then they just have to put the characters threw it themselves, which might be what your referring.

but its alright, cause everyone can have different opinions

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I can generally agree with that list if Ike wasn't in the 70s mark, and that Eirika is less of a Sue than Lyn.

But I digress. I dislike Micaiah as a unit, I dislike the amount of time I get to train her, and therefore use BXP on her, and by the time the end came through, I was seriously glad Ike stole the spotlight.

As for Sothe, I like his early Oifey-like status, but he's still a thief, and they just aren't good by the end. I also don't like that he's forced to bring in the game.

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i personally really do like Micaiah, she was a unique lord and i think we need more of those.

also i put all the lords threw this mary sue quiz thingy, guess what the results were?

http://www.unc.edu/~jemarti/marysuetest/

Mary Sue scores

Ike: 75, Mary Sue

Robin: 57, Mary Sue

Lyn: 32, some sue traits, but not enough

Ephriam: 31, some sue traits, but not enough

Micaiah: 29 some mary sue qualitys, but not enough to be one (even if you don’t add in her flaws, she still isn’t one, but barely)

Hector: 26, some sue traits, but not enough (just barely makes this position)

Erika: 21, Well Balanced

Alm: 20, Well Balanced

Roy: 20, Well Balanced

Marth: 20, well balanced

Eliwood: 17, Well Balanced

Celice: 17, Well Balanced

Chrom: 15 Well Balanced

Leif: 12, Well Balanced

Celica: 7, Understated

Sigurd: 4, Anti Sue

not only did she not score as a mary sue, there's at least four people higher then her on the rankings.

don't get me wrong, i love Ike, and being a sue is not a bad thing, its how its handled.

How The Avatar isn't top of the top of the tops in the Sue list is way beyond my level of understanding and will forever be that way.

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Actually I can see that. But it's important to remember that the Mary Sue test was designed for created characters. While it can be adapted for games, shows, and movies, its primary purpose isn't for video game characters.

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Actually I can see that. But it's important to remember that the Mary Sue test was designed for created characters. While it can be adapted for games, shows, and movies, its primary purpose isn't for video game characters.

pretty much this.

which is my main issue with people calling her a sue, because she ain't one in the game, and she doesn't score sue on these tests.

sue has became the word for "character i don't like who gets spotlight" you have no idea how much and for how long this has upset me.

Edited by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

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One doesn't hate a character for being a terrible unit (which, Micaiah is very far away from, being).

So getting doubled on Easy Mode by every enemy imaginable is the sign of a good unit, is it?

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You're kind of exaggerating how much Micaiah gets doubled there as well. I'm not gonna claim she's some hidden speedster or something, but it's nowhere near as bad as that. For example, Micaiah's speed cap is 33 while Nolan's is 35 (and lets face it, you're likely gonna BEXP abuse them up). Is that extra speed important? Sure, but is it so much important that Micaiah gets dropped to 'horrible' while Nolan gets praised? Not really.

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You're kind of exaggerating how much Micaiah gets doubled there as well. I'm not gonna claim she's some hidden speedster or something, but it's nowhere near as bad as that. For example, Micaiah's speed cap is 33 while Nolan's is 35 (and lets face it, you're likely gonna BEXP abuse them up). Is that extra speed important? Sure, but is it so much important that Micaiah gets dropped to 'horrible' while Nolan gets praised? Not really.

You're completely ignoring her part 1 and 3 performance where most things double her and if they don't they still kill her in one hit.

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You're completely ignoring her part 1 and 3 performance where most things double her and if they don't they still kill her in one hit.

which is very true, but she shouldn't be getting attacked in the first place.

the correct angle to attack her usefulness with her speed issue is that her low speed means she's not doubling, but neither is any other magic user because they all got nerfed.

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You're completely ignoring her part 1 and 3 performance where most things double her and if they don't they still kill her in one hit.

On hard mode.

On normal mode with moderate use only fast enemies like myrmidons should be doubling her. I don't play easy mode, but I can't imagine most enemies doubling or one-hitting her there as long as she's actually being leveled.

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So getting doubled on Easy Mode by every enemy imaginable is the sign of a good unit, is it?

If you're not training her (which, I don't doubt, you could very well be doing), then of course she's going to get doubled. The enemies in that mode are so wimpy, so you either got to get ridiculously screwed or not train her enough to get her to that level.

It's not like you could could exactly complain about Spd screwage, either. BEXP comes so so cheap, in that mode.

Edited by Big Boss

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Yeah, I've only played RD once, on normal mode, and I don't remember she getting doubled that much

Edited by Nobody

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May I ask a question?

Why does it seem like no one here is capable of defending/clearing units on the player phase? I mean, geez, for a game series focused on strategy there seems to be an outright adversion to things like 'checking enemy ranges' and 'killing enemies that can hit vulnerable targets' and a lot more of 'overpower enemies through sheer statistical force and bashing forwards without regard' followed by a mighty strategy void before hitting 'micromanaging every little detail to complete the map in as few turns as possible'. Sure, a unit like Rolf may need you to clear out any enemy or else one will likely attack him in melee if possible, but not only is it fairly easy to do so, but the penalty REALLY isn't that bad.

Yet it almost sounds like just having Micaiah fielded will result in a major burden because the player has to POTENTIALLY check the range every ONCE IN A WHILE or else Micaiah MIGHT end up getting attacked and POSSIBLY doubled on ONE MODE. Like, seriously, what? I'd think even a basic level of strategy would negate that problem.

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