Headcanon Thread

[Roivann]

I must be seeing things because pretty much every review for any game in the series makes note of FE's focus on characters and story as well as gameplay, for the genre at least.

SPOILER ALERT: spoilers ahead for The Hobbit and Spec Ops: The Line.

Looking at all characters (that is, characters from literature, film, etc.), video game characters will, with current technology, not have levels of depth comparable to those other media. This is due to the interactive nature of the medium of games. In a setting where it's possible for any character to die at any time, due to the player's actions, writers can't develop a storyline using all of those characters. This results in (usually) one of two things: either the game's storyline focuses on a small handful of "essential" characters (a la Awakening, with Chrom, Robin, Lucina, and Say'ri), or, the game's narrative is watered down a lot, with the plot only being advanced in cutscenes or dialogue in between gameplay (Call of Duty, Final Fantasy... a lot of games, actually). Realistically, characterization in games will only reach or surpass that of other media when the singularity (the point when artificial intelligence can match a human intelligence) happens. This will allow for characters to be "conscious", and react accordingly to whatever the player does, not just by choosing from a set of predetermined voice clips. Books and movies can handle character development better, as well. Take, for example, the story of The Hobbit. Let's compare it to a standard RPG. A major overarching plot of The Hobbit is Bilbo growing stronger to match his companions and conquer his fears and hesitations. However, this would not work at all as effectively in an interactive medium. Bilbo's allies consist of powerful dwarf warriors and a master wizard, among others. Would this have been originally told in the form of an RPG, the player would have been lacking in motivation to train Bilbo to become as strong as he needs to be. Sure, some players would help Bilbo, and be able to fully appreciate him as a character, but countless others would miss out on the effect of his character arc altogether. In FE terms, Bilbo is a typical trainee. He joins the party early with low stats, but he can grow to be one of the most powerful characters on the battlefield. I can't tell you, though, how many times I've had trainees die, or simply fall out of use in my main force. Continuing the metaphor, Gandalf and Thorin's company are Oifeys. They all join early and have higher stats than other characters, and continue to be strong throughout the game. With 14 Oifeys and 1 trainee, I'm fairly certain that most people would overlook Bilbo as a viable unit, due in part to his weakness at first compared to the rest of his party, and in part because of how it would be virtually as effective to play through using only Gandalf, Thorin, and Company. If the game is balanced for 14 Oifeys and one trainee, it would be almost equally balanced for just the 14 Oifeys. Because The Hobbit is written word (and film... well, and video game, but we're not looking at that right now), though, the story will always play out in the same way. Bilbo will always rescue the Dwarves from the spiders. He will always be the one to discover Smaug's weakness, and he will always fight in the Battle of the Five Armies. Thorin will always succumb to his wounds after the battle, and his last words will always be the same, and always be to Bilbo. This is where the divide between story and narrative must be drawn. You see, games have an advantage that movies and books can never hope to have: interactivity. That's why Chapter 10 of Fire Emblem Awakening is so powerful. The sound design, symbolism, and writing are good, but that's all they are on their own: just "good". But, take all that and put YOURSELF (at least, your Avatar, who is so self-inserty that it doesn't matter, but I don't want to get into the Avatar as a character right now) into the middle of it, and you've got the recipe for a powerful narrative. That's where Fire Emblem (and games in general) can really shine, in interactive storytelling. If a character dies in a movie or a TV show, you'd say "oh, man, why'd they have to kill off (x)? I loved that character!". But that's it. In a game (barring scripted events, which I personally think are a misuse of the medium), if a character you like dies, that's your fault. Some decision you made somewhere, or some lack of skill on your part, caused that character to die. The organic nature of this creates hundreds of possibilities for strong narrative moments. In Spec Ops: The Line, a game I love to cite for doing game storytelling exactly right, there's a point where you're told to choose whether to execute a man who stole food to feed his starving family, or the soldier who refused an order to kill the aforementioned thief. But those aren't your only options. Simply ignoring your command to kill one of them prompts two snipers to kill both men. Attacking the snipers gets both men, and your squad, promptly killed. I tried to shoot the ropes of both of them, and, to my surprise, it worked. I was able to cut the ropes, and even give my squad mates the order to kill the snipers in the distance. I eventually failed, and both men were executed and my squad attacked, but not before killing two of the snipers, so theoretically, it is possible to save both prisoners. Later on, a member of your squad is lynched by a mob, and your remaining buddy tells you to fire into the crowd. Still, you have options. One example I've seen work is firing up into the air, which will cause the mob to scatter.

TL;DR- characterization in video games has to be done through the experiences of the player, not through dialogue removed from gameplay, as other media are far superior at that. Sorry for writing an essay.

[Potato123]

^ So basically stories in games suck but are also much better then movies/books because self inserts? What?

[Refa]

Pretty sure that wasn't his point even though admittedly I just read the tl,dr;...

[Roivann]

^ So basically stories in games suck but are also much better then movies/books because self inserts? What?

Not exactly. If a game tells it's story through dialogue alone, it will fall short of other media. However, if it uses the medium to its fullest ability, as in, conveying narrative through dialogue, character interaction, and player experiences, it can far surpass film or literature.

[shadowofchaos]

My headcanon is that mostly everyone is an archer/sniper/bow knight/assassin/warrior/bride.

good god man

you've messed with the natural order

WORTH IT

ZM's obviously on Lunatic+.

Counter messes with the natural order. He must do the same.

[RJWalker]

I'm sorry but the very nature of Awakening's chapter progression system (and how the game is designed) breaks the flow and removes any emotional impact Chapter 10 could have had.

So you've completed Chapter 9. Emmeryn's sacrificed herself and your party is on the run. But the minute the chapter ends, you're dropped back into the world map. Not only are free to continue grinding, play any DLC, etc but another Paralogue in unlocked. Both previous games to feature World Maps forced you into chapters when dramatic tension required it.

Interactive story telling does not have to rely on self-inserts. And the self0insert in Awakening is one that you don't really have much control over. You decide their appearance and gender and that's pretty much it. Everything else that' customizeable about the Avatar is also applicable to the rest of the cast. Any of the decisions you make are pointless and the Avatar makes plans and strategies off-screen. The Basilio incident comes to mind. This whole plan that Avatar comes up with happens outside of the player's involvement despite the fact that avatar is intended as a self insert. Compare to something like Mass Effect where anything Shepard does is decided by the player.

[Roivann]

I'm sorry but the very nature of Awakening's chapter progression system (and how the game is designed) breaks the flow and removes any emotional impact Chapter 10 could have had.

So you've completed Chapter 9. Emmeryn's sacrificed herself and your party is on the run. But the minute the chapter ends, you're dropped back into the world map. Not only are free to continue grinding, play any DLC, etc but another Paralogue in unlocked. Both previous games to feature World Maps forced you into chapters when dramatic tension required it.

Interactive story telling does not have to rely on self-inserts. And the self0insert in Awakening is one that you don't really have much control over. You decide their appearance and gender and that's pretty much it. Everything else that' customizeable about the Avatar is also applicable to the rest of the cast. Any of the decisions you make are pointless and the Avatar makes plans and strategies off-screen. The Basilio incident comes to mind. This whole plan that Avatar comes up with happens outside of the player's involvement despite the fact that avatar is intended as a self insert. Compare to something like Mass Effect where anything Shepard does is decided by the player.

In regards to the chapter progression: I agree 100%. That break was a horrible design choice.

In regards to self-inserts/interactive storytelling: if I implied that self-inserts were required for interactive storytelling, I certainly didn't mean to. However, I do feel that they can facilitate interactive storytelling in a big way. Experiences that happen to a character established to be their own person with their own personality are usually (not quite a rule, but still) much less impactful on the player than experiences had by a character molded by the player to represent him/herself.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

WORTH IT

But Basilio wears Axe

[The Void]

This results in (usually) one of two things: either the game's storyline focuses on a small handful of "essential" characters (a la Awakening, with Chrom, Robin, Lucina, and Say'ri)

Even for Awakening Lucina is the least important Lord and Say'ri wasn't really important outside of the Valm arc. Which was a filler arc.

Edited February 14, 2014 by The Void

[Potato123]

In regards to the chapter progression: I agree 100%. That break was a horrible design choice.

In regards to self-inserts/interactive storytelling: if I implied that self-inserts were required for interactive storytelling, I certainly didn't mean to. However, I do feel that they can facilitate interactive storytelling in a big way. Experiences that happen to a character established to be their own person with their own personality are usually (not quite a rule, but still) much less impactful on the player than experiences had by a character molded by the player to represent him/herself.

But the avatar does a terrible job at being "you". You can't feel like him/her because s/he has her own terrible excuse for a personality, and you can't choose what to do or anything.

If anything, at that point you would think "Oh it sucks that Emmeryn died. Poor Chrom(as a character in the game, not as your real friend in real life or something)". You wouldn't think "oh no! poor emmeryn. she was such a nice lady to me. My nation, Ylisse will never be the same without her."

[Roivann]

But the avatar does a terrible job at being "you". You can't feel like him/her because s/he has her own terrible excuse for a personality, and you can't choose what to do or anything.

If anything, at that point you would think "Oh it sucks that Emmeryn died. Poor Chrom(as a character in the game, not as your real friend in real life or something)". You wouldn't think "oh no! poor emmeryn. she was such a nice lady to me. My nation, Ylisse will never be the same without her."

Admittedly, the Avatar is not the strongest for self-insertion. You've got me on that one.

[Potato123]

I mean self-insets in general.

[RJWalker]

Self-inserts are not inherently bad. I just think they don't have any place in a linear storyline. They fit in best with Western RPGs with dialogue trees, dating sims, etc where they don't seem as terrible.

[NoNameAtAll]

Epic does not take into account the actual quality.

And really, I've only seen this arguement that "FE always had bad characters and story" whenever someone criticizes Awakening's (and strangely enough, FE7's) story and characters. Here, and on other forums.

Actually, that's been my view for all of them. Even the Jugdral games, much as I love them, have the same issues with characters being rather cut and dry.

It's ultimately understandable though. There are tons of characters per Fire Emblem game, so trying to make overarching developments that are actually full of intrigue rather than being predictable is pretty difficult.

Also, I love how you're making it sound like I'm defending Awakening even though I just said that I agree that the character depth is shit.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Tiz

[Airship Canon]

Another headcanon:

The reason why it says "Wife" on Chrom!Inigo's page, and "Companion" on Olivia!Lucina!Morgan's is simply because Inigo is a lech and Morgan knows it.So while he sees Morgan to be his wife, she isn't that dedicated to him, despite being fiances or perhaps actually wed. She's close to him (and actually loves him) though.

[No that doesn't answer for any other occurrence of that [Read: Any "Companion" trigger that involves Morgan such as Owain/Emm!Morgan (which I don't believe, because I've done it- twice, and didn't get the glitch nor "Companions", at all.)]]

[Czar_Yoshi]

Not exactly. If a game tells it's story through dialogue alone, it will fall short of other media. However, if it uses the medium to its fullest ability, as in, conveying narrative through dialogue, character interaction, and player experiences, it can far surpass film or literature.

Alas, Awakening happens to be a game in which every single instance of player interaction (barring supports) results in a few changed lines at best, and never alters the story/gameplay in any significant manner. Which is a shame, because the series has a strong precedent (particularly in the GBA FEs) for branching paths.

[The Void]

Having an AFGNCAAP player character doesn't work for games where the player character is supposed to be the main character and the game isn't a sandbox game, platformer, etc. There are at least 3 ways to have an AFGNCAAP:

1. Have an antagonist or another NPC drive the game's plot.

2. Have the player's allies and/or party members do the moving of the story direction with the player providing a managerial role, a "behind the scenes" authority or an "unsung hero".

3. Set it up where the character looks ambiguous, but is actually a character with NPCs a set home, etc.

Edited February 16, 2014 by The Void

[tuvarkz]

That's an unnecessary large acronym. Self-insert is easier to memorize.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Does it always have to be "more natural" in the context of FE 100% of the time? If we were going to say "more natural" there's more ammo for other people for Chrom, especially Sully.

By your logic, the *ONLY* ones that can be Azure/Inigo's father is Chrom or Male MU.

だから、「ノットディスシットアゲン」と言ったんだ。

Just like how Ike x Elincia in FE10 is pretty much stretching it.

If you look at this thread carefully, half the posts are just screwing around.

The difference is, this is a game.

"Suspension of disbelief" is a thing. Development must be believable for the reader/player of the work. And how does that happen? What you see on screen. Considering how the game's emphasis is on character development in supports... a "time skip" with a black screen, a slightly changed out of nowhere S support confession, and Lissa lampshading it isn't on the level of development for the other characters.

When you compare the 2 months of real life with the "2 years" that happened in game that only transpired on a black screen, the player is left with "wut" and the developers saying "we can do what we want".

For all you know, Chrom could have married Lissa.

Justifying it with life in which you know development actually transpires and a game where you have to *SHOW* what happens is moot. She shares *ONE* dialogue with Chrom, and that's her recruitment conversation the chapter before.

I am obviously biased here, but when all you hear about justifying Chrom and Olivia is their son mentioning a brand on the eye opposite to Lucina as well as it is "more fitting" for Inigo's father to mention Lucina when it's Chrom... it's less convincing than even the BS I hear for Chrom x FeMU.

I have more respect for people that say "I just want Inigo to be a prince *shrug*".

The what?

Even if I don't know what it is, I honestly that has way more development and approval than what I stated above.

Besides, I'm getting tired of being the waifu lord anyways.

"Everything is canon" honestly sounds like a cop-out in regards to stepping on anyone's toes.

They did go the "nothing is canon" route in the Drama CDs, because some scenarios there simply aren't possible in regards to having only one MU.

If we go the "Everything is canon within the game's bounds", are the Drama CDs just throw away material? Same with the sidestories in the manga that are also "official"?

...I just want to petition banning "canon" or "headcanon" discussions from the forums.

This is getting ridiculous with every other thread in the Awakening forum having waifu/husbando/children justifications.

No matter how much you try to separate "headcanon" when it comes to character behaviors in a thread, it will eventually devolve into pairings pairings pairings pairings.

Just freaking say "I like it. That's it." I have more respect for people with that than people that look for justifications for their pairs and say "this makes more sense".

[/hipster]

I didn't have to deal with this crap reading the 2ch boards regarding Awakening... pairing discussions were strictly gameplay related.

Sweet fuck. Nuts, Rey, get off of people's nuts, ok? Please? I think you took a lot of that stuff a bit too personally. "YER NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE STUPID HEADCANONS AND JUSTIFY THEM WITH ROUND ABOUT SHIT!" Dude, chillax. My Chrom Pairing Headcanon is actually Olivia too. Deal with it.

[Anacybele]

I'm gonna have to agree with Florina on this one. You DO take things like this a bit too seriously sometimes, Rey/Shadowofchaos/whatever I'm supposed to call you now. xP

Then again, I shouldn't be talking, because I can be the same on occasion. >_<

[Loki Laufeyson]

To be fair, Chrom/Maribelle is best in my opinion for story reasons, but Olivia!Lucina is so broken, shes always my headcanon wife for Chrom. (Sumia rather bed Frederick for that sweet sweet support bonus or Henry because why not.)

[Sunwoo]

Florina, why the hell did you have to bring that back up when the situation had cooled off THREE DAYS AGO?

[Loki Laufeyson]

Florina, why the hell did you have to bring that back up when the situation had cooled off THREE DAYS AGO?

Catching up and seeing that nonsense, im not gonna let it sit. Sometimes, people need to be reminded how silly they are.

[Sunwoo]

And sometimes bringing up things that have been already resolved is just going to cause more stupidity to arise. If you'd called him out when it happened, it's one thing. But to bring it up again when the flames had settled days ago is another. ;/

[Loki Laufeyson]

So its ok to let Rey get away with jumping on everyone's nuts just cuz it happened a little bit ago? No. Nope. Nope. Nope.