Tables Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This is what most disappointed me about the run. It was such bad representation for the series. And some of the things the commentators got wrong (and were never corrected on) were just shocking. Like, rescue penalties being higher if the rescued unit's CON is higher? I've never heard of that even as some kind of strange rumor. At least Luck adding to crit isn't an uncommon misconception, but it's still a fairly amateurish mistake. Eh, maybe I'm being overly harsh on them because I know the games as well as I do. But then, if they're gonna be speedrunners and commentators, they should know these things, right? This site was even mentioned, so it's not like they don't know where the information is. It's easy to say the wrong thing, or accidentally say something incorrect as you try and give an explanation for something. That said, I'm not sure how much I could believe that to be the case, considering the kind of mistakes being made. I've heard that Mikuyama was pretty angry with Bertin after the run. Maybe he's aware of just how below the par it should be for a FE game. Maybe we have a chance at another marathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 once i finish FE6, i promise engaging commentary and quality gameplay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan_12 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 What probably upsets me the most is that people who saw the run now think FE speedrunning is boring even though that run isn't at all representative of what optimized FE speedrunning looks like. Just look at some of the messages in that reddit: I guess that's rhe problem with any FE game (and why it's not marathon friendly). And everyone who knows Sacred Stone, Chapter 15 is one of the hardest chapters ingame (casually of course) I was really looking forward to this run as I'm a huge FE fan. Turns out it's not the most exciting game to watch speedrun. Especially when you get that unlucky. Felt bad for the guy. Would love to see an Awakening run Yea it was still worth watching, I just prefer the platformer speed runs where it's based more off of skill than luck. Not taking anything away from the speed runners of course, they are still far more skilled than I at the game. I guess I'm just spoiled by getting to watch people like Siglemic, Cosmo, etc. I can't exactly go in there and say "the AGDQ run was bad, here's some videos showing how it should've been done" since that would just make me look like an elitist asshole. So in that regard I'm kind of forced to let the FE speedrunning community's reputation get tarnished without being able to talk back in any meaningful way, especially since I already acted rather immaturely in the AGDQ chat during the run. I just hope this whole ordeal blows over soon enough and that I can still get Radiant Dawn into SGDQ or the next AGDQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Bertin's blaming bad luck, lol. Though it's really easy to avoid bad luck in single segment speedruns by using Vulneraries and Elixirs and such... It's not optimal but for AGDQ it's common sense. Edited January 9, 2014 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 once i finish FE6, i promise engaging commentary and quality gameplay And never finish it like FE7 amirite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Bertin didn't know what the hell he was doing =/ I'm disappointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That guy is trash lmao. Like...holy shit. It sucks that he was the one to run and make everyone think FE sucks for speedrunning. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) It's worse that he was crossdressing as Sanae. =_= Why did the FE community have to get the worst possible representative? Edited January 9, 2014 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan_12 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Well, one thing's for sure. If any GBA FE game is even allowed back in the event, it will have to be an RNG planned route, which I think is for the best anyway based on how the game's RNG works. Oh btw, legrandgrand has routed FE7 (similar to Molotov's route but with minor differences) and he's capable of cursor movement as fast as I use in FE8. Be sure to check out his twitch channel and throw him a follow if you like what you see. Keep in mind that french is his first language although he does speak english equally well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 And never finish it like FE7 amirite FE6 is more interesting, more difficult, and this run is better planned and better executed. I'm pretty sure that I'll have much more incentive to finish this run. I can't exactly go in there and say "the AGDQ run was bad, here's some videos showing how it should've been done" since that would just make me look like an elitist asshole. So in that regard I'm kind of forced to let the FE speedrunning community's reputation get tarnished without being able to talk back in any meaningful way, especially since I already acted rather immaturely in the AGDQ chat during the run. I think you're more than excused to complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I just hope this whole ordeal blows over soon enough and that I can still get Radiant Dawn into SGDQ or the next AGDQ.That would be awesome, plus I'm pretty sure we can all trust you to know what the hell you're talking about. (Referring back to my earlier post of simple mechanical mistakes they were making) Bertin's blaming bad luck, lol. Though it's really easy to avoid bad luck in single segment speedruns by using Vulneraries and Elixirs and such... It's not optimal but for AGDQ it's common sense.He did get enough bad RNG (his Seth was pretty weak), but I also felt like half the problems were his own mistakes and he didn't have enough backup strats in case things went wrong. The time he attacked Caellach with Saleh with an 83 displayed hit was especially bad since it was a total risk knowing Saleh would die if he missed and he'd have to restart the ~10 minutes he'd done on the chapter. And look at that; Saleh missed and died. Well, one thing's for sure. If any GBA FE game is even allowed back in the event, it will have to be an RNG planned route, which I think is for the best anyway based on how the game's RNG works.Yeah, I wasn't sure how entertaining that would be, but after watching your FE8 world record I think it would be pretty cool in a marathon since every move is pretty significant even if it occasionally looks like a bunch of odd mistakes. Displaying that and explaining how it all works would make for a good show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I agree with the sentiments expressed so far regarding the optimization in the AGDQ run, in both a strategic and technical sense. Honestly, if I was more aware who Molotov and Bertin were wrt to FE speedrunning, I would have tried more toward the Molotov run. >_> I think a truly optimized run could be impressive in the both fixed RNG and not fixed RNG games. Really good commentary would be needed to appreciate and emphasize the strategizing/routing ofc, something a la Pokemon and Golden Sun. Inevitably some people prefer the action/platformer speedruns, but there's also precedent for people really enjoying RNG heavy (or fixed), less technical/flashy, and long downtime games, if the routing is very good (and the runner is entertaining, I suppose). tbh in the GBA games, there's really no excuse about RNG, though I understand the concerns about entertainment value. IIRC, I read somewhere on SDA the AGDQ organizers specifically were concerned about it, but were impressed by some test runs using RNG manip. Edited January 9, 2014 by XeKr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 thoroughly manipulated GBAFE is pretty flashy, for certain definitions of the word. you can go really overkill if you wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Oh I certainly agree, I was speaking a more nebulous "wtf I've never seen that before" sense. Not too much game mechanics/physics breaking in FE, beyond the intended. While there's also notable technical movement/cursor demands necessary in optimized runs, it doesn't 'look' that technical and crazy-looking. On the surface, it mostly looks like you moved some characters to some random positions and just got really lucky. ofc it's hard to judge the general viewer opinion on this (probably doesn't exist a consensus either) and I may not be thinking of the correct tricks atm. Edited January 9, 2014 by XeKr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Lightning Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Oh well, as long as I can see any FE again, I hope it makes it back next year; its been really fun watching these speedruns, and I'd be miffed if FE wasn't represented in some way. In other news, I think my fave speedruns so far have been the Twilight Princess run (stayed up till 4 AM to watch that one; was worth it to see all those glitches and sequence breaks, but my sleep schedule payed the price) and that Diddy Kong Racing run last night (so...much...nostalgia! That awesome music was the music of my childhood and seeing someone completely break the game in record time was amazing, along with all the shouts of "Get ready...GO!!!". I felt so happy watching it all). ^_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheon Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Oh well, as long as I can see any FE again, I hope it makes it back next year; its been really fun watching these speedruns, and I'd be miffed if FE wasn't represented in some way. In other news, I think my fave speedruns so far have been the Twilight Princess run (stayed up till 4 AM to watch that one; was worth it to see all those glitches and sequence breaks, but my sleep schedule payed the price) and that Diddy Kong Racing run last night (so...much...nostalgia! That awesome music was the music of my childhood and seeing someone completely break the game in record time was amazing, along with all the shouts of "Get ready...GO!!!". I felt so happy watching it all). ^_^ If you like Toufool's 100% run last night, you should definitely check out his any% run that he did for SGDQ in 2013. He alluded to the run as he was introducing the game, but he didn't mention that he broke the world record with the any% run back at SGDQ. I don't know if the record still stands for any%, but the run is definitely worth checking out. Here's his run at SGDQ 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ct8n1CClUM) Edited January 9, 2014 by DualSilverGunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan_12 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yeah, I wasn't sure how entertaining that would be, but after watching your FE8 world record I think it would be pretty cool in a marathon since every move is pretty significant even if it occasionally looks like a bunch of odd mistakes. Displaying that and explaining how it all works would make for a good show. One thing that's cool about such a run is that I can tell the audience what a particular level-up will be just before it happens, and on every single level-up in the game. Same thing for crits, misses, etc. It almost makes it look like I'm looking into the future, which has a bit of a wtf factor in itself, especially for those who don't understand what's going on. I'd be sure to explain everything that's going on regardless as I've had plenty of practice using a mic during my streams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Lightning Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 If you like Toufool's 100% run last night, you should definitely check out his any% run that he did for SGDQ in 2013. He alluded to the run as he was introducing the game, but he didn't mention that he broke the world record with the any% run back at SGDQ. I don't know if the record still stands for any%, but the run is definitely worth checking out. Here's his run at SGDQ 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ct8n1CClUM) Yeah, I definitely loved his run, so I'll checkout his other ones, especially that world record one. I never got very far in that story mode (really hard racing game when you think it was meant for kids) so its nice to see the stuff I never unlocked in epic speedrunning fashion. Also, I haven't been watching much today, so does anyone know why the schedule was pushed back over two hours? I was planning on tuning in for the Portal 1 and 2 runs that should've been starting at 12:45 last time I checked the schedule, but now it seems I have to wait until after 3 AM......oh well, looks like I'm saying good bye to a good night's rest again.... >_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbymastah Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Red Fox of Fire: This commentator is terrible Red Fox of Fire: He said that rescue penalties are based on the CON of the rescued unit Red Fox of Fire: I've never even heard of that as a rumor or something Red Fox of Fire: Oh God Red Fox of Fire: Now they're saying that Luck adds to your crit Red Fox of Fire: I think Red Fox of Fire: They kind of mentioned it but then focused on how it reduces enemy crit Red Fox of Fire: "Pirates get a big avoid boost from the water" Red Fox of Fire: +10 avoid Red Fox of Fire: Amelia is a really good unit Red Fox of Fire: UGH Red Fox of Fire: "Swordmaster gets +5% crit" Red Fox of Fire: No one corrects him Red Fox of Fire: Laments over leaving an enemy at 1 HP Red Fox of Fire: Used Thunder when he had Elfire Red Fox of Fire: Donator mentions Ike solo as potential speedrun category Red Fox of Fire: "It basically is the speedrun already" Red Fox of Fire: Holy shit these people know nothing Red Fox of Fire: >Rescues Seth Red Fox of Fire: >Hesitates, doesn't know where to go Wait, did they seriously say that? What the hell? Now I'm seriously disappointed that I missed the run because of random drama back at home. I would've corrected every single one of those <_< I apologize for that, it would've been better if I were able to make it at that day... Also I plan on offering FE10 (assuming vykan12 doesn't; if he does, I'll yield it to him and commentate for him) for SGDQ2014. I'm going to PM romscout, maybe even link this thread (romscout is the head of SGDQ), and explain that the AGDQ2014 FE8 run was not representative at all of a good FE speedrun, and that FE10 is much better for marathons. Heck, IMO FE10 is the best FE game for speedrunning period. Edited January 12, 2014 by kirbymastah1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Wait, did they seriously say that? What the hell? Now I'm seriously disappointed that I missed the run because of random drama back at home. I would've corrected every single one of those <_< I apologize for that, it would've been better if I were able to make it at that day... Also I plan on offering FE10 (assuming vykan12 doesn't; if he does, I'll yield it to him and commentate for him) for SGDQ2014. I'm going to PM romscout, maybe even link this thread (romscout is the head of SGDQ), and explain that the AGDQ2014 FE8 run was not representative at all of a good FE speedrun, and that FE10 is much better for marathons. Heck, IMO FE10 is the best FE game for speedrunning period. Ahh, so that's why you weren't there. Sorry to hear that. I wasn't there for the entire thing, but they did say some various incorrect things during the time I was watching (which was about one hour - after the 2nd death in chapter 14 I decided to give up and go play board games with friends). In retrospect, perhaps the run wasn't quite so much Bertin being bad, but was a combination of an overly tight estimate, less than great play and horrific RNG, as well as the fact the run really should have been a fixed RNG route. He made a lot of mistakes, but it wasn't so much as I think I initially thought, and the other factors really made it look bad. I agree that FE10 is probably the best FE for speedrunning, at least out of ones I've played. The non-fixed RNG means it's not just about movement optimisation, while BEXP and the like gives scope for dealing with said RNG effectively. It's just a shame there's SO MUCH MASHING. At a marathon, FE6-8 would be neat to see at least once (with RNG manipulation), and an FE9 fixed mode although suboptimal (you want blessing growths wise) would be pretty cool. Also great to see you're planning to run it. Vykan has said he's going to offer FE10, and if you're on the couch for it that'd also be great. I was actually almost tempted to go to SGDQ if FE10 got accepted, but having had a look at costs, it's kind of... unviable if I wasn't going to run something myself. Which I'm not, because I don't speedrun anything well :P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Can't say I know how they go about choosing games and assigning slots for these GDQ events, but is it possible that it would be tough to get RD a slot after this FE8 attempt when it would need probably about 3:20? While it may be the best for speedrunning, it's also the longest. It might be easier to get the series running with a shorter game first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 i'd consider offering FE6 if i ever finish the route for it... and get the game cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YayMarsha Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's confirmed that I have an early slot in bonus stream to show off the Rekka run, if anybody still cares. The first thing I plan to do is correct some of the statements made in the commentary for Sacred Stones, because I know everybody is up in arms about that. For the record, I tried to correct some of that during the stream, but I wasn't on the couch and didn't have a microphone. Nobody cared about what I had to say. :( But yeah, hopefully I can get a clean run so that the series has a chance in future marathons. My run is completely memorized and all that, so I can practically guarantee something in the 1:3x range. My personal best game time is 1:27:xx now, so if I can beat that in this run, I'll be really pleased. My route has changed a bit since I uploaded the test run to YouTube, so some of it should be new to people. I can't give an exact time estimate on when the run will happen, but it's safe to assume it'll be on or before 1:30 PM. My best guess would be around noon. Regardless, I hope everybody here will show their support so we can get some more Fire Emblem games in future marathons. (I disagree that 10 is a good choice, by the way. 6 or 9 would be much wiser to suggest, in my opinion.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 what timezone are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YayMarsha Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Oh, I should've mentioned that. It's Eastern Standard Time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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