Rate the pairings

[Arenblier]

Well, I have made two gameplays lines for me: Fem!MU and Male!MU. Both started on normal difficult so i could get used to the game and pairing stuff. Now i'm playing both of them on hard difficult and I plan to make the Fem!MU (which i'm more used to) on the Lunnatic mode.

With that explained, i'm asking for a couple of advises, you know. I'm aiming for Apotheosis DLC on normal difficult so...yeah

Fem!MU Line Pairings:

MUxChrom: MU is a Grandmaster, +LCK -DEF, Galeforce, Ignis, Solidarity, Veteran*, Relief* (I really want to trade those two, any tips?) ; Chrom is the usual Great Lord, all four basic skills, don't know which skill put as the fifith.

Children: Lucina, Great Lord; Basic Skills plus Galeforce from MU; Morgan is a Grandmaster just like his mother; Rightful King, Solidarity, Galeforce, Ignis, Veteran* (same from the MU doubt)

LissaxLon'qu: I saw somewhere that they produce a very good Owain (Stat speaking). Lissa final class is Sage. Skill list is Miracle, Healtouch, Relief, Tomefaire and Galeforce. I'm training Lon'qu to be an assassin (Lethality), he got all skills from Myrmidom and Swordmaster classes.

Child: Owain went to the Assassin, Myrmidom skills, Astra and Galeforce. Don't really know how to work more.

FrederickxOlivia: Olivia can kick Frederick's ass and that's funny. Olivia right now have Special Dance, Galeforce, Luck +4, Astra and Vantage and she is doing really great. Frederick on the other is giving me trouble, right now he is a Paladin, skills are Discipline, Outdoor Fighter, Defender, Luna and Dual Guard+.

Child: Oh, Inigo. He is staying on Hero class. Armsthrift, Patience, Luna and Galeforce, soon he will get Sol.

SullyxVaike: Vaike got Hero class, skills are HP+5, Zeal, Rally Strength, and Counter (I will get better skills for him). Sully went Great Knight, don't really know if will work out. Skills still are Discipline, Outdoor Fighter and Luna.

Child: Blonde Kjelle hell yeah. Skill tree is Defense +2, Indoor Fighter, Luna and Counter. I really like her that way.

Virion: Not worth a bride.

StahlxCordelia: Stahl is a Paladin, exacly same skill tree as Frederick (Discipline, Outdoor Fighter, Defender, Luna and Dual Guard+.). Cordelia is doing perfect as a Hero. The only two skills I like in her are Galeforce and Sol. She still have Rally Movement, Speed+2 and Relief.

Child:: Damn it Severa, I love you. Armsthrift, Patience, Luna, Galeforce. Hero Class. Damn it Severa, what's with that hair?

MirielxRicken: Miriel is awesome, I really liker her, low defense and little HP on the beginning really are a pain in the neck. Right now she is a Sorcerer, Magic+2, Focus, Vengeance, Hex and Anathema. Ricken went to Great Knight to pass down Luna to Laurent (Don't know if it's a good or bad idea), Magic+2, Outdoor Fighter, Luna, Discipline and Focus.

Child: Laurent is a perfect Dark Knight, for me it's his class. Magic+2, Focus, Vengeance and Luna.

SumiaxHenry: Cute pairing btw. Sumia went Dark Flier to get Galeforce, skills are the basics: Speed +2, Relief, Rally Movement, Rally Speed. She is a Falcon Knight right now. Henry went to Dark Knight so he could pass Lifetaker to Cynthia. His stills are Hex, Anathema, Slow Burn and Lifetaker, he is an assassin so I can get Lethality.

Child: Cynthia is a good daughter, I really want her to fulfill her Hero Dream and blah blah blah. So here, Galeforce and Lifetaker so you can kill two enemies in one round (And still get some HP).

KellamxCherche: Not a pairing that I enjoyed, but saw on the internet universe that a good Gerome can come out of this. Kellam went Great Knight, skills: Defende+2, Indoor Fighter, Luna, Rally Defense and Pavise. Cherche (beautiful Cherche) stopped as a Wyvern Lord, Strenght+2, Tantivy, Deliverer, Lancebreaker and Renewal.

Child: Gerome is handsome with dark hair. Strenght+2, Tantivy, Renewal and Luna.

DonnelxNowi: The destruction pairing. Donnel has Underdog, Armsthrift, Aptitude, Patience and Sol. Like, Holly hell. Nowi has Odd Rhythm, Wyrsmbane, Slow Burn and Lifetaker. She finishes her job in an awesome speed.

Child: Nah. Got Aptitude and Lifetaker. You go girl.

MaribellexLibra: Maribelle is one of my favorite characters, but i don't really know how to use it. Resistance +2, Demoiselle, Galeforce, Speed+2, Relief is what I gave her. Libra went Dark Knight to end his class change, Healtouch (need to change), Miracle, Lifetaker, Rally Luck and Slow Burn.

Child: Brady went Sage, healtouch, miracle, galeforce and lifetaker. Skill and Magic ftw.

PannexGregor: Panne the taguel and Gregor the Human. I like it. Panne have Even Rhythm, Beastbane, Lancebreaker, Strenght+2 and Deliever. Gregor got to Swordmaster classes to get Astra, he already have Armsthrift, Patience and Sol.

Child: I acctualy haven't used Yarne, but he got Sol and Lancebreaker so I think its ok?

GaiusxTharja: Creepy lovely couple. Gaius have Locktouch, Movement+1, Pass and Lethality, should I give him something more? Precious Tharja has Hex, Anathema, Lifetaker, Vengeance and Tomebreaker, awesome Dark Knight.

Child: Noir went full sniper. Skill+2, Prescience, Lethality and Lifetaker.

Male!MU Line Pairings:

1th: MUxAnna: Made it on the previous save. Really enjoyed red-haired Morgan and I love Anna.

2th: MUxTiki: The Mar-Mar thing got me. Between her and Anna I had to do Anna, should I give a try to get Manakete Morgan?

3th: MUxLucina: I think it's strange (MY MU's are like...bro and sis, so Lucina is kind of family to Male!MU) but does it make a good Morgan?

For this one I still have my doubts. I will try to got ChromxSumia (That I don't really like) and some of my Fem!Mu pairings, but anyway, tips, anyone?

Ps: I have Smash Brethren 2 and I'm trying to buy Lost Bloodlines 2 to get Dread Scroll. So if you help me without the Dread Fighter class/Skill, I will thank you a lot.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Switch Lon'qu and Ricken, make Owain a sage.

[Randa]

I'd put Frederick with Cherche. Also if you ever attempt to do lunatic do not use a -def MU.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Randa

[MRDRHAWK]

Gregor!Yarne? ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. He wants more than AT & Myrm, though.

Based on those, I'd go:

Virion!Yarne (gets Wyvern/Bowbreaker/LT)

Gregor!Laurent (Vantage to complete the kamikaze build of VV/Wrath)

Lon'qu!Brady (Luna/Galeforce/Vantage/Deliverer... bah gawd the tools this Brady has)

Libra!Owain (dat Magic mod)

Vaike!Nowi (tanky as fuck + gets Luna)

Donnel!Sully (Galeforce Kjelle rah rah rah)

Ricken!Gerome (ehhhhhhhhhhh I don't want to waste Ricken)

I just don't bother with Kellam usually despite being a GK dad.

[Silver Lightning]

I'm not an expert on optimization, since I just go for the pairings I like and because I grind, everyone turns out ok. I will say, however, that Gregor!Yarne does make an excellent Berserker, and while not many people use Lonqu!Owain because of limiting skillsets, I do like him since he's a veritable speed demon. Other than the always wonderful and broken ChromxMU (I won't get into them since I'd probably never shut up), I can't really give advice on the others since I've never used those combinations.

Male!MU Line Pairings:

1th: MUxAnna: Made it on the previous save. Really enjoyed red-haired Morgan and I love Anna.

2th: MUxTiki: The Mar-Mar thing got me. Between her and Anna I had to do Anna, should I give a try to get Manakete Morgan?

3th: MUxLucina: I think it's strange (MY MU's are like...bro and sis, so Lucina is kind of family to Male!MU) but does it make a good Morgan?

For this one I still have my doubts. I will try to got ChromxSumia (That I don't really like) and some of my Fem!Mu pairings, but anyway, tips, anyone?

Ps: I have Smash Brethren 2 and I'm trying to buy Lost Bloodlines 2 to get Dread Scroll. So if you help me without the Dread Fighter class/Skill, I will thank you a lot.

I always recommend MUxTiki; I used on my Male MU save, and Manakete Morgan was awesome.

And I also feel the same about my MUs being siblings, so as interesting as MUxLucina is, I'd never do it since in my headcanon he's basically her uncle...

[LuxSpes]

First off, like it was already said, -DEF for Lunatic is a bad idea. I can't speak from experience having never tried the mode(yet), but I've seen plenty of people say that the Avatar needs all the defense he can get to survive through the first few chapters.

As for the pairings, I approve of ChromxMu since 1. Look at my sig and avatar and 2. Lucina gaining the Avatar's class pool and Morgan getting Rightful king gives you some very dangerous units.

For the other pairings, this was posted in another thread as being the best choice for each children:

You can probably find a lot of that scattered through the pages of this thread.

But since I'm a bored nice person, here you go:

Lissa: Ricken, Libra, Henry

Olivia: Chrom, Libra, Frederick

Maribelle: Gregor, Lon'qu, Henry

Sully: Donnel, Gaius, Vaike

Sumia: Henry, Chrom

Cordelia: Stahl, Vaike, Lon'qu

Cherche: Frederick, Stahl, Kellam

Panne: Stahl, Gregor, Virion

Miriel: Gregor, Lon'qu, any other Vantage user

Tharja: Gaius, Donnel, Lon'qu

Nowi: Gaius, Vaike, Donnel

Avatar can replace anyone as they are the best parent. Priority for the special daughters should be Noire > Kjelle > Nah. Galeforce should be passed if possible. Maximize GF and Luna.

Based on this, I would suggest:

-Ricken!Owain(even though I like LonQuXLissa support wise)

-Libra!Inigo(used this pairing in my first playthrough and Inigo was great)

-Lon'qu!Brady(Quick and lethal Brady)

-Stalh!Severa(again used on my 1st to great effect and Stalh and Cordelia complements each other on the battle field)

-Gregor!Laurent(good sorcerer Laurent)

-Gaius!Noire(I used her as a Bride with this pairing and she turned out really well)

-Donnel!Nah(I used it and Nah was pretty dangerous)

-Henry!Cynthia(Seems good on paper)

-Frederick!Gerome(Good physical Gerome that gets access to Luna)

-Virion!Yarne (Good wyvern Rider Yarne)

-Vaike!Kjelle(Strong physical Kjelle)

As for the MaMU run, I like Tiki!Morgan a lot and I love the support with Tiki

[Airship Canon]

Male!MU Line Pairings:

1th: MUxAnna: Made it on the previous save. Really enjoyed red-haired Morgan and I love Anna.

2th: MUxTiki: The Mar-Mar thing got me. Between her and Anna I had to do Anna, should I give a try to get Manakete Morgan?

3th: MUxLucina: I think it's strange (MY MU's are like...bro and sis, so Lucina is kind of family to Male!MU) but does it make a good Morgan?

To answer this, looking at gameplay only.

Lucina easily. [A proper Asset/Flaw combo (I.E. +SPD/SKL -DEF/LCK)] (Sumia or Olivia!)Lucina!Morgan is the strongest F!Morgan, hands down.

Anna and Tiki are just bad choices, really.

Anna offers nothing of note to Morgan.

Tiki is in a special area of suck for being strictly inferior to another character: She's another Nowi. That's IT. Except marrying Tiki doesn't give you 2 Nahs as compensation for being a terrible wife gameplay wise.

Furthermore, outside of pure tank, Manakete is awful.

[WrathN'Resolve]

To answer this, looking at gameplay only.

Lucina easily. [A proper Asset/Flaw combo (I.E. +SPD/SKL -DEF/LCK)] (Sumia or Olivia!)Lucina!Morgan is the strongest F!Morgan, hands down.

Anna and Tiki are just bad choices, really.

Anna offers nothing of note to Morgan.

Tiki is in a special area of suck for being strictly inferior to another character: She's another Nowi. That's IT. Except marrying Tiki doesn't give you 2 Nahs as compensation for being a terrible wife gameplay wise.

Furthermore, outside of pure tank, Manakete is awful.

... accurate

and to clarify, your morgan's final class should be PHYSICAL! if morgan gets Olivia! lucina as a parent, she should be nothing short of a hero for ending class, as the ridiculous skill will make Aether activate a solid 30% of the time (limit broken before pair up)

Olivia!Lucina!Morgan (Strength or speed/Luck or magic), as magic will be of no use anyway, and Luck is a dump stat

Galeforce

(limitbreaker) some sort of faire

Aether

vantage

Filler....Armsthrift? nah...... hmmm. maybe...AH! the much underrated, yet the extremely overpowered COUNTER!

Pair her up with a dread fighter to cover the resist, and you're gold.

BUT!

for those Sumia enthusiasts

Sumia!Lucina!morgan Strength or magic/luck or resist.

Galeforce

(Limitbreaker) pavise(luck flaw) Aegis (resist flaw)

Vantage

Aether

Armsthrift(pavise) counter(aegis), Aegis(limitbreaker)

go knock yourself out. oh, and the parenthesis means they're based off of earlier choices, happy hunting!

Edited November 4, 2013 by WrathN'Resolve

[Airship Canon]

... accurate

and to clarify, your morgan's final class should be PHYSICAL! if morgan gets Olivia! lucina as a parent, she should be nothing short of a hero for ending class, as the ridiculous skill will make Aether activate a solid 30% of the time (limit broken before pair up)

Olivia!Lucina!Morgan (Strength or speed/Luck or magic), as magic will be of no use anyway, and Luck is a dump stat

Galeforce

(limitbreaker) some sort of faire

Aether

vantage

Filler....Armsthrift? nah...... hmmm. maybe...AH! the much underrated, yet the extremely overpowered COUNTER!

Pair her up with a dread fighter to cover the resist, and you're gold.

BUT!

for those Sumia enthusiasts

Sumia!Lucina!morgan Strength or magic/luck or resist.

Galeforce

(Limitbreaker) pavise(luck flaw) Aegis (resist flaw)

Vantage

Aether

Armsthrift(pavise) counter(aegis), Aegis(limitbreaker)

go knock yourself out. oh, and the parenthesis means they're based off of earlier choices, happy hunting!

...

I'm going to have to point out that those builds are... not that great.

Lucina!Morgan should probably be physical- that's for sure. Her best classes are Sniper, Hero. However Magic isn't out of the question.

LCK or DEF should be flawed-- DEF if you can manage that, LCK otherwise. (DEF is preferred, since DEF and RES are the most pointless mods since the survival thresholds are either low enough that even Olivia can face tank (Throne 'zerker (who has the single hardest mono-hit in the game)'s laughable 30) or unattainable (Nightmare Sniper: 114)-- only 4 enemies have a respectable survival threshold (Celica's Sages- Wave 4 Secret Apo have a lovely 56 RES thresh) and in all cases you don't -need- those mods to deal with those survival thresholds, and DEF Flaw hits DEF, LCK, RES (LCK flaw hits your STR and MAG))

Aether is immensely powerful, but should always be used in conjunction with Luna and/or Ignis (Luna if your alternate attack stat is lower than about 54, Ignis if higher, Both if SKL is low or you -need- consistency with procs). The downside to Aether is its activation rate is rather low-- the point then is to run it side-by-side with another offense proc.

Pavise/Aegis are just not good.

Vantage is kind of a waste if you're not rolling magic, because you've got a dead zone where you're not using a brave weapon.

[WrathN'Resolve]

...

I'm going to have to point out that those builds are... not that great.

Lucina!Morgan should probably be physical- that's for sure. Her best classes are Sniper, Hero. However Magic isn't out of the question.

LCK or DEF should be flawed-- DEF if you can manage that, LCK otherwise. (DEF is preferred, since DEF and RES are the most pointless mods since the survival thresholds are either low enough that even Olivia can face tank (Throne 'zerker (who has the single hardest mono-hit in the game)'s laughable 30) or unattainable (Nightmare Sniper: 114)-- only 4 enemies have a respectable survival threshold (Celica's Sages- Wave 4 Secret Apo have a lovely 56 RES thresh) and in all cases you don't -need- those mods to deal with those survival thresholds, and DEF Flaw hits DEF, LCK, RES (LCK flaw hits your STR and MAG))

Aether is immensely powerful, but should always be used in conjunction with Luna and/or Ignis (Luna if your alternate attack stat is lower than about 54, Ignis if higher, Both if SKL is low or you -need- consistency with procs). The downside to Aether is its activation rate is rather low-- the point then is to run it side-by-side with another offense proc.

Pavise/Aegis are just not

Vantage is kind of a waste if you're not rolling magic, because you've got a dead zone where you're not using a brave weapon.

My sumia build is bad because sumia is a horrid parent.

The olivia build is actually as good as it gets. I am aware that aether is unreliable as a proc, but given braves, and the aforementioned vantage, Aether will become a dependanle proc, will heal the damage required for vantage to activate, and will then, realistically, activate a dualstrike until death, essentially attacking before your opponent can retaliate.

[Shadow Mir]

My sumia build is bad because sumia is a horrid parent.

The olivia build is actually as good as it gets. I am aware that aether is unreliable as a proc, but given braves, and the aforementioned vantage, Aether will become a dependanle proc, will heal the damage required for vantage to activate, and will then, realistically, activate a dualstrike until death, essentially attacking before your opponent can retaliate.

That's a pretty horrid excuse. I'd never, ever recommend Counter for any reason.

[Airship Canon]

My sumia build is bad because sumia is a horrid parent.

The olivia build is actually as good as it gets. I am aware that aether is unreliable as a proc, but given braves, and the aforementioned vantage, Aether will become a dependanle proc, will heal the damage required for vantage to activate, and will then, realistically, activate a dualstrike until death, essentially attacking before your opponent can retaliate.

...Sumia's mods and Olivia's mods are close enough to say that S!L!M and O!L!M are virtually the same.

And your Olivia build was pretty bad.

Vantage doesn't help a proc become reliable, so why it's here is irrelevant.

Lone Aether is never a smart idea-- Yes, it's reliable to say you will likely see an Aether given all 4 attacks, however, that's not a reliable skill, nor is it taking advantage of Aether's real potential.

Just throwing some numbers out there-- going with my [sniper] [+SPD/-LCK] O!L!M used for that Apo run that I'm a bit too proud of...

With 63 SKL Across 4: Aether is at 88%.

However, across 2: 52%

52% is -hardly- reliable.

Then full power S!L!M (1 SKL over O!L!M) with a surge: 94 SKL

93% to nail one in 4 attacks.

71% for 1 in 2.

The idea when using Aether is to combine it with either Luna or Ignis so if you're not proccing Aether, you ARE proccing Luna or Ignis. Using these skills in conjunction is where the real advantage comes in.

And Counter is always bad.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Just throwing some numbers out there-- going with my [sniper] [+SPD/-LCK] O!L!M used for that Apo run that I'm a bit too proud of...

Just a bit?

That's a pretty horrid excuse. I'd never, ever recommend Counter for any reason.

Was there any counter in there?

[Shadow Mir]

Was there any counter in there?

He actually recommended Counter for both builds he served up.

[Arenblier]

Switch Lon'qu and Ricken, make Owain a sage.

Today I got 35$ credits on eShop, now Dread Fighter is accessible to me. So... Dead Fighter Ricken!Owain?

I'd put Frederick with Cherche. Also if you ever attempt to do lunatic do not use a -def MU.

I tried this one some saves ago. Really enjoyed, gonna try again. Also, thanks for the "no -def on lunatic", but which one should I flaw?

Gregor!Yarne? ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. He wants more than AT & Myrm, though.

Based on those, I'd go:

Virion!Yarne (gets Wyvern/Bowbreaker/LT)

Gregor!Laurent (Vantage to complete the kamikaze build of VV/Wrath)

Lon'qu!Brady (Luna/Galeforce/Vantage/Deliverer... bah gawd the tools this Brady has)

Libra!Owain (dat Magic mod)

Vaike!Nowi (tanky as fuck + gets Luna)

Donnel!Sully (Galeforce Kjelle rah rah rah)

Ricken!Gerome (ehhhhhhhhhhh I don't want to waste Ricken)

I just don't bother with Kellam usually despite being a GK dad.

Virion!Yarne to Wyvern Lord?

Lon'qu!Brady for what class?

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Today I got 35$ credits on eShop, now Dread Fighter is accessible to me. So... Dead Fighter Ricken!Owain?

I tried this one some saves ago. Really enjoyed, gonna try again. Also, thanks for the "no -def on lunatic", but which one should I flaw?

Virion!Yarne to Wyvern Lord?

Lon'qu!Brady for what class?

Sage Ricken!Owain.

I use Warrior Virion!Yarne, but BK is good as well. As long as he makes use of Bowfaire.

Lon'qu!Brady should also be Sage.

[Arenblier]

Sage Ricken!Owain.

I use Warrior Virion!Yarne, but BK is good as well. As long as he makes use of Bowfaire.

Lon'qu!Brady should also be Sage.

Ok. Sage Ricken!Owain, thanks :)

[MRDRHAWK]

Virion!Yarne to Wyvern Lord?

Lon'qu!Brady for what class?

Go Griffon Rider first for Deliverer, then go WL.

Meanwhile, Lon'qu can pass Vantage to Brady and gives him good mods.

I use Warrior Virion!Yarne, but BK is good as well. As long as he makes use of Bowfaire.

Lon'qu!Brady should also be Sage.

You do know that Bowfaire Warrior is a joke build, right?

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

You do know that Bowfaire Warrior is a joke build, right?

It's actually really powerful, with bows killing fliers. No Dragon Lord, Falcoknight, or Dark Flier stands up to Kjelle and Yarne in my game. It gives Yarne ridiculous power.

[Airship Canon]

You do know that Bowfaire Warrior is a joke build, right?

You do know the only problem with it is that Warrior doesn't give +SPD and gives a rather useless +DEF, right?

It's nearly as strong as 'zerker, but has more SKL [slightly better Dual Strike chance] and is always WTN [Not like there's threatening Sword guys besides the Ikeadin anyways, but w/e].

It's pretty bad on Yarne (who really doesn't need to use a not-as-good-as-a-zerk build, because he has natural 'zerk), but better than the pally builds for Gerome.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Airship Canon

[WrathN'Resolve]

...Sumia's mods and Olivia's mods are close enough to say that S!L!M and O!L!M are virtually the same.

And your Olivia build was pretty bad.

Vantage doesn't help a proc become reliable, so why it's here is irrelevant.

And Counter is always bad.

Okay... Fine. Counter is pretty bad, but I don't like Armsthrift out of sorcs, because... Hammernes are common enough that the likelihood of wasting a forged brave is nil. So... Replace it with Luna or AT

Vantage does not DIRECTLY affect Aether, Per se. But It DOES allow you to attack first under 50% health then, when you attack twice (brave) you will PROBABLY proc Aether. Maybe it isn't above 60% proc rate like other procs are, but it's likely enough that at least I would find it dependable when braving.

[Meteor]

Yeah I think you just have a unique definition of what dependable means. If the brakes in your car worked 52% of the time you wouldn't call them dependable.

[WrathN'Resolve]

Yeah I think you just have a unique definition of what dependable means. If the brakes in your car worked 52% of the time you wouldn't call them dependable.

Meh.

probably, maybe i'm just lucky with procs then.

half the time it works? seems like at least 70% of the time i'm aethering. I understand it's a bit of a childish way of looking at it, but this game isn't JUST mathematical. it's tactical, and takes some realistic reasoning that if you attack twice before your opponent hits you, you're probably going to have used aether.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Meh.

probably, maybe i'm just lucky with procs then.

half the time it works? seems like at least 70% of the time i'm aethering. I understand it's a bit of a childish way of looking at it, but this game isn't JUST mathematical. it's tactical, and takes some realistic reasoning that if you attack twice before your opponent hits you, you're probably going to have used aether.

Probably is not certainly. The RNG can be a complete dick sometimes. It actually is very mathematical, and being tactical isn't hoping that your going to proc aether. It's being prepared for anything.

[shadowofchaos]

Meh.

probably, maybe i'm just lucky with procs then.

half the time it works? seems like at least 70% of the time i'm aethering. I understand it's a bit of a childish way of looking at it, but this game isn't JUST mathematical. it's tactical, and takes some realistic reasoning that if you attack twice before your opponent hits you, you're probably going to have used aether.

What they're saying is that you're hyping up the Vantage + Aether combo a little bit too much.