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FE6 Sword of Seals Rebirth (?)


Dunal
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So... I'm currently undergoing/planning for a massive project and I thought I'd might as well announce it.

I'm working on a complete reboot for FE6 for FEXP (although I'm 99% sure I'll move the project onto XNA when that's released -- if only for coding purposes). It's in very early stages still but I'll list everything I'm planning to do with it:

- A complete re-balance of well... everything. Mostly taking some cues from this as well as FE7x (since that's where XP and XNA are based off of in terms of primary mechanics).

- Lots of new maps/chapters, including a prologue akin to FE11 or 12 (Which includes chapters from Guinevere's perspective). I'll also be building off FE6's branching sections also, so you'll be seeing more of those.

- Lilina and Guinevere are now Lords with their own custom classes. Lilina is essentially a fire mage at tier 1, promoting into a magic wielding Peg Knight in tier 2 (Skymage Lord? Falco Lord? Ascended Lord? Eh). Guinevere is a staff and bow user at tier 1, promoting into a mounted Valkyrie-esque class in Tier 2. That's all still in flux though, but you get the idea.

- Lilina mode. Complete with extra maps, completely different enemies units/placement etc... So everything you know and love from Hector Mode.

- A complete redo of many of the maps in FE6. Some of them are horribly designed (especially the gaiden maps... ugh). Mostly the maps would be toned down in size and have different objectives. Many maps would become defend / survive / rout etc...

- New player units, mostly characters from FE7. It could also be interesting to bring back characters from 7x (with context and permission etc etc....). Obvious entries would be Lyn, Pent (As the new Archsage), Isadora, Vaida. Renault would be a nice addition too. Anyone who's likely to be plot relevant (Vaida is clearly committed to Zephiel for instance). And then possibly a few entries for fanservice (Serra to be Yodel's successor for the Elimine church? Bwaha).

- A complete rewrite of the story and dialogue. It'll mostly follow the canon, but likely with changes here and there. Things such as Erik joining you. Hector can survive. Lyn exists. Roy has some personality etc... Would love to gather some passionate writers for this. More continuity from FE7 (And Elibian Knights (?)) would obviously be good.

- New mechanics from XNA and/or 7x, as well as new additions of my own. I'm assuming many are exclusive to 7x though, including classes and the like. But class skills are an obvious addition. Some mechanics from FE13 can be experimented with too. A more limited version of re-class can be tempting.

- Lots of new art assets will need to be made too of course. Going to need willing artists + commissions.

Of course, I still have some things on my plate for the time being, but I'd thought I'd create this thread now to gather further ideas or to see if some people are interested in contributing. A huge project like this will obviously take a very long time, so either way -- now's a good time as ever to create some discussion.

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Wow a lot of people are/looking into updating FE6. Not that I'm complaining.

For Lilina's promoted class, I'd say shorten 'Skymage Lord' to just 'Sky Lord'. Keep in mind though, having a Flyer as your seizer can be very broken. There's a reason it has yet to happen. I'm going back and forth on making Roy a peggie in the inheritance patch.

I can probably help with scriptwriting, but I have a lot on my plate too.

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Chances are in Roy Mode, she can't seize (Based on when the first Heaven Seal is received -- it's best to avoid that). While on her own mode, map/enemy tweaks can be made to be based around her movement, if need be. However, I doubt it makes much of a difference compared to say, simply using another flyer to ferry her around. And from a speedrunner's perspective it only saves what, a turn?

Yeah, there's a great number of romhacks being made for FE6 -- some great ones too. For this though I'm going the extra mile to create a standalone game. So hopefully it can be separated from the romhacks being made. Chances are that people will have a lot of time to enjoy those long before this is finished.

Edited by DLuna
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Chances are in Roy Mode, she can't seize (Based on when the first Heaven Seal is received -- it's best to avoid that). While on her own mode, map/enemy tweaks can be made to be based around her movement, if need be. However, I doubt it makes much of a difference compared to say, simply using another flyer to ferry her around. And from a speedrunner's perspective it only saves what, a turn?

Yeah, there's a great number of romhacks being made for FE6 -- some great ones too. For this though I'm going the extra mile to create a standalone game. So hopefully it can be separated from the romhacks being made. Chances are that people will have a lot of time to enjoy those long before this is finished.

I meant in context of her mode, so I suppose that could work. Elincia is the closest thing to a Flyer lord we have, and she has no seize potential, so I always assumed Flyerskip was the main reason. Lilina will get to seize faster than Roy will, though, and mage Flyers proved very broken in FE13 *cough, cough DLC MICAIAH cough*

Oh, well, I actually meant how a lot of people are looking into overall remaking/polishing it, even if it isn't even a FE6 hack.

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Why does Lilina get a pegasus?

A) She is the Shiida of FE6.

B) Even through canon, her mother is most likely to be either Florina or Farina.

C) Mage pegasi seems unique enough to add as a lord-central class.

And why does Guinivere stop using magic

Too much overlap with Lilina. And I'm not sure it's even specifically mentioned why/how she's associated with magic. Is it mentioned in FE7? As far as I'm concerned, she just shows up in a Trial Map as a Sage -- I assume because the model matches the best with her character design, and there's no other pre-promote Sage. Either way, giving her a unique class is the better solution. She learns Light magic after promotion anyway -- so it's still there. There most likely will not be a STR/MAG split, but her stat scaling is a bit different from other units... In any case, a primary staff/bow lord is a concept not really explored. So that's something fun to do.

Basically, keeping Lilina and Guinivere as just... foot mages doesn't really seem too appealing. You might as well make them that same class at that point. And creating custom models/animations is the motivation here.

And the fan continuity seems kinda silly to add to a canon remake?

As for Fan continuity, (from other fan-hacks) a lot of them respect the canon enough to be based off of. This project itself is still a fangame, so their basis for continuity as just as respectful as my own. Besides, the fangames I mentioned actually seem to have interlocking continuity. So I think it's ideal to follow on from that. It's a nice touch.

As for general continuity:

It's going to be 'canon' as far as the plot/story tends to follow. Guinevere's contribution to the plot is the exact same (right down to her backstory being shown in the prologue). Player units story/background remain the same (as far as they can be). Just with some exceptions for convenience. Lyn seems to be Sue's canon mother -- but back when FE6 was made, she wasn't acknowledged to exist. But having knowing that connection now -- it seems a bit daft she wouldn't show up at some point. It's just creating consistency with FE7 that exists now.

Also, Vaida. Unless she's dead -- It's extremely hard to believe she wouldn't show up at all. Isadora (or Harken) wouldn't seem like someone who would retire when she's younger than Marcus. And Pent -- being quite possibly the most powerful sorcerer in Elibe (assuming because he was taught by Athos) is really going to be doing nothing when his children are being involved? Etc etc...

FE6 clearly wasn't made with foreshadowing in mind for IS. Unlike FE9.

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A) She is the Shiida of FE6.

B) Even through canon, her mother is most likely to be either Florina or Farina.

C) Mage pegasi seems unique enough to add as a lord-central class.

Too much overlap with Lilina. And I'm not sure it's even specifically mentioned why/how she's associated with magic. Is it mentioned in FE7? As far as I'm concerned, she just shows up in a Trial Map as a Sage -- I assume because the model matches the best with her character design, and there's no other pre-promote Sage. Either way, giving her a unique class is the better solution. She learns Light magic after promotion anyway -- so it's still there. There most likely will not be a STR/MAG split, but her stat scaling is a bit different from other units... In any case, a primary staff/bow lord is a concept not really explored. So that's something fun to do.

Basically, keeping Lilina and Guinivere as just... foot mages doesn't really seem too appealing. You might as well make them that same class at that point. And creating custom models/animations is the motivation here.

As for Fan continuity, (from other fan-hacks) a lot of them respect the canon enough to be based off of. This project itself is still a fangame, so their basis for continuity as just as respectful as my own. Besides, the fangames I mentioned actually seem to have interlocking continuity. So I think it's ideal to follow on from that. It's a nice touch.

As for general continuity:

It's going to be 'canon' as far as the plot/story tends to follow. Guinevere's contribution to the plot is the exact same (right down to her backstory being shown in the prologue). Player units story/background remain the same (as far as they can be). Just with some exceptions for convenience. Lyn seems to be Sue's canon mother -- but back when FE6 was made, she wasn't acknowledged to exist. But having knowing that connection now -- it seems a bit daft she wouldn't show up at some point. It's just creating consistency with FE7 that exists now.

Also, Vaida. Unless she's dead -- It's extremely hard to believe she wouldn't show up at all. Isadora (or Harken) wouldn't seem like someone who would retire when she's younger than Marcus. And Pent -- being quite possibly the most powerful sorcerer in Elibe (assuming because he was taught by Athos) is really going to be doing nothing when his children are being involved? Etc etc...

FE6 clearly wasn't made with foreshadowing in mind for IS. Unlike FE9.

In response to the first: I thought that was Shanna. Florina I'll give you, but Farina has that 0+1 support with Hector that makes me REALLY doubt Farina/Hector as canon. I normally ship Hector/Lyn and biased, but really... And mage pegasi were in FE13 as a non-lord class. Lord classes aren't even always 'unique' gameplaywise. Lyn is basically a Swordmaster with Bows and no crit boost, FE9!Ike is basically a mercenary by another name, Eliwood and Ephraim are Paladins with no axe/sword, etc.

Second: Why would that 'overlap' even matter? FE7 had two sword weilding lords, but no lance ones. All three FE13 lords (counting Lucina) use swords. Sigurd and Seliph are the same class once Seliph promotes, period! IMO, two magic lords would be cool.

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I'd recommend rethinking what balance means, I recall trying your previous project and being disappointed. It might be wise to ensure that what you want to do is actually possible, a lot of it seems rather ambitious. You're also going to be at odds with some people regarding canon and fitting in the other characters.

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In response to the first: I thought that was Shanna.

In terms of story/background, Lilina is essentially Shiida, right down to being a 'childhood friend'. Shanna/Thany's only relation is through class.

Florina I'll give you, but Farina has that 0+1 support with Hector that makes me REALLY doubt Farina/Hector as canon.

Farina/Hector is just as plausible -- They have endgame art that supports it. Heck, so does Lyn/Hector, but it just makes sense for Lyn to be associated elsewhere. Florina will likely end up being the one. There's really nothing to direct something as 'canon', it's whatever is most convenient to the plot. So either one would work fine.

And mage pegasi were in FE13 as a non-lord class.

They're unique as far as GBA goes. And honestly, making them a generic class from the get-go wasn't exactly expected.

Lord classes aren't even always 'unique' gameplaywise. Lyn is basically a Swordmaster with Bows and no crit boost, FE9!Ike is basically a mercenary by another name, Eliwood and Ephraim are Paladins with no axe/sword, etc.

But that doesn't mean they can't be unique. And if there's any player units that deserve to have unique classes + skills, it would be the lords or any of the main cast. Weapon types aren't the only factor here if course. Skills exist too now. Guinivere has a skill that allows Bows/Staves/Magic to scale in power with the same stats. That makes for an interesting class.

Second: Why would that 'overlap' even matter? FE7 had two sword weilding lords, but no lance ones. All three FE13 lords (counting Lucina) use swords. Sigurd and Seliph are the same class once Seliph promotes, period! IMO, two magic lords would be cool.

Because overlap can't really be justified or superior, even if IS has done it. Swords are by far the most used weapon among the lords, so that skews things a lot (They're favored way to heavily by IS as far as I'm concerned, but that doesn't mean it's the correct thing to do).

I just feel no overlap > having overlap. It allows weapon availability to be distributed better. Allows the usages of each main lord to be varied regardless of stats. Guinevere could have light magic at tier 1 for instance, but her usage wouldn't really differ from Lilina.

Also, in context to Guinevere's availability and skills, her current setup feels more justified. Magic is generally more inherently powerful than other weapon types, so you have to weight it against other factors. Bow lock early on allows her skills/stats etc... to allow a lot more possibilities. She's unique to say the least.

I'd recommend rethinking what balance means, I recall trying your previous project and being disappointed. It might be wise to ensure that what you want to do is actually possible, a lot of it seems rather ambitious. You're also going to be at odds with some people regarding canon and fitting in the other characters.

A lot of what I want to do to entirely possible in FEXP. In XNA it can only become easier. That isn't really a problem.

As far as ambition goes, I've done other projects within the same scope (Not FE related). Programming is not a problem for me at all.

For balance, a lot of it is perspective. For me, making sure the entire cast of characters are relatively useful, while still making the game challenging, is what is aimed for. Perhaps the game could be too difficult, and perhaps some units could be made even better, but the goal is simply flexibility for the player. Balance doesn't mean everything should be the same/equal -- but varied enough and being useful. Unique skills/classes can add to this.

Doesn't mean the Romhack was perfect at all, but it set the goal I had for it, even just loosely. The player could use anyone they want to a good degree, or any weapon type, while still challenging themselves. Granted, the hack was based around begin a 'maniac/lunatic' styled mode, so difficulty-wise it was skewed from that angle (as was balance, so some prepromotes has to be a tad over-buffed to compensate for it, otherwise you have a FE12 issue where they're all a bit pants).

Edited by DLuna
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