AMCC4728 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Mega khan was a problem and needed to go. It is still one of the best doubles pokemon but there are more ways to counter it there. Regarding swagger, I think a complex ban such as no swagger+prankster would have been better. I can see the reasons for the ban but to me they don't justify one, mostly because without prankster any scarfer can shut it out. That said I don't mind that it is gone as I don't use it but I still don't think the full on ban was necessary. Edited May 13, 2014 by Austin LePurple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Lum Berry Outrage users laugh at Swagger pretty hard, though Klefki could always be countered by Earthquake. Edited May 13, 2014 by Woodshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Lum Berry Outrage users laugh at Swagger pretty hard, though Klefki could always be countered by Earthquake. ...And if they go for Thunder Wave instead...? (Considering most Swagplay users also pack T-Wave) Regarding swagger, I think a complex ban such as no swagger+prankster would have been better. I can see the reasons for the ban but to me they don't justify one, mostly because without prankster any scarfer can shut it out. That said I don't mind that it is gone as I don't use it but I still don't think the full on ban was necessary. Needing a Choice Scarf means my options are limited, though. And while it is true that most notable Swagger users have it backed by Prankster and Foul Play... that's not to say that Swagger alone can't be devastating, because it can. Of course, as stated above, it's not just the confusion you have to worry about - it's also the paralysis, Protect, and Substitute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 If Kanga is running Crunch it has no reliable priority, which can be taken advantage of. There are ways around most Kanga sets, but having to counter them all IS admittedly overcentralizing. mkhans preferred to run both sucker punch and crunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) mkhans preferred to run both sucker punch and crunch. Then they're just gonna fail against things like Mawile and Klefki (assuming PUPunch), or Skarmory (if EQ) aren't they? Anyway if you guys are still doing Showdown or whatever, I'll get in on that Imma get online, you can find me at same name as here Edited May 14, 2014 by BANRYU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Then they're just gonna fail against things like Mawile and Klefki (assuming PUPunch), or Skarmory (if EQ) aren't they? No. +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 202-240 (63.5 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 153-180 (45.8 - 53.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery This is what she's doing with A RESISTED HIT. And in case you think Skarmory's a good answer to Mega Kanga because of these calcs... guess what happens if Stealth Rock is in play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Dammit levant, you beat me to it. Also lets not forget that Steel does not resist dark anymore so... +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 160-190 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 39.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and that comes with 2 rolls on potential defence drop with 20% change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Allright fair enough I got nothin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Nah, I don't do Showdown often, due to my limited computer time. I prefer battling in X/Y. I'm itching to see how my newly acquired Guts Flareon will perform, though. Despite its lower base Speed, it's better than Guts Luxray when it comes to damage output, and it has a Speed boosting move (Flame Charge) to help it out...if it survives, of course. But hey, Protect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I wouldn't recommend setting up with a Guts Flareon, considering that Toxic Orb sets a time limit on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCC4728 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Needing a Choice Scarf means my options are limited, though. And while it is true that most notable Swagger users have it backed by Prankster and Foul Play... that's not to say that Swagger alone can't be devastating, because it can. Of course, as stated above, it's not just the confusion you have to worry about - it's also the paralysis, Protect, and Substitute. Having a scarfer is usually considered a good idea anyway as it allows easy revenge kills. Entry hazards also limit options by making defog/rapid spin nearly mandatory, especially if you run pokemon weak to it. The latter problems are also solved by a scarf, as long as they have no residual damage on you. IMO prankster is what makes swagger sets broken.(Although ditto is also a hassle if they get a swagger off) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Bulky RestTalk Flareon with Flare Blitz and Facade seems like the way to go to me, even with its limited coverage. Flareon can be a surprisingly potent special tank, actually. A speedy set with Flame Charge could probably work well too, though. Edited May 14, 2014 by BANRYU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 I wouldn't recommend setting up with a Guts Flareon, considering that Toxic Orb sets a time limit on it. It's not too bad. As long as it does its job well. Bulky RestTalk Flareon with Flare Blitz and Facade seems like the way to go to me, even with its limited coverage. Flareon can be a surprisingly potent special tank, actually. A speedy set with Flame Charge could probably work well too, though. Flareon really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Sure, its moveset sucks terribly, and even with the addition of Flare Blitz, it's still rather lacking, but at least it has an Attack and Special Defense stat to take advantage of, a workable Special Attack stat, and a Speed stat that can be fixed via Flame Charge. If only it got Play Rough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) You're preachin' to the choir, friendo. I'm rather fond of Bulky Restalk myself, though it typically only works better in the lower tiers. Say I should take a look at how the tiers are being divided these days, I need to get myself a couple good low-tier teams. Hope Adaptability Dragalge becomes a thing soon. T3T Is Dragalge any good without it, what do you guys think? Edited May 14, 2014 by BANRYU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm a bit passionate when it comes to discussion about my favorite Eeveelution, haha. I might have to try bulky RestTalk Flareon. Dragalge is cool. Poison/Dragon is a very interesting dual type, and its defenses are pretty fantastic, and its Special Attack is good, too. Haven't seen much of it, though, but Adaptability would be nice for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Dragalge's physical defense really isn't that good; it's passable at best if you heavily EV it, but otherwise it's usually best not to bother and just let him be a special tank. Yeah, Specs Adaptability Dragalge with like Draco Meteor, Sludge Wave, and whatever filler moves seems like his best set (when you ignore the fact that Adaptability is unreleased... lol...) Otherwise I think most people use him as a Toxic Spiker/absorber, although there are plenty of better candidates for that than him... But even though he's not that strong I really like him. =3= He has a really weird/cool typing and a neat design haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 How would you guys rate Delphox? It has great Special Attack and good Special Defense/Speed, and Psyshock access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algae Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) I was under the impression that it has a lot of trouble standing out. Edited May 16, 2014 by Alg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Delphox is okay I guess If you can keep it from getting wrekt by physical attackers due to crap defenses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esme Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Frail, bad defensive typing, barren movepool... Yeah, I don't think Delphox has a lot going for it aside from generally being a decent special attacker that can utilize Power Herb + Magician shenanigans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) i use this flareon: toxic orb guts adamant flame charge facade flare blitz superpower it hits like a freight train but it 2 hit kos itself from recoil damage.... i also ran life orb with quick attack for priority before for decently powered priority. i forget what the ev spread was, but it was max attack with just enough speed to outrun jolly garchomp after a flame charge and dumped the rest into hp. delphox would be good if it had a better movepool and perhaps a bit more power, so she's basically a kadabra alakazam wannabe Edited May 16, 2014 by Comet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 So Comet and I had a battle earlier. Guts Flareon, as expected was pretty dangerous, and even got two Flame Charges to boost its Speed insanely. But then Mega Lucario promptly wrecked my team. Should've used my Talonflame over Sceptile. >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I would just like to say that Delphox's signature move + Screen(s) + WilloWisp can make it a decent specialy tank in some instances. I don't recall the set, but someone on Smogon posted something interesting with Magical Fire and some other stuff that seemed interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystle Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Unfortunately Delphox's base stats make it a bit frail to try a tank set since it doesn't really get recovery. :c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 Might try out Mandibuzz on a team. I heard good things about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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