Web tool for planning lineage.

[emmagine]

Figuring out how to get what skills on to the children gave me headaches. I wrote this page for myself, but all are of course welcome to use it. You can select what skills you are interested in, and what classes, and it will help you figure out who to have hook up with whom.

Here is the link.

http://irodemine.com/EMS/fe1.php

You can set your pairings now, and link to the url result to show off your pairings, or just book mark it so you remember who you were going to have do who.

Edited August 17, 2014 by emmagine

[NinjaMonkey]

Why did you put Paragon/Aggressor/Rally Love/Bonds etc in your list of skills? They are DLC-only skills, and can't be passed down. Also, since you aren't supporting My Unit, why did you include the skills that are specific to them (Ignis, Veteran, etc)?

[emmagine]

It wasn't initially my intention to not support the myunit character.

selecting a skill will also show the class for the children, in case someone doesn't know what class yields it.

Every skill I could find in the game is on the list. I didn't want them to release more DLC later, and have to recode something because of whatever they release.


Lastly, it's pulling the skills from a mysql database. My end goal is to have it so you can link to your build, and what someone would have to do in order to get there.

[Czar_Yoshi]

So basically it checks all the units for whether they have the selected skill/class?

[emmagine]

It will do a few things, including but not limited to that.




You start by checking the skills / classes you care about (IE: you would use). then hit the submit button.

Once you do that it brings up a new page, where each character displays if they have the skill or class you checked. you can drag and drop the parents together, to create a nice lineage page, which can be linked on forum. Eventually, you'll be able to toggle what skills you want to pass to the children, and what active skills they have.

The last page is still being worked on. But I wanted to get a feel of what people think of the first two steps before I continue, in case there is something catastrophically wrong.

Edited August 17, 2014 by emmagine

[LTwerewolf]

Is there any way you could have a section that gives suggestion of pairings based on overlap and highest number of skills passed/obtained by the child?

[emmagine]

Well, this wouldn't be too difficult to do, but really, how valuable would that be?

I mean, if one pairing would give you 4 classes you'd never use, and 16 possible skills that are equally useless, but another would avoid wasting a galeforce, wouldn't you rather have the galeforce?

That's why I wrote it the way I did. (please note that father's classes don't seem to be displaying properly at the moment, so that's really important to fix. Don't want to miss out on dark fliers.).

The idea is though, that you'd check the skills you want to use, and then you'd only see those that you deem valuable. It is easy to see which ones the father has that the child and mother do not... if you only have a dozen checked. Give it a shot. If you think something needs to be changed, I perhaps don't understand your goal.

Edited August 17, 2014 by emmagine

[LTwerewolf]

Suggestions based on avoiding redundancy would be pretty useful imo. Also when I pair Panne, Nothing shows up in Yarne's section.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I'd add a button on the first page to check/uncheck all skills/classes in case someone is more interested in not using one or two bad classes than only using one or two good ones.

[emmagine]

I'll look in to the panne bug, and that's a good idea for the "check all" option, though I certainly think there are alot more useless skills than ones you'd be worried about. Perhaps a "check all commonly liked" button?

If I added such a button, what skills would want to be left out of the auto check? or perhaps a list of those that would want to be checked for sure?

[Airship Canon]

...is this an attempt at creating AMR for this game?

If so that could be pretty interesting, but a huge endeavor. ESPECIALLY with some abstract concepts.

[emmagine]

I uploaded a beta version of the page by accident. it seems to still be working, but watch for bugs :/

what do you mean "AMR" ?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ask Mr. Robot.

[emmagine]

Oh good heavens no. You're talking to someone that has never read a walkthrough for a game in my life. Our guild in wow has done all major content without looking anything up first. I believe that ruins the fun of a game. "look ma', I can read instructions!"

No, this tool is to help you plan what you want yourself, and make it easier to graphically show other people what you mean.

I've played through a couple times where I screwed myself out of a galeforce, (once two of them). Not to mention a variety of less critical but uber skills. This is to help you make your plans for your next playthrough.

[Airship Canon]

Ask Mr. Robot, the (in)famous character optimization utility for WoW.

... it parses a lot of complex calculations and returns optimal setups for characters.

...In theory one could exist for FE:A.

In practice, FE:A is slightly more abstract. [see things like optimal use of deployed pairings vs amount of galeforce units, deployment limits, etc.]

A thought to it, you'd need skill weighting, stat weighting... MU would need to be included somewhere.

[LTwerewolf]

For MU, you can always put in a spot at the beginning selecting who you're marrying MU to, and then removing them from the equation. Since it's based on giving skills, stats, and classes, you can separate MU from the rest. Would that make it easier?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yeah, I think an AMR for Awakening is possible. Most of those limitations could be overcome with a combination of doing stuff in the right order and a weighted RNG. It would assume a goal of Secret Apo with No Holds Barred (so 20 deployment and no banned skills, and it's almost impossible to bring down a team with one or two bad pairings). Possible inputs would be Avatar's gender and Asset/flaw, as well as any currently existing parent pairings and child pairings. It wouldn't be able to give anything really unconventional like my 100% DS team or advanced like something requiring specific damage values for Vengeance and wouldn't be much help for ingame, but should be able to build a standard cookie-cutter team out of the available resources.

I'm almost tempted to try making one myself.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Airship Canon]

Yeah, I think an AMR for Awakening is possible. Most of those limitations could be overcome with a combination of doing stuff in the right order and a weighted RNG. It would assume a goal of Secret Apo with No Holds Barred (so 20 deployment and no banned skills, and it's almost impossible to bring down a team with one or two bad pairings). Possible inputs would be Avatar's gender and Asset/flaw, as well as any currently existing parent pairings and child pairings. It wouldn't be able to give anything really unconventional like my 100% DS team or advanced like something requiring specific damage values for Vengeance and wouldn't be much help for ingame, but should be able to build a standard cookie-cutter team out of the available resources.

I'm almost tempted to try making one myself.

It can be done to a degree, most certainly.

I think it could be fanangled into optimizing for some situations as well [like... instead of no holds barred, you've got bans (No DLC Skills, etc.)]

...

But it's one hell of an endeavor. [AMR is not just "Here's cookie cutter builds" after all (despite it seeming that way). It's a bloody complex calculator.]

...and I'd think one of the targets for such a utility would be optimizing child pairings as well. [because while the differences are very minor, it's a point to say you can crunch enough numbers to get an optimal point out of that (like the Vaike!Nah/Physical!Inigo thing)]

...and weighing Vengeance damage against others is of course, a pain in the rear. [...perhaps an idea, weigh it based on Average damage taken from single mobs in SR Apoth [setting 0 for anything where Unit fails to meet Survival threshold [i.E. Something vs. Nightmare Sniper would have a 0 for Vengeance output, because 108 DEF/66 Speed is needed]] for its power]. (And/or, like how AMR itself would, have an option for the player to set their own entry for Vengeance)

[Czar_Yoshi]

I suppose it could actually run a pair through a battle with every single enemy using Luna, then Vengeance, and do a comparison of average win% for offensive uses. VV itself though is a set that some people just don't like (or don't have the skill to use), dealing with it would likely require a specific player input determining whether or not it would be used (and if it is, the AMR would either use a pre-made or custom-built pair and instead focus on ways to set up their Vengeance). But I doubt I could make something that complex without dedicating a serious amount of time to the project.

Anyway I see it as being something primarily useful for turning a ragtag bunch of misfits into a decently optimized team for Apo. More sophisticated goals such as making a pair specifically for killing a certain enemy are nice, but that pair won't do anything if the AMR spits it out and the player doesn't know how to use it (and if they do know how to use it, they could likely come up with it themself). It's not like the AMR could generate a turn-by-turn movement guide for the team, complete with contingency for all possible RNG events, is it...?

Actually, that's interesting. I wonder exactly how much RNG it's possible to remove from Apo. Could it be possible to cut it down so much that one could reliably clear Apo in the exact same way twice? Could it be cut down so much that you could tell in advance exactly how many weapon uses could be used before entering, and set up your weapons so the last unit breaks their last weapon killing the last enemy? Could you clear Apo without looking at the screen? But that's getting off-topic.

[emmagine]

mr robot is a calculator. The problem with applying it to a game like this, is that you're not dealing with limited supply. The "optimal build" whatever that may be is readily obtainable by anyone with the game. The optimal build with dlc is readily available for anyone with the dlc. The nice part about this game is that you can beat it with a variety of setups.

It would be nice to be able to set weighted values to things yourself, and have it auto populate how to get the most of what you want though. (like galeforce, sol's, or max skill, etc).

[Airship Canon]

Anyway I see it as being something primarily useful for turning a ragtag bunch of misfits into a decently optimized team for Apo. More sophisticated goals such as making a pair specifically for killing a certain enemy are nice, but that pair won't do anything if the AMR spits it out and the player doesn't know how to use it (and if they do know how to use it, they could likely come up with it themself). It's not like the AMR could generate a turn-by-turn movement guide for the team, complete with contingency for all possible RNG events, is it...?

Actually, that's interesting. I wonder exactly how much RNG it's possible to remove from Apo. Could it be possible to cut it down so much that one could reliably clear Apo in the exact same way twice? Could it be cut down so much that you could tell in advance exactly how many weapon uses could be used before entering, and set up your weapons so the last unit breaks their last weapon killing the last enemy? Could you clear Apo without looking at the screen? But that's getting off-topic.

Looking at the ACTUAL AMR, it does have the case of making a thing that the player may not know how to use. It just takes input, and optimally places it together for maximum results, by well.. calculating.

...The concept of an optimizer will result in that.

...in the case of FE:A running such a thing, it'd be the same concept.

Properly built, we might need things like [_] Don't use Vengeance/Vantage Sweeping (AKA MAtt5TER Method). [Which causes it to ignore use of V/V sweeping, which can be quite boring, and thus players don't like it]

As a note: MAtt5TER Method clears are up in the high 90s for true clear rate. [i can do the MaMU/Lucina sweep making the same exact moves the same exact time basically every time (now that I realized how to handle depairing to get Tomahawk hit up to 100%)] so... there's that. If one was using one of those ones, they could clear without the screen if they knew how many buttons to press to make the right moves.

[i'd say, a complete AMR-type calculator for FE:A would be epic. It'd be a hugely massive undertaking for anyone doing it though.]

Edited August 17, 2014 by Airship Canon

[emmagine]

Perhaps. this might evolve into that one day, but it's not what I built it for. all three pages are up now. I changed the link on the main page, because somehow I linked to the 2nd page initially. If you submit the form on the 2nd page, it will take you to a 3rd page now that will let you either link your build, or save (by saving the link) your build.

Eventually it will save skills you have selected as inheritance as well.

http://irodemine.com/EMS/fe1.php

Edited August 17, 2014 by emmagine

[emmagine]

Added a mouseover tooltip for classes, and prettied up the pages a bit. There was a reported bug for classes from the father not displaying. This does matter for a few cases, like where the father is granting a female class a gender specific class. until it is remedied, you'll still have to reference serene forest's wiki. It should be fixed by tonight.

[emmagine]

Added touch screen support for the drag and drop functions.

To do list:

A: configure to allow display of selecting a skill to pass as inheritance,
- mark inheritable skills that the child can not learn on their own.
A: display skills the child inherited on the final screen.

A. display children of the unions to the final screen.

A. fix bug with the fathers inheritable classes for their children.

B: add support for Avatar.

C: add additional page allowing you to select your active team, their pairings, and display their stats both with and without support of their pair, and their equipment, with a link back to the lineage page to show how you got there.

Is there anything else people would like to see on the page?