Are 4 Fire Emblem characters in SSB4 too much?

[BANRYU]

Yeah, what she said.

Also, 'equal representation' isn't so cut-and-dry as the flat quantities of characters that make it into the game for each franchise. I've explained it twice already, so I'm not sure why you're so intent on ignoring those factors, ToH? *shrug* I think I'm done with this conversation, nothing much of value's being discussed anymore. There are enough petty quibbles everywhere else in life.

Edited July 19, 2014 by BANRYU

[Anacybele]

Yeah, and out of those twelve unconfirmed veterans, I'd say Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Ice Climbers, Wario, and Falco are guarantees, and that would bring the count to over 40 even before the remaining newcomers showed up.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Anacybele

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Honestly, if in a future Smash Bros. game they kept Marth, Ike, Robin and Lucina, brought back Roy, and added, like, three more characters (maybe Lyn, Ephraim and Micaiah, because I said so, muwahaha), I'd be the happiest person on the planet. I would, like...die of happiness. I don't think that'd be over-representation, I'd agree that the number of characters FE gets is proportionate to the number of significant characters it has.

Also SSB4's roster will be more than 40 for sure.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Fire Emblem Fan

[Anacybele]

I would too, because Ike and Ephraim are my favorite lords. lol

I wouldn't want to overrepresent FE compared to other franchises though, so I'd be giving more newcomers to Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, etc. too. :P

[Fire Emblem Fan]

If I had to pick more Mario newcomers, they'd be Daisy, Waluigi and Bowser Jr. Daisy is awesome, Waluigi is popular, and Bowser Jr. just makes sense to me. For Pokemon, I have no idea lol, there are just so many to pick from. Dunno about Zelda, either. I guess maybe Vaati and Toon Zelda, maybe Impa and Ghirahim?

[Anacybele]

Well, I'd pick Daisy and Bowser Jr. for certain as far as Mario reps go, but by the time the next Smash starts development, there could be new notable characters in new games. I'd be adding Vaati or Ghirahim for Zelda though, no question about that. lol

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Have checked the current SSB4 character roster and have noticed that I ignored some newcomers like Wii-Fit-Trainer, Pacman and Mii. So yeah, it will be more than 40, probably around 45 characters. However I guess a few characters from SSBB will drop.

Edited July 19, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Ragnell]

Have checked the current SSB4 character roster and have noticed that I ignored some newcomers like Wii-Fit-Trainer, Pacman and Mii. So yeah, it will be more than 40, probably around 45 characters. However I guess a few characters from SSBB will drop.

I'm thinking the roster is most likely 47, possibly 51. With 36 characters confirmed and at least one newcomer left (he said we're "nearing the bottom of the stash" of newcomer videos, which means not the last one and there could be newcomers without videos) that gives us 37+. There are 14 Brawl characters not confirmed yet (including Squirtle and Ivysaur separately), which means they would have to cut 6 characters and add no more than 1 newcomer to get the roster down to 45. Seems likely the Pokemon and Snake will be cut, but beyond that I'm not convinced there are three other people who could be reasonably cut. And I'm hoping we're getting more than 1 new character too, which would mean more cuts if they were to total 45. Hence, I see 47 characters as more feasible, while still only being a reasonable 8 character increase over Brawl. I have my fingers crossed for 51, which would allow 4 more newcomers while not needing any more cuts than Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur, but that might be a long shot.

On the topic of FE newcomers, I'm fine with 4. Especially since Lucina barely counts, as she's essentially a glorified Marth skin. That said, I would be fine with a unique 4th character too. Some series are just better suited to have more characters. FE is a character-based RPG series that has a new cast of 50+ almost every game, which means there's a constant influx of new main protagonists/antagonists. The FE reps are main characters, in Ike's case of multiple games. Other series like Mario really don't have new main characters in that way. Rosalina is the biggest thing in Mario in a while, but even she is just a secret character in one game, and an important NPC in another. This isn't to say she didn't absolutely deserve her spot in SSB4, but it highlights the unique state of FE amongst Nintendo franchises.

Plus Awakening has drastically increased the popularity of the FE series. It's nowhere near Nintendo's flagship series like Mario or Zelda, but in my eyes it has certainly proved itself to stand next to things like Star Fox, which had 3 reps for Brawl. Here, FE is getting 3 reps and an upgraded costume in a game with an appreciably bigger roster. In comparison, Kid Icarus gets at least 2 reps for a series that only has had 3 entries in 25 years, with the only recent entry being solidly outsold by FE13.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Ragnell

[Florete]

I'm thinking the roster is most likely 47, possibly 51.

What about 48, 49, or 50?

[Ragnell]

What about 48, 49, or 50?

Essentially because 47 and 51 (plus the Random slot) are divisible by 4, so they make an even rectangular roster with 4 rows and 12 or 13 columns. Given the E3 demo character select screen, 5 rows seems unlikely, since the character slots would have to each be really tiny and hard to see. Past SSB demo rosters have been exact versions of the real rosters, just with characters obviously missing, therefore this demo should be a good representation of what we'll see in the Wii U version, even as far as what order the characters are in. To make 4 rows work, we'll probably get 12-13 columns. The roster doesn't have to be rectangular, but it seems most likely, although I could see 49 characters + Random to make a roster reminiscent of Melee's (with two slots missing on the bottom corners).

47 characters seems especially likely, since 48 is not only divisible by 4 for the Wii U roster, but also divisible by 6, which matches the SSB4 3DS demo's columns. That is, again, if we assume the 3DS demo roster is indicative of the final character select screen, and the screen scrolls vertically (which it should, since the characters are in different orders, indicating a different organizational scheme than the mostly horizontal Wii U roster). Also, if you resize the character select icons from the Wii U demo to 75% to add a fourth row, a 12 x 4 roster fits pretty much perfectly.

Anyway, none of this is conclusive, since there are so many other possibilities, but I do think an odd character total is very likely, and probably 47, 49, or 51. I would say 47 seems most likely to me, personally, but I'd obviously love more.

[ClassyWolf]

Fire Emblem has at least a large enough cast compared to other Nintendo ip to warrant 4 spots on the roster.

And regarding the newcomers (I might have already said this on the SSB forum?), altough I don't think that much of awakeing, I think Robin is a great newcomer, he seems to have a very interesting moveset that (mostly) fits him/her and is pretty much the awakeing rep I was hoping for.

Lucina on the other hand, I would say a series with 13 games 1 should not get 2, but I find it wierd that Lucina is just an overglorified alt.

I find it even funnier that there were people that said that Lucina shouldn't be in because she was too simmilar to Marth and the ones who wanted her in said she was completely unique from Marth and could have her own moveset (while I didn't want Lucina in I acctually agreed with the latter ones).

And that Lucina makes sense as a clone? I have to dissagree, since she gets almost everything about Marth wrong and the royal family of Ylisse has their own style and the most we can make of Marth in shadow dragon, is that we can guess based on the prolog that he is trained by the Altean knights.

So, I don't think it's wrong for FE to get 4 spots, but I don't know if I would call a clone with barely any differences we yet know of, anything but an overglorifed Marth clone (which she in ssb4 started as)

Edit: another observation I made on other forums is someone who, isn't a fire emblem fan, said something like th efirst impressions with Robin beeing great but seeing Lucina as nothing more than a female version of Marth, just thinking from the point of view of people who haven't played a fire emblem game, luckily Robin is the "real" fe newcomer.

Edited July 19, 2014 by that one person

[BANRYU]

And that Lucina makes sense as a clone? I have to dissagree, since she gets almost everything about Marth wrong and the royal family of Ylisse has their own style and the most we can make of Marth in shadow dragon, is that we can guess based on the prolog that he is trained by the Altean knights.

I don't know if you're specifically referring to when I said that or just in general, but when I said that, it was more from a design perspective than a story perspective (which in Smash, hardly matters if it matters at all).

And yeah in the future, someone will probably replace Lucina and I'm just fine with that too. But for now, I'm happy to see her, clone or no.

[Phoenix Wright]

no, it means the fe fanbase is growing (good), nintendo wants it to grow (good), and that it is becoming popular. i can only be happy, though this may lead to intel. sys. to keep doing things i didn't like about awakening. oh well. comes with the territory of being moderately popular.

however, sword users have too much presence in smash

[That Person's Name]

As Awakening is pretty much the most popular and highest rated game on the 3DS system I don't think 4 characters is too much at all. That and nearly everyone who's played Smash know and adore Marth and Ike by now, the FE characters are more popular than you think.

Also I don't think there's too many sword users in Smash, I mean Nintendo in general has a surprisingly low amount of sword users (only Zelda and Fire Emblem, I mean come on) which could be much worse. How many games have swords in them vs the 5 1/2 swords in Smash? IMO there are not enough swords not too many, swords are a staple weapon in human history and gaming for generations, the fact that so many of the Nintendo series have thought outside of the box and come up with so many different combat styles is impressive. Think how many characters use their fists!! Now THAT'S overrepresented, not swords, if anything. (not that I care which weapons the characters use I mean seriously)

Really I fail to see how 6 (if you count Robin) is too much? They're swords not poleaxes...

Edited July 21, 2014 by That Person's Name

[sunshineYON]

FE obviously doesn't follow any rules about deserving slots. In fact, it has it's own rules. In Melee, FE deserved 0 slots, and it got 2. Think of it as an investment, you reserve slots for FE and it becomes more popular, thereby retroactively justifying it's slot usage. With 4 slots now taken for FE, I can already just feel the interest in FE growing for a lot of FE virgins. If anything, FE deserves more slots!

[Ragnell]

FE obviously doesn't follow any rules about deserving slots. In fact, it has it's own rules. In Melee, FE deserved 0 slots, and it got 2. Think of it as an investment, you reserve slots for FE and it becomes more popular, thereby retroactively justifying it's slot usage. With 4 slots now taken for FE, I can already just feel the interest in FE growing for a lot of FE virgins. If anything, FE deserves more slots!

Well Marth was one of the most-requested characters for Melee overseas, since FE was quite popular in Japan. So I wouldn't say FE deserved 0 slots there. It was surprising to see the characters make it in despite being Japan-only at the time. I'll agree that FE in SSB is an anomaly, though.

[PuffPuff]

Having 4 in isn't really needed when Robin won for being our Awakening representative. Having Lucina in is pointless when Ness, R.O.B, Jigglypuff, Snake, or Metaknight should get that spot. Marth, Ike and Robin are all that we need. As I've mentioned before, having 4 reps was a little too far considering the series' past, but at the same time, we don't need more than three representatives. As mentioned before, my vote was of course, no.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Bimbo

[Shin]

Having 4 in isn't really needed when Robin won for being our Awakening representative. Having Lucina in is pointless when Ness, R.O.B, Jigglypuff, Snake, or Metaknight should get that spot. Marth, Ike and Robin are all that we need. As I've mentioned before, having 4 reps was a little too far considering the series' past, but at the same time, we don't need more than three representatives. As mentioned before, my vote was of course, no.

It's not like the presence of FE characters actively blocks any other series. Whilst I'm a little unsure why they went for Lucina rather than Chrom, it's not like it's particularly overkill. Kirby is a fairly minor franchise and managed 3 reps in Brawl - although there may have been some creator bias present. FE's kinda picked up with FE13, it's not like they gave F-Zero 4 characters, especially since there hasn't been an F-Zero title in roughly a decade.

[BANRYU]

I don't think 3 Kirby characters in Brawl was a result of creator bias; IMO MK and D3's spots are both well-deserved. (The 3 Kirby people having such a huge role in the SSE and Meta Knight being so overpowered, however... well, that's a different story.)

Bimbo do you wanna explain to me how Lucina is denying someone else a spot when she's a clone, ergo, about 5x less time-consuming to make (from an unprofessional estimation) than an original character?

[Alertcircuit]

Whilst I'm a little unsure why they went for Lucina rather than Chrom

Because Lucina took about 0 work to do. She was literally just a Marth costume they gave her own slot. It's very likely FE was to get 3 reps only, and Sakurai just made Lucina her own character for the hell of it.

[BANRYU]

Fan reaction would seem to suggest Lucina was more popular too.

[Anacybele]

I'd also say it's more justifiable to make her a Marth clone than it would be to make Chrom an Ike clone.

[Jave]

It honestly doesn't bother me, as long as adding characters from one series means removing characters from a different series, which is something we have zero evidence of.

Here's a prediction: I think we'll get a fifth FE character if we get DLC. And it won't be Roy or Chrom.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Fan reaction on miiverse suggested me people are happier for Falcon's comeback... lol.

Anyway, I dislike Lucina's addition, that's it. (Male)Robin is cute too.

[PuffPuff]

It's not like the presence of FE characters actively blocks any other series. Whilst I'm a little unsure why they went for Lucina rather than Chrom, it's not like it's particularly overkill. Kirby is a fairly minor franchise and managed 3 reps in Brawl - although there may have been some creator bias present. FE's kinda picked up with FE13, it's not like they gave F-Zero 4 characters, especially since there hasn't been an F-Zero title in roughly a decade.

This is why.

He only added her in because "Chrom wasn't unique enough" and that Lucina is female. Were lacking females is why that he put her in instead of Chrom.

Bimbo do you wanna explain to me how Lucina is denying someone else a spot when she's a clone, ergo, about 5x less time-consuming to make (from an unprofessional estimation) than an original character?

Because Lucina took about 0 work to do. She was literally just a Marth costume they gave her own slot. It's very likely FE was to get 3 reps only, and Sakurai just made Lucina her own character for the hell of it.

I would say to drop Marth for her, but that'll never happen.

So...Lucina has to go since Marth is the star and that there is no way in hell that he is leaving. Why he went lazy for her design, nobody knows.