FE12 H3 Blind Playthrough Log

[PKL]

Mage Avatar doesn't double consistently after Prologue. Especially in Lunatic, where you have to invest in your defenses to get through Jagen. 4 base spd with enemies after Prologue having 9 minimum. You'd have to get 9 levels of spd to double or 7 spd levels + Rainbow Potion or a wing. Not to mention, once Silvers start showing, she's dead if you let her get attacked even once.

Edited December 6, 2013 by PKL

[Irysa]

Well, here goes:

Mercenary is meh after Prologue, because he's got sword rank and nothing else. He has the potential to beat every other Avatar in the Prologue due to the possibility of a rigged 2 turn Prologue 5, but you don't care about turns, and it is as riggy as strat as they can get. If you want good Horseman for lategame (best lategame class), just use one of the Prologue horseman for it.

I won't actually have any from Prologue I thought because I decided I'm not going to do a mixed reclass.

Archer is super meh after Prologue. Avatar has the potential to be your best combat unit for a very long time alongside Palla (until your horseman and Catria take over) so wasting him as an Archer->Hunter is super bad and will give you a super terrible time. Use this if you want to limit the Avatar, but I don't recommend it in a first playthrough. Your turns will suffer too but that's irrelevant here.

I figured as much (its an archer after all) but the purpose of the playlog isn't just "halp how do I beat the game" it's letting people enjoy following it, and if they want to see me struggle with a crappy MU then hey, what can you do? Also yeah, no horseman available without mixed soo....

Mage relies a lot on the other Prologue units (Luke, Caeda, Ryan, Athena etc) to do all the dirty jobs. Can't really take a hit for a long time. Still a beatable Prologue, but not a nice trip through it. After the Prologue, she can Nosferatank in a few maps, but that's better left to Linde or someone else tbh.

To be honest, after all's said and done if I ended up having a mage MU I'd probably start spamming cleric more than magey things anyway, so this was my least attractive option in the first place. I'm glad nobody is voting it <_<

Fighter is super great after Prologue because he builds very nice axe rank during the Prologue. Good natural axe users are a rarity in this game (even Barst has his issue) Prone to random whiffs in the Prologue, specially in Prologue 4 Athena Route but a nice Avatar to beat the Prologue with. Note that this guy's Prologue is highly offensive, as it can't really take many hits. If you really like his mugshot and all, I think you should pick this one. Don't care if someone else has done this guy a million times.

But everyone will be mad because I didn't listen to their votes twice ;_;

[PKL]

Oh, I see. No mixed reclass after all? All that does is limit your options :P. You still have one Prologue horseman choice though: Draug. It's the least preferable option, but you still have a horseman yet!

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Draug is troublesome to use >_>

[commonguard]

I think Orphan, Strong, Honourable for Myrmidon is better but w/e. Myrmidon is probably a much better option than any male option after the prologue since it has access to male set A classes (DK, Sniper, Paladin, SM) and also the General class (useful on that hellish bridge in C8 against all those dickhead generals); you'll have plenty of time to build up lance rank as a cavalier which is likely what you'll want to be in chapters anyway.

Since you aren't using Lunatic boosters I'd stay away from Linde. As godly as she is with boosters under tier list and the more conventional H3 LTC run circumstances, she's next to impossible to use without an Angelic robe since she's OHKO'd by pretty much everything - temp chipper and bench or just bench. I'd also be careful about what physical combatants you want to use. Many options are pretty horrendous without mixed sets, boosters and RP spamming; Cecille gets OHKO'd by numerous enemy types throughout the game, Draug has terrible base LUK and HP growth and also gets OHKO'd by numerous enemy types, Rody has a useless lance rank, Ryan just has terrible bases and growths, etc. Luke is pretty much the only prologue unit you get besides MU.

Don't worry too much about Marth. If you're going slow, he'll have no trouble gaining levels. As long as you have the money to buy out the boosters in C21 you should be completely fine for Medeus. The game practically showers you with gold starting from C15.

Also, wow people are jerks. Archer is like the worst and most boring option ever.

Edited December 7, 2013 by commonguard

[PKL]

Cecille gets OHKO'd by numerous enemy types throughout the game, Draug has terrible base LUK and HP growth and also gets OHKO'd by numerous enemy types, Rody has a useless lance rank, Ryan just has terrible bases and growths, etc. Luke is pretty much the only prologue unit you get besides MU.

This is pretty much false. You're cherrypicking by mentioning those character's flaws and not mentioning their strengths.

Cecille can use the Lady Sword really well and has the best spd growth out of the cavaliers. Draug has really overkill spd growth and amazing offensive bases. I concede Rody because that guy is pretty much inferior Luke v.2.0 and Hunter, Pirate, etc is all done better by everyone else (can only get to Level 4 in LTC, 8 spd Hunter coming out of Prologue in LTC is awful). And Ryan has all the time in the world to get kills in the Prologue and a great bow rank, his absolute bases also rival Luke's barring the spd.

Honestly, you overrate Luke. This is casual play, he can train all those units and they're some of the best choices to train for the longterm.

Edited December 7, 2013 by PKL

[Redwall]

While I haven't tried it, Archer would likely not be much fun on a first playthrough. Myrmidon is the most fun MU imo since the high AS lets you nuke everything (this is balanced by the fact that durability and Str are a bit lower than, say, Fighter, who is probably better for LTC). +2 Str, +1/5% Spd/Skl, +10% Def are what I would use for a female Myrmidon.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Miikaya

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Chapter 8 General is not that hard to beat either. Just use General Windex, oh wait

[Irysa]

I think Orphan, Strong, Honourable for Myrmidon is better but w/e. Myrmidon is probably a much better option than any male option after the prologue since it has access to male set A classes (DK, Sniper, Paladin, SM) and also the General class (useful on that hellish bridge in C8 against all those dickhead generals); you'll have plenty of time to build up lance rank as a cavalier which is likely what you'll want to be in chapters anyway.

Also, wow people are jerks. Archer is like the worst and most boring option ever.

If I have to go Archer without mixed it would be female archer anyway probably so I can get both there.

Also, you're the one trying to get me to use a Mage MU in H4...

Oh, I see. No mixed reclass after all? All that does is limit your options :P. You still have one Prologue horseman choice though: Draug. It's the least preferable option, but you still have a horseman yet!

Well yes, it limits it, but I figure I can have fun replaying this game based on MU! options alone so I think at least one playthrough without access to any of this stuff is fine. I mean, you only unlock these sets after beating hard or above once right? And you only get Lunatic boosters after beating Lunatic once. And nobody wants to see me play H2 or H1 first lol.

While I haven't tried it, Archer would likely not be much fun on a first playthrough. Myrmidon is the most fun MU imo since the high AS lets you nuke everything (this is balanced by the fact that durability and Str are a bit lower than, say, Fighter, who is probably better for LTC). +2 Str, +1/5% Spd/Skl, +10% Def are what I would use for a female Myrmidon.

That Myrmidon set is killed by Jagen without all vulnerary use vs mine or commonguard's that only needs 2. I personally think 4 hp is better than 1 extra strength, especially since I want more str growth and can rig the shit out of the early levels anyway.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Irysa

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Actually, if you want to try H2, then go for it. H2 as a mode is pretty restrictive by FE standard, even though i'm still butthurt that someone manage to beat H2 with no melee unit

[commonguard]

This is pretty much false. You're cherrypicking by mentioning those character's flaws and not mentioning their strengths.

Cecille can use the Lady Sword really well and has the best spd growth out of the cavaliers. Draug has really overkill spd growth and amazing offensive bases. I concede Rody because that guy is pretty much inferior Luke v.2.0 and Hunter, Pirate, etc is all done better by everyone else (can only get to Level 4 in LTC, 8 spd Hunter coming out of Prologue in LTC is awful). And Ryan has all the time in the world to get kills in the Prologue and a great bow rank, his absolute bases also rival Luke's barring the spd.

Honestly, you overrate Luke. This is casual play, he can train all those units and they're some of the best choices to train for the longterm.

Accuse me of cherry picking and then cherry pick Ryan strengths (which aren't anything special considering gold is abound and Armscrolls aren't heavily contested) without mentioning how bad his SPD growth really is. Also, I sense bias against Rody. You assume an LTC mindset when conceding Rody is sub par but say all units can be trained and are some of the best in the long run. What up with that? To give you some perspective consider training Rody as an Archer or whatever you would train Ryan as for 20 levels. After those 20 levels Rody is up 7 SPD and down 2 STR compared to Ryan. Sniper!Rody with an Armscroll is quite a bit better than Sniper!Ryan (even if Ryan gets a Speedwing) wouldn't you say? It's even worse than it looks because a 20/20 Sniper!Ryan doesn't even double endgame Mage types without a Speedwing or the Brave bow (can't ORKO C23 mages without a forge).

I overrate Luke? Okay.

Level 6 Cav!Luke 2HKOs C1 bandits with unforged Steel; 1 EP counter and subsequent PP hit = 1 dead bandit.

If you give him a +1-2 Mt Steel forge level 6-9 Myrm!Luke can flat out ORKO C1 bandits.

Luke easily 2RKOs C2 Axe!DKs with a Mend in between rounds.

He can reach C swords for armourslayer usage by C5 pretty easily.

He reaches doubling SPD as a myrmidon very quickly (right out of the prologue actually), maintains said doubling SPD against most enemy types and will cap SM SPD at roughly 15/12 so you can bet he'll double virtually everything that can be doubled (compare this to say Ryan who needs to be like 15/20 to cap SM SPD)

He's far and away the most efficient user of the base arena when it comes down to exp/gold

He doesn't need a single booster to function effectively as a SM

He doesn't have any real flaws. He has a growth spread that rivals Catria's; loses in SPD but wins in STR slightly and he's wants to be in a SM anyway so he'll have a SPD buffer. Yea... totally overrating Luke here.

In conclusion, I think you let your favouritism for Ryan cloud your judgement far too often for you to say things like, "Honestly, you overrate Luke.".

Anyway, what I said was just something to consider since the OP going to be using Archer!MU so some enemy types will be more difficult to handle than others and having a good sword user would be more beneficial than anything else since axes are mostly unnecessary and there are plenty of good lance wielders. Other units do typically have more viability with a better/different MU to shoulder more of the early game burden.

And nobody wants to see me play H2 or H1 first lol.

I think people want to see a blind H4 Mage MU run.

That Myrmidon set is killed by Jagen without all vulnerary use vs mine or commonguard's that only needs 2. I personally think 4 hp is better than 1 extra strength, especially since I want more str growth and can rig the shit out of the early levels anyway.

Oh, technically my build needs one of the soldier or Jagen to flux down in STR for a clear with only 2 vulnerary uses. Miikaya's build works with 2 vulnerary uses if you reset the map so both Jagen and the soldier flux down in STR.

[PKL]

What I meant is that just because Luke exists, doesn't mean he shouldn't consider the other options. You tend to sandbag every Prologue unit as if they were worthless, when it's not really true. In fact, in casual play, I've used Luke Ryan AND cecille all in one playthrough. Btw, what I said about Rody also applies in casual if you aren't rigging Rody's levels. He's got serious issues getting levels in the Prologue. If he has 8 spd, not even a RP use or a Speedwing can salvage him ever as a Hunter. And he doesn't really do anything else that well. Luke shines because he has actual base stats and isn't always 1 point short of str to KO weakened enemies. And cut the Ryan bias crap. He's not as good without the RP, but he's definetely still useful and a good unit to have around and even train. Like I've said before, your standards for good units are too high and they cloud your judgment. You can literally only see Luke as the only good Prologue unit. Hell, you even suggested once that Caeda is a bad unit to feed kills to.

[eclipse]

Accuse me of cherry picking and then cherry pick Ryan strengths (which aren't anything special considering gold is abound and Armscrolls aren't heavily contested) without mentioning how bad his SPD growth really is. Also, I sense bias against Rody. You assume an LTC mindset when conceding Rody is sub par but say all units can be trained and are some of the best in the long run. What up with that? To give you some perspective consider training Rody as an Archer or whatever you would train Ryan as for 20 levels. After those 20 levels Rody is up 7 SPD and down 2 STR compared to Ryan. Sniper!Rody with an Armscroll is quite a bit better than Sniper!Ryan (even if Ryan gets a Speedwing) wouldn't you say? It's even worse than it looks because a 20/20 Sniper!Ryan doesn't even double endgame Mage types without a Speedwing or the Brave bow (can't ORKO C23 mages without a forge).

This is faulty on several levels:

1. If you don't use Rody at all during the Prologue, and then reclass him to Archer, he'll be hard-pressed to catch up to whoever was used.

2. I doubt either of them will see anything near level 20 before promotion.

3. If I'm reading weapon ranks right, Ryan needs 15 shots of a bow before Sniper promotion to hit B. Given that Parthia, the Silver Bow, and an Arms Scroll all show up on the same chapter, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that he'll hit Parthia by chapter's end. Rody needs 30 shots. Not a big deal, until we factor in Ryan's forced bow use in the Prologue - suddenly, the gap becomes a lot wider.

I care about the arrival of the Silver Bow/Parthia because the midgame dragon chapters can kiss my rear.

PKL really likes Ryan, but I don't think it's unwarranted. I'm fond of Rody, but I'm also willing to admit that he needs time and levels to get going.

[commonguard]

Responded to PKL and eclipse here since this is way off topic.

Edited December 7, 2013 by commonguard

[Irysa]

Well, I've let the poll sit for about a day, it's time to tally things!

1. Fighter - Orphan, Strong/Kind, Honorable (4 votes [30.77%] - View)

2. Archer - Farmer, Diverse, Honorable (6 votes [46.15%] - View)

3. Myrmidon - Farmer, Diverse, Honorable (2 votes [15.38%] - View)

4. Mage - Orphan, Strong, Honorable (1 votes [7.69%] - View)

Archer has the lead at a glance but because

I saw archer on the poll so i voted archer, I personally say go fighter MU.

LeaderR said this, I count his vote as Fighter. Which leaves us with 5 to 5 instead of 6 to 4.

So to tiebreak, I'm throwing in my own vote and voting Fighter beacuse open shirt. TOTALLY FAIR AND NOT BIASED

THIS RUN WILL START TODAY. GOD HELP ME.

[commonguard]

Wait what? He voted Archer...

Booo this is just like Florida man...

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Good luck

Now that i'm on holiday, we can race our PT

I WIll lose

[Irysa]

Someone please tell me there is a better way of beating Prologue 4 without just unequipping Caeda and letting Ryan kill everything behind the wall. I have a feeling I'll need more Heals/Vulneraries than this strat leaves me with <_<

EDIT: Okay I...well more like Ryan missing optimised this a bit beacuse now Athena gets to attack Caeda instead of a Soldier so the enemy spread became a bit less silly. I think thats enough for now, will be uploading soon.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Irysa

[Irysa]

I fell asleep whilst uploading sorry lol.

Bottom right of vids have annotations to skip to appropriate gameplay parts when neccessary.

[spoiler=Prologue 1-2]

[spoiler=Prologue 3-4]

Edited December 8, 2013 by Irysa

[commonguard]

P-2 Luke targeting isn't random. You proc'd LUK on your first level which prevents Luke and Rody from having 2% crit chance on your MU. Luke and Rody can have 9-10 SKL resulting in either 4 or 5 crit and Ryan has only 3 LUK. If any enemy has 2% or greater crit (and they can kill with the critical) they will choose to target that unit.

You can use low LUK units to your advantage in many instances.

[Vennobennu]

Your aspect ratio for the larger screen looks weird; notice how all of the text and portraits look pixelated and blocky. Also, your keys are pretty audible at times, Otherwise, I'm glad that you've cut out repetitive parts (like redoing P-1 for a better level).

The AI in this game has several quirks that, of course, the game doesn't give you any hints about. The important thing to know is that the AI is essentially determinist; in a given situation, the AI will always make the same moves.

Loved your P-4 suffering. You truly captured the despair of that place!

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I'm pretty sure this game does not have "adaptive AI" WRT Ranged attacks so you can abuse this for Choke pointing. Pretty helpful for CH8

Or you already know this so eh

That Chapter 4 strats tho

[Irysa]

Your aspect ratio for the larger screen looks weird; notice how all of the text and portraits look pixelated and blocky. Also, your keys are pretty audible at times, Otherwise, I'm glad that you've cut out repetitive parts (like redoing P-1 for a better level).

The AI in this game has several quirks that, of course, the game doesn't give you any hints about. The important thing to know is that the AI is essentially determinist; in a given situation, the AI will always make the same moves.

Loved your P-4 suffering. You truly captured the despair of that place!

I accidentally had point filtering on so that's actually the reason, not the ratio. It will be fixed for future videos. I must have forgotten to turn that off.

As for keys, I have a loud keyboard. I could use push to talk but then that means I can't do things whilst PTTing. I tried having a mic mute/unmute button but then I fail to turn it back on (d'oh).

Also thanks for the advice on the AI. That does sound rather abusable. Is the crit thing ALWAYS a priority above all else?

Edited December 8, 2013 by Irysa

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

TBH the critical priority is a new info for me

The AI priority that I know of are

- Highest Damage > Kill

Lets say that Enemy 1 and 2 is in range of X. Enemy 2 is also in range of Y. Y have lower defense than X. Enemy 2 will go into Y instead of teaming up with Enemy 1 and killing X. The abuse is obvious

- Archer priority

Not sure what triggers this, IIRC inability to counter attack? Basically the AI will prioritize Archer over anything else, resulting in the same shenanigans as the previous trick.

Theres also that one AI priority where the AI decided to chase after the closest unit. For slow players all of these trick are basically the lifeline, or at least if my experience tell me something >_>

Not sure if this is accurate or this is everything.

#summonsPKL

Edited December 8, 2013 by Eradicator Boner

[Vennobennu]

If a single AI can ORKO one of your units, it will move before any other AIs that would target that unit. You can see this in P-4; normally Athena moves last, but she moves before the Soldiers to kill MU, whom she doubles and KOs. I think that higher damage > KO trick only works if Enemy 2 moves before Enemy 1. Otherwise Enemy 2 will sense a kill and move to attack X instead.