What Makes Chrom a Marth/Ike rehash?

[HK Motendra]

I've heard this mentioned plenty of times and have yet to see anyone state an actual reason for this.Yes, I'll admit Awakening was a jack-of-all things good throughout the series, but don't you think this is a little pushing it? Granted, I wont deny that there may be similarities, but I'd really like to know where the idea comes from.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Hero-King

[Lance Masayoshi]

The fact he can use Aether for one. And since, Marth and Chrom killed a Dragon in the end, and Ike and Chrom defeated a king of sorts, Ike in FE9, same with Gangrel and Walhart in FE13. Marth as well shares this, as he defeats Michalis and Hardin which were both kings and has traits like them. But Walhart has more similarities to Ashnard than anything else.

[HK Motendra]

I had a feeling that someone would bring up Aether. And I'm surprised no one brought this up either. Has it ever occurred to anyone that Aether could just be a Lord exclusive skill that became a standard? I mean, I know that Ike is famed for it, but if that is so, then why is there no explanation to Priam not having it, when he's his descendant?

Marth and Chrom may have faced similar situations, but that doesn't pertain to Chrom. Just the plot, which was rather cliched. Chrom's personality is very much different from Marth's and the only thing they share in common besides being royalty and having blue hair is the Falchion

Edited January 31, 2014 by Hero-King

[Tables]

Aether and Falchion, as well as blue hair, solid all around stats following a weak start. I'd say those are the main reasons.

I had a feeling that someone would bring up Aether. And I'm surprised no one brought this up either. Has it ever occurred to anyone that Aether could just be a Lord exclusive skill that became a standard?

Bear in mind, Chrom was the first non-Ike person in the series to use Aether. Until Chrom, it was exclusively Ike's special skill.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Tables

[HK Motendra]

That could very well be explained due to the fact that Tellius is the most recent continent before Ylisse. As for Micaiah, well, she only uses magic, which disqualiies her from possibly gaining it

Edited January 31, 2014 by Hero-King

[Leinex]

Chrom's personality is a lot like Ike's. If you play one of the Tellius games, you'll probably see it too. Also, he's Marth's descendant...

[HK Motendra]

Perhaps. If you're talking about the whole "fighting for your friends" thing, isn't that typical for most protagonists anyway? And I fail to see how him being Marth's descendant makes him similar to him, other than Falchion

Edited January 31, 2014 by Hero-King

[Lance Masayoshi]

Chrom's personality is a lot like Ike's. If you play one of the Tellius games, you'll probably see it too. Also, he's Marth's descendant...

First are you talking about Ike or Chrom? Just a question of conformation.

[RJWalker]

I don't see how Chrom's personality is like Ike. Ike goes out his way to provide aid to the affected villages in Daein. Chrom, along with Flavia and Basilio, robs Plegia blind and then ignores it for 2 years, letting it fall to chaos.

[Leinex]

First are you talking about Ike or Chrom? Just a question of conformation.

Chrom, sorry.

Perhaps. If you're talking about the whole "fighting for your friends" thing, isn't that typical for most protagonists anyway? And I fail to see how him being Marth's descendant makes him similar to him, other than Falchion

Sure, but Chrom sounds like Ike too...I'm not talking about voice acting, by the way. As for the part about Marth, they're related for one thing. I don't really know what everyone else would say, but I think it's mostly "prince like Marth and leads a group of merry fighters like Ike". At the very beginning of the story, the Shepards are about the same size as Greil's Mercenaries.

I don't see how Chrom's personality is like Ike. Ike goes out his way to provide aid to the affected villages in Daein. Chrom, along with Flavia and Basilio, robs Plegia blind and then ignores it for 2 years, letting it fall to chaos.

My point is that some of the stuff Chrom says sounds like things Ike would say.

Eh, you're right. I think the writers just needed an excuse for everything after the time skip to happen and didn't think too much.

[BrightBow]

I would really like to know what those big similarities are that people see in those three.

Marth was someone who fought even against his friend Hardin in order to protect the people of an enemy nation.

Ike tried it's hardest to support the people of the country he invaded and would later risk his neck in order to get those same people to stop attacking them instead of crushing them.

Chrom however, has absolutely no sense of responsibility towards the people under his power. As long as his personal friends and family are happy, he can't be bothered to care.

During the course of Awakening, Chrom crushes the military of two nations and then just left, leaving those two countries sink into chaos. One of them in an entire continent.

When he later finds out that his negligence lead to the people of Plegia not only being massacred by bandits like usual in Fire Emblem but actually eaten by Grima, he completely ignores it.

Instead, he just goes on about a future that those poor bastards are never going to see because of him.

He can't be bothered to care about his own people either.

He never became a king during the two years of the time skip, nor did he show even the slightest bit of consideration for the needs of his nation when it had to be decided if the Avatar should sacrifice herself.

He has blue as his primary color and he is generic friendly towards people right in front of him. That's about it.

Edited January 31, 2014 by BrightBow

[Leinex]

Chrom however, has absolutely no sense of responsibility towards the people under his power. As long as his personal friends and family are happy, he can't be bothered to care.

During the course of Awakening, Chrom crushes the military of two nations and then just left, leaving those two countries sink into chaos. One of them in an entire continent.

When he later finds out that his negligence lead to the people of Plegia not only being massacred by bandits like usual in Fire Emblem but actually eaten by Grima, he completely ignores it.

Instead, he just goes on about a future that those poor bastards are never going to see because of him.

He can't be bothered to care about his own people either.

He never became a king during the two years of the time skip, nor did he show even the slightest bit of consideration for the needs of his nation when it had to be decided if the Avatar should sacrifice herself.

Either Chrom is supposed to be morally ambiguous or the writers didn't care enough to think about all the implications of everything.

[LuxSpes]

Either Chrom is supposed to be morally ambiguous or the writers didn't care enough to think about all the implications of everything.

I'm pretty sure it's the second option here. This game has a lot of content, but due to this, they didn't concentrate on the details.

[HK Motendra]

Chrom, sorry.

Sure, but Chrom sounds like Ike too...I'm not talking about voice acting, by the way. As for the part about Marth, they're related for one thing. I don't really know what everyone else would say, but I think it's mostly "prince like Marth and leads a group of merry fighters like Ike". At the very beginning of the story, the Shepards are about the same size as Greil's Mercenaries.

The Shephard/Greil Mercenary comparison, I'll give to you.Though those are things that are more towards his status, rather than is overall personality.

Marth and Chrom may be kind and caring, but unlike Chrom, Marth puts others and his duties before his own happiness, where as Chrom can be rather selfish at times, such as choosing Emmeryn over his duties, and Robin over the world. Remember his quote:

I am prince before I am a son, or brother

[Ike-Mike]

I don't think he is a rehash as much as that he combines the best of both.

He has Marth's roots in royalty and sense of justice as well as Ike's unfetheredness and need of taking care of everything himself.

His swordfighting style is a mix, too. His movement is fluid and elegant yet brutish and unreserved.

So BrightBow, when are we going to meet up finally?

[King Calamity]

I actually think Chrom is more like Hector than any of the other lords. He's brash and irresponsible, and doesn't feel suited to life as a noble at all. He inherits power early when an older sibling dies suddenly, and has a hard time dealing with it. He fights a lot like Hector too.

When it comes to Chrom not being a very good king, I think that's just the result of the main story being really skimpy in Awakening, so it doesn't take as much time to justify some of these things as it probably should.

[Anacybele]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that like Ike, Chrom leads a group of warriors that fight off bandits and stuff every day. The Shepherds function in much the same way as the Greil Mercenaries do, only the former is led by a royal. Chrom also doesn't seem to like his royal life much, as he asks Gaius to show him what it's like outside of that in their support. And Chrom stole Aether. :P (well not literally, but you know what I mean) And Chrom has a younger sister that is a Cleric, like Ike.

Chrom has the Falchion and an older sister which Marth had. And Chrom rules the same country, only renamed. He's also pushed with a Pegasus knight, as Marth was.

[HK Motendra]

I don't think he is a rehash as much as that he combines the best of both.

He has Marth's roots in royalty and sense of justice as well as Ike's unfetheredness and need of taking care of everything himself.

His swordfighting style is a mix, too. His movement is fluid and elegant yet brutish and unreserved.

I can agree to this. he may have some elements of other people, but when you take pieces of other things and put them together, they create something new. Thank you for this.

I actually think Chrom is more like Hector than any of the other lords. He's brash and irresponsible, and doesn't feel suited to life as a noble at all. He inherits power early when an older sibling dies suddenly, and has a hard time dealing with it. He fights a lot like Hector too.

When it comes to Chrom not being a very good king, I think that's just the result of the main story being really skimpy in Awakening, so it doesn't take as much time to justify some of these things as it probably should.

I may not have done FE7, but find that highly doubtful. From what I've seen, Hector is reckless and blunt among the Lycian nobles and always speaks his mind.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that like Ike, Chrom leads a group of warriors that fight off bandits and stuff every day. The Shepherds function in much the same way as the Greil Mercenaries do, only the former is led by a royal. Chrom also doesn't seem to like his royal life much, as he asks Gaius to show him what it's like outside of that in their support. And Chrom stole Aether. :P (well not literally, but you know what I mean) And Chrom has a younger sister that is a Cleric, like Ike.

Chrom has the Falchion and an older sister which Marth had. And Chrom rules the same country, only renamed. He's also pushed with a Pegasus knight, as Marth was.

Crizix kind of already referred to that, in case you didnt notice. And I reiterate, that that does not do much about Chrom and his character, other than status. People can have the same status, but different ideals, personalities etc.

Chrom having sisters, similar to the both of them doesn't do much either, and neither does who he's heavily shipped with. Remember that this is Chrom that we're talking about, not the people he's acquainted with

Edited February 1, 2014 by Hero-King

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

They are completely different

Ike is a Leif rehash, except unlike Leif he actually grows to be a Leader while Leif become an angry dude in the previous game

Marth is... Marth. FE1 Marth and FE3 Marth is basically a player avatar, so he is not really comparable to any Lord. FE11 Marth is brilliant. FE12 Marth is like FE3 Marth.

Chrom is the closest to Sigurd. On this note, the whole Plegia stuff remind me on how Sigurd completely leaves the country that Sigurd invaded to its corrupt King, or something like that

Edited February 1, 2014 by JSND

[RJWalker]

I would like to know how a small group that seems to consist of barely 10 people manages to keep an entire country safe from bandits. There's no doubt that Chrom and Co only chanced by the village that was being attacked by barbarians in the Prologue.

Aside from appearance, Chrom is nothing like Marth or Ike. Chrom doesn't grow as a leader over the course of the game. Both Marth and Ike do. If Emmeryn's sacrifice was supposed to teach that violence is not always the answer, then that went over his head since he continues to fight his way throughout the game. If it was supposed to teach him that one life is expendable, then that went over his head too since he doesn't care about the whole world or the future generations since he's willing to screw them over so Avatar doesn't have to scarifice themselves.

[HK Motendra]

I would like to know how a small group that seems to consist of barely 10 people manages to keep an entire country safe from bandits. There's no doubt that Chrom and Co only chanced by the village that was being attacked by barbarians in the Prologue.

Aside from appearance, Chrom is nothing like Marth or Ike. Chrom doesn't grow as a leader over the course of the game. Both Marth and Ike do. If Emmeryn's sacrifice was supposed to teach that violence is not always the answer, then that went over his head since he continues to fight his way throughout the game. If it was supposed to teach him that one life is expendable, then that went over his head too since he doesn't care about the whole world or the future generations since he's willing to screw them over so Avatar doesn't have to scarifice themselves.

You talk as if the bandits are as large as an army. Marth and what he had left of the Altean Army, along with a few others were able to take on the Pirates of Galder, along with the Soothsire bandits. How is that any different?

I wouldn't say that he downright doesn't grow at all. Chrom may have taken on Emm's ideals, but he admits that he could never be as forgiving as her and play the pacifist, while at the same time, isn't following in his father's footsteps and becoming a war monger. After all, its not like he willingly went to war with Valm, since they were the ones who invaded to begin with. Yes, Chrom fights, but its what he fights for that counts. He strives for peace, while fighting those who would threaten it.

[Hamicsat]

You talk as if the bandits are as large as an army. Marth and what he had left of the Altean Army, along with a few others were able to take on the Pirates of Galder, along with the Soothsire bandits. How is that any different?

I wouldn't say that he downright doesn't grow at all. Chrom may have taken on Emm's ideals, but he admits that he could never be as forgiving as her and play the pacifist, while at the same time, isn't following in his father's footsteps and becoming a war monger. After all, its not like he willingly went to war with Valm, since they were the ones who invaded to begin with. Yes, Chrom fights, but its what he fights for that counts. He strives for peace, while fighting those who would threaten it.

"Bandits" are not a single, homogenous faction; there are hundreds, if not thousands of bandit camps scattered around Ylisse, and the Shepherds are supposed to keep them all in check. That's why it's a problem. They have no way of detecting the activities of their opponents, and they have no way of responding efficiently given their numbers. Even if they save one village, it hardly matters in the grand scheme of things; while their backs are turned, other criminal factions can act with impunity. This is inherently different from Marth's actions of FE3 because he cannot defend Altea, as it was occupied by the Durhua Empire in Book 1 and he had left Kain with an army to defend it in Book 2.

On the subject of character growth, you have a point; his ideals do evolve to an extent as he learns his father's history with Plegia (since he somehow didn't know before? I suppose that was the best way to present the information) and follows Emmeryn's examples. However, in terms of actions, he starts the game as a Shepherd, and he ends the game as a Shepherd. He's constantly running off to some backwater to slay some obscure evil, and simply assumes that everything will be fine on the homefront while he's gone. All this talk about "striving for peace" means nothing when he doesn't change how he acts to reflect his ideals.

[Sasori]

Perhaps I could be remembering things wrongs, but I though Chrom did't fully conquer Plegia. He just dethroned their leader.

Perhaps he wanted to avoid the same mistakes as his dad and did't want to try and control the nation because of that. Still the fact that he accepted Validar as ruler wasn't exactly the brightest idea in the world. You couldn't find a more obviously evil person if you tried.

Also I don't really remember seeing any dialogue about things going that badly after Walhart fell, aside from being crippled militarily.

As for the Marth/Ike rehash. I think that has too do with many of the lords being fairly generic and good.

[BrightBow]

Perhaps I could be remembering things wrongs, but I though Chrom did't fully conquer Plegia. He just dethroned their leader.

Perhaps he wanted to avoid the same mistakes as his dad and did't want to try and control the nation because of that. Still the fact that he accepted Validar as ruler wasn't exactly the brightest idea in the world. You couldn't find a more obviously evil person if you tried.

Also I don't really remember seeing any dialogue about things going that badly after Walhart fell, aside from being crippled militarily.

As for the Marth/Ike rehash. I think that has too do with many of the lords being fairly generic and good.

"Just" dethroned their leader? Leaders exist for a reason.

Without them, and the military being crushed and in disarray, there is effectively anarchy in the country. And in the world of Fire Emblem, that means bandits swarm out like cockroaches.

Chrom can't just plunder Plegia's treasures (yeah, those are the sort of the details that needed to be in the script...), go home without looking back and call himself a hero for it.

Also, Chrom clearly didn't "accept" Vallidar, given that he didn't know him.

Chrom: Let us pray this new king is more reasonable than their last.

Chrom: You serve the new king, then? This...Validar?

As for Valm, with Wallhart gone, the power that kept order on the continent is gone. The remaining powers are the dynasties. When Say'ri came to speak about them, she had this to say:

Say'ri: Greed. Jealousy. Sloth. All the old weaknesses of man. The dynasts all would have freedom, but on their own terms. Some refuse to take up arms unless their territory is threatened. Others thrive under the Conqueror's heel and will not join unless there is profit in it. Liberty is a fine word, aye, but not always enough to rouse men from foolishness.

That... doesn't sound like people who would work together to maintain peace..

That sounds more like people who will try to use the power vacuum to increase their influence. So the logical conclusion is another war.

Of course, despite Chrom's very fast return to Ylisse he may have organized something off-screen. However, there are a few problems with that.

1. Given the political situation in Valm, this kind of solution is extremely hard to imagine unless it is shown.

2. All characters introduced in Valm stay with Chrom. Hence there is so one left who could have taken are of things.

3. Chrom's track record by now. He left the Plegian's to be eaten by Grima and went home. Since he hasn't changed since then, there is no reason to assume he did things differently.

Edited February 1, 2014 by BrightBow

[Sasori]

Did't most of Plegia's army stay intact? I remember reading that only a small group of soldiers followed Gangrel after Emmeryin's death and I never really got the impression of all out war before that. Just Plegia sending small groups of forces and Chrom gathering a small army to take his sister back.

I was under the impression that Valider succeeded Gangrel pretty much immediately so I don't think there would be much anarchy to speak of.

As for Valm...yeah that does seem likely to happen, but its never mentioned in either the main story or the alternative time line.

I think most of the problems have to do with the story just moving too quickly for its own good. The focus on 4 different bad guys did't leave much time to expand on things or looking back.