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Jill vs. Haar  

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  1. 1. Who's better?



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I don't want to talk much about managing bexp., because it doesn't have to do much with this topic.

I wait for the endgame, because it's almost impossible to bring all units to max level in the endgame. My target is to max out many stats as possible with my endgame team.

I only use bexp. earlier in the game, if an unit has at least 3 stats capped and >=90 exp. If an unit has capped all the important stats, I'll promote it as early as possible with the masterseal to save bexp.

This stategy always worked for me very well I won't change it in the future.

Generally speaking, the best use of BEXP for that kind of thing is once a unit has capped enough stats so that their growths total drop below 300%. For example, Haar has a growth total of 335%. If he caps skill (70%), he can't get any more skill, so the growth is effectively 0. His growth total is then 265%, so on average he will get less than 3 stats a level so BEXP levels are better on average. Haar caps skill on average at level 14; because of his availability, he can fill out the rest of his tier 2 levels by gaining ~90 exp per maps and getting cheap BEXP topups. This will put him in a much better position for capping in tier 3.

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Generally speaking, the best use of BEXP for that kind of thing is once a unit has capped enough stats so that their growths total drop below 300%. For example, Haar has a growth total of 335%. If he caps skill (70%), he can't get any more skill, so the growth is effectively 0. His growth total is then 265%, so on average he will get less than 3 stats a level so BEXP levels are better on average. Haar caps skill on average at level 14; because of his availability, he can fill out the rest of his tier 2 levels by gaining ~90 exp per maps and getting cheap BEXP topups. This will put him in a much better position for capping in tier 3.

This is pretty much the way I do.

If Haar has maxed strength, skill and defense, I'll give him bexp., if he's close to a level up to max his HP and speed.

The general problem is that his speed growth leaves much to be desired. Before the endgame he's mostly level 7-8 with a speed of 27, which is not enough in the endgame on HM for me. So I would have to invest in some bexp. levels at this point already and I haven't much of it. On lower difficulties, it wouldn't be a big deal.

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It's not necessary to wait that long. If you BEXP him once he caps skill, he'll cap defense and strength along the way and should also cap HP and speed. He'll then have 28 speed at 20/8, 30 if you give him a Wing. Even without one he should reach it in time, the tricky stats to cap are res and magic.

If Haar is struggling to get past 20/8 for endgame, how is Jill getting into the teens to cap speed and luck, and still have levels to work on her defense and skill?

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Jill usually maxes out every stat except for skill and defense very early (level 8-10). So I only need give her very few bexp. levels (1-2) to fix the other stats.

For example if Jill is level 10 3rd tier and only needs 5 points in skill and 5 points in defense to cap them, I don't have to give her any bexp., because it's guaranteed that she gets skill and/or defense in her level ups. In my latest run she already capped everything in level 18.

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This was already discussed in another FE10 thread by CR and Chiki.

What are Jill's unique contributions in Part 1?

- Grants a 3 turn clear in 1-6 Stage 1, where the standard is 4 turns.

She misses the chapter that'd love her most, 1-8. And 1-E is 5 turnable almost as a standard so Jill's not doing anything special here because P1 is all about Sothe, sadly.

For Part 3?

- I recall she only shaves a turn in 3-6 and 3-12 which bring up a total of 3 turns.

Not counting 3-13 because Laura easily 1 turns it with Adept and Purge. Regarding other chapters, other units replicate her TC. Other combinations do pretty much the same Jill does, even in drafts.

What units compete with her? None for 1-6-1 and maybe 3-6 but I recall even Tauroneo+DBer 2 turns 3-12.

What are Haar's unique contributions in Part 2?

- The easiest way to 1 turn 2-E.

Here Haar competes with strategies such as Elincia with Amiti via BEXP lv ups, Nealuchi with S rank (2 turns), Marcia+Brom (1 turn), Marcia+Neph (1 turn iirc with so much Str, don't remember exactly) or Marcia+Calill (1 turn rigging 9%~ Elthunder crt or a safe 2 turn clear via regular combat), or a Calill solo (3 turn clear via Meteor).

For P3?

- Haar owns 3-3, he gives a 4 or 5 turn iirc (5 because unlikely to get Haar and Titania/Oscar in draft scenario) where the regular is 7.

- Haar 5 turns 3-4 where regular is 7 as well, however you can pull a 6 turn with Titania/Oscar, Ike and Ranulf.

What I mean is that even with Transfers, Jill's TC is nowhere as unique as Haar's. Having Haar saves you so many resources, and on top of that, saves you unit slots that other units may use to for unique contributions in chapters Jill isn't playable.

What amazing units compete with Haar for said chapters? None. For other chapters:

3-2: pretty much any combination of units + Titania/Oscar.

3-5: Sol Bow Oscar, Capped Str Titania + Short Axe, Soren, Ilyana, Rolf, Shinon.

3-8: Janaff, Ulki, Titania, Oscar, Boyd+Ilyana/Soren.

3-10: see above except Boyd+Archsage.

3-11: bunch of fliers

People just get amazed of Jill's flight and awesomeness among "crappy" units the DB have and try to overshadow Haar because he is in a pool of strong units.

I'm not even going to get into the problems of your "analysis," because you've completely misunderstood the debate between me and CR. The debate was about drafts.

In a pure LTC setting, Jill has a significant advantage over Haar because she's getting the Boots (due to her being around at the optimal time). Her part 4 is much better.

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I'm not even going to get into the problems of your "analysis," because you've completely misunderstood the debate between me and CR. The debate was about drafts.

Yes, I know it was about drafts. And you know everything I say is based on drafting experience.

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I like Marcia. I think both Haar and Jill were nerfed in this game or something because neither of them really did stand out compared to some of the other characters.

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I think both Haar and Jill were nerfed in this game or something because neither of them really did stand out compared to some of the other characters.

what the heck are you smoking

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what the heck are you smoking

I'm starting to believe all the accounts with FE9-FE10 names (Brom, Ashera, etc.) are one person deliberately trolling.

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what the heck are you smoking

??? lol what? I don't smoke, I'm being serious, Jill and Haar sucked in my game, Marcia was one of my mvps. Blame the RNG, I have nothing to do with their stats.

I'm starting to believe all the accounts with FE9-FE10 names (Brom, Ashera, etc.) are one person deliberately trolling.

The only troll around here is you...following me around saying I'm a troll? Get a life kid. I don't know who Ashera is but I'm sure a simple IP check from a mod would disprove your ignorant claims.

Edited by Red Fox of Fire

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??? lol what? I don't smoke, I'm being serious, Jill and Haar sucked in my game, Marcia was one of my mvps. Blame the RNG, I have nothing to do with their stats.

so a quick word of advice: if you make a claim about a character's quality is around SF, the default interpretation is that you're making a claim about the general case. if whatever you say is based off your personal experience, then you should make that clear.

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I think both have their uses but objectively speaking, Haar is the guy who comes out on top. Reasons for this are obvious. All he needs is a speedwing and hes pretty much golden. He likes Nullify but itsnt necessary. Jill needs love to get going.

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so a quick word of advice: if you make a claim about a character's quality is around SF, the default interpretation is that you're making a claim about the general case. if whatever you say is based off your personal experience, then you should make that clear.

Thanks for the advice but what part of "I like Marcia" was not personal experience? I voted Both are equal because both were pretty useless in my game. I used Jill in Path of Radiance so I was kind of sad she didn't stand out when I played Radiant Dawn.

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Thanks for the advice but what part of "I like Marcia" was not personal experience?

i wasn't focusing on your sentence on marcia, which is why i didn't quote it.

Edited by dondon151

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JILL ♥ well Haar is a good guy but he isn't as good as Jill for one reason, I never tried to play with him in path of radiance cause he came so late, which is why I didn't paid much attention to him in radiant dawn at first. but Jill with Urvan is one hell of a guy ;)

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