Ninian as a Manakete (!)

[Ninian]

Of course. I'll tell you if an opportunity arises.

How did this even get this popular...?

[Lisandra_brave]

Parrhesia, if I hear ONE more insulting comment from you, I'm taking it up with the moderators. You have no right to be picking away at me in an environment that's supposed to be constructive. I'm done with it. Got it?

Constructive: Adj - 1. Relating to construction. 2. Carefully considered and meant to be helpful.

Something can be scathing, nasty, and downright mean, and still be constructive. Please stop misusing words.

[Parrhesia]

Parrhesia, if I hear ONE more insulting comment from you, I'm taking it up with the moderators. You have no right to be picking away at me in an environment that's supposed to be constructive. I'm done with it. Got it?

Exactly. It's supposed to be constructive. That's why I'm pointing out flaws with your writing.

So you can, like, improve. So you can work on those flaws. Do you know what constructive actually means or are you using it as a buzzword to try to get rid of me?

[Randa]

Guess what, you two. You're both pessimistic jackasses who don't even DESERVE to read my writing. Parrhesia is a COMPLETE jackass, and should be put in his place. CT, you're not as bad, but you're smug and it's driving me crazy.

Parrhesia, if I hear ONE more insulting comment from you, I'm taking it up with the moderators. You have no right to be picking away at me in an environment that's supposed to be constructive. I'm done with it. Got it?

I think you're overreacting a tad bit. I think they're being more realist than pessimist. Parrhesia's last comment was a little bit unnecessary calling it trash, but there are probelms with it, that you chose to ignore when he pointed them out. And criticism can be constructive if you are willing to accept it and the giver is polite about it and explains it. So I'm gonna go over what I think can use some work and why.

Nergal: Foolish girl! You've been slain once, do you wish to be slain again?

Ninian: I don't wish to be slain again. I wish to be with Eliwood and my brother.

Nergal: Fool! Do you forget who raised you as his own? The man who was as your father?

Ninian: You only did that because you took me and Nils from our mother.

Nergal: Dragon of Ice! I shall take your quintessence!

Ninian: No, Nergal. For endangering me, my brother, Eliwood, my friends, both worlds...(eye close, a blank line of text, then opened eyes) I'll make sure you're incapable of hurting anyone ever again!

Nergal: Bold last words! Face true and utter darkness!

I'm gonna ignor plot issues it really doesn't phase me.

Nergal: Foolish girl! You've been slain once, do you wish to be slain again?

Ninian: I don't wish to be slain again. I wish to be with Eliwood and my brother.

This just doesn't sound right when I say it out loud. The problems with it are as follows.

The second sentence :You've been slain once, do you wish to be slain again? Very archaic style of writing. It doesn't roll of the tounge and really doesn't(IMO) sound like nergals voice. Ex: You think you can defeat me? I shall make you suffer the pain of death once more!

Ninian's line:I don't wish to be slain again. I wish to be with Eliwood and my brother.

Its too half hearted out of ninian. This is the man who has put you and your friends through hell. There should be anger in her voice or at the very least calm certainty of fate. Ex: It is not I who will die Nergal. I shall walk forth from here with my lord Eliwood and my brother Nils. And you will never hurt them again.

I'm working on the rest right now. If you would like more opinions on this section I can finish. If you don't think I offer anything of value than I won't.

[Ninian]

Parrhesia, it's been reported to an administrator.

Randa, you're not bad. Unfortunately, me and you are working in different directions, but I appreciate your willingness to help.

[Tryhard]

reaching critical buttmad

[Chocolate Kitty]

Nergal: Foolish girl! You've been slain once, do you wish to be slain again? - Seems pretty out of character to me, but whatever. I mean he didn't even kill her the first time.

Ninian: I don't wish to be slain again. I wish to be with Eliwood and my brother. - Yeah that's way out of character, I can't even remember when Ninian spoke in full sentences, much rather said something that pointless. Honestly, I read this is a 8 year old's voice and it fit pretty well, you should try it.

Nergal: Fool! Do you forget who raised you as his own? The man who was as your father? - Problem, he IS her father, so I'm not sure why he would deny that, this isn't the Maury show, and Aenir isn't asking for child support. He also seems to make interjections a lot, which add nothing.

Ninian: You only did that because you took me and Nils from our mother. - I'm fairly certain the two weren't having marital problem. In fact, I'm almost certain her death is the reason he started to lose his mind. Something about he being kidnapped by "bad men" as quoted from 19xx's text.

Nergal: Dragon of Ice! I shall take your quintessence! - Again, interjections, and a weird one at that. Who addresses people a such? Even Denning wouldn't say something like that.

Ninian: No, Nergal. For endangering me, my brother, Eliwood, my friends, both worlds...(eye close, a blank line of text, then opened eyes) I'll make sure you're incapable of hurting anyone ever again! - Yeah no, that doesn't even make any sense, did you actually play FE7? I won't go into how the writing isn't very good, but it isn't even canonical at this point.

Nergal: Bold last words! Face true and utter darkness! - Shut up already.

Tl;dr version:

Play FE7 hector mode please, you are so off in so many directions holy crap it's almost scary.

[Terrador]

Tl;dr version:

Play FE7 hector mode please, you are so off in so many directions holy crap it's almost scary.

To get the full mileage out of that, unlock all the Kishuna maps, and read as many supports as you can.

Alternatively, try rewriting the canonical game script once or twice, same content in different words.

Not commenting on the work itself, just suggesting ways to better understand canon!FE7.

[Balcerzak]

Locking this for a bit so everyone can cool off and take a step back. I need to read this thing to try to make sense of what's happened.

[Balcerzak]

almost everyone has ideas so no offense but this is worth absolutely nothing in a lot of people's minds.

I also consider having someone write for me more of a privilege than them doing a favor unless they can read my mind and have such absolutely amazing writing that mine looks like total **** in comparison (after all everyone has different styles, ways of doing things, preferences, etc., and a lot of people don't want other people doing the "fun" part of writing the scripts for them, so the # of people who would value you writing for them is relatively low, I imagine)

tl;dr hardcore and blunt pessimism and I don't see why anyone would do this given the daunting nature of the task :|

Thank you, Blazer. We always could use more pessimists ruining peoples' hopes. At least be a LITTLE supportive, or just follow the Golden Rule. I know it's daunting, but understand that I actually had hopes for this, and you ran them into the ground. Also...don't insult my writing. I don't see you working on writing so much. NOW I get why Kelik isn't the motivator.

Ninian, the over the top sarcasm here is not necessary or appropriate. While users are expected to show respect, they do not have to be encouraging, and often a dose of reality is quite frankly warranted. Could Blazer have phrased his post a little better? Probably, but you know what, he came back later, did so and apologized. His post here went wholly unacknowledged by you, as far as I can tell, and it was an excellent one. But regardless, in the first place he never insulted your writing. Reread his post. You are taking offense way too easily here, and your sense of entitlement is way too high. The quicker you realize this, the easier things will be here for everyone.

Nergal: Foolish girl! You've been slain once, do you wish to be slain again?

Ninian: I don't wish to be slain again. I wish to be with Eliwood and my brother.

Nergal: Fool! Do you forget who raised you as his own? The man who was as your father?

Ninian: You only did that because you took me and Nils from our mother.

Nergal: Dragon of Ice! I shall take your quintessence!

Ninian: No, Nergal. For endangering me, my brother, Eliwood, my friends, both worlds...(eye close, a blank line of text, then opened eyes) I'll make sure you're incapable of hurting anyone ever again!

Nergal: Bold last words! Face true and utter darkness!

This is incredibly melodramatic. This is coming from someone who wrote something heavily (and rightly) criticised for being melodramatic about a year and a half ago, and that was far less so than this. Tone it down and make them sound like real people.

Guys, let think and do what I want to. If you don't like it, you don't have to say anything.

Parrhesia: Shut up and let me have my fun. It's just a game, I don't need to have everybody sound like modern human beings. Otherwise, there'd be a HUGE amount of swearing and talking about sex. It's not a modern game, if it was, there would probably be gunners in place of archers. And that's why it's dramatic and archaic.

L95, Kon, Just stop. Please. This isn't helping anybody.

2 things here: The "If you don't like it, you don't have to say anything" attitude needs to stop. This is a public messageboard, the primary purpose of which is communication. When somebody says something that is factually incorrect, they will be corrected on it. If someone were insisting the Earth were flat in an Serious Discussion topic, there's no way we'd be preventing people for commenting otherwise, even if they did start the thread the discussion spawned from. When somebody makes statements conflicting with established canon, other people have the right to call them out on it.

On the other hand, if you want this hack to be an alternate history hack, where Nergal is not Ninian's father, you need to make that clear somewhere, and that's going to entail massive rewriting of the rest of the plot, which will be tons of work. But since you're apparently the hack writer, I guess you'll get that covered eventually.

Second thing: You are excessively rude to Furetchen here. He's giving you plain and simple advice on the issues he sees with the script fragment you've provided. That's constructive criticism, that's good, that's useful. Don't just tell people trying to help you to "shut up". eclipse already called you out on this and your response was:

I took it as an insult. I did not like that. I expressed my distaste in what he was saying. I backed up what I said with examples. To be honest, he's not exactly Captain Friendly to me, either.

And I mean, come on, at least I got their characters right. I didn't want them to sound redundant, like "You hurt me and my brother! I'll make you pay!" See, that overused tiny speech doesn't even sound right.

That's not acceptable. You need to grow some thicker skin, not everything is an insult. Constructive criticism exists, and you will need to learn to deal with harsh facts. It's on them to keep the presentation of the facts relatively polite, but they are under no obligation to flatter or praise work that they do not find satisfactory. The little strawman you throw in at the end just seems silly to me. Furet never suggested you use tiny trite overused dialogue either, he advised you to try to make them speak like real people do. Saying "well, I tried guys," (which is what the "I got their character right" excuse reads as to me) is a cop-out you shouldn't ever rely on.

You could just shut up and make your namesake proud as being a typically quiet girl instead of constantly yammering

It's not dramatic and archaic. It's badly-written trash you're brazenly fronting as your 'above-average writing' that you would have tried to force on someone as 'repayment' for scripting something that the game framework cannot actually maintain. You're putting it out there (again, as 'above-average writing') and it very much is not.

This is why I quietly mentioned you might want to have put a sample up first, so you wouldn't publically embarrass yourself like this.

On the other hand, these kinds of posts aren't called for either. Poly's post is just plain straight up flaming and there's no excuse for it, and "badly-written trash" and "would have tried to force upon" are way too inflammatory and loaded. Does her writing have problems, could be, not going to go into that. You've done a much better job in most of your other posts trying to point things out along the way. If you find yourself getting frustrated at a lack of progress, don't phrase your comments in a way you know is likely to rile someone up. Whether your judgement on their abilities is right or wrong, needlessly inciting them is never the correct call to make.

Guess what, you two. You're both pessimistic jackasses who don't even DESERVE to read my writing. Parrhesia is a COMPLETE jackass, and should be put in his place. CT, you're not as bad, but you're smug and it's driving me crazy.

Parrhesia, if I hear ONE more insulting comment from you, I'm taking it up with the moderators. You have no right to be picking away at me in an environment that's supposed to be constructive. I'm done with it. Got it?

Of course this spawned a massive over-reaction here.

oooooh

that stings

how will i ever live with myself at night

i don't deserve to read mistress ninian's writing!!!

And accompanied excessive sarcasm. Not cool guys, not cool. I only wish someone had managed to get things to cool off before they got to this level, because frankly, things have reached trainwreck city.

Parrhesia, it's been reported to an administrator.

Finally, Ninian. Moderators are not weapons to be wielded about like threats, and this honestly reads like an eight-year old telling their sibling "if you touch me again, I'm gonna tell mommy and daddy on you". Don't do this. Ever. Please. The site Code of Conduct explicitly outlines that minimodding (which this behaviour falls under) is not tolerated. When you have an issue with things, hit the Report Button, list your reasons, and if gloat you must over someone's impending punishment, do it silently. Nobody is well served by the flaunting "haha I told on you" attitudes. Not in elementary school, not now.

reaching critical buttmad

One line posts are not acceptable outside of far from the forest. This type of comment also only serves to snowball a disaster, and is better off left unsaid.

Nergal: Foolish girl! You've been slain once, do you wish to be slain again? - Seems pretty out of character to me, but whatever. I mean he didn't even kill her the first time.

Ninian: I don't wish to be slain again. I wish to be with Eliwood and my brother. - Yeah that's way out of character, I can't even remember when Ninian spoke in full sentences, much rather said something that pointless. Honestly, I read this is a 8 year old's voice and it fit pretty well, you should try it.

Nergal: Fool! Do you forget who raised you as his own? The man who was as your father? - Problem, he IS her father, so I'm not sure why he would deny that, this isn't the Maury show, and Aenir isn't asking for child support. He also seems to make interjections a lot, which add nothing.

Ninian: You only did that because you took me and Nils from our mother. - I'm fairly certain the two weren't having marital problem. In fact, I'm almost certain her death is the reason he started to lose his mind. Something about he being kidnapped by "bad men" as quoted from 19xx's text.

Nergal: Dragon of Ice! I shall take your quintessence! - Again, interjections, and a weird one at that. Who addresses people a such? Even Denning wouldn't say something like that.

Ninian: No, Nergal. For endangering me, my brother, Eliwood, my friends, both worlds...(eye close, a blank line of text, then opened eyes) I'll make sure you're incapable of hurting anyone ever again! - Yeah no, that doesn't even make any sense, did you actually play FE7? I won't go into how the writing isn't very good, but it isn't even canonical at this point.

Nergal: Bold last words! Face true and utter darkness! - Shut up already.

Tl;dr version:

Play FE7 hector mode please, you are so off in so many directions holy crap it's almost scary.

This feels like it's poking fun at someone trying to cleverly pass itself off as constructive criticism. When you reference things like "this isn't the maury show" and "did you even play FE7" it seems really obvious you're just fishing for laughs. "Haha, everyone look how bad this is" isn't the proper way to provide con-crit. I could go further into this, but frankly, this whole topic has given me a headache, and I'm pretty sure you understand where I'm getting at.

FOR EVERYONE

PM me if you take issue to my having called you out like this, but do not reply to my points in-thread.

Warnings have been or are being handed out to the appropriate parties, but I honestly could not justify reopening this topic without some sort of breakdown on the just all kinds of bad that went down in here. I expect everyone to do better from now on. This thread is expected to stay ON TOPIC, and everyone is expected to BE CIVIL. This goes for Ninian, this goes for everyone.

[Shauni]

What was the point of even unlocking this thread if any constructive criticism given will just result in the same shitstorm?

[Ninian]

Wow. I now know EXACTLY what I need to change. (No sarcasm intended.)

[CT075]

I honestly could not justify reopening this topic without some sort of breakdown on the just all kinds of bad that went down in here.

>proceeds to reopen topic

wait fuck i get it now ignore me

Edited December 29, 2013 by CT075

[Ninian]

I think a fresh start is in order. Too much "ick" back there. Advice, definitely, but lots of nasty comments flying all over the place, a lot of it from my stupidly mistaken mind...

Edited December 29, 2013 by Ninian

[FrostyFireMage]

How did this even get this popular...?

It tends to happen when people get unreasonable.

[Kon]

I think a fresh start is in order. Too much "ick" back there. Advice, definitely, but lots of nasty comments flying all over the place, a lot of it from my stupidly mistaken mind...

Edit: Shauni, I hate to ask this, but could you change your signature? I have a fear of spiders...

There's no need to ask that, Ninian. If you don't want to see a signature all you have to do is mouse over the post and hit the X that appears at the top-right of the signature~

Edited December 29, 2013 by Kon

[Klokinator]

Edit: Shauni, I hate to ask this, but could you change your signature? I have a fear of spiders...

Edited December 29, 2013 by IM FAE OMG!!

[Ninian]

So THAT's what that does. Geez, you just stopped a dispute! I'm impressed!

[Kon]

I doubt it would have gone that far, I just figured I would let you know how to do that to avoid unnecessary trouble~

[Ninian]

Thanks, though.

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for the hack? (That aren't about my writing, I'm working on improving that.) Maybe added playable characters, or items or such?

[R.O.Berc]

So if Ninian becomes a manakete, who becomes the new dancer?

Must have one dancer and one bard.

[Klokinator]

So if Ninian becomes a manakete, who becomes the new dancer?

Must have one dancer and one bard.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that be Nils? Like seriously.

[Ninian]

My original idea was for her to be a Sage with Light magic, Dancing, and Dragonstones. And a very late recruitment to offset it. And it still allows for Supports.

We're still working out the kinks.

Heya, Klok. Nice picture in your signature, by the way. (Although I have a hack that replaces the monsters...) Good effort, though.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Ninian

[Lisandra_brave]

Heya, Klok. Nice picture in your signature, by the way. (Although I have a hack that replaces the monsters...) Good effort, though.

What if there was one that did the opposite? Like, all the enemies were monsters, instead of people? Something like this?

[Shauni]

Sounds like quite the interesting hack, Lisandra.