Does "paragon" and "blossom" make Astrid more useful?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'm playing on hard mode again and have finshed 3-10.

In the base before 3-11 you have the Greil's Mecenaries and Crimean Knights together, so you have access to the "paragon" and the "blossom" skill.

I actually have never thaught about this skill combination.

The main problem is that the units except for the Laguz have not enough capacity to get both skills. So you can give the blossom skill only to a character, who has a "free" paragon skill. Geoffrey leaves the party till 4-5, so the only one contendor for this combination would be Astrid. Seriously I never have trained her, because her growths are pretty bad. So much more I think, it could work with this skill combiation.

My aim would be to give Astrid many great level ups as possible, so she can cap maybe some stats in level 11-13 (guessed). I would promote her with the mastercrown early as possible.

I also know that the blossom skill does not always guarantee great level ups.

Has someone had good or bad experiences with my idea?

Edited June 3, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Junkhead]

I think the real question is, "does Blossom" make Astrid more useful"? And the answer, would still be, uh...sort of not. She comes with innate Paragaon. And, if you are using her, you don't really have much of a good reason to keep it on her, so she can mix it up with Blossom. And if you do want an actually useful in the end, then she does manage to work in Part 4.

I've actually drafted her once, on a HM draft. Her Blossom growths are able to actually redeem her a bit, and it just seems this skill combo was meant for her. She'll get great level-ups, yeah. But her base stats and growths are horrendous...

[Jedi]

Never tried it myself but I always found Bexp spam always guaranteed 3 stat level ups.

Literally due to all the bexp and certain chapters where you can abuse paragon you can get anyone to good status. Like I get Tormod caught up in his returning chapter in part 4 via Paragon and high ground abuse alone, If I can do that you can get Astrid up no problem.

[Soledai]

I tried it once but I can't remeber the details.

I'm wondering, does it make your exp gain 1x or 1.5x?

Edited June 3, 2014 by Soledai

[Junkhead]

Her Exp gain is normal, when on ParaBlossom.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Jeff Strongman

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Never tried it myself but I always found Bexp spam always guaranteed 3 stat level ups.

Literally due to all the bexp and certain chapters where you can abuse paragon you can get anyone to good status. Like I get Tormod caught up in his returning chapter in part 4 via Paragon and high ground abuse alone, If I can do that you can get Astrid up no problem.

I'm playing on hard mord, so I have not much bexp. at this point. I only use it, if someone is close to a level up (90+ exp.) and has maxed 3 stats already. I have to save most of the bexp. till the finale.

Of course it's a good way on easy and normal mode.

I tried it once but I can't remeber the details.

I'm wondering, does it make your exp gain 1x or 1.5x?

x1, because paragon gives you x2 and blossom x1/2 experience.

I think the real question is, "does Blossom" make Astrid more useful"? And the answer, would still be, uh...sort of not. She comes with innate Paragaon. And, if you are using her, you don't really have much of a good reason to keep it on her, so she can mix it up with Blossom. And if you do want an actually useful in the end, then she does manage to work in Part 4.

I've actually drafted her once, on a HM draft. Her Blossom growths are able to actually redeem her a bit, and it just seems this skill combo was meant for her. She'll get great level-ups, yeah. But her base stats and growths are horrendous...

Mist is also a good example for blossom.

She also has pathetic bases and poor strength and defense growths. I gave her blossom and she got good level ups (6 stats in average). She is currently level 9 with a strength of 13. If she maxes speed and magic at least, I will promote her with the holy crown in 4-1.

Leonardo would be also a good contender for blossom, but he can only get it earliest in part 4.

Edited June 3, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Tables]

I haven't tried the combo, but I can't say I'm really very convinced by it. At best it's useful for a short while to boost her growths up, at worst you're slowing down her levelling more than you gain from Blossom. The reality is probably somewhere in between, but I kinda suspect it's closer to the latter. While she will grow a lot thanks to Blossom level ups, she's also going to be levelling significantly slower for a while, and two normal level ups will on average always beat out one Blossom level up. Blossom also delays hitting tier 3 for those sexy promotion boosts, Sol, and Lance use, all of which are pretty great for Astrid to have sooner rather than later. And while Blossom can promote early to emulate this, that kinda defeats the point - you end up in a position of no benefit over flat levelling, probably with lower stats if anything (at best stats which are marginally better), have used a Master Crown and been gimping yourself with 15 CAP of skills used up by default. So Blossom into early promotion seems like a no-go.

And finally, note that with roughly average luck and optimal BEXP usage Astrid is likely to cap everything as a Silver Knight - now optimal BEXP is pretty unlikely due to having like 4 chapters between joining the GMs and Endgame, but that just means realistically she's able to get close to her caps at max level. Astrid likely isn't realistically maxing her level, either, even without blossom, which leads me to think the following:

The best way to benefit from Blossom on Astrid is likely to put it on her for a few chapters while she's catching up, but then remove it likely at the start of part 4. Your levelling will be slower, lowering your stats somewhat in the short term, and promotion to tier 3 a bit later (I'd expect it to occur in 4-P/1/2, rather than 3-E which I'd expect with just Paragon) but in exchange you get slightly better stats for your level and due to having a lower level, will gain EXP slightly quicker, giving eventually a small stat lead in Endgame. I expect this lead to be fairly small, so it probably isn't worth it (then again if you're using Astrid, you probably don't care if a strat is optimal...) but it's something.

And really this same thing could be done for any characters. I expect it'd work best for ones who typically finish furthest away from their caps and perhaps whose caps are actually worthwhile to try and attain - e.g. Ike, Shinon, Boyd. Edit: What I'm trying to say I suppose is that Astrid's innate Paragon doesn't really combo with Blossom, this is more just Blossom's usefulness itself. Paragon means the EXP gain looks way better, yes, but I don't think having both together is any better than having a Paragon on one person and Blossom on another.

Mist is also a good example for paragon.

She also has pathetic bases and poor strength and defense growths. I gave her blossom and she got good level ups (6 stats in average).

Average is actually 5.31 stats per level. Fortunately as Mist is a long way from any caps, it'll stay at something like that rate for quite a while (probably until she caps speed at somewhere around level 13, give or take)

Edited June 3, 2014 by Tables

[Junkhead]

Mist is also a good example for paragon.

She also has pathetic bases and poor strength and defense growths. I gave her blossom and she got good level ups (6 stats in average). She is currently level 9 with a strength of 13. If she maxes speed and magic at least, I will promote her with the holy crown in 4-1.

Leonardo would be also a good contender for paragon, but he can only get it earliest in part 4.

Mist isn't a good example for Paragon...I mean, if you're using her for something other than healing, then you should give it to her. Astrid uses it great with ParaBlossom, that's why it's a bad idea to remove it from her, if you're using her.

Try to get Astrid to a high level, cap some stats and then get her to lvl. 20.

[Jedi]

Ah hard mode is a different story. My bad on that

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Mist isn't a good example for Paragon...I mean, if you're using her for something other than healing, then you should give it to her. Astrid uses it great with ParaBlossom, that's why it's a bad idea to remove it from her, if you're using her.

Try to get Astrid to a high level, cap some stats and then get her to lvl. 20.

Whoops!

I meant blossom! I even mixed these skills...

to myself!

Ah hard mode is a different story. My bad on that

No, it's not!

I didn't mention it.

I haven't tried the combo, but I can't say I'm really very convinced by it. At best it's useful for a short while to boost her growths up, at worst you're slowing down her levelling more than you gain from Blossom. The reality is probably somewhere in between, but I kinda suspect it's closer to the latter. While she will grow a lot thanks to Blossom level ups, she's also going to be levelling significantly slower for a while, and two normal level ups will on average always beat out one Blossom level up. Blossom also delays hitting tier 3 for those sexy promotion boosts, Sol, and Lance use, all of which are pretty great for Astrid to have sooner rather than later. And while Blossom can promote early to emulate this, that kinda defeats the point - you end up in a position of no benefit over flat levelling, probably with lower stats if anything (at best stats which are marginally better), have used a Master Crown and been gimping yourself with 15 CAP of skills used up by default. So Blossom into early promotion seems like a no-go.

And finally, note that with roughly average luck and optimal BEXP usage Astrid is likely to cap everything as a Silver Knight - now optimal BEXP is pretty unlikely due to having like 4 chapters between joining the GMs and Endgame, but that just means realistically she's able to get close to her caps at max level. Astrid likely isn't realistically maxing her level, either, even without blossom, which leads me to think the following:

The best way to benefit from Blossom on Astrid is likely to put it on her for a few chapters while she's catching up, but then remove it likely at the start of part 4. Your levelling will be slower, lowering your stats somewhat in the short term, and promotion to tier 3 a bit later (I'd expect it to occur in 4-P/1/2, rather than 3-E which I'd expect with just Paragon) but in exchange you get slightly better stats for your level and due to having a lower level, will gain EXP slightly quicker, giving eventually a small stat lead in Endgame. I expect this lead to be fairly small, so it probably isn't worth it (then again if you're using Astrid, you probably don't care if a strat is optimal...) but it's something.

And really this same thing could be done for any characters. I expect it'd work best for ones who typically finish furthest away from their caps and perhaps whose caps are actually worthwhile to try and attain - e.g. Mike, Shinon, Boyd. Edit: What I'm trying to say I suppose is that Astrid's innate Paragon doesn't really combo with Blossom, this is more just Blossom's usefulness itself. Paragon means the EXP gain looks way better, yes, but I don't think having both together is any better than having a Paragon on one person and Blossom on another.

Average is actually 5.31 stats per level. Fortunately as Mist is a long way from any caps, it'll stay at something like that rate for quite a while (probably until she caps speed at somewhere around level 13, give or take)

Ok, thanks.

If I play on hard mode, I always give the blossom skill to an unit to promote with the master crown as soon as possible to save bexp. as much aspossible till the finale. It works mostly.

I gave Ilyana also the blossom skill. She is currently level 11 and has already maxed strength, skill and speed. And she only needs 1 point to max magic and resistance as well. So I will give her 1 bexp. level to max these stats and I'll promote her on level 12.

Edited June 3, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Junkhead]

The bad thing about Blossom is that it doesn't let people gain good Exp. Especially when you consider someone like Mist, who you may be wanting to get alot of Exp, if you want them as combat units. Blossom can be pretty cool on Laguz, though. Since they get poor Exp on the first place and their growths aren't very good.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Most of the Laguz only get very few of exp., so it would take too much time and kills to gain a level up. The only contendor would be probably Volug, because it's the Laguz you will use the most during the game on hard mode.

I even would prefer to give paragon to the Laguz, except for the overleveled ones like Caineghis, Nailah, Nasir etc, who only get 1 exp. point.

[BrightBow]

I'm not sure if Blossom outdoes the increased leveling of Paragon. But even if it did, i think that it's a problem that Astrid is an archer. Combine that with her limited availability and she will probably get EXP way too slow.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'm not sure if Blossom outdoes the increased leveling of Paragon. But even if it did, i think that it's a problem that Astrid is an archer. Combine that with her limited availability and she will probably get EXP way too slow.

Paragon and blossom will give you normal experience (x1) and level ups of blossom for the unit. So it's not really the problem that she gains level ups too slow. Astrid already could get some levels in part 2 through paragon, but her main problem is her bad growth. That's why I considerd to give her blossom skill to get better growths.

That's what I mentoined in my initial question:

Astrid is the only one beorc, who can use this skill combination in 3-11, because the other ones have not enough capacity. Geoffrey could only use these skills earliest in 4-5, which even would be possible as well, because in this chapter you can get very much exp. for killing the Laguz.

[Junkhead]

Most of the Laguz only get very few of exp., so it would take too much time and kills to gain a level up. The only contendor would be probably Volug, because it's the Laguz you will use the most during the game on hard mode.

I even would prefer to give paragon to the Laguz, except for the overleveled ones like Caineghis, Nailah, Nasir etc, who only get 1 exp. point.

Yes, they do. And that's why, you're having them use it [blossom], since they're not getting much of any Exp, in the first place. You have to level them with BEXP to 99 and there.