Multiple Anima Ranks

[Jotari]

Tome ranks are kind of inconsistent in Fire Emblem. Sometimes one tome rank encompasses all magic, some times it's split into light, dark and anima and sometimes its further split into light, dark, fire, thunder and wind. I'm going to ask about a comparison between the latter two. Should anima be split into separate thunder, wind and fire? Does that just make an unnecessary amount of weapon ranks to train with no real benefit? Or do you think it makes magic more diverse by having thunder mages and fire mages as classes?

[Anacybele]

I liked how Tellius split it up into fire, thunder, wind, light, and dark. It made the most sense to me. Fire magic is not the same as thunder or wind, so it makes sense that one mage would be more proficient with one of these than the other and have to gain skill with the others separately.

[X-Naut]

I wouldn't mind Anima being split, but I want there to be a difference between the magic types. It needs to be more than just generic E rank, D rank, siege tome, etc. At least give them all unique tomes that aren't Prf weapons, if you can't bother to give them key differences they might as well be merged. I'd also like to see Anima tomes that use two weapon ranks.

[Icon of Sin]

Magic needs to be rethrought if the elements should be separate. There's barely any difference in Awakening other than Wind is weak but accurate, Thunder is strong but prone to miss and Fire is the middle ground. Perhaps Wind should be about always attacking twice with very weak power, Thunder should be about greater ange and Fire greater power, or they should have their own special effects. Dark magic already has a lot of oddities that make it stand out most of the time, so why not being able to summon a wall of flame or have a shield of electricity.

You could also rethink magic as AoE spells only that can only be cast a few times per map, while giving Mages the ability to use knives and staves to fight. Priests should have maces and staves instead.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Woodshooter

[bookofholsety]

i'm very fond of the full magical split only insofar as story/universe sort of flavouring, but in terms of gameplay it needs some serious retooling to justify itself as anything more than a nuisance, especially the anima trinity. dark magic near-universally does a solid job of giving itself a unique presence with its myriad special effects, and it's pretty sad that the best any other magic type can do in this respect, offering effective damage, is really inconsistently applied. the potential for diversity is there as others have said; intsys just adamantly refuses to see it

the most frustrating implementation by far is fe9 (and to a lesser extent fe5), where the three separate anima ranks are all found only on the same two classes with no attempt at elementally-split classes like 4 or 10, and thus serve literally no practical role beyond pure frustration when it comes to weapon rank grinding (exhibit a: fe5's siege tomes). fe13 is an inverse sort of bad in this respect: with just a single tome rank, why exactly am i supposed to care about this absolutely preposterous number of standard anima spells which are barely distinguishable from each other?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I liked how Tellius split it up into fire, thunder, wind, light, and dark.

What she said + returning of magic triangle + weapon level system of FE13.

In FE10 arcfire and arcwind are weapon level B and arcthunder for unknown reason level A. It has to be adjusted.

[Icon of Sin]

FE10 had weird stuff like that, such as Male Swordmasters having an SS cap on their weapon rank, likely traded with the golden Swordmasters since they have an S cap I believe. Had Alondite not been locked to the Black Knight all this time, Zihark and possibly Edward could've easily been able to use it starting 1-E.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Woodshooter

[WIRE Shut]

In awakening there is no reason to use any magic other than the thunder magic line, Celica's gale and the dark magic tomes, wind magic's niche is really only useful against wyverns because thunder magic does about the same damage against pegasus, and even then it doesn't matter because wyverns have bad res, fe9 was horrible with the whole anima trinity deal as well, mages became nerfed as hell and it took ages for them to get up a weapon rank so you kind of where forced to use 3 sages with you wanted to be able to use all the tomes, either way if it was implemented like fe10 I wouldn't have a problem with it returning

[Jotari]

For what I could see too, unless you were attacking flying creatures Thunder magic was just plain superior in FE9. I don't think the other two even had an S ranked weapon. I also think all three types were missing an A ranked weapon.

[WIRE Shut]

Yeah fe9 would be much better without the magic nerf, even magic users are nerfed growth and base wise but that's another story, the only magic user I could count on was Rhys most of the time as Tormod became a healbot after promotion

Edit: I think they wanted us to use Ilyana as thunder magic is the only one with a S rank weapon

Edited May 11, 2014 by Hoenn

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

FE10 had weird stuff like that, such as Male Swordmasters having an SS cap on their weapon rank, likely traded with the golden Swordmasters since they have an S cap I believe. Had Alondite not been locked to the Black Knight all this time, Zihark and possibly Edward could've easily been able to use it starting 1-E.

Yes, the weapon level system of FE9 and FE10 is inconsequent in many points. Stteel axes are weapon level E, while steel swordes and lances are level D.

For what I could see too, unless you were attacking flying creatures Thunder magic was just plain superior in FE9. I don't think the other two even had an S ranked weapon. I also think all three types were missing an A ranked weapon.

Yes, only thunder magic (rexbolt) has S rank, but all anima magic types have A rank tome.

Edited May 11, 2014 by MisterIceTeaPeach

[Anacybele]

Mages nerfed in PoR? I don't know, Soren's always a beast when I train him. That's the only reason I use him, actually. :P

I also agree that the two trinities of magic need to return. Thunder > Fire > Wind > Thunder and Light > Dark > Anima > Light are what they were, I believe.

[Jotari]

Yes, the weapon level system of FE9 and FE10 is inconsequent in many points. Steel lances and steel axes are weapon level E, while steel swordes are level D.

Anima magic have A rank weapon, only thunder magic (rexbolt) has S rank.

I remember one of the ranks is useless. Might be B since siege tomes are C and the powerful Tornado etc tomes are A.

[Icon of Sin]

Yes, the weapon level system of FE9 and FE10 is inconsequent in many points. Steel lances and steel axes are weapon level E, while steel swordes are level D.

Anima magic have A rank weapon, only thunder magic (rexbolt) has S rank.

Poison Lance was E, not Steel.

The other two had glitchy animations, especially Rexflame. They're unused but they exist.

Mages nerfed in PoR? I don't know, Soren's always a beast when I train him. That's the only reason I use him, actually. :P

In a game where mounted units are so dominant, the only one who can catch up to them on maps is Tormod, if you pour your bonus experience on him of course.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Mages nerfed in PoR? I don't know, Soren's always a beast when I train him. That's the only reason I use him, actually. :P

I also agree that the two trinities of magic need to return. Thunder > Fire > Wind > Thunder and Light > Dark > Anima > Light are what they were, I believe.

Yeah fe9 would be much better without the magic nerf, even magic users are nerfed growth and base wise but that's another story, the only magic user I could count on was Rhys most of the time as Tormod became a healbot after promotion

Edit: I think they wanted us to use Ilyana as thunder magic is the only one with a S rank weapon

Magics are not nerfed in general in FE9. Their only problem is the speed penality caused by poor strength. F. E. Soren's strength growth is 5%, so loses many points in speed, if he uses thunder and fire magic.

I remember one of the ranks is useless. Might be B since siege tomes are C and the powerful Tornado etc tomes are A.

Like I said in a previous comment, the weapon level system in FE9 and 10 is strange.

Poison Lance was E, not Steel.

The other two had glitchy animations, especially Rexflame. They're unused but they exist.

In a game where mounted units are so dominant, the only one who can catch up to them on maps is Tormod, if you pour your bonus experience on him of course.

Yeah my bad. I mixed them with javelins.

Edited May 11, 2014 by MisterIceTeaPeach

[Genuine Uncertainty]

Yeah magic in general needs some...unique-ness. Dark magic has plenty of variety. I like light magic having high crit rates but anima needs something to distinguish it.

[Genuine Uncertainty]

Magics are not nerfed in general in FE9. Their only problem is the speed penality caused by poor strength. F. E. Soren's strength growth is 5%, so loses many points in speed, if he uses thunder and fire magic.

Like I said in a previous comment, the weapon level system in FE9 and 10 is weird.

Yeah my bad. I mixed them with javelins.

Mages are so nerfed in FE9. Tomes overall have lower might than physical weapons. Wind tome has 2 might in FE9 and Light(ning) has 1. WTF is that if not a serious nerf to mages. Mages have been getting screwed since FE4.

[X-Naut]

There's also the -1 move on other foot classes that causes them to lag behind the pack.

[Anacybele]

Oh, I see. Yeah, that speed loss thing is definitely an issue.

[Peppy]

i once had an idea in my mind that fire magic would be effective against horseback units. So at least all three types of anima are effective against something (Wind -> Flying, Thunder -> Wyvern Riders, Fire -> Horses).

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Mages are so nerfed in FE9. Tomes overall have lower might than physical weapons. Wind tome has 2 might in FE9 and Light(ning) has 1. WTF is that if not a serious nerf to mages. Mages have been getting screwed since FE4.

Therefore mages have much higher magic cap than strength cap of most other physical classes and the enemies except mages have lower resistance than defense, so it is equalized.

[Beelzebub]

They should only split up the anima magic if it's locked to the class like in FE4. Otherwise the schools become too diluted with identical spells, and it becomes too difficult for someone to grow each element simultaneously. Either give each element a niche, or put them into a fairly linear power progression like in the GBA games.

[Icon of Sin]

Therefore mages have much higher magic cap than strength cap of most other physical classes and the enemies except mages have lower resistance than defense, so it is equalized.

Except you can forge Silver Weapons, while magic is restricted to its weakest form, so the difference gets even bigger. Also consider the bases before looking at the caps. Soren starts with 8 might while Boyd already has 15, three chapters before Soren even joins.

[cyron]

I wouldn't mind Anima being split, but I want there to be a difference between the magic types. It needs to be more than just generic E rank, D rank, siege tome, etc. At least give them all unique tomes that aren't Prf weapons, if you can't bother to give them key differences they might as well be merged. I'd also like to see Anima tomes that use two weapon ranks.

Magic needs to be rethrought if the elements should be separate. There's barely any difference in Awakening other than Wind is weak but accurate, Thunder is strong but prone to miss and Fire is the middle ground. Perhaps Wind should be about always attacking twice with very weak power, Thunder should be about greater ange and Fire greater power, or they should have their own special effects. Dark magic already has a lot of oddities that make it stand out most of the time, so why not being able to summon a wall of flame or have a shield of electricity.

You could also rethink magic as AoE spells only that can only be cast a few times per map, while giving Mages the ability to use knives and staves to fight. Priests should have maces and staves instead.

I agree with these two, magic should be split, but the different types need to be different enough to warrant this. That said the differences need to still be balanced otherwise we run into the dnd issue at high levels the casters are basically gods, and the non magical people are dead weight most of the time.

[Jotari]

But do we really need five distinct magic types? They struggle to make three magic types different as it is. Though to throw out ideas wind magic could be basically a magic type of bows, effective against fliers but can't be used a short range. Maybe a longbow type three range wind tome too.