Units that never turn out well for you

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Really just Nolan. I can't understand why tiers keep calling him crutch, because to me he just has an obsession with gaining nothing but speed and luck levels

Oh, and FE10 Jill. Why the hell did they think that a level 14 Dracoknight with only 24 HP was smart is beyond me...

Jill has shitty base strength and HP, but she has by far the best caps of all females. Imo Jill is even the best unit in FE10. Give her a few levels and a seraph robe and she will be great. And she'll be better than Haar in the long term, because of her better speed and luck. Even mages can't do much on her.

Jill's caps:

Skill: 38 (same like Haar)

Strength: 35

Speed: 35 (only one less than Seraph Knights)

Defense: 36 (!!)

Nolan is not a typical fighter. His growths are very balanced. His strength and HP growth are under average for a fighter, but he has decent defense and very good luck and resistance and speed growth (similar to Jill). He's not that powerful as Boyd, he's more a speedfighter.

Edited July 28, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Quintessence]

Woah, so many screwd RD!Sorens: he's just a couple of levels in order to cap Mag, Skl and Res and BEXP Str, Sp, Lck/Def.

FE7: Wil, Erk, Matthew

FE13: Avatar, srsly lol

[Dandragon]

Woah, so many screwd RD!Sorens: he's just a couple of levels in order to cap Mag, Skl and Res and BEXP Str, Sp, Lck/Def.

Guess my problem with Soren in RD is he never gets speed for me.

FE7: Eliwood. I don't care if it's only -1 under his average. If those are his average stats, I'm not impressed.

SS: Erika. 4 strength at level 20. Fuck you.

PoR: Zihark. He's always getting hit. Always.

RD: Nolan. Being the skill and speed fighter, he barely gets to 17 speed before promotion.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Dandragon

[Logience]

Jill has shitty base strength and HP, but she has by far the best caps of all females. Imo Jill is even the best unit in FE10. Give her a few levels and a seraph robe and she will be great. And she'll be better than Haar in the long term, because of her better speed and luck. Even mages can't do much on her.

Jill's caps:

Skill: 38 (same like Haar)

Strength: 35

Speed: 35 (only one less than Seraph Knights)

Defense: 36 (!!)

Nolan is not a typical fighter. His growths are very balanced. His strength and HP growth are under average for a fighter, but he has decent defense and very good luck and resistance and speed growth (similar to Jill). He's not that powerful as Boyd, he's more a speedfighter.

Except I need to constantly rig the damn growths in order for him to gain an actual level. Most of the time I keep getting single gains, but blah blah PEMN.

Also, Jill is impossible to train. She's stuck in the Dawn Brigade, where EVERYONE needs XP or they'll die, and I already have to sacrifice Zihark and Micaiah for XP distribution, not to mention how Leonardo seems to be conpeting with Ronan for "best example of why bow units suck". There's simply no goddamn room to train her, with Steel Axes weighing her down, Knights having actual speed stats, and those REALLY terrible bases. Maybe if I were to have a save file that had a transferred Jill with maxed HP and Strength...

[CT075]

if you're training more than two DB units you're doing it wrong

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Except I need to constantly rig the damn growths in order for him to gain an actual level. Most of the time I keep getting single gains, but blah blah PEMN.

Also, Jill is impossible to train. She's stuck in the Dawn Brigade, where EVERYONE needs XP or they'll die, and I already have to sacrifice Zihark and Micaiah for XP distribution, not to mention how Leonardo seems to be conpeting with Ronan for "best example of why bow units suck". There's simply no goddamn room to train her, with Steel Axes weighing her down, Knights having actual speed stats, and those REALLY terrible bases. Maybe if I were to have a save file that had a transferred Jill with maxed HP and Strength...

I never had problems to train Jill without PoR boosts even on hard mode. She only needs a forged iron axe to avoid speed penalty and get better accuracy and maybe a seraph robe. Thanks to her good base speed she can double most of the enemies, when she joins. And try to give her a support with earth affinity to reach +30 avoid.

Edited July 28, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Tryhard]

being better than haar is very debatable, but jill isn't terrible

also that

if you're training more than two DB units you're doing it wrong

[Anacybele]

Awakening: Sumia, mostly because everyone still thinks she's better than Cordelia, which simply baffles me.

It baffles me too. But I can't say anything on the matter anymore or else I'll just get accused of having anti-Sumia bias again. >_>

[Havel the Rock]

FE7: Raven and Serra

FE9: Boyd

FE10: Leonardo

FE11: Castor

FE12: Marth and Radd

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

being better than haar is very debatable, but jill isn't terrible

also that

Haar is better than Jill in the beginning, but she has better caps. Her defense cap is only 2 less than Haar and she has 35 speed so she has the possibility to double every boss in the endgame and the auras in the fight against Ashera unlike Haar.

[Jave]

If you've been using Sumia since the beginning, she's definitely better than Cordelia by the time she shows up. I don't know if I always get blessed with her or you guys just have bad luck, but Sumia ALWAYS turns great for me, even without grinding.

Meanwhile Stahl, Miriel and Vaike always get screwed with something for me that prevents me from using them, which particularly sucks in the case of Stahl since I really like the guy.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, it might just be weird luck. Almost every level up Sumia has gotten for me has been only speed. She only gained any strength two or three times out of all the levels I gave her from Peg knight and then Dark Flier. I benched her as soon as I got Cynthia.

And Cordelia, on the other hand, got strength, speed, skill, and defense in almost EVERY level up. She's faster than my Sumia too, and at a similar level. She might have been a bit blessed though.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Anacybele

[Logience]

if you're training more than two DB units you're doing it wrong

Exactly how am I supposed to get through the game without training Edward, Aran and Sothe?

[Jave]

Yeah, it might just be weird luck. Almost every level up Sumia has gotten for me has been only speed. She only gained any strength two or three times out of all the levels I gave her from Peg knight and then Dark Flier. I benched her as soon as I got Cynthia.

And Cordelia, on the other hand, got strength, speed, skill, and defense in almost EVERY level up. She's faster than my Sumia too, and at a similar level. She might have been a bit blessed though.

That's definitely bad luck if you only got Speed, considering Sumia has higher growths than Cordelia in Skl, Spd, Lck and Res.

[Oshimos]

The only two who fail me every playthrough I try and use them are Guy and Forde. There's only so much you can do with no strength.

[Draco]

wait you're not supposed to train more than 2 DB chars?

On my first RD playthrough, I used Eddie (HELLA BLESSED), Leonardo (Now THIS was a mistake), Micaiah (Never got speed :I), and Sothe (He actually turned out mostly fine)

Laura I WANTED to use, but... she got benched in about 3 chapters after being recruited, sucky level ups... I tried using Nolan too, but his level ups were terrible. He died in the dark desert chapter with the thunder mage and where Jill, Zihark, etc were recruited. I used the same people on the 2nd playthrough, but I added Nolan.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Comatose

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

wait you're not supposed to train more than 2 DB chars?

On my first RD playthrough, I used Eddie (HELLA BLESSED), Leonardo (Now THIS was a mistake), Micaiah (Never got speed :I), and Sothe (He actually turned out mostly fine)

Laura I WANTED to use, but... she got benched in about 3 chapters after being recruited, sucky level ups... I tried using Nolan too, but his level ups were terrible. He died in the dark desert chapter with the thunder mage and where Jill, Zihark, etc were recruited. I used the same people on the 2nd playthrough, but I added Nolan.

I think he was talking about hard mode, because you got much less bexp and regular exp than on easy/normal. So it's almost impossible to train everyone of Micaiah's party. But even on hard mode you can train more than two DB members. So this statement was a little bit exaggeratted.

Edited July 28, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Shadow Mir]

FE7: Guy, Guy, Guy. There's only so much you can do if you refuse to get strength, even in a game as easy as FE7.

FE8: No one particularly comes to mind as a consistent disappointment to me.

FE9: Oscar. He always seems to get screwed in one way or another.

FE10: Can't think of anyone atm.

[Nobody]

Exactly how am I supposed to get through the game without training Edward, Aran and Sothe?

Sothe doesn't count as "train", because he's not the kind of unit that needs to be trained. You have the BK, volug, nailah, taurineo and zihark, that are already good enough and don't have to be trained to work. Then you have the other units, that need training. Jill is by far the best between those, since she flies and has great growths. She tops every tier list in RD. Give her a robe and you will get it. You're basically calling one of the best units of the game "unusable"

[PKL]

FE6: Rutger (never gets str), Roy (never gets...well, anything), Shin (spd cursed everytime I used him), Lilina (never proc'd spd until i benched her), Raigh (never procs much of anything), Saul (my Sauls are barely better than base Saul when they promote, that's how freaking bad my sauls are, shame because I like him)

FE7: Florina (will u please get anything other than shin levels someday for me?), Kent (shin levels gallore)

FE8: Everyone is a god here.

FE9: Ike, Ilyana

FE10: Nolan (Shin deluxe levels all the freaking time), Leonardo (same as Nolan), Zihark (base str + promo gain by Tier 3, oh the joy), Ilyana (unless I deliberately go out of my way to make her good by resetting a .99 level at the start of a chapter, she never gets good levels normally).

FE11: Gordin (to be expected), Catria, Ogma

FE12: Rody, Sirius (im still shocked everyone else's Siriuses seem to get all the perfect levels), Malicia

FE13: Sully (Shin levels all the time, just awful in general I cant believe ppl think she's better than Stahl), Sumia (likes not getting str or def, her growths are a bit on the low side there so its understandable), Henry/Ricken (aside from 1 special case, these guys never get good spd for me, at least Ricken has huge mag most of the time for rescue but Henry is just benchworthy), Miriel (27 hp 7 def in Chapter 21 as a Sage, NEVER FORGET)

[Shadow Mir]

FE6: Rutger (never gets str), Roy (never gets...well, anything), Shin (spd cursed everytime I used him), Lilina (never proc'd spd until i benched her), Raigh (never procs much of anything), Saul (my Sauls are barely better than base Saul when they promote, that's how freaking bad my sauls are, shame because I like him)

FE7: Florina (will u please get anything other than shin levels someday for me?), Kent (shin levels gallore)

FE8: Everyone is a god here.

FE9: Ike, Ilyana

FE10: Nolan (Shin deluxe levels all the freaking time), Leonardo (same as Nolan), Zihark (base str + promo gain by Tier 3, oh the joy), Ilyana (unless I deliberately go out of my way to make her good by resetting a .99 level at the start of a chapter, she never gets good levels normally).

FE11: Gordin (to be expected), Catria, Ogma

FE12: Rody, Sirius (im still shocked everyone else's Siriuses seem to get all the perfect levels), Malicia

FE13: Sully (Shin levels all the time, just awful in general I cant believe ppl think she's better than Stahl), Sumia (likes not getting str or def, her growths are a bit on the low side there so its understandable), Henry/Ricken (aside from 1 special case, these guys never get good spd for me, at least Ricken has huge mag most of the time for rescue but Henry is just benchworthy), Miriel (27 hp 7 def in Chapter 21 as a Sage, NEVER FORGET)

The Shin Deluxe level is what? I know it's Skill and Luck, but what other stat does it have??

[Florete]

Well, she is...

Exactly my point.

It baffles me too. But I can't say anything on the matter anymore or else I'll just get accused of having anti-Sumia bias again. >_>

Yeah, when I argued against her I was thrown in with "Cordelia fanboys." It's like, wtf?

If you've been using Sumia since the beginning, she's definitely better than Cordelia by the time she shows up. I don't know if I always get blessed with her or you guys just have bad luck, but Sumia ALWAYS turns great for me, even without grinding.

I've used Sumia since the beginning multiple times. She never turns out as good as Cordelia. And I'm pretty sure I'm not even getting RNG screwed, looking at her growths.

That's definitely bad luck if you only got Speed, considering Sumia has higher growths than Cordelia in Skl, Spd, Lck and Res.

Yeah, check out those useful stats (<- that's sarcasm).

Cordelia having +15% growths in HP, Str, and Def while also having enough Spd to double and enough in the other stats to not matter alongside a better support pool with only a few less chapters to play in but still more than half the game left sounds like being a better unit to me. And in practice, she is.

The absolute only way I can see Sumia being better is in normal mode because it's so easy that units are better pretty much for being around longer. I very much regretted using her in my Lunatic classic run because she was eventually too frail to live and too weak to kill; Cordelia would have performed much better.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I agree with you, Red Fox.

Sumia has better growths in magic, res, and speed, but Cordelia has better strength and defense, yet still has a good speed growth with that. Sumia would make a better Dark Flier, obviously, but yeah. Sumia can't even make use of her better magic stat until she promotes or reclasses, whereas Cordelia's strength growth benefits her right away since she starts with a physical weapon. And more units use physical weapons than magic ones, so her better defense again benefits her more than Sumia's better res.

Not saying Sumia is terrible or anything like I used to, but...yeah.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Anacybele

[Xator Nova]

Isn't the general consensus that Sumia is considerably worse than Cordelia in Lunatic?

On-topic:

FE9!Ike never turns out to me as godly as other people make him to be.

[Elieson]

Kent just Can't.

Forde is a pansy.

Sully is like an average Roy..never good enough to actually contribute.