Would you say SerenesForest's tastes in characters greatly differs from the rest of the fandom.

[Waifu Severa]

Can i be called the top of Severa fanboy xD

[Loki Laufeyson]

I'm pretty much president of the Henry fandom and that's fine with me.

But im the treasurer!

[Skynstein]

I share my waifu with Sorin.

[Roivann]

I like Sully I guess

[Numot]

In the Severa/Kjelle supports Severa insists that kjelle clean up her act and 'behave like a proper lady', to which kjelle comments that 'girls care about the dumbest things sometimes'. I never got the impression that Kjelle wanted to be a man or had low confidence as a woman. And she doesn't care if people try to tell her to be a proper woman.

[Roivann]

In the Severa/Kjelle supports Severa insists that kjelle clean up her act and 'behave like a proper lady', to which kjelle comments that 'girls care about the dumbest things sometimes'. I never got the impression that Kjelle wanted to be a man or had low confidence as a woman. And she doesn't care if people try to tell her to be a proper woman.

By looking at her other supports, we can see that she wants to be better than men, and women as well, not to be a man. It's also a huge leap from having "low confidence as a woman" (which I still believe to be not true. If she lacked confidence, why would she be so adamant in her more, for lack of a better word, masculine tendencies?) to wanting to be a man.

[Folt]

I like many characters, mostly the Plegian ones in terms of first-gen (except Tharja), but I like Laurent and Owain the most from the second gens.

[Buttocksinator]

By looking at her other supports, we can see that she wants to be better than men, and women as well, not to be a man. It's also a huge leap from having "low confidence as a woman" (which I still believe to be not true. If she lacked confidence, why would she be so adamant in her more, for lack of a better word, masculine tendencies?) to wanting to be a man.

Take a look at Cordelia for a moment, she is strong, independent, confident in her own abilities, not to mention she runs circles around everyone else in the army man and woman alike. To my knowledge she doesn't ever bring up her sex in regards to this, like at all. She doesn't need too, because she is a badass and knows it. In startling contrast we have Sully, who takes every available opportunity to whine about how "oh women can fight just as well as men" and "oh i'm ever so confident in myself even though my insecurity implies otherwise".

It's not that she wants to be a man (which as I have said is not something I necessarily believe) that I don't like her, it's because she won't shut up. She is apparently held up as some kind of confident, independent, feminist idol as she receives gifts from other women in her supports. But anytime sex is brought up she gets really aggressive and defensive. It seems insecure to me and implies a lack of confidence in herself as a woman. It's the same reason I hate Ricken, from the moment he came on screen he started going on about how he wasn't a child, but who else but a child would argue that point? I don't like the way her character is written, not her as a person. Big difference.

[Crooks]

It's utterly insulting to call Sully's character "penis envy". When a woman acts in a conventionally masculine manner, more often than not it's just because that's who she is. There's no actual evidence of her ever saying she wanted to be a man.

Also, remember that she gets pissed when people don't consider her a lady due to her masculinity, either. It's been a while, but Virion's support immediately comes to mind, as you mentioned in your edit, Ricken's support, and she and Libra have some interesting conversations worth-reading, her being a more masculine female (doesn't she even use ore?) and Libra being a feminine male. There's some more of that, but I sort of forget.

Take a look at Cordelia for a moment, she is strong, independent, confident in her own abilities, not to mention she runs circles around everyone else in the army man and woman alike. To my knowledge she doesn't ever bring up her sex in regards to this, like at all. She doesn't need too, because she is a badass and knows it. In startling contrast we have Sully, who takes every available opportunity to whine about how "oh women can fight just as well as men" and "oh i'm ever so confident in myself even though my insecurity implies otherwise".

Cordelia and Sully are vastly different. Cordelia is "perfect" at most things she does, sex was never an issue for her. Not to mention, her peers were always also women, fellow pegasus knights. She didn't have to worry about being surpassed by a man in her position, because male pegasus knights don't exist (in FE13). What she was worried about because she is "perfect" was that she was hated and looked down upon by her peers.

Sully, as we know, is a Ylissean knight. For all we know, most of Sully's peers were probably men. The other examples of knights we see are men. Even with generic enemies from other armies -- the only women we see are those in gender-specific classes. This is obviously going to have a large effect on Sully, where gender is going to bother her a lot, as a woman in a most-likely male-dominated field.

Of course, a lot of this is assumption on my part, because I don't think it's directly said, but their backgrounds are very different -- they wouldn't be bothered by the same things.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Crooks

[Buttocksinator]

Cordelia and Sully are vastly different. Cordelia is "perfect" at most things she does, sex was never an issue for her. Not to mention, her peers were always also women, fellow pegasus knights. She didn't have to worry about being surpassed by a man in her position, because male pegasus knights don't exist (in FE13). What she was worried about because she is "perfect" was that she was hated and looked down upon by her peers.

Sully, as we know, is a Ylissean knight. For all we know, most of Sully's peers were probably men. The other examples of knights we see are men. Even with generic enemies from other armies -- the only women we see are those in gender-specific classes. This is obviously going to have a large effect on Sully, where gender is going to bother her a lot, as a woman in a most-likely male-dominated field.

Of course, a lot of this is assumption on my part, because I don't think it's directly said, but their backgrounds are very different -- they wouldn't be bothered by the same things.

While their backgrounds are different, the effect it had on them as characters is irrelevant. regardless of their past experiences, they are in the same boat during the course of the game. Both of these women are fighting and interacting with the same people. The difference is while Cordelia's interactions with them show her as confident and independent, Sully comes across as crude and insecure. Your argument about peer groups is also a matter of debate. I for one would think that Cordelia, used to being teased and taunted by her peers in a female environment, would have much more cause than Sully to feel bothered by the presence of physically superior bodies in the army than someone who has been working with them since the day she starting fighting. Explaining why Sully is insecure doesn't change the fact that she is insecure or the way that I feel about her as a character.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Buttocksinator

[Czar_Yoshi]

Sully, as we know, is a Ylissean knight. For all we know, most of Sully's peers were probably men. The other examples of knights we see are men. Even with generic enemies from other armies -- the only women we see are those in gender-specific classes. This is obviously going to have a large effect on Sully, where gender is going to bother her a lot, as a woman in a most-likely male-dominated field.

Chrom's army is pretty equal-opportunity, I see roughly equal numbers of dudes and gals. Ylisse doesn't seem to have an army proper bar the Pegasus Knights (nevermind their competence level) who are an all-female organization, so I'd say Sully is actually on the more populated side. There's a good reason for this in-game, too- Ylisse has just finished fighting another brutal war, and if they did have conventionally male ranks then, they're 99% dead now.

As for enemy genders, there are plenty of female Sages (though the difference can be hard to spot) and several of the Deadlords are female as well.

[Anacybele]

Wasn't Sully born into a family of knights though? And doesn't she have only brothers?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Dunno, I don't like Sully enough to bother reading most of her supports.

If she does, though, then wouldn't she be comparing herself to a minority? That only suggests she has even bigger issues with men.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Anacybele]

I've only seen one of her supports, but I heard that in others, she mentions having been born into a family of knights and that she has brothers.

[NoNameAtAll]

I'm like the only proponent of the Umad King of Plegia. And I'm fine with that.

[Crooks]

Blah, I'm too tired to quote.
Ahh, good points, I didn't see it from that perspective... Hm. Maybe Sully was written to try and handle sexism issues similar to those women deal with in real life, but it doesn't fit in with the world building? So it just comes off as weird?
Then I agree, it's an issue of her own lack of self-confidence and issues, but probably not because of her facing sexism.
And I don't know about brothers, but I think her being born into a family of knights is in her supports with Vaike?

Edited August 18, 2014 by Crooks

[Anacybele]

It's not in that one. That's the one Sully support I did get and she didn't talk about her family there.

[Crooks]

Sully: Whoa there, lady! All right, all right! I get the picture! See, in my house, I was the youngest of three—I had two older brothers. And I learned that sometimes nothing says it better than a good, solid expletive. ...Yeah. Blame it on my damned brothers—the foul-mouthed sons-a-guns!

Miriel: Fascinating. Which raises another, equally intriguing, question: these brothers of yours—they do not serve in the Ylissean Knights.

Sully: Er...right.

Miriel: It is my understanding that, by and large, all highborn sons of Ylisse enter the order. Why did they not do so? Were they perhaps afflicted by some physical handicap?

---

Miriel: Indeed not. Your brothers, they were...

Sully: Uh-huh. They served as knights, all right. But one day, they went to help out a village that was being hassled by bandits... And they never came back...

Miriel: I apologize for forcing you to recall such painful memories. Curiosity and a thirst for knowledge are no excuse for insensitivity.

Sully: Aw, forget it. It's all right. Seriously. I should've never gotten my smallclothes in a twist about it. How could you have known, right?

Miriel: You're very kind.

Sully: By the by, I've been thinking more about how I talk—y'know, all "masculine"? I think it's more than just listening to my brothers when I was little. Maybe it's got something to do with me trying to carry on their legacy. I wanted to honor their memory by being the roughest, toughest knight out there... And somewhere along the line, I ended up talking like one too!

Sully mentions her two brothers in her Harvest Scramble conversation with Miriel, it turns out.

TD;LR Sully had two brothers, also knights, who died trying to take care of some bandits, and it's likely that's why Sully talks in a masculine way, to honor them.

Also, her being born into a long family line of knights thing is in her A-rank support with Vaike.

Also, a little more on topic, I think serenesforest probably has some different tastes because here, they focus more on stats and performance as a unit than most other places. Also, Henry is really popular everywhere else I go (easily one of the most popular units), but I never really see people discuss him here. Though I haven't been here for long, so that's going to effect how I view things.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Crooks

[Anacybele]

Huh, I don't remember the family bit in the Vaike x Sully support. I guess it just completely slipped my mind...

[shadowofchaos]

I guess SF is just content on other people's tastes?

That would be for most people.

The rabid fans aren't as vocal here, because they usually get torn apart when they try to equate it to gameplay.

Toxic fans here usually leave.

Like the Chrom x FeMU fangirl that joined the forums via my "suggestion" after spamming Sumia hate on all my videos.

Good riddance.

Go and stay go.

Any "toxic" fans here aren't really toxic. They just have really bad social skills.

And a little stubborness when it comes to listening and taking criticism.

I'm like the only proponent of the Umad King of Plegia. And I'm fine with that.

Who says you're the only one who supports the reformed (story-wise) troll king?

Edited August 18, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

Any "toxic" fans here aren't really toxic. They just have really bad social skills.

And a little stubborness when it comes to listening and taking criticism.

Admittedly, I'm one of these people. Asperger's syndrome does that to you...

But I'm slowly getting better. Just saying so before someone else comes in and tries to bait me with a snarky comment. :P

[Loki Laufeyson]

That would be for most people.

The rabid fans aren't as vocal here, because they usually get torn apart when they try to equate it to gameplay.

Toxic fans here usually leave.

Like the Chrom x FeMU fangirl that joined the forums via my "suggestion" after spamming Sumia hate on all my videos.

Good riddance.

Go and stay go.

Any "toxic" fans here aren't really toxic. They just have really bad social skills.

And a little stubborness when it comes to listening and taking criticism.

Who says you're the only one who supports the reformed (story-wise) troll king?

Or they just completely misunderstand how a character is presented. *eyeballs the Sully argument* Cough...

I think id like Gangrel more if he had more supports. His lack of a support pool is why i dont use him tbh. (cuz really, anyone down with taking out Emmeryn is ok in my book. *folds arms*

[Thor Odinson]

I believe Sully uses boku.

There's a difference between abilities and gender performance. What Sully's noticing more isn't her prowess in battle, but rather her attitude and mannerisms that are different. You can be masculine-presenting yet a piece of shit when it comes to a fight, or very feminine yet the most kickass fighter there is. I'm a decent enough fighter. I bet there's ladies out there who likes pretty dresses and have great lipstick game who can totally kick my ass. My masculinity, for lack of a better word, is not related to my fighting skills. It is, however, somewhat alienating when you get called a guy (been there often) both due to my mannerisms and way of dress or keeps on being told that as a woman I have to be polite and talk softly and not swear etc etc it's hard to put into words but I've been there and it's not about fighting prowess at all it's about presentation like I don't know if I made it clear enough english is a difficult language for me to articulate in but here you go.

Although, Japanese Sully is a bit of a trainwreck and does bring up the woman thing a lot more in my translations back in the day. The localisation cleaned up her character a lot and cut down on a lot of that crap, but they may have missed spots and it's been a while since i read the supports. English Sully is my favorite character, but Japanese Sully does annoy me.

There's also the factor of inconsistent worldbuilding. Sully's character could be meant to be a response to more RL attitudes towards women which is why I find her relatable despite everything.

I do think FE:A's writing is overall a giant trainwreck so that's a thing

[Buttocksinator]

Or they just completely misunderstand how a character is presented. *eyeballs the Sully argument* Cough...

Please do not insult my intelligence. I came to my conclusion about Sully because I understand things differently than you do, not because I do not understand them at all. If I perceive a character differently than it was intended to be perceived the fault is on the writer, not the viewer. If you've an argument to make I'd love to hear it, but simply saying I've got no idea what i'm talking about won't make my points any less valid.

[Jedi]

My favorite characters in Awakening happen to be Say'ri, Sully, Miriel, Lon'qu and Nah

You won't find an odder group of favorites. (Plus like almost every other Fe I found something to like about just about every character)