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So i don't really know what happened, but while/after the servers went down all the urls for the info sections got changed (serenesforest.net/fe13 --> serenesforest.net/awakening, etc), just want to know why that is; that seemed kind of unnecessary. Not that theres any problems with it, just a few dead links around and stuff like that.

Also, the site got REALLY slow; i have no idea how servers work, so is this something that's going to fix itself or is this permanent? Thanks.

Edited by VincentASM
Broadened the scope of the thread a little

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agreed 100%. though i like the change aesthetically, i can't help but feel like some of the changes are redundant (tabs in top right) or unintuitive (example given above).

i just don't like it when multiple buttons go to the same place, all given on the same original page. maybe i'm alone in that. also, the fixed width is annoying--though, josh (if i can call him that) said that can be worked on after all of this gets sorted.

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I'll be working on the redirects. Don't worry!

I finally fixed the slowdown, too.

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I changed the topic title to make it more broad.

If anyone has any suggestions or (constructive) criticism, now's your chance ^^

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The new site looks ugly. The old site was charming in it simplicity. Now everything looks...generic. /genericcomplaint

The main page has so much redundancy:

-"Games" in top-right menu, "Games" section on the left side

-"Media" in top-right menu, "Media" section on the left side

-"Wiki" in top-right menu, "Wiki" on the left

-"Forums" top-right, "Forums" on the left

Games and Media don't need to be in the top-right, do they? And the other links in the Site section could move to the top-right. Then get rid of the Site section on the left. ...Maybe?

Also, may I put in a request for game numbers in the list of games? Numbers are easier for me to compute and I'm sure I'm not the only one. RIP prettyful chart thingy

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The games feel a lot harder to access from the main page now. The way they're set up now you've got to scroll down a ways to get to them, and they're a lot less intuitive, what with them no longer being in a table, not having numbers, and having Akaneia Saga stuck in the middle. I guess it's not a big thing, but it's irritating.

Also with the games, did the pre-Gamecube games really need to be inside of the smaller headings? It's only 6 more items in the dropdown and, once again, makes things more difficult to access than it needs to.

Finally, and this is probably going to come off as pretty harsh, but the General page feels like something that someone did for a grade school 'make a webpage' project. The floating large bold text at the top is just kind of there, the tables don't read well because the separators between the text descriptions and the entries is the same, and a lot of the articles are either poorly written (the ages page goes in reverse release order, except with Mystery at the start, and has very few actual ages on it, some of which seem to be conjecture), don't really belong there (BS is in the games now, so why have it there too?) or largely irrelevant (The Zelgius page stopped being useful 7 years ago, the 1 & 2 intro page is pretty much "Did you know these games are a thing?")

Anyway, that was my rant, I like that some of the pages are cleaner, I'll probably get used to the games fairly quickly even if they aren't changed, and I'll likely never click on the general page again, and I know this must have been a ton of work to do, so good work on things! Major site overhauls are always hard, so hopefully everything settles into place fairly easily from here.

And I know most of the issues on the General page are old things that are from forever ago, but with the upgrading of the site and it's new very prominent position maybe some of the articles could use some TLC/ maybe it's time to let some of them go? Even just taking them off the General page would probably work for some of them, since they're pretty much all on their relevant pages anyway. Except for True Hit, which should probably be linked in it's relevant articles.

Edited by Oshimos

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The way the menus work, I do agree it's a bit redundant, but it's like that for two reasons.

1. The menus to the left are primarily for people used to the old site layout.

2. The menus in the top-right corner are primarily for navigation within sub-pages, which the old site didn't have.

I would like to cut some of the site stuff in the left menu so the games are more prominent, but I'll see what Jyosua thinks.

Also, I appreciate the concerns about the General section, but besides the layout, I'm not really looking to make any drastic changes. But I'll try and take a look once things have settled down.

(the ages page goes in reverse release order, except with Mystery at the start, and has very few actual ages on it, some of which seem to be conjecture)

Well, Mystery of the Emblem was remade so there is a reason for it to be there. Also, reverse release order is a thing; it's not like I placed the games randomly o__o

"Has very few actual ages"... Well, I can't exactly magically list ages that the games/materials don't reveal.

As for conjecture, there's far, far less than what I've seen on other sites. In fact, I'm pretty confident that there isn't any, unless what characters say are wrong.

Well, I suppose I did do some weird number-crunching for the FE4 characters...

(The Zelgius page stopped being useful 7 years ago, the 1 & 2 intro page is pretty much "Did you know these games are a thing?")

Errrr... just because it's not useful doesn't mean it needs the axe. At the risk of sounding big-headed, the Zelgius theory was an important piece of Tellius history. If it's gone, people won't know how it was possibly to piece together the BK's identity before FE10 came out.

Which you could argue is irrelevant now that FE10 has come out, but do we axe all the beta information because that stuff got replaced by other things in the retail release?

Also, the FE1+2 page is a bit out of place, but it's not *that* bad is it? Even I, as a big FE fan, don't know much about those two games.

Edited by VincentASM

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The way the menus work, I do agree it's a bit redundant, but it's like that for two reasons.

1. The menus to the left are primarily for people used to the old site layout.

2. The menus in the top-right corner are primarily for navigation within sub-pages, which the old site didn't have.

I would like to cut some of the site stuff in the left menu so the games are more prominent, but I'll see what Jyosua thinks.

Yeah, this is correct. Previously, there was no way to jump from one game to another without manually typing the page URL. The menu at the top is there to provide that and it's included on every page due to the static site-wide design. The index includes the links at the left to emulate the old site a bit and because the some of the games are lumped into subcategories for the top menu (that was done because there are too many for one big list).

I personally think the links on the left should stay as they are, but I could see maybe removing the Forums or Wiki links from the "site" section at most. Also, some people weren't even aware there was a music or art section on the last version of the site. I'd definitely prefer to keep those there. :V

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So i don't really know what happened, but while/after the servers went down all the urls for the info sections got changed (serenesforest.net/fe13 --> serenesforest.net/awakening, etc), just want to know why that is; that seemed kind of unnecessary. Not that theres any problems with it, just a few dead links around and stuff like that.

Also, the site got REALLY slow; i have no idea how servers work, so is this something that's going to fix itself or is this permanent? Thanks.

I have to say I vastly preferred the game links being /FE(#). Made it a lot easier to just jump to the game I wanted.

agreed 100%. though i like the change aesthetically, i can't help but feel like some of the changes are redundant (tabs in top right) or unintuitive (example given above).

i just don't like it when multiple buttons go to the same place, all given on the same original page. maybe i'm alone in that. also, the fixed width is annoying--though, josh (if i can call him that) said that can be worked on after all of this gets sorted.

some redirects could help this

I just implemented redirects that should take care of this. You can now use the former serenesforest.net/feX/blah/foo/bar/ links for the primary 13 games and it will redirect you to the proper url.

Edit: Actually, I had to turn the redirects off, because they interfered with my process for handling links to the old site. I'll fix it later.

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The new site looks ugly. The old site was charming in it simplicity. Now everything looks...generic. /genericcomplaint

ehhhhhh i think this criticism is really unfounded. the new layout is still incredibly simple, and is almost functionally identical to the old--tabs in top right, links on the left, news in center-right. aesthetically, there weren't huge changes, either. the site was cleaned up rather well, imo, given the resources they have. it certainly didn't go from charming to generic.

the links on the left need work though. jyo doesn't feel the same way i guess, but it is super convenient to have all the game links available to the user without needing to scroll. most of the "site" links on the left can be removed or moved, as there's an easy-to-use set of tabs in the top-right. about us, credits, and general are the only useful links. but screw it, if you wanna keep all of them, i think "games" should be the first set of links found, anyway.

i also think every game should have a unique icon, but that's a minor gripe.

The way the menus work, I do agree it's a bit redundant, but it's like that for two reasons.

1. The menus to the left are primarily for people used to the old site layout.

i don't see why the administrative side of sf feels the need to do this. i mean, do what you guys want, but as long as site overhauls don't completely flush functionality down the toilet, you guys shouldn't be hindered by we old users.

Edited by Phoenix Wright

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Wow, the Merchandise section was finished. That's great!

I feel like some pages, particularly ones with multiple tables separated by text (the General page, for example) would go better if the green background between the tables was gone so it was just tables and text over the background image (which is both prettier and easier on the eyes than a solid color).

Also, a little something that's always slightly bugged me: why are the General Forums above the FE forums on the forums index? This is primarily a FE site, shouldn't they be on top?

Edited by Czar_Yoshi

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ehhhhhh i think this criticism is really unfounded. the new layout is still incredibly simple, and is almost functionally identical to the old--tabs in top right, links on the left, news in center-right. aesthetically, there weren't huge changes, either. the site was cleaned up rather well, imo, given the resources they have. it certainly didn't go from charming to generic.

the links on the left need work though. jyo doesn't feel the same way i guess, but it is super convenient to have all the game links available to the user without needing to scroll. most of the "site" links on the left can be removed or moved, as there's an easy-to-use set of tabs in the top-right. about us, credits, and general are the only useful links. but screw it, if you wanna keep all of them, i think "games" should be the first set of links found, anyway.

i also think every game should have a unique icon, but that's a minor gripe.

i don't see why the administrative side of sf feels the need to do this. i mean, do what you guys want, but as long as site overhauls don't completely flush functionality down the toilet, you guys shouldn't be hindered by we old users.

The links on the left are mostly there as a main page convenience. Being able to load serenesforest.net and in one short click get to whatever game you want is nicer than forcing the users to search through the nav menu at the top. However, the nav menu at the top is a really convenient way to get around the site when you're in one of the subpages. The two menus work together across the site to achieve the easiest, most functional navigation.

As far as the "site' links on the left, the only thing I'd really change about them are the icons. But we'd have to create custom icons for each one. That isn't really a priority right now.

As far as the game icons, the only ones that are repeated are done so because the 'primary weapon' for those games happened to be the same.

Wow, the Merchandise section was finished. That's great!

I feel like some pages, particularly ones with multiple tables separated by text (the General page, for example) would go better if the green background between the tables was gone so it was just tables and text over the background image (which is both prettier and easier on the eyes than a solid color).

Also, a little something that's always slightly bugged me: why are the General Forums above the FE forums on the forums index? This is primarily a FE site, shouldn't they be on top?

We're definitely leaving overall page design as is. Sorry.

The general forums are actually used more. The FE Forums also have the most number of parent forums. There actually used to be even less general forums, but "general fire emblem stuff" is included in the general forums, which is the primary reason why they are above the individual game forums. Basically:

Important Site-Wide/Forum-Wide

General FE and Forum Stuff

Specific Games

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Yeah, they'll eventually be tabs. I haven't gone through to make a list of all of those pages that need to be changed to the tab system. If someone wants to do that for me, it'll be easier for me to go through and fix them when I get a chance. :V

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Yeah, they'll eventually be tabs. I haven't gone through to make a list of all of those pages that need to be changed to the tab system. If someone wants to do that for me, it'll be easier for me to go through and fix them when I get a chance. :V

If you still need this, I'll do it.

FE1: none

FE2: none

FE3: none

FE4: none

FE5: none

FE6: http://serenesforest.net/binding-blade/characters/boss-data/

FE7: http://serenesforest.net/blazing-sword/characters/boss-data/

FE8: http://serenesforest.net/the-sacred-stones/characters/boss-data/

FE9: http://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/boss-data/

FE10: http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/boss-data/

FE11: http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/characters/base-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/characters/growth-rates/ http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/characters/boss-data/

FE12: http://serenesforest.net/light-and-shadow/characters/base-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/light-and-shadow/characters/growth-rates/ http://serenesforest.net/light-and-shadow/characters/boss-data/

FE13: http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/base-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/maximum-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/growth-rates/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/boss-data/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/miscellaneous/downloadable-content/

General: http://serenesforest.net/general/merchandise/ http://serenesforest.net/general/localisation-changes/

It took a while because apparently SF doesn't like me loading tons of pages in a short amount of time. I might have missed a few, but this should be most of them. Basically anything that changes based on difficulty (boss stats), region (Awakening's DLC) or reclassing (growths, etc) gets messed up, plus a few more. There's also this page: http://serenesforest.net/general/mythological-references/ which used to look that way, but could probably benefit from a tab layout as well.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi

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So i don't really know what happened, but while/after the servers went down all the urls for the info sections got changed (serenesforest.net/fe13 --> serenesforest.net/awakening, etc), just want to know why that is; that seemed kind of unnecessary. Not that theres any problems with it, just a few dead links around and stuff like that.

Also, the site got REALLY slow; i have no idea how servers work, so is this something that's going to fix itself or is this permanent? Thanks.

I have to say I vastly preferred the game links being /FE(#). Made it a lot easier to just jump to the game I wanted.

agreed 100%. though i like the change aesthetically, i can't help but feel like some of the changes are redundant (tabs in top right) or unintuitive (example given above).

i just don't like it when multiple buttons go to the same place, all given on the same original page. maybe i'm alone in that. also, the fixed width is annoying--though, josh (if i can call him that) said that can be worked on after all of this gets sorted.

some redirects could help this

Okay, I finally implemented the redirect system. Basically, you can use feX interchangeably with the game name for the current website's pages. However, if you try to reach an old page, it should still redirect you to the old.serenesforest.net subdomain. I tested a few pages and it seems to work properly. However, if you attempt to reach a page that doesn't exist on the current or old sites, it'll redirect you to the current site's site map.

If you still need this, I'll do it.

FE1: none

FE2: none

FE3: none

FE4: none

FE5: none

FE6: http://serenesforest.net/binding-blade/characters/boss-data/

FE7: http://serenesforest.net/blazing-sword/characters/boss-data/

FE8: http://serenesforest.net/the-sacred-stones/characters/boss-data/

FE9: http://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/boss-data/

FE10: http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/boss-data/

FE11: http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/characters/base-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/characters/growth-rates/ http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/characters/boss-data/

FE12: http://serenesforest.net/light-and-shadow/characters/base-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/light-and-shadow/characters/growth-rates/ http://serenesforest.net/light-and-shadow/characters/boss-data/

FE13: http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/base-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/maximum-stats/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/growth-rates/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/boss-data/ http://serenesforest.net/awakening/miscellaneous/downloadable-content/

General: http://serenesforest.net/general/merchandise/ http://serenesforest.net/general/localisation-changes/

It took a while because apparently SF doesn't like me loading tons of pages in a short amount of time. I might have missed a few, but this should be most of them. Basically anything that changes based on difficulty (boss stats), region (Awakening's DLC) or reclassing (growths, etc) gets messed up, plus a few more. There's also this page: http://serenesforest.net/general/mythological-references/ which used to look that way, but could probably benefit from a tab layout as well.

Thanks. I've already done a ton of corrections today, but I should be able to get to this soon. I really appreciate it.

Also, yeah. If you try to load too many pages too quickly, the server is configured to temporarily ban you. Unfortunately, we had to do this as a result of an attack on our webserver.

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Yeah, this is correct. Previously, there was no way to jump from one game to another without manually typing the page URL. The menu at the top is there to provide that and it's included on every page due to the static site-wide design. The index includes the links at the left to emulate the old site a bit and because the some of the games are lumped into subcategories for the top menu (that was done because there are too many for one big list).

I personally think the links on the left should stay as they are, but I could see maybe removing the Forums or Wiki links from the "site" section at most. Also, some people weren't even aware there was a music or art section on the last version of the site. I'd definitely prefer to keep those there. :V

"The links at the left". Yes, they should stay. And may I add a suggestion? How about retain the old site left links art; I mean the boxes that darken when hovering the pointer. Maybe just tweak them a little (such as implement the icons of the new site, replace the numbers, retain the series name or any that I couldn't think of atm), instead of the link-text, because I don't know how to say this but, it just feel like the generic wikia design, in which I'm not a fan of. The Serenesforest uniqueness and simplicity are what make this resource site, like no other. All in all, good job for the redesign the site. Keep up the good work!

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Posted · Hidden by eclipse, October 16, 2015 - Best post ever. ;/
Hidden by eclipse, October 16, 2015 - Best post ever. ;/

m

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