Jeigan Appreciation Thread

[Anacybele]

I facepalm everytime Frederick slips into his "TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING!!!" mode, which is a lot, unfortunately.

Ironically, Frederick actually hates training. He says so in his support with Henry and even calls it torture. This really says a lot about him, that he's willing to keep doing even things he HATES just to be good at his job and serve his lord properly. I admire this about him too.

My problem is not that he cries. Oifaye cries, Finn cries, that's all fine.

My problem is that is that Frederick is written in a way that I cannot really embrace him as a serious character. He's set up to be one thing, and consistently undercut by sequences like the Henry supports where it doesn't appear to remotely faze him that he's talking to an emotionally disturbed Plegian lad decked out in Grima cult robes. After all the talking-up Frederick gets about being vigilant and skeptical, after the way he interacted with Virion, I expected something and instead I got... Training Freak Funnies. Again.

He looks nice and has some great lines, but the center isn't there in my personal opinion.

Ah, I see. I can understand you now and see what you mean. Frederick isn't perfect, that I will agree on. But anyone has flaws, and I can overlook Frederick's pretty easily, given how much I fell in love with him (he's one of my favorite video game characters). :P

[LuigiandShadowGirl]

You haven't played many FE games, have you? :P

Yes, Titania has red hair. lol

No, FE:A is my first FE game I decided to try. xD

Oh yeah, her. I used her Spotpass character in Awakening.

"Oifey" was a prepromoted paladin in FE4 Generation 2. The term typically used for Jeigans who are useful throughout the whole game(though there is some debate as to whether the distinction really applies to Oifey).

Oh, so it's a term like that Jeigan guy. What's the difference between Jeigans and Oifey?

There is no such thing as "an Oifey." Oifey is the name of a prepromoted Paladin in FE4 and is the Jeigan for (his part of) the game.

Well I thought it was "an Oifey" because people were saying "Jiegans" so I thought they could be named individual too. Guess I got that wrong. D: Oh okay, another prepromoted Paladin. Thanks for answering my question!

[Loki Laufeyson]

what the fuck does tvtropes have to do with linguistics

Absolutely nothing.

Anyway, on Fred, hes great for early game and pairing funzies. Im not entirely big on his character. Im more ambivalent than anything.

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

No, FE:A is my first FE game I decided to try. xD

Oh yeah, her. I used her Spotpass character in Awakening.

Oh, so it's a term like that Jeigan guy. What's the difference between Jeigans and Oifey?

Well I thought it was "an Oifey" because people were saying "Jiegans" so I thought they could be named individual too. Guess I got that wrong. D: Oh okay, another prepromoted Paladin. Thanks for answering my question!

People used to mean "Jeigan" for "Crutch character that looks awesome at first but is bad, don't use" and "Oifaye" for "Crutch character that stays good, go ahead and use him/her," but honestly keeping it straight is far more trouble than it's possibly worth and you should just not worry about that.

If you must, think of Oifayes as younger, sexier Jeigans that people feel more love towards even if some of them don't stay good.

[Ϲharlie]

But Jeigan is sexier than Oifaye.

[PKL]

Fred tends to fall in Chapter 16 for me. And by fall, I mean his offense. His durability is ok, he just doesn't double shit then. I mean in Lunatic. In hard, he's viable all game really. Though I've had some Freds be useless as a lead unit (hes always amazing in support) by Chapter 23.

[Nobody]

Eh, I find fred OK, but I don't like use him that much, except as a support unit

(hes always amazing in support)

Yes! He + Sumia works wonders!

I'm doing this on purpose :p

it's still my opinion.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Nobody

[dondon151]

My problem is that is that Frederick is written in a way that I cannot really embrace him as a serious character.

welcome to fire emblem: awakening

[LuigiandShadowGirl]

People used to mean "Jeigan" for "Crutch character that looks awesome at first but is bad, don't use" and "Oifaye" for "Crutch character that stays good, go ahead and use him/her," but honestly keeping it straight is far more trouble than it's possibly worth and you should just not worry about that.

If you must, think of Oifayes as younger, sexier Jeigans that people feel more love towards even if some of them don't stay good.

Okay, now I get it. So if you had to choose between the two, you should choose Oifayes. And really? So Jeigans are more under-appreciated? Thanks for clearing that up!

[The Void]

Not really. Since Oifaye himself isn't much better than Jagen is and unlike Dadgar or Titania he does fall behind..

[Baldrick]

But as Red Fox said, Oifayes don't exist. Every Jeigan that doesn't leave can be made viable through the whole game, some just take more effort than others.

[RJWalker]

The term 'Oifey' is a relic of an ancient time. One that we should discard.

[Mister Sunshine Sprinkles]

Alright, Oifey out, Jagen in.

That spares the trouble of renaming the thread to "Early Game Pre-promoted Unit Appreciation Thread".

[Refa]

Alright, Oifey out, Jagen in.

That spares the trouble of renaming the thread to "Early Game Pre-promoted Unit Appreciation Thread".

Lame, then I could have been like WENDELL HE SURE IS A BADASS ALL HAIL THE POPE AND WHAT ABOUT THAT DAGUDAR THAT PEOPLE THINK IS A JEIGAN BECAUSE HE JOINS IN CHAPTER ONE AND IS PROMOTED.

[Florete]

Not really. Since Oifaye himself isn't much better than Jagen is and unlike Dadgar or Titania he does fall behind..

Yes. Thing is, the term "Oifey" just never really made sense. Oifey himself isn't quite like Seth or Titania, who would be commonly cited under the term and, although I haven't actually played the first game, I've heard that FE1 Jagen is more of an "Oifey" than Oifey himself because of how powerful stat boosters are in that game.

And if that's true, it makes the whole distinction completely laughable.

But as Red Fox said, Oifayes don't exist. Every Jeigan that doesn't leave can be made viable through the whole game, some just take more effort than others.

Yes, although it's not about whether or not they can be made viable for the rest of the game, just the fact that they are an early-game crutch unit. There are other common similarities, such as them usually being a "retainer" of sorts for the main lord and/or their stats aren't usually up to par with the rest of the team later in the game, but there's no good reason to make separate distinctions based on one being slightly different in those areas.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Yes. Thing is, the term "Oifey" just never really made sense. Oifey himself isn't quite like Seth or Titania, who would be commonly cited under the term and, although I haven't actually played the first game, I've heard that FE1 Jagen is more of an "Oifey" than Oifey himself because of how powerful stat boosters are in that game.

Well, lets just say Jeigan only need 1 Speedwings and 1 Angel Robes to wreck shit

[Refa]

Yes, although it's not about whether or not they can be made viable for the rest of the game, just the fact that they are an early-game crutch unit. There are other common similarities, such as them usually being a "retainer" of sorts for the main lord and/or their stats aren't usually up to par with the rest of the team later in the game, but there's no good reason to make separate distinctions based on one being slightly different in those areas.

Well, I'm sure they just wanted to be consistent with other archetype names, like how we make a distinction between goodests and badests.

[Florete]

Well, I'm sure they just wanted to be consistent with other archetype names, like how we make a distinction between goodests and badests.

But both of those are "Ests." We don't have Ests and, like, Ninos, or something. At least to my knowledge. (Who is a "good" Est, anyway?)

[Ϲharlie]

(Who is a "good" Est, anyway?)

Zeiss maybe? I've noticed a lot of people refer to him as an "Est", but he still seems to be regarded as a reasonably good unit.

Although I'm really not sure what makes an "Est" or any of the other fanmade archetypes. Many of the criteria seem to be rather arbitrary. I remember making a thread that poked fun at the idea of a "Jeigan" archetype by comparing Jeigan to Obi-wan Kenobi and (jokingly) saying that IS had ripped off Star Wars. :|

[Nicolas]

But both of those are "Ests." We don't have Ests and, like, Ninos, or something. At least to my knowledge. (Who is a "good" Est, anyway?)

Sara, Bromeros.

Both are Est and both are amaizing good thanks to thracia mechanic.

[Refa]

But both of those are "Ests." We don't have Ests and, like, Ninos, or something. At least to my knowledge. (Who is a "good" Est, anyway?)

I was just trying to be witty and failing, because there being no good Ests and all.

Also Zeiss and Sara and Homeros aren't Ests because units with good bases don't qualify.

[Nicolas]

If Est can't have good bases, there is almost imposible to make good Est.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Its a good thing they don't have to be good

[Irysa]

If Est can't have good bases, there is almost imposible to make good Est.

If we're entirely honest, the way Manakete's work is far more ideal to how you'd expect an "Est" character to function, in that they're kind of vulnerable but can hit like absoloute trucks where it matters. If Est's came with retarded Prf weapons and the kinds of growths Manakete's got and leveled up as fast as they did...

Elincia kind of counts I guess. Flying, Prf Brave Sword, can use Staves, levels up pretty fast in PoR. But she's technically promoted and all and still didn't do much damage because of 9 base str.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Irysa

[Baldrick]

although it's not about whether or not they can be made viable for the rest of the game, just the fact that they are an early-game crutch unit.

True, it's not the purpose of the archetype. But people used to split it based on endgame performance.

I was just trying to be witty and failing, because there being no good Ests and all.

Also Zeiss and Sara and Homeros aren't Ests because units with good bases don't qualify.

I disagree. Just as the point of a Jeigan is to be good early game, the point of an Est is to develop quickly given resources. Units with good bases tend not to be Ests since their performance is good from the start but it doesn't preclude them.

A good Est is one that provides a good return on your investment. They get a bad rep because they usually require turns, which most of the community consider quite expensive.