Unnamed Mafia (anon) - Game Over

[Grace]

Manix fix my iso thx

done

fixed the other broken iso's as well

[All Might]

yeah, fluffy platypus is my scumbuddy after I was voting him for most of D1... you can't look at the interaction from just one perspective. >_>

and consider something: when I claimed miller I was one of the first people to post. if I am scum, either that is me being incredibly gutsy by faking miller when I didn't know whether or not a town one existed, or that is manix giving me miller as a fake. if manix gave me miller as a fake, that is manix believing that two miller claims wouldn't be suspicious. and if that is the case then there is just as good a likelihood of manix actually including two millers.

[Aizen]

yeah, fluffy platypus is my scumbuddy after I was voting him for most of D1... you can't look at the interaction from just one perspective. >_>

Oh, uh, that's a good point actually, since he was a leading wagon this seems unlikely. I completely forgot that he was a wagon. (If he wasn't a wagon I'd say that's not a valid point, since voteparking your scumbuddy when they're not a wagon allows for distancing later.) On the other hand he was sort of an inactivity wagon so it's not surprising that the wagon fell apart. Overall, though, that does severely reduce the buddying interaction.

I still think you're scum, though--I think you were taking that shot in the dark like you said. "I wanna miller fakeclaim, there's only 9p so there's probably no miller" is a reasonable thing to do at the start of the game.

Unless there's no cop, of course...

[Aizen]

Oh wait, the "Unless there's no cop" was the last step in an internal thought process. It was supposed to be "I think 2 actual millers in 9p is just unreasonable, unless there's no cop, of course..."

[All Might]

so wait

two millers if there is a cop is unreasonable, but two millers if there isn't a cop could work? please explain.

why is two millers + cop less likely than me being gutsy scum and randomly deciding to claim miller in the third post of the game? I couldn't have known whether or not there would even be a cop, and there could easily have been another miller if there was. most people would have claimed miller in iketani's situation right away. you seem to be completely blocked off to the two miller possibility (other than in the case when there isn't any cop???) even though the context of my claim suggests otherwise.

[Estelle]

Getting a bad vibe from the way Fluffy seems to automatically assume people are town rather than null, typically for reasons not actually related to alignment. For an example, why is Reinbach's content townie and not just scum writing content that looks decent?

Think Grill might be scum jumping on Iketani's flip to set up a second mislynch. "Miller Tracker" is already out there so I think we're just in a weird set-up (I also think Hot Wheels' play has been townie). Lynch on scum intent, not role speculation. Two millers isn't so unlikely it makes HW confirmed scum, so why is this a better push than Dragonite?

Still dislike Dragonite's scumhunting boiling down to questioning and a misplaced assumption about another player's alignment. Think his play resembles scum the most out of these three since he looks like he's doing something when he really isn't.

Since nighttalk is on, I expect Fluffy, Dragonite and NARS to use it after they missed a day.

[All Might]

actually the more I think about it the more I feel that manix purposely put two millers into the game to punish rolespec, since manix dislikes it.

I don't necessarily think that grill is scum just for not believing two millers. I didn't believe it when iketani claimed it either (in hindsight, I should have realized that there was no reason for her to make her claim less believable by adding miller to it if she was scum). just kind of not getting how he's willing to accept two millers + no cop when he's so adamantly against two millers + cop. other than that I don't really like his explanation for talking so much about the supposed omgus if he thought the whole thing was a nulltell.

in #68 when he first mentions it he says it's a bad argument. And in #74 he also talks about insane wanting to do it despite knowing it was bad or something, which is why he waited for something else to jump on. so how is the whole thing just a nulltell to him?

[Estelle]

I figured Iketani just added miller in the case of scans and was too new to consider incongruity with his actions.

Spilt milk, I guess.

[Aizen]

so wait

two millers if there is a cop is unreasonable, but two millers if there isn't a cop could work? please explain.

why is two millers + cop less likely than me being gutsy scum and randomly deciding to claim miller in the third post of the game? I couldn't have known whether or not there would even be a cop, and there could easily have been another miller if there was. most people would have claimed miller in iketani's situation right away. you seem to be completely blocked off to the two miller possibility (other than in the case when there isn't any cop???) even though the context of my claim suggests otherwise.

If there's no cop, Miller is meaningless, so anyone could be miller and it wouldn't matter. Two millers in a 9p game would nerf the cop a ton: with only 2 scum (presumably--is there any other number of scum possible for a 9p game?) a guilty scan results in only a 50% probability of guilty. So, the prospect of 2 millers and a cop seems really unlikely. But I guess I could be wrong...

other than that I don't really like his explanation for talking so much about the supposed omgus if he thought the whole thing was a nulltell.

in #68 when he first mentions it he says it's a bad argument. And in #74 he also talks about insane wanting to do it despite knowing it was bad or something, which is why he waited for something else to jump on. so how is the whole thing just a nulltell to him?

Bad argument means wrong, not scummy. I can see how #74 would look like me putting scum intent in IT's vote on me, but what I meant was more like, if A votes B, then B gets mad/annoyed/suspicious and looks for reasons to vote A. They know "he voted me" isn't a real reason, so they look for something else. All I meant is that getting voted by a person puts you in a suspicious mindset about them, so you're more likely to grasp for a vote on them. So, I don't really see scum intent in it, no.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Alright, I may not have explained myself well enough last time, so let me make up for it.

With my suspicion on Grillmaster, it hasn't subsided. I feel like he's dodging questions, especially concerning Iketani

Grillmaster never gave another read on Ike after it became a wagon. Distancing much? Grill asked Ike to comment on other players, but never gave his response on said comments beside that thing about miller (which isn't a read). I asked Grill about his comment on Beethoven and Hot Wheels because they has some 'real content', a fact which he remarked himself. If anyone's a hypocrite it's you.You told Ike that they had real content, implying that you wanted Ike to comment on them, even though you yourself had none. You then proceed to vote me for asking you to do the same thing. You then tells us that Iketani's crime is 'making jokes after it ceased to be appropriate' despite being the first to jump on Ike because of it. Be consistent for once, will you?

But yeah, I suppose you guys are right regarding my last post lacking content. On that note, reads on other players are coming soon!

[All Might]

is two millers in a 9p game nerfing a cop or making them stronger? realize that if both millers claim right away and are town and it's something like 7/2, since the cop isn't going to scan a miller, the chance of them getting a guilty following a day 1 mislynch on a non-miller/non-cop is something like 40%.

[Aizen]

With my suspicion on Grillmaster, it hasn't subsided. I feel like he's dodging questions, especially concerning Iketani

1. Grillmaster never gave another read on Ike after it became a wagon. Distancing much? Grill asked Ike to comment on other players, but 2. never gave his response on said comments beside that thing about miller (which isn't a read). I asked Grill about his comment on Beethoven and Hot Wheels because they has some 'real content', a fact which he remarked himself. If anyone's a hypocrite it's you. 3. You told Ike that they had real content, implying that you wanted Ike to comment on them, even though you yourself had none. 4. You then proceed to vote me for asking you to do the same thing. 5. You then tells us that Iketani's crime is 'making jokes after it ceased to be appropriate' despite being the first to jump on Ike because of it. Be consistent for once, will you?

But yeah, I suppose you guys are right regarding my last post lacking content. On that note, reads on other players are coming soon!

This is just SO much crap, literally everything in this post is wrong or missing the point. Inserted numbers in your post for reference.

1. False. I did, in #89, i.e. the response to where you voted me. Why are you not reading the post of the person you voted that responds to your vote?

2. Misses the point completely. Ike wasn't a scumread at the time; it was just a content prod. His content looked fine and I wasn't really in a mental state to pick it apart; why should I comment on it as opposed to anything else that happens in the game? (And no, it's not expected that every person comment on every thing that is said; that would result in an exponential number of comments.)

3. False. Content =/= reads. I'd been posting content--pushing my scumread, asking questions, etc. I was asking Ike for any content at all, which I had.

4. False. I voted you for hypocrisy and a fluffy, content-light post. Let me explain why the hypocrisy matters: hypocrisy, by itself, isn't a scumtell. After all, if you've been inactive through the first 3/4 of the day, and you see that someone has less content than they should, then you should be able to call them on it. But voting me because you think I don't have enough content, while simultaneously padding out your post with meaningless noncontent, looks scummy.

Here's the key point: I DIDN'T VOTE YOU FOR LACK OF CONTENT, that is, not posting enough stuff. I voted you for trying to make it look like you had more content than you did (among other things).

5. This is actually just nonsense. According to you, I said Ike did a scummy thing, and I had earlier gotten on Ike's case for doing that same scummy thing... what's your point? That's called being consistent, which you then accuse me of never being.

Overall, we've both admitted that the other was right to call us out on lack of content, so maybe we can drop the whole hypocrisy thing? My general stance is that it's OK to be a hypocrite if you're also right (or at least, if you're doing a bad thing, it's better to still be calling other people on that bad thing even if you're doing it).

[Aizen]

is two millers in a 9p game nerfing a cop or making them stronger? realize that if both millers claim right away and are town and it's something like 7/2, since the cop isn't going to scan a miller, the chance of them getting a guilty following a day 1 mislynch on a non-miller/non-cop is something like 40%.

How many millers in a 9p game with a cop would you consider unreasonable? 3? 4? My point is that if scum saw 2 legit miller claims, they might try to get in on the party and also claim miller. That would definitely reduce the power of the cop.

[Cú Chulainn]

What the deuce, we have night talk? Then when will I get my much deserved break from following these lurkers, tail wagging? Grillmaster continues his assault on fun, and I disagree that Reinbach's use of roleplay is scummy. The entire point of picking a persona is for roleplay fun, or doggy shenanigans if you will. Mine was unrelated to music I happened to be listening to, of course.

Rolespec is silly. Unless we have a Cop claim or flip there's no cause to even discuss lynching the miller on merits of his role.

Grillmaster is still scum in my eyes. Your votes have been reactive (i.e. on people who vote you), and I don't understand this line:

My current scumreads: Hot Wheels >> Dragonite > everyone else (FP only hits this list if he does something independently scummy or HW flips scum)

Basically, everyone is a scumread except for Fluffy Platypus. Who made one post. To vote the person who was jokevoting you, using some quasi-serious sophism about bad humour belying scummy intent. You're going to have to explain this to me, because this is a pretty significant buddy-up if my interpretation is correct. And no matter how I look at it, I cannot see a genuine Town member be so adamant about someone's Townieness based on a single quasi-serious post.

[Aizen]

Oh, eh, that wasn't supposed to mean I was scumreading everyone, I sort of combined scumreads/lynch priority. That post meant that the *only* people I thought were scummier than anyone else were Hot Wheels and Dragonite. FP was included in the "everyone else" who I didn't have a significant scumread on.

[Aizen]

Rolespec is silly. Unless we have a Cop claim or flip there's no cause to even discuss lynching the miller on merits of his role.

Why would a cop claim/flip impact our beliefs about the truth of Hot Wheels' miller claim? My working assumption is that, based on the presence of at least one confirmed (flipped) miller, there is a cop. My "millers with no cop" theory was about the potential for mod trolling, and that was not a really serious idea. I don't think we should seriously consider the possibility that there's a miller but no cop. Therefore, we assume there's a cop, therefore, the cop claim doesn't affect our belief of Hot Wheels' miller claim.

[Estelle]

Right now I have half a mind to lynch Fluffy tomorrow just for disappearing as soon as Iketani flips town. Get in here.

After some reconsideration I'm starting to feel Grillmaster is town for putting the most effort into the game and people are just finding it easy to nitpick at him because he says a lot. Dragonite comes out of the whole "hypocrite" argument looking at lot worse since there's mutual hypocrisy but Dragonite is grasping at it as a form of attack. I don't think I'm wording this right, but basically Dragonite comes off to me like he's looking for points to attack Grill on rather than looking for scum. I guess it's part gut?

[Estelle]

lol and Fluffy starts viewing the thread as soon as I say that

[Marisa Kirisame]

Right now I have half a mind to lynch Fluffy tomorrow just for disappearing as soon as Iketani flips town. Get in here.

k. I hate switching accounts.

Nothing's changed in my eyes aside from the fact that I'm believing Hot Wheels' original claim less now that Iketani flipped Miller. I'm not sure if Manix would use two Millers in the same game, which makes me think something's up with him. Not getting much else in terms of scummy vibes from anyone else through nighttalk. Grill's still bugging me, due to excessive focus on the potential 2x miller & cop aspect of the setup, as well as what I said of him before.

Current lynch priority for D2, IMO, is Grillmaster > Hot Wheels > NARS > everyone else, but Grill's the only one whom I'm currently confident would flip scum.

[Grace]

You all woke up to another day. A nice, rainy day. Good thing we don't do this thing outdoors!

A quick headcount totals 8... no one missing. "Strange", the collective town thinks to themselves.

It is now Day Two! With 8 alive, it takes 5 to hammer. You have 48 hours to decide on a lynch.

[Marisa Kirisame]

##Vote: Grillmaster

I've explained before why I feel like Grillmaster's the best lynch option. His content really doesn't sit well with me.

[Aizen]

So, you're not sure what to think of Hot

Nothing's changed in my eyes aside from the fact that I'm believing Hot Wheels' original claim less now that Iketani flipped Miller. I'm not sure if Manix would use two Millers in the same game, which makes me think something's up with him. Not getting much else in terms of scummy vibes from anyone else through nighttalk. Grill's still bugging me, due to excessive focus on the potential 2x miller & cop aspect of the setup, as well as what I said of him before.

Current lynch priority for D2, IMO, is Grillmaster > Hot Wheels > NARS > everyone else, but Grill's the only one whom I'm currently confident would flip scum.

So, you are starting to doubt Hot Wheels' miller claim based on the miller flip, but you find me scummy for doubting Hot Wheels' claim based on the miller flip? Or is it you find me scummy for rolespec? Neither makes much sense IMO.

##Vote: Hot Wheels because I don't believe the claim.

[Aizen]

Also, Fluffy--I responded to your claims against me, and explained why they are incorrect (#124). Care to respond?

[Estelle]

##Vote: Dragonite

Dragonite's focus has been on attacking Grillmaster by asking him questions and nitpicking at him which is easy because Grillmaster posts a lot of the words. The rest of his opinions either don't exist or are based on faulty wagon analysis, and even those are also outdated and just "that person's OK".

Grill please don't start this rolespec shit. Vote people (Draognite) because they're acting scummy, not because Manix makes weird set-ups.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I'm not voting you for either of those reasons, actually. My reasons for finding you scummy haven't changed from D1. But I'm leaning more towards Hot Wheels being your scumbuddy than anyone, since the only other option is Dragonite, and you just wanted to bus him.

Also, as for the #124 bit, I'm seeing it more as you looking like you're going after Dragonite to conceal buddying up, but I'm not sure what to make of Dragonite right now so I'm not pushing that option too hard. And what's with your opinion that "lol I have more scumreads so I'm townier than you"? That makes no sense and sounds like little more than arguing a point for the sake of arguing a point.

And as well, I'm not "lining up lynches", as you claim. I'm merely giving my priorities. Calm down on that point.