Inception Mafia

[Parrhesia]

Well, I guess there's not really much to go on so I'm just gonna go with ##Vote: Parrhesia for now and see where it takes me. Cheers

It'll take you to a world of pain because this is a poorly thought-out post. Oh, and I'm scummy for just bandwagoning on other opinions. He says, while quoting someone else's post and just going "yeah, i guess so, wow"

There's a problem with that image, see.

Let's cut a deal, The. You give me some solid evidence and I'll act on it. In the meantime, I'm going on gut instincts and 'this lad feels a bit funny'. I'll give this thread a look over in the morning, lay down my vote, wonder why this Day phase is so fucking long and go to work.

[Percivalé]

Reasons Why I Want to Lynch Prims and Why You Should Lynch Him Too, the movie:

Okay so even though I fucked up and completely misinterpreted the way he attacked Manix in the beginning, here's what I see.

-His weird reaction test on me ED1 (#60) which seems out of character because I would have expected a vote from him a lot sooner, usually.

Bizz is also a likely scum candidate.

Not to mention I was voting him at the time and it feels paranoid. His jumping on an RVS wagon is null though because he does that a lot.

-After this, I ask him why he thought I was likely scum and he responds with a dodgy question. Didn't like that at all, usually he responds more directly. That's another thing--his overall tone hasn't been as direct this game as it usually is? A lot of what he says is usually more to the point and I wasn't getting this from him much, earlier in the day phase.

-this from manix (#86):

random thought: prims how did you think of the redirecting problem with my role so quickly, considering no one else had thought of it, namely rein, who had been pushing my case?

this is actually a really good point, and Prims didn't respond seriously to this question either.

-then he completely withdraws his statement on me as a reaction test but the way he did it felt really clumsy. I'm known to attack people who make cases on me that I feel aren't sound, and I know he knows this too. Another thing about this that bothers me is that I have done exactly this where I'll say someone is likely scum but not why, and then get attacked by the person who I've accused, because of course they want to know why I think they're scum. Why is me wanting to know why he thought I was scum so weird? I did the same thing in fakeclaim when I thought Eclipse was scum and got annoyed that she kept waffling on her read on me. Keep in mind, at this time I wasn't as confident in my Prims read as I am now.

-

They had no reason to get defensive because I had absolutely nothing on them.

How could I have known this though...........

-

Asking questions ED1 isn't scummy, guys. I'm trying to move the game along so I can actually have opinions on more than 2 people!!

This really pinged me because this post reads like how he usually defends himself when he's scum. No one was getting on him for asking questions; they were getting on him for dancing around his "reaction test" on me. But he generalized it anyway and man it just rubbed me the wrong way.

-I feel like when Prims is scum he has a tendency to add very small remarks like "if you think I'm scum and you're town you're dumb" etc. onto his defenses and it's subtle but it has made me move my vote away from him before when he was scum. I get really really wary of him when he does this. some examples include:

Why is this relevant beyond you looking for reasons to cling onto a bad case?

"cling onto a bad case", #111

I think Manix feels like he needs to keep his vote down on me though which is iffy and pretty dumb of him if he's town.

"iffy and pretty dumb of him if he's town," #121

Via's posts are eyeroll-worthy. A lot of them irk me

then goes on to

Well it's hard not to roll your eyes when somebody says they're "89% certain" you're scum when you have a town role PM.

I REALLY did not like this at all because this feels so unnecessary and like another way to make me un-confident in my vote on him, because yeah you can say with certainty from your POV that you're town and if you sound convincing enough that usually makes me change my mind. But the only one that can see Prims's PM is Prims and I don't see it so I can't know this. This is just really scummy to me I dunno.

-Prims finally votes me but he said multiple times that he wouldn't vote me rn and although I can agree that I'm kinda bad for being paranoid about his opinion on me even though I think he's scum, I still think he waffled on me a lot and I still don't like it at all.

There's not a lot I can really say about his case on me either aside from the fact that I do acknowledge that I've been playing badly but that's about all I can do lol.

There might be some stuff I missed, but this is the most of it. I really do feel like I missed something but yeah I really do think Prims is acting like scum and based on past games I was just paranoid about what would happen if I tried to push it like this because IDK I should stop being so scared. sorry.

Rein case coming tomorrow. this wore me out

[Percivalé]

Manix should join me on this wagon because personal bias aside there's a shitton more disconnect in Bizz's posts than there is in Eury's (who is a girl btw Strege).

OH YEAH I didn't like this at all either mmmmmmmmmmm

[Percivalé]

but yeah, to everyone else my role really does not make sense for scum to have unless you made a really convoluted case about it but I guess there's no way for you to know that because you can't see my PM lol. still though.

peace out for the night.

[Prims]

Dissection:

-His weird reaction test on me ED1 (#60) which seems out of character because I would have expected a vote from him a lot sooner, usually.

Not to mention I was voting him at the time and it feels paranoid. His jumping on an RVS wagon is null though because he does that a lot.

Not sure what you mean by the first.

You voting me at the time doesn't have anything to do with anything because it was a jokevote.

Why did you mention me jumping on an RVS wagon if it's not relevant? Padding imo.

-After this, I ask him why he thought I was likely scum and he responds with a dodgy question. Didn't like that at all, usually he responds more directly. That's another thing--his overall tone hasn't been as direct this game as it usually is? A lot of what he says is usually more to the point and I wasn't getting this from him much, earlier in the day phase.

My tone hasn't been very direct because I haven't had many strong reads. I ask questions so that people will respond and I can have more to judge them on, giving me a chance to come up with stronger reads. I'm not even that certain about Rein/kirsche right now despite suspecting them.

-this from manix (#86):

this is actually a really good point, and Prims didn't respond seriously to this question either.

Actually, it's a terrible point and "I'm smart" was a serious response because there is not a better one to give. Sorry for actually thinking about role shenanigans since Manix himself couldn't I guess. Somebody (I forget who) also added that it makes more sense for me to keep it to myself and do what I was suggesting if I was scum with a redirecting role, which is valid.

-then he completely withdraws his statement on me as a reaction test but the way he did it felt really clumsy. I'm known to attack people who make cases on me that I feel aren't sound, and I know he knows this too.

-How could I have known this though...........

I've already pointed it out that the statement had to be a reaction test because you had posted jack shit I could use to back it up with as a serious statement. You, uh, made a jokevote in the RVS I guess, how am I going to argue that made you a "likely scum candidate"? If I was worried you would attack me then there's no reason for me to even bring the issue up in the first place and draw your ire. Obviously you'd know you hadn't done anything suspicious because you hadn't.

Another thing about this that bothers me is that I have done exactly this where I'll say someone is likely scum but not why, and then get attacked by the person who I've accused, because of course they want to know why I think they're scum. Why is me wanting to know why he thought I was scum so weird? I did the same thing in fakeclaim when I thought Eclipse was scum and got annoyed that she kept waffling on her read on me. Keep in mind, at this time I wasn't as confident in my Prims read as I am now.

It just read self-conscious to me - enough to ask you about it, since again, I ask questions to help me develop reads. I don't really remember much of fakeclaim so yeah.

-This really pinged me because this post reads like how he usually defends himself when he's scum. No one was getting on him for asking questions; they were getting on him for dancing around his "reaction test" on me. But he generalized it anyway and man it just rubbed me the wrong way.

-I feel like when Prims is scum he has a tendency to add very small remarks like "if you think I'm scum and you're town you're dumb" etc. onto his defenses and it's subtle but it has made me move my vote away from him before when he was scum. I get really really wary of him when he does this.

Well, I'm town and if people think I'm scum and they're town then they're dumb. 8) If I ever say that as scum it's because it's what I'm thinking when people attack me as town anyway.

-Prims finally votes me but he said multiple times that he wouldn't vote me rn and although I can agree that I'm kinda bad for being paranoid about his opinion on me even though I think he's scum, I still think he waffled on me a lot and I still don't like it at all.

I did waffle, but townies are perfectly capable of waffling.I wasn't really confident on my case enough to vote until I took the time to re-read you later because I wasn't feeling super hot about my Rein vote (although Rein is scummy).

[Prims]

-This really pinged me because this post reads like how he usually defends himself when he's scum. No one was getting on him for asking questions; they were getting on him for dancing around his "reaction test" on me. But he generalized it anyway and man it just rubbed me the wrong way.

Missed this. People didn't like how I treated my reaction test because I was using it to ask questions, so yes, they were effectively voting me for asking questions. I did not feel that I was dancing around my reaction test; I was consistent about the point of my posts and I can't always come up with a surefire read from a single response. If anything, people expected too much from me.

[The Objection!]

Let's cut a deal, The. You give me some solid evidence and I'll act on it. In the meantime, I'm going on gut instincts and 'this lad feels a bit funny'. I'll give this thread a look over in the morning, lay down my vote, wonder why this Day phase is so fucking long and go to work.

And what kind of 'solid evidence' are actually expecting? Your lack of effort?

You voted Rein early game because "What else am I supposed to do lol?"

Then, you quoted Prims post only to say "You're over thinking" and pulled a prims vote out of your magic hat for god knows why 2 posts later.

Next, you got angry at Rein for saying you're opportunistic telling that "There's no solid information, what am I supposed to do?" Well the fact you're overlooking is that other people actually has reasons *gasp* for forming the wagon, even though they have the same amount of information as you do.

Only when Prims asked why you voted him do you reply "You sounded suss." which unless I'm understanding suss wrong, I missed the part where it is scummy.

At this point, people started voting you. To which you replied with the same thing you told us this whole game which is "There's no solid information, what am I supposed to do?" only difference is that you packaged it in a limited edition sarcastic version.

Then you proceeded to vote me for being an inactive, which in my opinion is close to (if not completely) useless. THE END

Now, answer me one question, which one of these can be considered 'content', and helps us find scum?

Let's cut a deal, The. You give me some solid evidence and I'll act on it. In the meantime, I'm going on gut instincts and 'this lad feels a bit funny'. I'll give this thread a look over in the morning, lay down my vote, wonder why this Day phase is so fucking long and go to work.

Now if you're actually doing this, good. If not, then tell me one reason why you shouldn't be lynched right now.

[Prims]

Votals

Rein (3): kirsche, Shinori, scorri

Eurykins (2): Manix, Strege

Levity (2): SB, Prims

Manix (2): Rein, Eurykins

Prims (2): Levity, Euklyd

Parrhesia (1): Objection

Not Voting (6): Grassbridger, j00, Kay, Parrhesia, Polydeuces, Refa

cba to wait for BradBladeMeteor so here's votals by the way. Technically I have 3 if Euklyd's claim is to be believed.

We should probably work on that whole consolidation thing since we need a whopping 10 people to hammer. At the very least real wagons would be nice. Besides Via, I'd lynch Rein, not really interested in Manix wagon and obviously won't lynch myself. Parrhesia and Eury I think are more town than not but aren't strong enough reads that I'd object to offing them.

[Parrhesia]

And what kind of 'solid evidence' are actually expecting? Your lack of effort?

That's not solid evidence. A cop seeing someone is scum is solid evidence. Obviously. Are you new, drunk, or were you just dropped on your head as a child too many times?

You voted Rein early game because "What else am I supposed to do lol?"

Yes, I did! Which, when there was a new target, I changed my vote. You know. Because there was a better target? I notice during this vital and instinctive period of the game you voted for- oh, you weren't even there. But no, that's unfair, I'm sure if you were you would've shat up the thread with more incessant, tedious wankery like your most recent shit of a post.

Then, you quoted Prims post only to say "You're over thinking" and pulled a prims vote out of your magic hat for god knows why 2 posts later.

Because I was thinking directly. Because I was there on the spot (unlike noted inactive 'The Objection' who was wanking in the closet) and he looked a little more suss than everyone else. I directly stated this wasn't for any overthought piss-streak of a reason and I would be willing to change.

Next, you got angry at Rein for saying you're opportunistic telling that "There's no solid information, what am I supposed to do?" Well the fact you're overlooking is that other people actually has reasons *gasp* for forming the wagon, even though they have the same amount of information as you do.

Can you please put this post into real sentences? Cheers OP

From what I can gather you're saying he used the meagre information at his disposal to vote for me. This is true. Meanwhile, because I admit I have no hard evidence, I am not allowed to vote at all. If this is not the message, then please learn to write in the English language.

Only when Prims asked why you voted him do you reply "You sounded suss." which unless I'm understanding suss wrong, I missed the part where it is scummy.

You know. Suspicious. Maybe go back and read what was happening back then. Or have you just jumped on every post I've written out of context?

At this point, people started voting you. To which you replied with the same thing you told us this whole game which is "There's no solid information, what am I supposed to do?" only difference is that you packaged it in a limited edition sarcastic version.

Yes. That is what I said. Why is this bad? Tell me why this means I am a member of the Undercover Cops faction otherwise known as scum the enemy.

Then you proceeded to vote me for being an inactive, which in my opinion is close to (if not completely) useless. THE END

you posted 'the end' and then continued posting

it's okay, you could've stopped there

I voted you to pressure you into talking. It was an established tradition when I was playing, which was before you were even born. When it became obvious nobody was going to join me, which would've added actual pressure for you to fucking talk, I dropped it.

Now, answer me one question, which one of these can be considered 'content', and helps us find scum?

Waiting for night actions to come in. Certainly not the drivel you've just shat onto a page and called an accusation.

Now if you're actually doing this, good. If not, then tell me one reason why you shouldn't be lynched right now.

I was actually planning to post in this thread again. Did you just admit your argument would fall apart if I ever looked in the thread again? Even I didn't think it was that flimsy, for fuck's sake.

There's no reason why I shouldn't be lynched right now, from an objective standpoint. But there's like twenty of us. Surely, with that field of play to pick from, could you maybe choose one you can find reasons to lynch?

I don't think you're scum, btw. Don't have any evidence on that front. You're just trying too hard to be useful, and it's fallen flat because you're kind of stupid.

[Parrhesia]

I mean I really don't like ad hominem attacks, but that was just such a cuntish shitpost. Really.

[Parrhesia]

Do you know why I haven't been witch-hunting over bullshit like that? Because it's not one of my skills. I'll admit that! I don't think like that! I'm quite happy to read over the thread and weigh up people's viewpoints, but it's not something I can cast the first stone of.

Because frankly I'd be shit at it, and it would get me killed. It is in nobody's interests for me to throw myself to the wolves for pretending I know what I'm talking about when I'm just making shit up. Bring on Night 1.

[Prims]

only voting based on "hard evidence" is a good way to leave the game up to the RNG. just throwing that out there

gonna requote this:

Furet himself frustrates me because like... okay, you haven't played this game in ages; yes, it's still the same game but also people who played back when you did were Not Very Good At It, so some of the old gameplay theory is gonna be flawed. Just because D1 is a crapshoot doesn't make it a good idea to sit back and do jack shit, in fact that tends to result in D2 being just as bad. Plus D1 scum lynches have happened as a result of people actually trying.

basically if everybody played like you're doing right now then if scum found the cop town would have no chance of winning whatsoever

scumhunting is always going to be valid, people post differently when they're mafia from when they're town because they have a different win condition and different intent. it is literally not possible to doctor your post to the extent it's the exact same thing you'd post as town as long as you've read your role PM and know who your scumbuddies are. granted it sucks on day 1 when there aren't any dead guys to see how people interacted with, but that doesn't excuse waiting on a cop to solve the game for you

[Prims]

oh i got cut by a post saying "But I suck at that". well OK but the amount of "lol people voting without hard evidence are idiot noobs" is pretty grating

[Parrhesia]

None of these words have context yet, or at least context I'm willing to say confidently I'm doing anything more than making up. My opinion on this isn't magically going to change. If you don't like my playstyle, that's your problem, and probably also mine, but it doesn't make me scum.

There's a reason I haven't played Mafia in forever, jesus christ.

[Parrhesia]

Fuck this. If you have an accusation to make, then accuse me. If you're just going to criticise me because I don't like throwing myself into the game without any fucking thing to go on, then fuck off.

[scorri]

Actually, yeah, Objection's vote post on Furet is basically terrible.

He literally just went "Furet's bad becasuse

and in summary has no opinions of his own."

Like... hello pot, have you met kettle?

That being said, Furet, maybe take a step back and don't let it be so personal? I know it's frustrating, but just... take a breath. You getting angry won't solve anything.

[scorri]

##Unvote

##Vote:Objection

Herp derp forgot to change my vote.

[Prims]

The most suspicious thing I think you're doing is acting this mad because people disagree with you in a mafia game which makes me wonder if you're just pretending to overreact for laughs. If this isn't the case then you definitely need to chill; right now you're hardly even in danger of being lynched and the personal attacks against Objection weren't really called for even if you thought his post was dumb.

Basically, don't be a dick.

[Parrhesia]

Why would I pretend to overreact for laughs. Do you think I'm a fucking pantomime. Fuck off and come back with some solid fucking analysis relevant to the fucking game.

[Prims]

There's precedent of Life doing this kind of shit for the sake of emotional manipulation, and also a game where he intentionally underplayed his ability to play NOC so people would give him a pass.

Instead of telling me to fuck off you just stop being an ass to everybody; if you're town then it saves your fellow townies the headache and if you're scum it makes me not want to lynch you just to save myself the trouble of figuring out whether you're being obtrusive on purpose or not.

[Prims]

*you should just

Honestly between this and the Manix/Eury slapfight and the 4+ inactives I don't really want to look at this game right now. Fuck if I know why I'm doing it anyway. mafia sucks

[Parrhesia]

I apologise for everything except calling Objection a fucking imbecile, because frankly he is.

[Parrhesia]

mafia sucks

why did people want me to join. seriously. this is a crock of shit and everyone involved is miserable, this game fucking eats lives and shits poison.

[Prims]

idk dude. If you're not having fun then that doesn't make it okay to be That Guy and make the game unfun for everybody else by being a douche about it.

Question for Objection: if Parrhesia hadn't been "doing nothing" then you'd have just as little content as he has, because you've said nothing about anybody else. Why is it a scummy "lack of effort" when he drops votes based on other people's cases, but not when you do the same thing? Furthermore, why would you not put in an effort to have opinions on other players if you think his lack of effort is scummy? I would probably consider voting you after Via/Rein right now.

[Parrhesia]

it's not a conscious decision i'm just not taking this well and i acknowledge that.

time for an effort post