Touhou Project 12: Undefined Fantastic Object Competition

[Zak Something]

I'll start as soon as I get free from other stuffs.

[ZemZem]

I only have one replay. C'mon, gentlemen, deadline for ReimuA is almost complete.

[ZemZem]

Undefined Fantastic Object Round 1: ReimuA Results

1st Place: Proto - 229,289,500 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34110
Stage 1: You prioritized with the red UFOs for some lives, which was a smart idea. Midboss and boss Nazrin was dealt with accordingly perfectly, and all in all this was a fantastic S1, you having the optimal four lives going into S2. Nice!

Stage 2: Now you started getting blue UFOs for points, but early on in the stage, you got yourself killed. Damn shame, but at least you didnt let that get to you. Midboss Kogasa went well, and you continue getting blue UFOs. Smart idea bombing to make sure you get the points from the UFO that was about to get away. Captured all of boss Kogasas spells. Nice job!

Stage 3: Ooh, you died again. :c No biggie, you still didnt let that get to you. UFO gives you a lot of opportunities to keep your lives at a good amount, but youre still continuing to get blue UFOs for points. Midboss Ichirin went well, as did boss Ichirin. Good S3!

Stage 4: You didnt let your greed get to you, as this stage is pretty dangerous when it comes to greed, as well as the next one. Nue was dealt with accordingly, and the blue UFO binge continues. Murasa was perfectly cleared, and you move onto S5!

Stage 5: Summoning more blue UFOs commences. Midboss Nazrin and her pagoda were cleared A-OK, and you went through the stage just fine without getting greedy. Shou's first two spells were captured, and you dealt with her curvy lasers just fine, too. I know you said you didnt capture Most Valuable Varja, but I didnt expect you to die TWICE from it. ._. I wouldve bombed after the first time I died, TBH, but you didnt let this blunder falter you and you captured Shou's second pagoda. Aside from the Varja mishap, good S5.

Stage 6: Summoned a green UFO for a bomb, then prioritized with blue UFOs until you reached Byakuren. Unfortunately you died to Maelstorm, but thats okay. That spellcard is evil. Bombed to the last non-spellcard, but that ones rough, too. Captured Recitation and her Fantastica, which means you beat the game. Congratulations!

My thoughts: For a replay you said you just made as quickly as possible, you did a great job at capturing spells and going through the game with strictly blue UFOs post S1. I wouldve personally gathered any stray UFOs to increase my point value while destroying UFOs, but no problem, you still destroyed every UFO you summoned. Great work!

2nd Place: Fera - 215,211,100 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34134

Stage 1: So you started off with collecting as many red UFOs as you could, as well as a rainbow UFO. Midboss and boss Nazrin were dealt with perfectly, and you entered S2 with four lives. Perfect S1.

Stage 2: Red, red, and more red UFOs. Midboss Kogasa was dealt with accordingly, and the thirst for red UFOs continues. Unfortunately, your first death of the run occurred during boss Kogasas first spellcard, which is a shame. I didnt expect that, and Im sure you didnt either. ;/ Still, you cleared the rest of her spellcards with ease, so good job, mate.

Stage 3: Almost to ten lives~ Midboss Ichirin went down easily, and crap, you died again while collecting UFOs. Nothings worse in UFO than dying unexpectedly while trying to accomplish a small goal. >_> Anyway, you captured all of Ichirin and Unzans spells, so nice job!

Stage 4: Wow, there were so many opportunities for you to make UFOs get summoned, but you didnt get greedy and focused on survival, which is the most important aspect of succeeding in UFO. Midboss Nue went down easily, and you captured Murasas first two spellcards, but unfortunately died due to a blunder during her penultimate one. Oh well, you still captured Sinker Ghost!

Stage 5: UFOs of various colors were summoned, and midboss Nazrin went down as easily (not really but) as she did during S1. Then comes along Shou. You captured her first spellcard, and survived her curvy lasers of death. You bombed to her second spellcard since you were about to die, which is good. Im sure you said screw it and bombed to Most Valuable Varja, which is just fine. That things a pain in the ass. And unfortunately, you died to her last spell by what appears to be an accident. Still, great job! S5 seems pretty damn tough on Normal Modo.

Stage 6: You collected so many bombs, getting past midboss Nue and reaching Byakuren with ten lives and ten bombs. Im pretty sure no youkai would want to cross paths with you. You captured her first two spells with ease, but died to Maelstorm. But Maelstorm sucks, so thats okay. Lost a life to Recitation, unfortunately, but captured Air Scroll! As for her Fantastica, you used a bomb to ensure your survival, which is all right. Byakurens beaten, and thats all that matters. Congratulations!

My thoughts: Normal Modo look pretty tough, so props to you for beating it! It seems all of your deaths came from unfortunate blunders, which is not a big deal. You had a ton of lives throughout the game, regardless, and you cleared the game strongly from start to finish.

3rd Place: Balcerzak - 209,575,170 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34151
Stage 1: Got a combination of red and rainbow UFOs, and I see youre collecting UFOs while destroying big ones, too, to help improve your score, so thats really cool. Midboss and boss Nazrin went down easily. Yep. Great S1.

Stage 2: Summoned a green UFO right off the bat, I see, and youre getting those along with red ones. Interesting. You bombed during midboss Kogasa in order to break that UFO that was getting away, and you captured her spell card still, so nice. Unfortunately, you died to Kogasa a couple of times due to small errors, but thats okay.

Stage 3: You died due to greed, but again, thats fine. Youre still trucking along in the game just fine. You dealt with midboss Ichirin and boss Ichirin just fine, capturing all of her and Unzans spells but her last one, which you bombed to. All in all, good S3. Nice UFO output.

Stage 4: Ouch, the greed related deaths here. Yeah, you want to be careful whenever youre in this stage, since after midboss Nue (who you dealt with well, BTW), bullets start flying all over the place. You dont want to go flying all over the stage in order to try and collect UFO, since thats kind of suicide. Aside from dying to Murasas first spell, which is alright, you captured the rest of her spells. Nice job!

Stage 5: More UFO summoning, and more greed related deaths. Baaaaaaal, be careful. You bombed to Nazrin, but no one likes Nazrins crap, anyway, so thats just fine. After Nazrin, though, holy crap. I had no idea what was going on. XD The screen was covered in like, everything. Though, you captured all of Shous spells! Thats just awesome. You bombed to all of her non-spells, but thats okay. Good S5.

Stage 6: Summoned as many UFOs of different kinds as you could, dealt with Nue just fine, and then battled Byakuren. You captured her first two spells, which was good, bombed to Maelstorm, which sucks, and were cruising right along just fine. Honestly, though? I think you couldve captured Recitation instead of bombing to it. And it sucks you lost a life to Fantastica, as well. You were almost dooooone. Oh well, you did fine.

My thoughts: You had a high point value, due to all the small UFOs you collected while destroying big ones. But unfortunately, you didnt summon many blue UFOs during the run. If you did, you wouldve probably got first place. But ah well, you still did quite fine. Just remember to be careful about getting greedy during stages 3, 4, and 5, and youll be fine. Congratulations!

4th Place: Zak - 12,960,260 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34145

Stage 1: You did well here. Midboss Nazrin was dealt with perfectly, and you collected red UFOs as much as you could. Also um, you couldve summoned a blue UFO before boss Nazrin, but thats alright. You beat her perfectly, which is all that matters.

Stage 2: Still summoning red UFOs is good, but you couldve gotten a rainbow one for more pointsthats okay, though, I see youre trying to survive as best you can. You summoned a red UFO during the fight with midboss Kogasa, which honestly wasnt the best idea. You died, too. You then bombed to her. At least you rebounded and captured all of her spells except her last one, which is honestly kind of a pain. Good S2, though.

Stage 3: You died due to a mistake before the midboss fight, then Ichirin and Unzan put an end to your run, essentially. After you made them go away, you made an error and died to a wave a bullets. Oh well, nice try!

My thoughts: Dont be afraid to summon UFOs of different colors. Especially green and rainbow UFOs: green because bombing is awesome, and rainbow ones because if you fill them up completely, they drop an additional UFO which you can use to your advantage. Practice Kogasa and Ichirin, since they seem to trip you up. You told me yourself that you had an earlier run which had you make it up to stage 5, but forgot to save it. :< Ah well, better luck next time with ReimuB!

Proto: 0 -> 8
Fera: 0 -> 6
Balcerzak: 0 -> 4
Zak: 0

ReimuB replays are due on August 12, 2014. Thanks for everyone making it in on time!

Edited August 6, 2014 by ZM©

[Kriemhild]

The spell that Byakuren uses after her last non-spell, with arrowhead streams and lasers restricting your movement while red bubbles and medium bullets are fired, is Devil's Recitation, not Fantastica. Flying Fantastica is actually her final spell, with cards moving around in dynamically changing but visible paths.

Who's a good miko? Who's a good miko? You are! Fk, PC-98 translations had to come out yesterday. Almost captured Fantastica. Don't really care much for scoring, since I wanted to 1cc Hard instead and couldn't fit it in. Still a fun run though, and I got to see my waifu Shinki's card~ Hauuuuuu~

Hauuuuuu~

I never thought I would hear this from Fera. Edited August 6, 2014 by Railgun

[ZemZem]

Oh, my mistake .-. I knew that, but I got the names mixed up.

[Fera]

Hauuuuuauuuuuu, bitches.

That close 1-2-3 though.

[ZemZem]

Edited in corrections. What did you guys think, though?

[Kriemhild]

That close 1-2-3 though.

This somehow sounds like you're trying to make Zak feel really bad :(

Edited in corrections. What did you guys think, though?

I was initially really surprised that I got 1st place, until I saw the bit about Fera reaching Byakuren with 10 lives and 10 bombs, which implies that he was getting a lot of red and green and likely not enough blue.

I haven't actually watched the replays, and I'm unsure of what to expect from Bal since I always thought of him as being more focused on PC-98 and the first generation of Windows games rather than the second generation (MoF onwards). Fera will probably have learned his lesson and would start collecting blue UFOs from next run, so I probably won't be able to beat him again.

ZM has nice interesting analyses, though I find it amusing that he follows almost every mistake or death with something like "it's fine". I do agree, though, it's fine if you screw up and you shouldn't be too upset about it since that run may still turn out to be far better than you'd expect. If I raegquit after all those greed deaths or Vajra fail, I probably wouldn't have won this round with 229M.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Railgun

[Kriemhild]

Lost a life to Recitation, unfortunately, but captured Fantastica! As for her final spell, you used a bomb to ensure your survival, which is all right.

Er, Fantastica IS her final spell. Do you mean he captured Air Scroll, which is the Normal+ only spell before Fantastica where Byakuran moves around in a zigzag pattern, creating bullets in the path?

(Air Scroll is really easy btw, even easier than Omen in Purple Mist imo)

[Fera]

yeah I generally stop being a dumbass around murasa's level because it gets REALLY ridiculous at that point

This somehow sounds like you're trying to make Zak feel really bad :(

I aim to please

Fera will probably have learned his lesson and would start collecting blue UFOs from next run, so I probably won't be able to beat him again.

or just try to play hard modo

I really can't be screwed with scoring after that enormous balderdash of a draft I just wanna get gud

Edited August 6, 2014 by Fera

[ZemZem]

Zak will 1cc this game once. I'm sure of it.

Er, Fantastica IS her final spell. Do you mean he captured Air Scroll, which is the Normal+ only spell before Fantastica where Byakuran moves around in a zigzag pattern, creating bullets in the path?

(Air Scroll is really easy btw, even easier than Omen in Purple Mist imo)

Yes. >_>

sorry it's late

now I have to edit the post again and urgh

though it wasn't bad at all

I just wish I translated my UFO game SO MISTAKES LIKE THESE WOULDN'T HAPPEN

Edited August 6, 2014 by ZM©

[Kriemhild]

I haven't actually watched the replays, and I'm unsure of what to expect from zak since I always thought of him as being more focused on PC-98 and the first generation of Windows games rather than the second generation (MoF onwards).

Sorry, I meant Balcerzak here, not Zak the stealer of waifus. I should really stop calling Balcerzak as zak... >_>

I just wish I translated my UFO game SO MISTAKES LIKE THESE WOULDN'T HAPPEN

This explains a lot.

But wait, you never read the script for UFO in-game? Or the ending? Despite it being your favorite game?

[ZemZem]

This explains a lot.

But wait, you never read the script for UFO in-game? Or the ending? Despite it being your favorite game?

Not yet. I honestly don't mind, though, but perhaps I should.

I forgot how to patch, though.

[Balcerzak]

Edited in corrections. What did you guys think, though?

Pretty solid commentary it looks like, watching the replays myself, I guess I'll toss in a few 2 cents where I can.

Proto

[spoiler=mostly stage one discussion]

Stage 1 first UFO was a little different than how I usually summon it. Since summoning a UFO cancels bullets itself in its immediate vicinity, I like to try to get it to eat up some of the bullets from the two big fairies (of course I failed at this in the run I submitted as well but...) Bigger bullet cancels are almost always good things, but I don't know the finer points of how exactly they stack up into your score, but summoning the UFO asap as you do just seems risky for getting it filled proper without premature detonation as well. Also, IIRC there should be no reason not to summon a rainbow UFO before the midboss. You can go red, rainbow, red, red and still get your desired 4 lives, at least on normal. (Though analyzing the replays in more detail, it seems one fewer small UFO drops from the trio of big fairies right before midboss, so maybe that's the reason?) At any rate, even if it puts off summoning your last red until the first UFO stage too, its worth it imo, because that way you don't lose a small blue UFO due to timing it out without the chance to even eat it to increase the point multiplier because of the awkward timing of its release and the midboss duration. (I only speak so much about stage 1 because I end up playing my stage 1s hundreds of times in an obscene quest for perfection before allowing myself to go on. I waste more time due to ragequits stage one than probably anything else, and it is a terrible habit.) Anyway, you lost another small UFO due to drifting while you were doing the post-midboss UFO, which is unfortunate, and the earlier you eat the little ones, increasing your base, the bigger the dividends should be throughout the game, so I always try to get a good stage 1 for that reason. Like, my Stage 1 I'm 500k up on you (but then I lose by 20 mil in the end, so... that's just my other stages sucking badly... maybe.)

Anyway, nothing else I'd really like to say here other than I'm sure there's more room for rainbow UFO's in your strategy. With a solid 4x multiplier and the extra small UFO drop they're only a net -1 small UFO, and a lot of times you can make use of the non-flashing locked smalls of non-blue colors better that way, (provided you're not eating them during summons already). At least, imo, I can't say I've done any route planning to be sure of this, though, but it just feels so right.

Fera

such resources

much ufos

wow

Zak

Keep practicing, and if you have anything in particular that's giving you trouble, don't hesitate to ask. When it's not an obvious problem with a spellcard, but just general stage mechanics, it can be difficult for me to diagnose just with a single replay example.

3rd Place: Balcerzak - 209,575,170 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34151

Stage 1: Got a combination of red and rainbow UFOs, and I see youre collecting UFOs while destroying big ones, too, to help improve your score, so thats really cool. Midboss and boss Nazrin went down easily. Yep. Great S1.

Stage 2: Summoned a green UFO right off the bat, I see, and youre getting those along with red ones. Interesting. You bombed during midboss Kogasa in order to break that UFO that was getting away, and you captured her spell card still, so nice. Unfortunately, you died to Kogasa a couple of times due to small errors, but thats okay.

Stage 3: You died due to greed, but again, thats fine. Youre still trucking along in the game just fine. You dealt with midboss Ichirin and boss Ichirin just fine, capturing all of her and Unzans spells but her last one, which you bombed to. All in all, good S3. Nice UFO output.

Stage 4: Ouch, the greed related deaths here. Yeah, you want to be careful whenever youre in this stage, since after midboss Nue (who you dealt with well, BTW), bullets start flying all over the place. You dont want to go flying all over the stage in order to try and collect UFO, since thats kind of suicide. Aside from dying to Murasas first spell, which is alright, you captured the rest of her spells. Nice job!

Stage 5: More UFO summoning, and more greed related deaths. Baaaaaaal, be careful. You bombed to Nazrin, but no one likes Nazrins crap, anyway, so thats just fine. After Nazrin, though, holy crap. I had no idea what was going on. XD The screen was covered in like, everything. Though, you captured all of Shous spells! Thats just awesome. You bombed to all of her non-spells, but thats okay. Good S5.

Stage 6: Summoned as many UFOs of different kinds as you could, dealt with Nue just fine, and then battled Byakuren. You captured her first two spells, which was good, bombed to Maelstorm, which sucks, and were cruising right along just fine. Honestly, though? I think you couldve captured Recitation instead of bombing to it. And it sucks you lost a life to Fantastica, as well. You were almost dooooone. Oh well, you did fine.

My thoughts: You had a high point value, due to all the small UFOs you collected while destroying big ones. But unfortunately, you didnt summon many blue UFOs during the run. If you did, you wouldve probably got first place. But ah well, you still did quite fine. Just remember to be careful about getting greedy during stages 3, 4, and 5, and youll be fine. Congratulations!

Re: that green UFO in stage 2. It wasn't planned, to be honest. I'd forgotten that I usually set myself up for a rainbow UFO at stage 2 start, but I collected a second green, and my motto is "if I have 2 ufos already collected, its more worthwhile to finish it and blow it up than it is to try to reorder it and waste small ufos". So, yeah. Also, if you remember to bomb all your bombs before dieing, greens are supposedly better than reds, so that's some counter justification, though honestly, I usually tend to die with bombs in stock, so...

The midboss bomb was because I was sloppy getting my third red ufo locked in in time, but rather than die to greed, I waited an extra rotation, which cut things too close. Of course, then I die to some green shortly after midboss anyway, so lol. I royally derped right at the end of stage 2 forgetting boss was just ahead and summoning a UFO, such a baddie. Add in my terrible deaths, and its easy to see why my stage 2 score sank in comparison to Proto. If I hadn't been as pressed for time to get a completion before deadline, I would have ragequit the run here at Kogasa's Umbrella Train (if not earlier, tbqh).

Stage 3... my low lives going in forced me to focus more on reds than I'd have liked, and only continued my decline compared to Proto. Still, mostly solid execution, like you said. I almost always have trouble with the Old Man's Scolding, I need to practice it more. If I focus on the lasers, I get too distracted to dodge the fists and vice versa. OTL

Stage 4... classic greed. My undoing. I usually blow a bomb to collect some smalls, I should have probably blown another, I always seem to die with them unused anyway, lol. Also that glowing orb thing is Nue? TIL.

Stage 5... bombing Nazrin was panic, but it paid off, right? Pretty much the same with all of Shou's laser non-spells (though one was actually a deathbomb, you can hear the sfx. I'm so proud I pulled it off!) Fuck Shou and her lasers, seriously. That's some fancy ass bullshit right there. I think that was my first ever capture of most valuable vajra. ngl, it felt awesome.

Stage 6... I usually do capture Recitation, but my overconfidence and deaths in 2 of the preceding nonspells demanded I not take risks so I could get the 1cc. I was so pissed about just barely missing the Fantastica capture like you wouldn't believe, though. FML

Anyway,

	Proto	Fera	Me
Stage 1	  4802170	  9428150	  5385300
Stage 2	 28750670	 27346550	 16812420
Stage 3	 68204830	 64155890	 48019600
Stage 4	 99186830	 97431720	 79266960
Stage 5	160411580	144080350	145006030
Stage 6	229289500	215211100	209575170
			
S1 - S0	 4802170	 9428150	 5385300
S2 - S1	23948500	17918400	11427120
S3 - S2	39454160	36809340	31207180
S4 - S3	30982000	33275830	31247360
S5 - S4	61224750	46648630	65739070
S6 - S5	68877920	71130750	64569140 

As is clearly visible, Stage 2 wrecked my score by 12 of the 20 mil total difference, Stage 3 was the other 8 mill, as the Stage 5 and Stage 6 +/- were basically a wash and our Stage 4 were nearly identical.

I haven't actually watched the replays, and I'm unsure of what to expect from Bal since I always thought of him as being more focused on PC-98 and the first generation of Windows games rather than the second generation (MoF onwards). Fera will probably have learned his lesson and would start collecting blue UFOs from next run, so I probably won't be able to beat him again.

You're pretty much accurate with that, to an extent. My goal was to play through the games in release order. I did that, first on easy, then again starting on normal, but I stopped at IN when I was trying to actually 1cc it, and then real-life swooped in and stopped things. So I've definitely had way less experience with "modern era" (MOF-UFO) and "2nd modern era" (TD onward) games. To be honest, don't expect that much from me, I'm pretty bad. Especially if, as hoped, I actually work more on normal instead of easy, as I'll struggle to stay alive instead of focusing on points.

But who knows, tbqh. At least this helps give everyone a god benchmark for score points for the other shot types, sort of, though I guess one could have researched back drafts.

[ZemZem]

Wow, I just thought of something.

Honestly, I don't think I'm gonna do full fledged commentaries anymore, since I'm just going to be saying the same game being played twelve times. I'm just gonna point out some areas I deem interesting and put up the rankings, so yeah.

Glad you all liked my words, though. ^^

[ZemZem]

Today's the deadline, but because my family is full of terrible people who only want to see me suffer, I can't put up results tonight due to the fact I got ganged up upon and can't use the computer. Still, please submit your replays by tonight.

[Fera]

rekt

hope that gets dealt with soon

[ZemZem]

It won't...

I'll find a way to figure this out.

[ZemZem]

Alright, sorry for being a day late. Family problems are the worst.

Undefined Fantastic Object Round 2: ReimuB Results

1st Place: Balcerzak - 302,269,330 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34178

2nd Place: Proto - 273,077,190 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34159

3rd Place: Fera - 259,038,730 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34214

4th Place: Zak - 40,623,000 points

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34216

Balcerzak: 4 -> 12

Proto: 8 -> 14

Fera: 6 -> 10

Zak: 0

No analyses because school started for me today and I don't have much time as is. I will say that ReimuA > ReimuB big time.
MarisaA replays are due on August 19, 2014 (my half-birthday /o\). Keep up the good work, everyone!

Edited August 14, 2014 by ZM©

[Fera]

damn I got wrecked

gz bal

[ZemZem]

Due to unfortunate circumstances, Zak has dropped.

Because of this, I changed the scoring rubric. So first place gets three points, second place gets one, and third place gets none.

Edited August 14, 2014 by ZM©

[Kriemhild]

Oh, snap, Bal beat me this time! I'll need to watch that replay later.

Due to unfortunate circumstances, Zak has dropped.

Because of this, I changed the scoring rubric. So first place gets three points, second place gets one, and third place gets none.

...are you sure this is a good idea? We already finished two rounds and it would be unfair for the scoring mechanic to change suddenly after that. For example, let's say the rankings for the third round go Fera > Bal > Me. In that case, each of the three players would have been first in one game, second in another, and third in the other. Using the previous scoring system, all three players would have 18 points, which is fair, since their performances have been identical (but distributed differently). However, if you use the new scoring system for the third round, then Fera and Bal would both have 13 points, but I would have 14 points. In other words, I would still be leading because the first two rounds now carry more weight than the remaining rounds, due to the scoring system. This is unfair, since all six rounds should have equal weight and thus, should have the same scoring system.

The actual cause of the problem is that the difference between second and third was 2 points previously, but 1 point currently. If you want to change the scoring system, the differences must be kept intact. And besides, it is extremely bad practice to alter the scoring system of a game after several rounds have completed. Don't do it unless there is an absolute need to, and in this case, I don't see any point.

[ZemZem]

Good point.

[Zak Something]

Due to unfortunate circumstances, Zak has dropped.

Because of this, I changed the scoring rubric. So first place gets three points, second place gets one, and third place gets none.

Read the PM, I got talked back into it. >__>

[ZemZem]

Kalas hasn't even been posting here. >_> Goddammit people, make up your minds before you make these decisions. *sighs and edits posts AGAIN*