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Attack on Lunatic: Light12x's Lunatic Mode Play Log


Light12x
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So I've been playing Awakening for quite some time, I've beaten the game on Hard several times with different Avatar builds and team pairings and such. But the only time I tried Lunatic, I got beat back really hard very early on, so I just derped around on Hard more. I was talking to some friends and they suggested I come to Serene's Forest for some help on planning my revenge on the true "hard" mode.

Essentially, I'd like to ask for your help in planning my team for my Lunatic run, and I'll be keeping a log of the run here as well.

The team I use the most in my Hard mode runs is this:

[spoiler=Main Team]

Chrom x Avatar (+mag/-str, tome-only build)

Vaike x Lissa

Stahl x Sully

Lon'qu x Cherche'

Libra x Tharja

Henry x Miriel

Gregor (bot) x Nowi

Morgan (tome-only just like mommy) x Lucina (siblings but still awesome)

I'm open to any ideas for other avatar builds, team members, marriage pairings and children builds. This team did not get me far on Lunatic, so I was hoping I can get wiser foresight here.

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Not sure if you're into optimization but these pairings, apart from ChromxAvatar and VaikexLissa, won't produce the best children. Still, it's nice to see people trying different things from me, lol.

I have zero experience on Lunatic, but I heard reclassing works wonders for some units and, if you just want to beat the game without any grinding for skills, children characters are very helpful.

Edited by Malebolganone
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Avatar (+Def or +HP) x Chrom and Frederick x Sumia are great pairings for strictly in-game stuff. With Sumia as a Pair Up, Frederick can get ferried to good locations for enemy-hase combat and can also double lots of enemies due to Sumia's boost.

Panne x Lon'qu and Nowi x Gregor are also good. Nowi needs a bit of babying to get to critical mass. Panne really wants a Second Seal to reclass to Wyvern Rider.

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Panne (oh God what was wrong with Velvet?) to Wyvern Rider is the best spent Second Seal. She gets good stat boosts upon reclassing and gains experience very quickly. Starting with Bronze Axe doesn't hurt her since she still hits hard. Keep her away from enemy mages, though, since she has pathetic Res.

Edited by Malebolganone
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As mentioned MU should have +def or + hp. The early game durability boost is crucial.

Chrom is best used a pair bot typically, he needs a second seal or master seal for two range combat which hurts him badly.

Other good units include; Miriel (huge chip from behind people/walls and can get Nosferatu), Lon'qu (early game doubling+dodging and has the wyvern tree), Panne (Reclass to wyvern -> win), Nowi (stay as Manakete all game), Gregor (second seal to Barb so he can learn axes and be an Axefaire!Hero late-game) and Tiki (pair with someone who supports her).

Second seal priority in early game is Panne > Gregor > Lon'qu > MU.

This is who I've found to be good. Others might disagree.

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This team did not get me far on Lunatic, so I was hoping I can get wiser foresight here.

Many of the people who struggle with Lunatic tend to have one thing in common, a bad habit picked up from Hard mode: they are using too many units.

You have a solid core, but if you try to train that many earlygame characters (you have eight that show up prior to Ch5), Lunatic is going to chew you up. Enemy stats are much higher than in Hard mode, and you'll be facing impossible forges on top of that, in addition to free skills that people don't normally get (like +HIT skills in the mid-to-late game). The best answer to this, is to focus your resources into a smaller number of people, so that you can keep up statistically.

AvatarxChrom is excellent (though I'd recommend +DEF/-SKL or +DEF/-LCK), and the Lucina plus Morgan sibling pair is also a good idea. This gives you four units -- three of which are great (Chrom is merely "good" here) -- that can all support each other in multiple configurations, which is really useful. Lissa as a healer is fine; she takes from the Staff EXP pool, which makes her considerably easier to work into an army. She can be dropped for Maribelle if you prefer, or if she gets screwed early.

You should strongly consider SumiaxFrederick, as suggested elsewhere. They cover up each other's weaknesses pretty effectively, which is important for Lunatic. Sumia needs the DEF and STR to survive and make her hits count, and Frederick needs the SPD in order to stay relevant as enemies grow faster than he does (and the RES helps, since he has none). Both benefit from mobility: Sumia from the +1 MV, Frederick from the ability to be ferried over terrain. An alternate configuration here would be Stahl + Cordelia, which offers similar benefits, but a slower start and a superior lategame (Frederick tends to fall off, but Stahl never does, and Cordelia is strictly superior to Sumia combat-wise when she gets going).

Gregor and N.O.W.I. are amazing, and I strongly support using Gregor as the permanent Support unit in this pairing. Promote Gregor to Bow Knight when you no longer need his +DEF bonus. N.O.W.I. becomes so strong lategame after training (keep her as a Manakete, just reclass back into Manakete when she hits 30) that she can cover up mistakes easily.

The other pairings are fine, but take care not to go overboard. I'd do something like this:

Avatar/Chrom

Sumia/Frederick (or Stahl/Cordelia)

Lissa or Maribelle

N.O.W.I./Gregor

Morgan/Lucina

One more pairing of your choice (MAYBE two if you are not going heavy into earlygame units)

That will allow you to pretty easily handle Lunatic, at least from a personnel standpoint. Keep a close eye on your unit advancement relative to enemies, and keep in mind that Valm presents a big upgrade in difficulty (so be over-prepared for it). Depending on how your run is going, you might be able to spin in extra partners as needed.

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I've never been fond of building marriages in the interest of children, since they take a while to show up, and some like Owain suffer from bad-parent syndrome.

I've heard about using Panne as a Wyvern Lord, I might have her pair with Lon'qu in place of Cherche', or with someone who can give her Res if she's desperate for it.

I never thought about using a smaller team actually. I always thought that the sheer amount of enemies on Lunatic would be too overwhelming.

There's no way I can give up Skill for my avatar, but I'm ok with using HP or Def as an asset, I'd probably make the flaw either Str or Mag, since I don't like to use both tomes and weaponry because I feel like using both takes away from making one even better. With +HP/Def and -Str/Mag in mind, which reclass options would be good for the avatar? I suppose we'd have to compare the good +HP/Def -Str build VS +HP/Def -Mag build and compare the best reclass/promotion options. I personally favor Mag because in general, enemies tend to have lower Res than Def and nuking reds with bursts of magic always feels so good.

I guess Fematar is better than male because xChrom, so I'll roll with the following so far:

Chrom x Avatar (+HP/Def -Str/Mag)

Stahl x Cordelia (never liked Frederdick)

RussianSpeedBot9000 x Nowi

Miriel x Henry

Lon'qu x Panne (w.lord)

Marribelle (because higher Mag than Lissa, better healing)

Morgan/Lucina (maybe)

Edited by Light12x
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Err, you forgot about Healtouch for Lissa...

Having a higher Mag growth is much better in the long run, also I can give Marribelle a 2nd Seal to get her heal touch if she really needs it, since she's drawing from the staff exp pool it wouldnt be a waste of a 2nd seal to grind her out.

Edited by Light12x
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The sheer number of enemies in Lunatic CAN be overwhelming (this is undeniably an Enemy Phase focused game), but the advantage of a smaller team is that your individual units are better equipped to deal with the extra attention.

Avatar with a DEF asset and a Frederick support in the earlygame is basically unkillable, for example: your effective DEF is so much higher than enemy mt, that only mages are bothersome. N.O.W.I. functions this way as well, except she does it without caring about her support partner, and for DEF/RES both. Panne is the "dodgetank" version; with her crazy SPD, Tantivy, Quick Burn and Even Rhythm, she can reach the point where enemies have 0% listed HIT against her.

But none of these units get to this status unless you plow a bunch of resources into them (EXP, stat boosters, whatever). That's where the advantage of the small team comes in. Avatar can be crazy good, but not if you're simultaneously also trying to feed Chrom, Sully, Stahl, Miriel, and Vaike. You need to reach that tipping point first. Eventually the Lunatic enemies catch up to your stats, once people reach their tier 2 caps, but by that point you have enough trained units that you can switch to Player Phase dominance instead for the last few chapters.

Panne is good, but if you're going with Cordelia and also training N.O.W.I. and Lon'qu, you may run into a resource crunch (they all show up at roughly the same time). Cherche is a perfectly suitable Wyvern Lord if that's the case. Panne is better, but Cherche shows up at a point when you've already trained all of the other Generation 1 units, so she can be stuffed full of EXP almost immediately. It will just be her, Lucina, and Morgan on the wagon. Cordelia is your combat flier up to that point, and Sumia is still available for spot-duty, so you're not left swinging. I'd recommend making the decision when you get there.

My personal preference for Avatar is to roll through Mercenary. I choose -SKL over -LCK because I like Armsthrift. She and Morgan get to max effectiveness pretty easily (Avatar because of overleveling, Morgan because of inheritance), and that allows you to give them crazy maxed forges without needing to worry about replacing them. Granted, this is more useful in Lunatic+. Keep in mind that MAG flaw takes 1 off your max SPD if you go with that.

I guess Fematar is better than male because xChrom, so I'll roll with the following so far:

Chrom x Avatar (+HP/Def -Str/Mag)

Stahl x Cordelia (never liked Frederdick)

RussianSpeedBot9000 x Nowi

Miriel x Henry

Lon'qu x Panne (w.lord)

Marribelle (because higher Mag than Lissa, better healing)

Morgan/Lucina (maybe)

This is pretty good. Remember to watch your unit levels while you are playing, and make adjustments if someone is going to fall behind or you can't train them.

EDIT: and on the healing front, if Lissa/Maribelle are not working, you can use Anna. She's a good fighter up to the Valm arc.

Edited by Interceptor
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Having a higher Mag growth is much better in the long run, also I can give Marribelle a 2nd Seal to get her heal touch if she really needs it, since she's drawing from the staff exp pool it wouldnt be a waste of a 2nd seal to grind her out.

Wrong. Maribelle does not have Cleric among her classes. And are you really trying to hype a marginally higher Magic growth as being better in the long run?

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The healing thing is sort of irrelevant. Lissa and Maribelle are best healers 1A and 1B, in my opinion; which one you pick depends on what you intend to do with them long-term.

You either get the Cleric set or the Mage set, and a Prologue join or a Ch5 join. Lissa needs to promote to have offense, Maribelle can reclass @10 for tomes. Maribelle can reach Demoiselle (limited usefulness in this group) and Dual Support+ faster. Both of them are pretty capable as Falcoknights for Rescue leapfrogging.

I prefer Lissa personally, but if she gets stat-screwed I'll drop her in a heartbeat for her best friend.

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I do think that the higher Mag growth will pull off in the long run over Heal Touch. Even with large investment on easier difficulties, Lissa get Mag screwed sometimes. I've even had her Str not only catch up but become greater than her Mag. A +10% overall growth rate difference (50% for Lissa as cleric, 60% for Marribelle as troub) in early game plus +2 starting mobility makes Marribelle much better for Mag only builds like straight healing or healing and nuking.

I'd rather use a straight magic build with Marribelle over Lissa's "spell-sword" (staff-lance) build as a Falco Knight for the same reason I want to avoid spell-swording with my Avatar, I'd rather have Str OR Mag be at its full potential as opposed to trying to level out both, and as I also stated earlier, most enemies have lower Res than Def.

On a side note, I'm starting to lean towards +Def and -Mag. I want to avoid -Str because of the -5% Def it gives, and I'm willing to take a -5% Spd for that cause since Chrom can help out in the speed department a bit if it really becomes an issue.

Edited by Light12x
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I don't usually get a lot of offense out of my healers/supports generally. I mean, it's nice to have them blow up a Knight or weaken a promoted unit into kill range, but the staff EXP gain in Lunatic is not great, and thus staff users have a tendency to fall behind statistically compared to your "real" combatants. The best healer I've ever had in a run was Miriel, because she was a hybrid that took from both pools.

Veteran is your best defense against stat screwage for Avatar/Morgan/Lucina in terms of growth rates. I only mentioned the SPD cap hit because you can't get past that; if you need a certain SPD value for something, make sure that the flaw doesn't cause an issue in lategame with whatever particular classes you are rolling with. Chrom helps you out a little bit here with his +1 SPD. You have a couple of legitimate MAG-users in Miriel and Henry, with a possible healer in the mix as well, so you won't be starving for magical damage if you go -MAG for the Family of Destructionâ„¢.

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Veteran is your best defense against stat screwage for Avatar/Morgan/Lucina in terms of growth rates. I only mentioned the SPD cap hit because you can't get past that; if you need a certain SPD value for something, make sure that the flaw doesn't cause an issue in lategame with whatever particular classes you are rolling with. Chrom helps you out a little bit here with his +1 SPD. You have a couple of legitimate MAG-users in Miriel and Henry, with a possible healer in the mix as well, so you won't be starving for magical damage if you go -MAG for the Family of Destructionâ„¢.

That was exactly my intention. I'm planning to let Henry lead the pair with Nosferatu's and possibly even reclass for Life Taker if possible, and Make Miriel a Sage for the insane Mag boost to Henry, excellent Dual-Strike damage, and doubles as a healer in a pinch.

The only things is that I just have to cross my fingers and pray that the -5% Spd from my flaw doesn't kill me.

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I do think that the higher Mag growth will pull off in the long run over Heal Touch. Even with large investment on easier difficulties, Lissa get Mag screwed sometimes. I've even had her Str not only catch up but become greater than her Mag. A +10% overall growth rate difference (50% for Lissa as cleric, 60% for Marribelle as troub) in early game plus +2 starting mobility makes Marribelle much better for Mag only builds like straight healing or healing and nuking.

I'd rather use a straight magic build with Marribelle over Lissa's "spell-sword" (staff-lance) build as a Falco Knight for the same reason I want to avoid spell-swording with my Avatar, I'd rather have Str OR Mag be at its full potential as opposed to trying to level out both, and as I also stated earlier, most enemies have lower Res than Def.

On a side note, I'm starting to lean towards +Def and -Mag. I want to avoid -Str because of the -5% Def it gives, and I'm willing to take a -5% Spd for that cause since Chrom can help out in the speed department a bit if it really becomes an issue.

Maybe. But in general, I'd never expect Maribelle to outdo Lissa in healing once the latter hits level 10, barring massive RNG blessing on the part of the former. But in the end, it's your decision.

Edited by Levant Fortner
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Maybe. But in general, I'd never expect Maribelle to outdo Lissa in healing once the latter hits level 10, barring massive RNG blessing on the part of the former. But in the end, it's your decision.

That's not true. At best, Lissa's best possible Mag growth in the whole game is 55% as a Mage, Sage, Troub or Valkyrie which you'd need to use Master and 2nd seals to get. Marribelle starts off with 60% upon recruitment and only stays that way into promotion. The only way Lissa could keep up at any point past level 10 is if her Mag stat it at most 5 less than Marribelle's at any given time, which I'd rather not waste seals to get a CHANCE of that happening when I can just use someone who will ultimately have more Mag by a lot and therefore heal much more health per use, as well has better default mobility to reach those who need healing without, again, wasting 2nd seals (to give Lissa a pegasus).

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That's not true. At best, Lissa's best possible Mag growth in the whole game is 55% as a Mage, Sage, Troub or Valkyrie which you'd need to use Master and 2nd seals to get. Marribelle starts off with 60% upon recruitment and only stays that way into promotion. The only way Lissa could keep up at any point past level 10 is if her Mag stat it at most 5 less than Marribelle's at any given time, which I'd rather not waste seals to get a CHANCE of that happening when I can just use someone who will ultimately have more Mag by a lot and therefore heal much more health per use, as well has better default mobility to reach those who need healing without, again, wasting 2nd seals (to give Lissa a pegasus).

No. Maribelle would need 12 magic over Lissa to outdo her when Healtouch is factored in (which, in all likelihood, ain't happening). Unless you forgot that this game doesn't use the same formula for healing from the GBA games and Tellius. And what's wrong with making Lissa a Troubadour?

Edited by Levant Fortner
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Heal Touch only adds 5 to the amount healed, if they're both using the same staff (which they are because it would be impossible to compare the two units if they aren't), and if they have the same amount of Mag, than Lissa would heal people by 5 more than Marribelle, obviously.

But if Lissa has 5 less Mag than Marribelle, then she would heal 5 less HP but the Heal Touch skill gives that 5 back. So if Marribelle's Mag was greater than Lissa's by at least 6, than even with Heal touch, Lissa would be healing less HP than Marribelle when using the same staff.

And why use a 2nd seal on Lissa when you can save it for Avatar or Panne?

Edited by Light12x
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Heal Touch only adds 5 to the amount healed, if they're both using the same staff (which they are because it would be impossible to compare the two units if they aren't), and if they have the same amount of Mag, than Lissa would heal people by 5 more than Marribelle, obviously.

But if Lissa has 5 less Mag than Marribelle, then she would heal 5 less HP but the Heal Touch skill gives that 5 back. So if Marribelle's Mag was greater than Lissa's by at least 6, than even with Heal touch, Lissa would be healing less HP than Marribelle when using the same staff.

And why use a 2nd seal on Lissa when you can save it for Avatar or Panne?

Perhaps you missed the part where I said this game does NOT use the same healing formula that the GBA and Tellius games did. Aside from Recover, the healing formula uses Mag/2 rather than the user's Mag (weapon rank bonuses do apply to staff healing, though).

Edited by Levant Fortner
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So then Marribelle would need 10 more Mag than Lissa, not 12.

Same staff, same proficiency takes out variables besides character specifics:

At any amount of Mag, if Marribelle and Lissa have the same amount of Mag, Lissa will heal only 5 more because

Lissa/2 + Staff + Prof + Heal Touch > Marribelle/2 + Staff + Prof

In order to make up those 5 points, Marribelle needs to gain 2 Mag for every 1 point of healing she is behind on, which would be:

Lissa/2 + Staff + Prof + Heal Touch = (Marribelle + 10)/2 + Staff + Prof

A 10 Mag advantage is something Marribelle is more than capable of with her good Mag growth, especially considering Lissa's vulnerability to being Mag screwed.

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