Why don't people use Nino?

[Sunshine]

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30268&hl=%2Brate+%2Bunit+%2Bnino

Check that thread out. It's my masterpiece It's something that I started a while ago that got taken over by various others, and generally encompasses all thoughts regarding Nino. Gosh I almost forgot I started that.

Thank you very much, I will read this thoroughly.

[shadowofchaos]

You'd better prepare for some hugely negative opinions.

Especially with the Hector Hard Mode context there.

[Tamanoir]

There may be a Nino VS Lilina here somewhere, for a long long time ago.

(And Nino VS Lute. Yeah... It was a really bad idea)

It can still be interresting.

Edited May 22, 2014 by shytende

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Only reason I like Nino is because I am a masochist who likes Ests (Sophia is a favorite)

But even by my silly standards, Nino really does come into the game way too late. I love Ests, and I even noticed that.

Edited May 22, 2014 by L95

[Nicolas]

Only reason I like Nino is because I am a masochist who likes Ests (Sophia is a favorite)

Try Sara.

[Rehab]

nino kind of blows

why put effort into making a unit "great" when i can not put in effort to beat the game with units that are "good"

It's having one's idea of fun be to manage a world series win, versus to coach Little League

(editor's note: it is probably unclear from this post that I prefer the latter)

Edited May 22, 2014 by Rehab

[XeKr]

I used Nino my last FE7 run. It was pretty fun.

More generally, I'm sure tons of people use Nino, but I'm not sure if they can defend calling her a good, or high tiered, character.

[Ϲharlie]

I've only leveled Nino once or twice. I don't normally use her simply because I don't feel like it. I don't see any reason to put the effort into her when she has less than ten chapters to her name, and I already have a slew of characters who can stand on their own.

Try Sara.

But Sara is actually good. There's nothing masochistic about using her. o_O

[Florete]

Hm...reading this topic, maybe this is actually wrong, but I recall that plenty of people do use Nino, at least on occasion or as much as any other unit. The pro is that she's cute. The con, which happens to be quite detrimental, is that she sucks.

Personally, I do enjoy using her every other run, but purely because I enjoy raising such a weak unit into a badass and don't mind the time and effort it takes when I'm playing casually.

In my opinion, I find that Nino is a decent unit that can be trained very well, and I don't think that she's too much of a liability when compared to the pegasus knights which are almost completely outclassed by the Wyvern knights; Nino can hold her own as a magic unit and as a unit in general. I feel she should be used more often than I've seen. What do you think?

What is this comparison?

Not only is it flat-out wrong (Florina is easily better than Heath and Vaida, Fiora similar to Heath and better than Vaida), it's completely out of left field.

[Nicolas]

I've only leveled Nino once or twice. I don't normally use her simply because I don't feel like it. I don't see any reason to put the effort into her when she has less than ten chapters to her name, and I already have a slew of characters who can stand on their own. But Sara is actually good. There's nothing masochistic about using her. o_O

That is my point.

Sara is really nice for people, who like ests, because she is easy to use.

I can't imagine how much funnier must be using Sara for people who usually are using Nino or Wendy.

[Tamanoir]

I used Nino my last FE7 run. It was pretty fun.

More generally, I'm sure tons of people use Nino, but I'm not sure if they can defend calling her a good, or high tiered, character.

She is good. And she become great. She's just not worth the investment, efficiently speaking.

Personally, I do enjoy using her every other run, but purely because I enjoy raising such a weak unit into a badass and don't mind the time and effort it takes when I'm playing casually.

This. It depends of your gamplay, and how much you think it's worth training her.

She's a pretty stereotypical Est character.

You will be rewarded if you decide to train her. You just have to decide if it's a fair trade or not.

That's why I think it's more interresting to judge her worth, than to judge if she's good or not (Though efficiently, probably not).

And that's also why whether you like her or not is important here.

[dondon151]

While facts are important, I also understand that the opinions and experiences of those that have traveled the road before me are just as valuable. Sure, I could look anywhere and find specific points for or against nino or any other unit for that matter; instead I came here, imploring the opinions and expertise of people that most likely have had said different experiences in a game where the RNG is almighty. That said, may I have your opinion?

the experiences are largely not valuable because they've been influenced by a large amount of bias.

suppose that nino has good stats once she's been grinded up. (she does.) many casual players fawn over this detail without stopping to consider why she gets special treatment. her low joining level this late in the game is, to them, adequate rationale for the expectation that she'll turn out good after adequately leveled up.

but that's obviously not true. if you put in that same amount of effort into just about any other unpromoted unit, you get the same results. you'll also get those results earlier. imagine if, rather than spending 100 turns grinding nino in chapter 28x, you spent 100 turns grinding erk in chapter 14 instead. erk is much better (relative to the enemies), for much longer (relative to nino). why does a subset of casual players insist otherwise? they do not seem to understand this argument.

they also possess a blind spot that has to do with the perceived importance of stats. FE7 has weak enemies on the whole, so there is very little value to having stats that exceed a certain threshold. any statistical advantage that nino has over pent is irrelevant 99% of the time - so why does a subset of casual players insist otherwise?

i briefly outlined a couple of very simple arguments above that expose the logical gaps in the assertion that nino is good in almost any context, efficient or casual. i will even go a step farther and contend that these arguments cannot be demonstrated false (well, they are falsifiable, but there is no such evidence).

Edited May 22, 2014 by dondon151

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Try Sara.

Oh yes, she is wonderful

Paragon+staff user is nice

Edited May 22, 2014 by L95

[Rehab]

the experiences are largely not valuable because they've been influenced by a large amount of bias.

suppose that nino has good stats once she's been grinded up. (she does.) many casual players fawn over this detail without stopping to consider why she gets special treatment. her low joining level this late in the game is, to them, adequate rationale for the expectation that she'll turn out good after adequately leveled up.

but that's obviously not true. if you put in that same amount of effort into just about any other unpromoted unit, you get the same results. you'll also get those results earlier. imagine if, rather than spending 100 turns grinding nino in chapter 28x, you spent 100 turns grinding erk in chapter 14 instead. erk is much better (relative to the enemies), for much longer (relative to nino). why does a subset of casual players insist otherwise? they do not seem to understand this argument.

they also possess a blind spot that has to do with the perceived importance of stats. FE7 has weak enemies on the whole, so there is very little value to having stats that exceed a certain threshold. any statistical advantage that nino has over pent is irrelevant 99% of the time - so why does a subset of casual players insist otherwise?

i briefly outlined a couple of very simple arguments above that expose the logical gaps in the assertion that nino is good in almost any context, efficient or casual. i will even go a step farther and contend that these arguments cannot be demonstrated false (well, they are falsifiable, but there is no such evidence).

EXP rank booster? :p

[deleted35362]

Where does this even keep coming from? Not only are Pent's base stats great, his growths aren't actually that much worse than other units'. His only really bad growth is SKL at 20% (which honestly doesn't matter because he has a 21 base in that stat) - on the other hand, his defensive growths actually beat a lot of other units'! 30% DEF in particular is pretty good and beats every other magic user's growth in that area.

Also, if we're gonna drop stat boosters on units - might as well drop an angelic robe on Pent to fix his only questionable stat, eh?

it comes from playing the game lol. my other magic users tend to surpass him in speed which is easily the most important stat in the game because of the rng system. i mentioned stat boosting items as insurance for an earlygame character because having a speedy character with 1-2 range that can break through physical defense is really useful when you're in the earlygame and don't yet have a whole team of promoted characters to curbstomp the enemies. even if pent outclasses erk, the other magic users still tend to be better than pent for me.

[ZemZem]

I like Nino, and she's not as hard to train as people make her out to be, but Pent exists. And Erk, though he's not that great.

[Zaprong]

The real question is why do people use Nino?

Seriously, there are LOTS of people who use her.

And I can see why, I mean, Backstory, conversations with a lot of the villains in the game, and awesome growths and she is a loli

was the doge meme really necesary? >_>

[ZemZem]

Because they like her?

[Junkhead]

The real question is why do people use Nino?

Seriously, there are LOTS of people who use her.

And I can see why, I mean, Backstory, conversations with a lot of the villains in the game, and awesome growths and she is a loli

was the doge meme really necesary? >_>

Uhhh, guys fanboy over female characters, loli or not.

[Zaprong]

^Exactly, let me go fanboy over Dorothy :V

There are SEVERAL female characters that doesn't get fanboys or anything

also I meant that people use her a lot even when themselves say ''don't use her'' lol

Edited May 23, 2014 by Zaprong

[Junkhead]

Those sexist fanboys make me sick.

[Sunshine]

the experiences are largely not valuable because they've been influenced by a large amount of bias.

suppose that nino has good stats once she's been grinded up. (she does.) many casual players fawn over this detail without stopping to consider why she gets special treatment. her low joining level this late in the game is, to them, adequate rationale for the expectation that she'll turn out good after adequately leveled up.

but that's obviously not true. if you put in that same amount of effort into just about any other unpromoted unit, you get the same results. you'll also get those results earlier. imagine if, rather than spending 100 turns grinding nino in chapter 28x, you spent 100 turns grinding erk in chapter 14 instead. erk is much better (relative to the enemies), for much longer (relative to nino). why does a subset of casual players insist otherwise? they do not seem to understand this argument.

they also possess a blind spot that has to do with the perceived importance of stats. FE7 has weak enemies on the whole, so there is very little value to having stats that exceed a certain threshold. any statistical advantage that nino has over pent is irrelevant 99% of the time - so why does a subset of casual players insist otherwise?

i briefly outlined a couple of very simple arguments above that expose the logical gaps in the assertion that nino is good in almost any context, efficient or casual. i will even go a step farther and contend that these arguments cannot be demonstrated false (well, they are falsifiable, but there is no such evidence).

I feel like there's bias in not just experiences, but even the classic rating; I do see your point though. Now I never specified if this Nino were for something such as an LTC, a draft, a ranked run, or a PVP team (Though understandably I doubt there's anyone doing PVP for FE 7 very often anymore, but that's just me).

As for the problem with the mages, well the problem is I didn't get those results. The Random Number God is a fickle mistress. My magic users ended up ruined by the RNG, and I used Nino to cover for it. I do agree that it's tedious, takes a lot of turns up, and is inefficient, but is that all that there is? What about the satisfaction that one feels after doing something that they find as tedious or impossible? Of course, this in and of itself is as subjective as the next person's opinion.

I do thank you for your opinion though, it's fun hearing from you! Having played through FE7 a number of times, I can see that the enemies aren't all the strongest, and maybe I should focus on maxing my rating every time I play a Fire Emblem game, though that doesn't always seem fun to me. Occasionally I would rather sacrifice my rating just to see how high I can get someone's stats. Sometimes I'll sacrifice it because I have a little more fun playing in the way I do; and if using Nino makes it more fun then I will use her, because that's what makes the game fun for me.

It may be a war game, but to me it's a game before anything so I'll do my best to have fun, and I'll do it my way, which is affected by the opinions of friends, but my own personal whims and emotions too.

Edit: I'm sorry, I never responded to one of your earlier comments. For future reference, this is the reason why I "hate tiers": I don't hate people who create tiers, nor do I hate the tiers themselves. In fact, I will consult them to see what others think. It's when people take tiers to be the greatest resource when playing a game, or when they use tiers to judge or put down. If you want to do a "Low tier" run or a "Mid tier" run, okay. That's cool, but when you laugh at people for using a "Low tier" character seriously, I get irritated. Not saying anyone here does this at all, I've never seen someone do this, though I've only been here about a month or so.

The real question is why do people use Nino?

Seriously, there are LOTS of people who use her.

And I can see why, I mean, Backstory, conversations with a lot of the villains in the game, and awesome growths and she is a loli

was the doge meme really necesary? >_>

I don't know, that's another reason for this thread. I guess I should have made the topic "Why do/don't people use nino?" It's more a personal question to get opinion's and facts that I'll make sure to remember for future reference.

Personally, the first time I used her seriously was because of the debt I owe to her for being the mother of Lugh and Ray. I don't like her as a character. Still, she's not that bad. I prefer Erk though.

I didn't know whether people used her or not.

It's not necessary, but it's not like it hurt anything.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Marek

[Ϲharlie]

What on Earth do sexist fanboys have to do with anything?

[Zaprong]

I don't know, that's another reason for this thread. I guess I should have made the topic "Why do/don't people use nino?" It's more a personal question to get opinion's and facts that I'll make sure to remember for future reference.

Personally, the first time I used her seriously was because of the debt I owe to her for being the mother of Lugh and Ray. I don't like her as a character. Still, she's not that bad. I prefer Erk though.

I didn't know whether people used her or not.

It's not necessary, but it's not like it hurt anything.

I'm not complaining or anything, I was just making the comment that everyone uses her don't worry lol

I bet the debt was mainly because of Ray

What on Earth do sexist fanboys have to do with anything?

Maybe he meant that people fanboy more about more cute and sexy characters over other characters I'm guessing

[Florete]

Those sexist fanboys make me sick.

Preferring attractive characters over less-attractive characters is, like, the lowest form of sexism. It's not even worth pointing out.

My magic users ended up ruined by the RNG, and I used Nino to cover for it.

Pent is RNG proof, though. He usually won't need any more than his base stats to function pretty much for the rest of the game.

Additionally, the game never requires you to use a magic unit.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire