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Question concerning manaketes


Xenomic
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Of note, I myself haven't played any of the game, but have read up on some of them and the characters. So if I'm not knowledgeable on something, do excuse me. ^^;;

Concerning Manaketes (yes, I like manaketes. Tiki being my favorite of the bunch and my favorite FE character in general, despite never have played a FE game, while Nowi is getting up there, with Nah right behind her), do manaketes give birth like normal mammals, or do they lay eggs? Because seeing someone that looks like Nowi that's 9 months pregnant and/or giving birth seems...awkward, despite her age.

Which leads to question #2: Are manaketes born as humans or dragons? Because seeing a humanoid manakete giving birth to a dragon seems really weird too.

And finally, question #3: Do they all have their wings showing or do they magically hide them? Some of them you can clearly see in their art/sprites with wings (Mrryh being a prime example, but some male manaketes have them shown, and I think Tiki in the DS remakes does too), but not always are they (such as with Nah/Nowi and some others like Bantu).

Hopefully someone can shed light on this? I know it's not stated too heavily in canon data (as far as I know anyways) about any of this, and I was thinking of giving the guys an email but didn't think they'd really answer something like this. I don't know, this just was a random question that popped into mind one day between me and a friend when we were discussing Nowi in general. ^^;;

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Well as some of these questions are unanswered,all we can really do is speculate...

I would assume Manaketes give birth like normal mammals assuming how Nowi is always in humanoid form and can't transform with out a special stone that'll result in her transformation.

I think Manaketes are born as humans,considering how Ninian (likely) makes Roy,and she is part dragon.Making Roy half dragon,half human.As shown in FE 6,he looks younger than most of the group,as Dragons can live for thousands of years,it could explain why.As well as Nah,she looks younger than everyone despite being as old as them.My reason for this is because Nowi is forced to marry a human,making the offspring age faster than a mankete but live longer than human.

That is hard to speculate...as Fa is a good example,her wings don't show,but probably the best reason is that they can probably make it show at will,and since Tiki and (I believe Nowi too) are Divine Dragons they don't have wings that show.Probably this question should be left for others.

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True true. I wonder if we'll ever hear the answers for this someday? I find it rather intriguing myself~ But I digress!

Hmm...but don't all manaketes require the stones in order to transform? Trying to think of a manakete that didn't, but not coming up with any. The reason the whole "If Manaketes give birth as humans or dragons, and if they give birth to humans or dragons?" question came from this on the Fire Emblem wiki, on the Manakete page (how valid it is, I don't know but...):

"Tens of thousands of years ago, in Akaneia, the Dragon Tribes did not need to seal their power into Dragonstones and spent much of their time in dragon form. They cultivated a powerful empire and ruled the continent. However, the Dragon Tribes eventually started to decay. First they became sterile, then finally they began to lose their sentience altogether, becoming wild beasts.

To avoid this terrible fate, the Dragon Tribes were forced to seal their powers in stones and spend their lives in human form, only assuming their dragon forms when needed."

This is partly what made me start wondering about the question in the first place, mostly due to the first line about them spending much of their time in dragon form. Meaning that'd be the natural form?? I'm not 100% certain on this, but it could've changed over time too...

Though I guess if they were born as dragons, that'd beg of the question of how soon they'd need to have their power sealed in a stone or something too, and whether they'd revert to a human form there on the spot or not.... x_x;;

I'm starting to think that too as well. Nowi I question because we NEVER see her in any instance with wings, however Tiki, whom really instigated this question for me...

GotohTiki.jpg

Tiki_TCG2.jpg

Tiki_TCG1.jpg

She has them in these images (granted, how canon the TCG images are I don't know), and I remember seeing a sprite of her in-battle sprite from the DS remake that had wings too (or maybe it was the SNES remake??). But every other time, she never has them. So the whole "magically hiding them while in humanoid form" I'm starting to believe quite a bit.

Also OMG how'd I forget to list Fa as an example? I feel silly lol...

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Fire Dragons in the GBA games were shown with the ability to retract their wings of flames. In Magvel, Myrrh also did so as well though only in her portrait if I remember correctly.

Bs_fe03_enemy_manakete.pngBs_fe03_tiki_manakete.png

I've noticed while other Manaketes have traditional dragon wings, the Divine Dragon tribe tends to have feathery wings.

EDIT: As for the other question, unless there's history we don't know about, their Dragon form is their real form.

Edited by Emperor Hardin
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While in humanoid form? Interesting...Yeah, Myrrh always had them out in battle from at least the LP and sprites I've seen anyways, but most of the time in her portrait she didn't (unless they were JUST offscreen enough to where we couldn't see them...). So if they can do that in humanoid form, I would assume it's natural then and not magical? Which leads back to Tiki then, seeing as she's shown with them in various situations (in-game battle sprite in the DS remakes, ending in the DS remakes, and in the TCG), but never in Awakening...likewise with Nowi too whom is never seen with them in humanoid form at any given point. Don't recall if

Do the Divine Dragons while in dragon form have feathery wings too? I actually haven't paid that much attention to that part (don't recall it in the FE1 game, but that was the NES one and there was hardly any differences in sprites anyways so...).

And now on the topic of wings and Fa/Fae...who was a good case with the whole not showing her wings in her art (much like Tiki/Nowi/Nah/Most other manaketes actually), yet in her battle sprite she has them, and in the manga as well:

FaeManga.jpg

How canon is the manga is beyond me (also, she too has feathery wings. Huh...guess all Divine Dragons do have feathery wings after all. Again, that goes back to if they do while in dragon form too).

Really enjoying this discussion. Bringing some insight on the matter that's rather interesting~

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Given how the transformation is treated, it's probably fair to say that it is an actual transformation and that Manakete are normally dragons.

And it's probably a very literal transformation, seeing how Manakete need to seal their powers into stones in order to turn back into dragons.

If they were regular shape shifters, they should be able to transform without external hardware.

And Xane does mention dragons that turned mad simply because they refused to abandon their pride as dragons by turning into humans.

So the human form is probably something very unnatural for them.

If it wasn't for them facing madness, I bet the vast majority of dragons would have went their whole lives without ever taking the form of a human. So I would guess that a dragon child is simply born as a dragon.

And in regards to a pregnancy of a manakete in human from , I guess all bets are off.

Personally my guess is that the statement of the elders that the dragons were going distinct was true one way or another:

That the dragons would either keep being sterile in human form or their children would be completely human.

Because I don't see how a human or a human Manakete could give birth to a Manakete.

The existence of dragon stones only make sense if the Manakete can't simply keep their own powers stored inside themselves.

And a newborn child wouldn't have a dragon stone.

Edited by BrightBow
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A very valid explanation I have to admit. Though would that mean they'd turn into dragons just to lay an egg/give birth/whatever, or stay as one while pregnant?? Because thinking about it, since humans and manaketes can mate with one another (dunno how that works but~), or in general even with two manaketes mating, wouldn't the child while inside the mother then have to deal with the transformation too? Or would it stay as whatever it's meant to be when it pops out regardless of what form the mother may be in at the time? I guess this relates to the last statement you made.

Though now that I think about it, where would a newborn get a dragonstone? I'd assume the parents would be the one to have it for them and do the whole sealing thing or whatever.

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A very valid explanation I have to admit. Though would that mean they'd turn into dragons just to lay an egg/give birth/whatever, or stay as one while pregnant?? Because thinking about it, since humans and manaketes can mate with one another (dunno how that works but~), or in general even with two manaketes mating, wouldn't the child while inside the mother then have to deal with the transformation too? Or would it stay as whatever it's meant to be when it pops out regardless of what form the mother may be in at the time? I guess this relates to the last statement you made.

Though now that I think about it, where would a newborn get a dragonstone? I'd assume the parents would be the one to have it for them and do the whole sealing thing or whatever.

Well, since I consider the transformation to be unnatural, I consequently also think that a baby would be unaffected by a transformation. And with that line of thought, I really don't want to think of the specifics of what happens to the fetus if the mother transforms beyond it being fatal for the child and the mother.

And as I said above, the issue with the dragon stones is specifically why I think that Manakete kid's don't have any dragon powers or Manakete simply maintain their sterility in the first place.

Btw, I would like to make the case that the dragons from Akaneia and Elibe aren't compatible with each other.

The dragons in Elibe have to stay human because of the high energy consumption of their dragon form.

The Akaneia dragons have technically no problem staying in dragon from. But they would turn into wild beast, if they stay like that.

So I propose that they should be looked at separately.

Edited by BrightBow
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I'd assume all of them for the most part had parents. Though thinking of binary fission just seems funny to me for some reason lol.

I wish I had more to add to this discussion, as it's been a pretty interesting topic to me and seeing what you guys have to say, but I'm all out of questions on this race sadly. ;__; Hopefully this didn't come off as weird or whatever as I know it may have. ^^;; Unless there's something important that I should know about them (hey, I like to know all about something I like! What can I say? ^^;; ).

...I guess I'll leave this off with whom are my favorite manaketes so far? Those being, in order: Tiki, Nowi, Nah, Myyrh (despite barely knowing her at all. I didn't read up on Ephraim's path at all and barely know her from Eirika's path, but she seems pretty cool). Wish there was a lot more good art for those 3 than what I've managed to find. ;__; But I digress!

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ignoring the patently creepy collection of questions, Janaff (not a manakete but close) says that laguz young haven't hatched from eggs for a long time

FE13 seems to imply that the manakete and the laguz are related so it may be the same there

also, Ena, who is functionally a manakete, is pregnant for like 20 years or something before having her kid, perhaps that sates your lust for information on this subject

also despite being pregnant Ena shows no outward signs of it in either PoR or FERD so there's that too

Nergal and whats-her-face

Aegir

Edited by General Banzai
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Haha I didn't know that dragons faced madness if they didn't take human form/a dragonstone according to the lore, that's some Berserk shit there

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Haha I didn't know that dragons faced madness if they didn't take human form/a dragonstone according to the lore, that's some Berserk shit there

It's explained in FE3/12.

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20 years and not showing any outward signs? That...that seems quite a long time. But I think I'm satisfied with what I've heard so far in this thread. Wings are retracted if they so desire (and/or if they're capable of doing so), they generally have a long waiting period before giving birth, and (if I'm reading it right) are born as most human babies would be now that I think about it, if transforming during that period would have an adverse effect on the mother and/or child.

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*Dramatic cape swishing entrance*

Okay get comfy, this theory is extremely long and detailed, I actually had some of those questions so I theorized and theorized until I had explained enough to myself to call myself satisfied. Also, if you don't like math, beware of functions. In addition, I look at manaketes overall, not specifically Elibe/Magvel/Archenea manaketes when theorizing.

First, I'll begin with the whole dragonstones and pregnancy bit. I explained this to like this: Until birth, the baby will share the mother's dragonstone. The mother will try to give birth in dragon form, if she doesn't, both she and the kid would have to shift at the same time from the same stone. Since the stone would hold both of their powers, it probably works better than it sounds. I think.

It's a bit more complicated in the currently hypothetical senario of a dragon father human mother (all half breeds thus far are dragon mother human father, so we haven't really encountered this issue yet.) To say it as simple as possible, the father has to seal the powers before the kid is born to avoid serious harm to the human mother. Because the mom wouldn't have a dragonstone, the kid would develop in dragon form, and giving birth would probably be way more painful for the human girl than a human form kid would be. I hope that portion made sense, because it probably did not...

Second the wings issue. The games are pretty inconsistent about them, so I think it's just a matter of 'not completely transforming,' keeping a bit of power so they can fly around.

Now I've gotton started, I just want to finish. So now I want to explain my equally lengthy theories on dragon aging. The function part comes soon...

First, full blood aging. A century for a human is about a year for a full blood dragon. That's the simple part...

Partial blood aging is a tad different due to inconsistency, even in the same continent. So here goes:

The partial blooded dragon will age like a human for a small (by dragon standards anyway), varied amount of time, I'll just use Roy as an example. So Roy looks 12 in FE6. So he aged normally til that point. Then he just... Stopped. And he'll probably stay that way until he's 300 (12 (stopping age) x 25 (percentage of Dragon blood)). Then when he hits that age, he'll resume aging at a rate of approximately 25 years for a human is 1year for him).

Finally, the function part. This only really applies to Elibe, though.

I created this big long function about how long a dragon of various 'purity' can live in Elibe without the constant protection of Arcadia or the Dragon Temple. It's 40 x .9726549474^X when X is the percentage of Dragon Blood x 100. So the X for Roy is 25, so he'll live around 20 years.

If you sat through and read all of that, congrats, you got a cookie! I know that was mostly unnecessary, I just felt the need to explain every detail.

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technically her english name is Quintessence due to a translation error

not quite; her mention by Nergal in the final chapter was mistaken for a quintessence mention, but her earlier mention in chapter 19xx in Hector's story still calls her Aenir... granted, that line was cocked up by the translation too given they mistook the name as referring to a place, but hey, her correct name's in the English script SOMEWHERE

as for the primary topic at hand, i'd theorise thus: while the humanoid manakete form is obviously not their native form, it is a form that they took in a bid to ensure the survival of the dragonkin (in the Archanea canon, anyway), so it seems reasonable that whatever the process of becoming a manakete was, it would've ensured they were capable of breeding in their manakete guises as well as their dragon ones. even if doing the do as humanoids didn't become their primary method of reproduction, the existence of Sophia, Nils, Ninian and Nah - of mixed human and dragon/manakete heritage - suggests that it was at least possible (although in Nah's case, all things considered, the male cast of FE13 would likely have been much more comfortable boinking an outright dragon as opposed to Nowi's loli state...)

it's anyone's guess as to how hypothetical manakete pregnancies are carried over between forms

(did i really just spend a good twenty minutes theorising about fictional pregnant dragons)

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