Shin Apotheosis Musou

[MelonGx]

As the topic, this thread discusses sweeping Apotheosis enemies in enemy phase as many as possible by one pair & necessary helpers (at least a rallybot).

Basic strategy: VVDS+

Vantage + Vengeance + Celica's Gale + 100% Dual Strike + enough power and accuracy to 6-hit KO enemies as many as possible

- Vengeance provides at least 10~20 damage against Aegis+.

- But since leading damage is seriously restricted by enemies' Aegis+, focusing boosting support side's Str/Mag while sacrificing leading side's Vengeance, such as Olivia!Lucina (single Vantage, no Vengeance) / Extreme Str/Mag Morgan-M, is also feasible.

- Each +1 Str/Mag on support side provides +2 total damage in the 6-hit.

- Each +1 Str/Mag on leading side provides +0.5 total damage against Aegis+ in the 6-hit.

Performers:

- Lucina

- Lucina's husband

- Rallybot

- Chrom (x FeMU or Olivia only. The latter is unpractical.)

Who will be the leader?

- Lucina's husband: Default option, since most of the optimized Lucinas lack Vantage.

- Lucina: Only FeMU!Lucina and Olivia!Lucina are available to be the leader. Sully!Lucina has Vantage but she has no Tome classes.

- When Lucina's husband leads, Lucina is the only supporter and her output is restricted.

- When Lucina leads, we can choose higher output supporters. Physical supporters are also exclusive here.

Hit Problem:

- Brave Axe users usually need Hit+20 and one more Hit+10 skill to ensure a 100% hit on Throne Berserker (see the enemy Avo database).

---------------------------------

Some specific Q&A

Why physical supporters > magical supporters when Lucina leads?

- Physical supporters' max damage to Hi-Def > Magical supporters' max damage to Hi-Res.

- The loss of Mag pair bonus is very low. Switching Sage to Berserker decreases 6 Mag on leading side = Only -3 damage against Aegis+.

Difference of FeMU!Lucina and Olivia!Lucina:

- FeMU!Lucina has Vengeance (+10~20) and Tomefaire (+2). But she loses Extreme Morgan access (+8).

- Olivia!Lucina has Extreme Morgan access (+8) but lacks Vengeance (+10~20) and Tomefaire (+2).

Any good Lucina's husband's leading options?

- See Czar_Yoshi's analysis in another topic, or calculate it yourself.

Rankings?

- Under construction.

------------------------

Database

Enemies theoretically cannot be tanked:

- NM Wave 3/5 Longbows

- SR Wave 1 Warriors

- SR Wave 4 Mires if you're outside their moving range or your HP < their Mire's damage.

The most difficult enemies to be 4-hit KOed from support side (Required-Physical-ATK/Required-Magical-ATK)

- SR Wave 4 Berserker on the Throne (117/108)

- SR Wave 5 Berserkers (114/105)

- SR Wave 5 Anna (105/105)

- SR Wave 2/5 Boss Sniper (110/86)

- SR Wave 3/5 Boss Sorcerer (96/104)

Enemies who have a high Avo:

- SR Wave 4 Berserker on the Throne (148)

- SR Wave 3/5 Boss Sorcerer (139)

- SR Wave 5 Anna (137)

- SR Wave 2/5 Boss Sniper (131)

- SR Wave 5 Berserkers (128)

More points going to be added here later.

Edited May 19, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

The Mire DFs can avoid Vantage and counterattacks, but they don't get forges or procs and it's fairly plausible to just have them tink you (requires 74 Res). Sage handily gives +7, and most VV units have a spare skillslot that can be used for Res+10 if the DFs prove to be a major obstacle. LB/Rally/Res+10/Sage provide +37 Res, and Sage has 40 base Res so unless you somehow have a Res mod of -4, are up against the clock, or can't use LB/Rally for whatever reason, they're not too much of a threat.

Anyhow, about VV tanking, there's an idea I've been working on over the past few days: what about 100% crit rates? Apo enemies start at 55 Lck so the idea sounds a bit absurd, but... it's actually possible, and I'd like some feedback. First, a calculation of the maximum possible crit rate:

+Skl/-Def Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan@Sage (Wrath(crit+20)/Gamble(crit+10)/Focus(crit+10)/LB(crit+5)/Zeal(crit+5)) x Avatar-F@Sniper/BK (Solidarity/Anathema/DS+). For the purpose of simplifying calculations I'll treat Anathema as Crit+10. +15 is the max amount of crit that can be obtained from support as adding another unit removes the Focus boost. Morgan has a forged Wilderwind (50 crit).

Skl: 43(base) +10(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +7(pairup) +2(tonic) +4(Barracks) =84, 42 base crit.

Crit: 42 +20(Wrath) +10(Gamble) +10(Focus) +5(Zeal) +10(Solidarity) +10(Anathema) +15(DS+) +50(Wilderwind) =172. That's enough to get a 100% critical rate on the 70 Lck Sorcs.

It's obviously extremely impractical, though, first and foremost because it lacks Vantage. Here's a set that may be more interesting. I'll use Gregor!Laurent x Avatar-F (yes, Lon'qu!Laurent is better, but he breaks no thresholds that Gregor!Laurent doesn't. If you'd rather have Gregor elsewhere Lon'qu works too, but I like Lon'qu!Severa so I'm using Gregor). Laurent is a Sorc with +3/25 Ruin, Avatar is a Sage.

Gregor!Laurent (Wrath/Gamble/Focus/Vantage/Vengeance) x Avatar (Solidarity/Anathema/DS+/filler).

Laurent's Skl: 38(Sorc) +4(mods) +10(Rally) +7(Sage pairup) +2(tonic) =61. Base crit: 30.

Crit: 30(base) +20(Wrath) +10(Focus) +10(Gamble) +10(Solidarity) +10(Anathema) +15(DS+) +50(Ruin) =155, exactly enough for 100% crit rate on all the mooks. Damage is obviously going to be a concern however, because I dropped LB.

44(Sorc) +3(mods) +10(Rally) +9(Sage pairup) +9(Ruin) +2(tonic) +42(Vengeance) =119.

To kill a non-Aegis+ 80 HP foe with a crit, I need to do 27*3 damage, or 54 before Dragonskin. The highest Res of any non-Aegis+ foe with 55 Lck is on Wave 4's Sage boss, 55. 119 -55 =64, so I'm actually 15 damage over target. Laurent can take a fairly suboptimal Vengeance boost and still sweep.

Hitrate is also a concern here, mainly due to the lack of LB but also because Sorcs aren't the most accurate units around. Fortunately I can afford a +25 Hit forge on Ruin.

Laurent's Lck: 45(base) +0(mods) +14(Rally) +3(Sage pairup) +2(tonic) =64. 61*3 +64 /2 =123 base Hit.

123(base) +20(DS+) +85(Ruin) -5(Gamble) +10(Anathema) =233 Hit. The highest Avo of any 55 Lck non-Aegis+ foe is 120 (that Sage again) so no worries there.

So far, this isn't really that different from normal VV except that it doesn't work on Anna or anything with Aegis+, which are pretty major drawbacks. It does, however, have a few perks that make it noteworthy.

First, it's immune to Counter. Those wave 1 Warriors? Not a problem, assuming you can get Vengeance up in time (but their Res is so bad Vengeance will automatically be in range if Wrath/Vantage are).

Second, Avatar and Laurent aren't required to be married for it to work. Morgan's other two most appealing parents for this are Chrom and Walhart. Chrom locks Morgan out of marrying Lucina, but makes Lucina a good deal stronger (since Avatar's Asset/Flaw don't matter, you can pass her whatever) and she can still perform decently with Owain if you want a traditional VV setup. Walhart, on the other hand, makes a nice physical Morgan with +9 Str. Laurent!Morgan is pretty good too, but the point is you have more options.

Here's the third bit, though. I'll use a bit of a different setup.

Gregor!Laurent@Sage (same skills) x Avatar-F (same). Laurent has a Barracks Boost in Skl. No Rallies this time.

Laurent's Skl: 43(base) +4(mods) +7(Sage pairup) +2(tonic) +4(Barracks) =60, or 30 Crit. That's the same as the Sorc setup, using +3/0/15 Wilderwind 155 Crit can be achieved without using Rally.

Laurent's Atk: 46(base) +3(mods) +9(Sage pairup) +2(tonic) +7(Wilderwind) +42(Vengeance) =109, which is exactly enough to KO.

Laurent's Hit is a little shakier, he drops to 115 base due to lower stats and loses 15 due to no forge on his weapon, 115 +70 +20 -5 +10 =210, which falls short on that Sage by 10 (with True Hit, that's still a 98.1% chance to hit). The 2nd fastest enemy, Ikeadin (Ragnell Paladin) has exactly 110 Avo, so no worries there. If that one Sage is important enough, use Hex on Avatar and engage on PP.

Basically, this set works under the no Limit/Agg/Rally challenge run, albeit with much more preparation (Wilderwind has 5 uses and can't be bought). However, Dual Strikes aren't required so it might be possible to use it to expand the run to no Limit/Agg/Rally/DS.

Well, that was longer than I thought. Thoughts?

Edited May 19, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Raftina]

- When Lucina's husband leads, Lucina is the only supporter and her output is restricted.

- When Lucina leads, we can choose higher output supporters. Physical supporters are also exclusive here.

There is an additional problem to Lucina as support: She lacks AT and relies on the 20 use Celica's Gale. Using Lucina as the support has much more stringent requirements on positioning than FeMU!Lucina, because her weapon breaks more quickly than a 30 use brave or an AT backed weapon.

As the topic, this thread discusses sweeping Apotheosis enemies in enemy phase as many as possible by one pair & necessary helpers (at least a rallybot).

Equipping Aggressor allows you to use player phase to attack the 99 hp, 64 def, 55 res berserkers. There are 3 of them, 1 as a boss on wave 4 and 2 as normal enemies during wave 5. A Galeforce user can sweep out both moving berserkers during player phase with the additional damage from Aggressor. This greatly reduces the damage threshold needed for enemy phase tanking.

- SR Wave 4 Mires if you're outside their moving range or your HP < their Mire's damage.

45 (valkyrie)+10 (LB)+10 (rallies)+2 (tonic)+3 (pairup)+4 (sage pairup)=74, 0 damage from Mire.

44 (sorc) will need +1 res from mods. +mag/-def FeMU!Lucina has +1 res.

This leaves the questions of whether a support sage allows 6 hit KO on the throne berserker, and whether you can achieve 100% hit rate.

Damage:

FeMU!Lucina effective mt as valkyrie at 1 hp (LB/V/V/DS+/Anathema): 131, 18 damage per hit on throne berserker

Gregor!Owain mt as sage (LB/TF/AS+2/Mag+2/AT): 90, 16 damage per hit on throne berserker.

Total: 100, just enough for 6 hit KO.

This also works with Brady and Laurent.

Hit rate:

FeMU!Lucina as valkyrie: 69 skl, 68 luk=137 hit, 217 with base Celica. Needs 21 hit from forge for 100%. But this reduces damage below the necessary threshold. Fail. Sorcerer Lucina works because it has 3 mt of leeway.

Donnel!Owain as sage: 66 skl, 71 luk=134 hit, 214 with base Celica. Needs 24 hit from forge for 100% hit. But this reduces damage below the necessary threshold. Fail.

Gregor!Owain as sage: 69 skl, 67 luk=137 hit, 218 with base Celica. Needs 21 hit from forge for 100%. But this reduces damage below the necessary threshold. Fail.

Gregor!Brady as sage: 71 skl, 68 luk=140 hit, 220 with base Celica. Needs 18 hit from forge for 100%. But this reduces damage below the necessary threshold. Fail.

Gregor!Laurent as sage: 71 skl, 65 luk=139 hit, 219 with base Celica. Needs 19 hit from forge for 100%. Gregor!Laurent has 1 mt of leeway because Miriel has 1 more mag than Lissa and Maribelle. This works.

You will note that I left out Rally Luck. This is because spectrum/heart/skl/mag/res fits on a single rally bot, and the goal is to minimize deployment count.

Result:

FeMU!Lucina (+mag/luk) sorcerer with LB/DS+/V/V/Anathema

Gregor!Laurent sage with LB/TF/AS+2/mag+2/AT

This pair can deal with everything on secret Apo except the wave 1 warriors. Necessary supports are 1 rally bot, 1 staffbot to pull the rally bot out of the way, and Chrom.

[MelonGx]

An optimized VDS+ that immunes Counter:

Front: Olivia!Lucina

Class: Dark Flier

Skill: Vantage, Galeforce, Dual Strike+, Charm, filler

Requirement: Mag < 30

Mag<30 makes Olivia!Lucina immune to Range 1 Counters with a non-forged Celica's Gale, +3 pair-up bonus, and +6 rally effect.

Back: Vaike!Gerome!Morgan

Class: General

Skill: LB, Axefaire, All+2, Hit+20, Aggressor

This set makes VGM:

1) 100% natural hit to everyone except Throne Berserker (he needs Lucina's Charm to reach 100% hit against Throne Berserker)

2) 108 MT on enemy phase (only Boss Sniper (110) & Boss Berserkers (117) can't be 4-hit KO in enemy phase --- that's why we need Aggressor)

Rallybot: Heart, Spectrum, Strength, Skill, Luck