Save states, yay or nay?

[Junkhead]

Wow. Thanks. I guess I'm "pretty pathetic" and have "low skill."

Hey, don't feel bad...he's not poking fun at anyone in particular because they're "low-skilled", in a single-player strategy game. I mean, it's not like you'd have a good reason to be "good", if you're playing it for yourself, to have fun.

The only reason why you should try being "good" is only if you're interested. At least for what the basic premise of a strategy game is worth to you (most don't care).

Edited July 3, 2014 by Jeff Strongman

[Chiki]

I don't have the time to replay entire chapters because of one little mistake. That's why I also state before Final Fantasy bosses. I don't have the time to replay it like that.

That's just false, unless you have a job that's like 80 hours a week or something, or you take some really hard classes at school.

[Nicolas]

I don't have the time to replay entire chapters because of one little mistake. That's why I also state before Final Fantasy bosses. I don't have the time to replay it like that.

Sorry my frend, but if you have to use save stats because your lack of precission that mean you have "low skill".

[FrostyFireMage]

Only when I'm playing on an emulator *coughdolphincough* that likes to bork.

[shadowofchaos]

A visual reason is totally not a reason to use savestates.

[Radiant Dragon]

The distinction is between a planned chapter attempt and a not planned chapter attempt. If you're just trying to clear a chapter, and you need to save state abuse to clear that chapter and rig a unit's survival, for example, that's pretty pathetic and an indication of low skill. But if you're trying to clear a chapter with a very specific purpose that requires RNG abuse, then that's not so bad. Is it an indication of low skill to get a 1% crit for a low turn count? To claim otherwise is idiotic.

Bolded part: a bad opinion. A strategy that is planned and requires RNG abuse is not necessarily a bad strategy, and I doubt anyone would agree with that. Look at the above example of getting a 1% crit to get a low turn count. LTC strategies that require RNG abuse aren't bad strategies:

I personally would agree that a strategy that is planned and requires RNG abuse to that extent is a bad strategy. Anyone can beat a chapter quickly if their units never get hit and always dodge. That's not an indication of skill, it's an indication of patience. If you're doing a playthrough where you're pushing the mechanics of the game to it's limits to find a theoretical quickest completion then fine, that's how you want to play. There is nothing wrong with that.

But don't look down on others who don't play the game the same way you do. Fire Emblem can be a very unforgiving series, so if someone wants to use savestates to avoid the frustration of having to start a chapter from the beginning because they made a positioning error that's also fine. That's part of the beauty of the series, there are a myriad of ways to play the game; None of them are right or wrong.

Getting back on topic, I use savestates: 1) for a quicker alternative to normal saves when emulating. 2) occasionally during RD drafts. and 3) because three Awakening's three save slots are not enough (my wife and sister each have a file also).

Edited July 3, 2014 by Radiant Dragon

[Chiki]

I personally would agree that a strategy that is planned and requires RNG abuse to that extent is a bad strategy. Anyone can beat a chapter quickly if their units never get hit and always dodge. That's not an indication of skill, it's an indication of patience. If you're doing a playthrough where you're pushing the mechanics of the game to it's limits to find a theoretical quickest completion then fine, that's how you want to play. There is nothing wrong with that.

But don't look down on others who don't play the game the same way you do. Fire Emblem can be a very unforgiving series, so if someone wants to use savestates to avoid the frustration of having to start a chapter from the beginning because they made a positioning error that's also fine. That's part of the beauty of the series, there are a myriad of ways to play the game; None of them are right or wrong.

Getting back on topic, I use savestates: 1) for a quicker alternative to normal saves when emulating. 2) occasionally during RD drafts. and 3) because three Awakening's three save slots are not enough (my wife and sister each have a file also).

It's not clear how you're rejecting the view I present here.

[Jotari]

On the whole I tend to not use save states because it is "cheating" in my eyes, using something that wasn't an intended part of the original game. There are exceptions however. Like when I first played Holy War I didn't notice the in game saves and used a save state whenever I conquered a castle, I felt really guilty about it. Similarily if a level has two or more very clear stages to it, like the Holy War castles, then I might use a save state because I know I can clear the first half of the level and doing it again would just be a huge waste of time. An example that comes to mind is the Reinhart level in Thracia. I abused the hell out of one of the enemy units buying Killer Axes after stealing their equipment in order to grind enough money to promote everyone. I made a save state then before finishing the level by crossing the bridge and facing Reinhart because I didn't want to spend those hours of money grinding again. In Thracia I also used savstates in the final levels because the translation caused the game to freeze when viewing certain enemy stats but I only used it when accidently activating the glitch (reinforcements with this glitch were actually the most bullshit part of the final chapter for me).

[Xator Nova]

I don't use savestates.

A strategy that requires an 1% critical for the minimum turn-count can't be objectively bad due to requiring the maximum level of competence and planning from the player (especially if such turncount can't be obtained by any other means). However, I would rather use the term "unreliable".

Edited July 3, 2014 by Xator Nova

[Nobody]

Only in FE4.

Or the 2 per chapter in FE11 and FE12

Save states kind of destroy the difficulty of fire emblem, even on the hardest modes.

I'd honestly say EHM is harder than EHM if you're not using save states in the former but are in the latter, for example.

[ZemZem]

I only use save states to rig misses so a strategy of mine can work. It doesn't happen often, though.

Edited July 3, 2014 by ZM©

[Irysa]

Does using save states to experiment with different moves on various turns count? I'm pretty bad at sitting down and just theoryising the entire map in my head unlike some people here can do, so if I'm planning a strategy I like to savestate to figure out the small things on each turn so I'm not constantly counting tiles and shit; and if it works do the whole thing clean. If the chapter's long I just wing it usually though.

Actually scratch that, I wing it most of the time in the easier games anyway, when the game's actually making me think then I like messing around with them.

That being said if a char I like in a casual run is falling behind on averages I'll probably rig them a growth or two via savestating if its GBA.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Irysa

[Jave]

Depends.

Never on FE8-13 because I play those on console. I do use Turn Save in FE10 NM (although I normally play HM) and the field ones in FE11 and FE12 since they're part of the game.

For the other games, I only use save states some times at the beginning of a turn (and not EVERY turn) for certain maps that go too long because it can be very frustrating to do the whole chapter again due to one mistake. FE5 and FE6 in particular can be very unforgiving.

And as someone said, it's a single player game so who cares.

I do not save state to rig level ups. I swallow every single one.

The only specific event in which I absolutely abuse save states is recruiting Xavier in FE5 Ch 18. I just don't have the patience to handle all that BS.

[Rehab]

LTC runs are attempts to push what is possible in the game to its limit, not necessarily to complete the game in as little real time as possible. (I imagine one could spend a lot more time planning and executing an LTC run than they would with a run that endeavored to never accept a hitrate below 90% or something.) I haven't heard of many people doing LTC runs blind, so I also assume most people doing them already a bunch of things that somebody who's getting all the information as it comes to them wouldn't. To me, the concept of LTC sort of assumes you already know how to beat the game, and is more about demonstrating how to make a run as efficient in the turn department as possible, so it seems as much about proving something is possible as it's about executing it.

So, keeping the the number of times you hit the reset button as low as possible is more of an indicator (though not necessarily always a sure determinant) of good strategy for runs that are just playing the game to completion than it is for LTC.

(basically: yeah, "good/bad strategy" can mean different things for LTC and completion runs)

For me, I prefer to keep my save state use low just for the sake of knowing that I "met the challenge fairly," but I'm not too religious about it. I may make a save, if available, when I come to a "decision point," more for the sake (hopefully) of having a place to go back to and try something else if I do something that doesn't work, and having that place not be the beginning of the chapter. I try not to just bullrush a single RN instance, but sometimes I save so much after I'm sure that my decision was the right one that it probably doesn't actually look much different to other people from regular old save-stating, haha.

some of these chapters take a while for me! I need my checkpoints

Edited July 3, 2014 by Rehab

[Chiki]

Does using save states to experiment with different moves on various turns count? I'm pretty bad at sitting down and just theoryising the entire map in my head unlike some people here can do,

Imo, good FE players should be able to come up with a detailed strategy for each chapter before attempting it. If the attempt fails, they should be able to adjust the general strategy and succeed eventually.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Chiki

[General Horace]

I'm bad so I use savestates

But really it's just so I don't miss 70s on bosses and stuff, and try out different unit placements. Oh also for Fe4 bosses and great shield. Fuck that skill.

[CT075]

i basically only use savestates so i can quickly repeat a specific situation so i can figure out why the fuck my hack isn't working

[Moira]

I don't think most people who use save states need them, it's more for the convenience they offer.

Also, I'm more concerned with how I want to play and not how the game was intended to be played, so I have no problems with using them when I want to.

[AMCC4728]

Only on certain FE6 bosses because fuck throne bonuses™.

[PKL]

In FE4 I could save every turn so its not even needed. I only savestate in FE6 when I'm about to be up against a boss, usually to rig Rutger or make sure he isn't crit because fuck FE6 bosses. I never use it in FE7 but I do use em in FE8 because I need to test if stuff works in my hack. I don't use it in vanilla obviously. I play FE9, 10 and 11 on console so yeah. And in FE12 I never use em, I just map save. I answered no in the poll because I only use it on 2 special ocassions on 2 games while I play many more..

[Quintessence]

Of course I use them, they save time, and plenty of it, specially when RNG is being ass and units die to sub 40 hit rates. It's like, if my strategy is good and consistent enough to make me clear the chapter, and if things don't go well because RNG isn't being cooperative, then why should I torture myself in repeating same old shit I do every now and then when I meet certain chapter or situation? I see no issue even on savestating every turn or every move. Another thing is if a strategy works or not.

[PKL]

Wow, the vast majority use them.

[General Horace]

Honestly asides from the people who don't emulate, I'd be surprised if most of the people who said no were jus white knighting themselves. Savestates are just way too convienet to not use, a huge timesaver.

Unless they're like PKL who said they use them but answered no anyway, because of some exception or something.

Fe4, 10, and kind of 11/12 essentially have them anyway.

Edited July 3, 2014 by General Horace

[Shauni]

The only times I really use them are to test things I've modified or whenever I play fe7if because that hack requires them unless you're a masochist.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Shauni

[Nicolas]

Honestly asides from the people who don't emulate, I'd be surprised if most of the people who said no were jus white knighting themselves. Savestates are just way too convienet to not use, a huge timesaver.

Without savestats you cannot get amazing tc, but I don't see savestats as huge timesaver. It just forces you to play with precision. I do it, because precision is not my strongest side.