Video FE6 HM 0% growths, with commentary (complete)

[dondon151]

are you going to explain why hard mode bonuses are 5-16 instead of 4-16 soon?

yes, that's on the agenda for chapter 4, though we haven't recorded it yet and i have fingers crossed that we won't forget.

I want to see how long it takes for you to rig Rutger's HM bases to be amazing.

prepare to be disappointed... lol

Edited October 3, 2014 by dondon151

[Carmine Sword]

I'm curious to see just how long Rutger will remain useful with just hard mode bonuses and promotion gains in a playthrough such as this.

[dondon151]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAkaMLsSOug

Chapter 4 is completed in 7 turns.

Chapter information

[spoiler=]

New characters


Clarine (クラリーネ) - Troubadour L1
15 HP | 2 mag | 5 skl | 9 spd | 2 def | 5 res | 8 luk | 5 con | 7 mov | D staves

Clarine fulfills the same role that Ellen does, plus she’s a mountie, so she has the added of utility of being adept at moving units around.


Rutger (ルトガー) - Myrmidon L4
26 HP | 9 str | 13 skl | 16 spd | 6 def | 1 res | 4 luk | 7 con | 5 mov | C swords

Here’s one of the few units without whom FE6 HM 0% growths would be nearly impossible.

Rutger is pretty good at simply killing things. More importantly, Rutger is also my trump card against enemy bosses, who are much tougher than the standard enemy unit. Rutger gains a passive 30 crit bonus after promotion. With the crit bonuses from certain swords, he’ll have a >60% chance of dealing triple damage to an enemy if he lands his attack, and he’ll usually attack twice.

Important weapons

Rapier (レイピア)
E rank sword | 1 rng | 5 WT | 5 MT | 95 hit | 10 crit | Eff against armors and cavalry

Despite it being an E rank sword, the Rapier is a weapon that only Roy can use. It looks like a slightly improved Iron Sword, which it is most of the time, but it’s also effective against knights, generals, cavaliers, and paladins *. Unfortunately, the Rapier doesn’t make Roy much better, but it at least gives him something to do in this chapter.

* Weapons that are effective against cavalry in FE6 are not effective against nomads, nomad troopers, troubadours, and valkyries, despite those classes being on horseback.

Killing Edge (キルソード)
C rank sword | 1 rng | 7 WT | 9 MT | 80 hit | 30 crit

All physical weapons have a tier of killer weapons. These are mid-ranked weapons with middling MT, low WT, high hit, and most importantly, 30 crit. Killer weapons are some of the best in the game, mostly for their potential to triple a unit’s damage. Critical hits from killer weapons are one of the only ways to quickly defeat enemy bosses.

Mechanics notes

Hard mode bonuses, revisited

In the introductory comments, I cursorily covered the generation of HM bonuses in FE6. What I didn’t mention is that enemies who are converted to the player’s cause also benefit from these bonuses. There are some exceptions, which can be chalked up to the ways in which those units are loaded into the game.


Milady, without HM bonuses on the left, with HM bonuses on the right. Other characters’ HM bonuses are not quite as huge.

Units who are not on the map on turn 1 have their HM bonuses generated when they appear. This means that it is possible to manipulate their bonuses, to some small extent. In the example above, Milady can have 12, 13, or 14 spd. In general, I attempt to manipulate the best all-around bonuses for important units. *

It should come as no surprise that a disproportionate amount of the units whom I use extensively in this game are those who benefit from HM bonuses.

* In the specific case of Milady, it was prohibitively difficult for me to search for an RN string that allowed for a 14 spd Milady who also had 17 str and 16 def. The extra point of spd would have made almost no difference.

Edited December 19, 2014 by dondon151

[Irysa]

Huurah, this is finally back.

I hate this map with a passion, not so much because the enemies are strong, but because of the gross hitrates you have to deal with against most of them. It's one of the few maps in the series where I really don't give a damn about rigging hits here or there since even with growths, one or two misses are quite hard to recover from. Chapter 7 might have tougher enemies, and a higher amount of requirements to fufill but the hitrates aren't as frustrating, and you've got Zealot there too.

EDIT: I dig how you boxed in a nomad or two throughout the video since they're a pain.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Irysa

[dondon151]

So I feel quite bad for having left this abandoned for over a month. This should make up for some of the inactivity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO22ROOyL_g

Chapter 5 is completed in 3 turns.

Chapter information

[spoiler=]

Important items

Angelic Robe (天使の衣)
An Angelic Robe boosts a unit’s max HP by 7 points.

The Angelic Robe is one of a variety of items that permanently boost a unit’s stats. There is one such item for each of the 9 personal stats that a unit has. Some stat boosters are more useful than others. Those that confer trivial bonuses have another purpose - they can be sold for a hefty 4000G apiece.

Edited December 19, 2014 by dondon151

[dondon151]

Chapter 7 might have tougher enemies, and a higher amount of requirements to fufill but the hitrates aren't as frustrating, and you've got Zealot there too.

not gonna lie, i think chapter 7's hit rate problems are worse, especially when you don't have a good rutger and deke to back you up. zealot's base accuracy is blegh.

Edited November 16, 2014 by dondon151

[Irysa]

Hmm I dunno. I think there aren't as many enemies who are annoying to hit in Chapter 7 considering half of the enemies on the map are knights or soldiers with negligble eva, compared to 4 where nearly everything is a cavalier or nomad. Plus you have a lot more flexability to choke points, defensive terrain to utilise, Zealot doesn't die if looked at funny etc. The mercs are really annoying though, but that's FE6 in general.

Going by 0% (or even just LTC, I've never done it faster than 10 turns) however I can see how it would be more frustrating, as with them usually Deke or one of your Cavaliers has grown an appreciable amount and a few points of skill here or there help a lot.

Don't have much to add about the C5 clear (seen it already, love the Chad choke) other than the fact that some of your phrasing about the unfairness of the boss is only really relevant to extreme LTC since you can make him swap to a Hand Axe and fish for KE crits on PP otherwise.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Irysa

[Carmine Sword]

So, I'm curious as to whether you will go to Sacae or Illia. I would assume Illia, since it's generally easier than Sacae, but what do I know?

Good job at any rate.

[dondon151]

Hmm I dunno. I think there aren't as many enemies who are annoying to hit in Chapter 7 considering half of the enemies on the map are knights or soldiers with negligble eva, compared to 4 where nearly everything is a cavalier or nomad. Plus you have a lot more flexability to choke points, defensive terrain to utilise, Zealot doesn't die if looked at funny etc. The mercs are really annoying though, but that's FE6 in general.

yes, but physic priests.

just kidding, but seriously, the enemies all come at you in chapter 7 whereas they come to you 2-4 at a time in chapter 4. i suppose in chapter 4 you have several small clusters of must-hit-or-die whereas in chapter 7 it just all happens at once and it can go to shit really quickly. marcus and zealot don't die to a breeze, but if you throw them into a pile of enemies, chances are they'll miss half of them, and the ones they don't miss will get physic'd.

i always forget that chapter 5 boss has a hand axe. it's probably not so strange that i never remember these things, though...

[Terrador]

Just a curiosity question--what do you use as a rule-of-thumb for luck-based events to rig, as far as what's reasonable and what isn't? I know you could rig pretty much anything on PP with minimal effort, and any reasonably likely EP without trouble, but where do you draw the line for these runs?

[dondon151]

it's pretty arbitrary. for bosses i will do just about whatever necessary. for most crits i'll only rig them if i can pull above 25 crit or so. on EPs i generally aim for at least 40% chance of survival, but if there's only one way to do something and it's really risky anyway, then i might take that risk after trying to minimize it as much as i can.

usually, as the run goes on, i relax the criteria a little because in my mind, i justify it with "oh, if i had growths, then my hit and avo stats would be higher and things would be more likely to succeed." but all i can tell you is that the criteria are somewhat arbitrary and i try to maximize elegance even when the numbers are ugly.

[General Horace]

chapter 6 chapter 6 chapter 6

ngl i pretty much know what gonna happen with the gameplay by now I just like the commentary, keep it up!

I still can't imagine ever doing a LTC of FE6 with growths, i'd be a massive pain, and is pretty unexplored in general. Something i'd never dare to touch anyway. Still be pretty interesting to see though, because your 0% runs have become really really good (FE6 in particular since you've redid it so many times) just to see how many turns difference there would be.

Edited November 16, 2014 by General Horace

[Irysa]

I've been pretty interested in trying it actually but tbh it would probably be something more akin to an efficiency run since I'm nowhere near the skill level of most of the good players on this site. I also kinda don't like excessively rigging growths, and kind of wanted to do it with one of those RNG hack things so it isn't completely predicatable either.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Irysa

[dondon151]

step 1 is to beat my turncounts

step 2 is to cut my turncount in half

FE6 LTC, even on normal mode, requires a ton of rigging. try asking around in the ROMhacking forum for a fixed growths patch if you don't want to rig growths. i don't remember if xeld made one for FE6, and if he did, i don't know where to get it.

one thing you'll have to decide when LTCing is whether to recruit all units and whether to allow deaths. you can save turns by strategically allowing player units to die in this game. the more turns you cut that way, though, the harder it is to train up desired units.

[Mekkah]

You could always rig people to have 100% growths in the most important stats and see how low you can get.

[dondon151]

Chapter 6 is completed in 7 turns.

Chapter information

[spoiler=]

New characters


Saul (サウル) - Priest L5
20 HP | 4 mag | 6 skl | 10 spd | 2 def | 5 res | 2 luk | 6 con | 5 mov | C staves

Saul is the third staffer in FE6. Saul is basically Ellen with a higher base level, a higher base staff rank, and better all-around stats. Saul is the only unit whom I can get to A rank staves in a limited number of turns, and as such, he’ll be my primary staffer for the majority of the game.


Dorothy (ドロシー) - Archer L3
19 HP | 5 str | 6 skl | 6 spd | 4 def | 2 res | 3 luk | 7 con | 5 mov | D bows

If it weren’t for the fact that chapter 7 requires bow users, I wouldn’t willingly deploy Dorothy at all.


Sue (スー) - Nomad L1
18 HP | 5 str | 7 skl | 8 spd | 5 def | 0 res | 4 luk | 5 con | 7 mov | D bows

Sue is a bow user and a mountie, which is thus far an unseen combination. Her stats are rather lackluster, but her primary purpose is to serve as courier.

There is a reason why I don’t want to use Sue very much in combat, which I’ll explain in detail later.

Edited December 19, 2014 by dondon151

[dondon151]

god this took so long to annotate

Chapter 7 is completed in 7 turns.

Chapter information

[spoiler=]

New characters


Zealot (ゼロット) - Paladin L1
35 HP | 10 str | 12 skl | 13 spd | 11 def | 7 res | 5 luk | 11 con | 8 mov | C swords, A lances, D axes

Zealot is a slightly better Marcus. Zealot beats Marcus by a slight, but still significant, margin in every stat except for those related to accuracy, which is somewhat irksome because a unit who fights as often as Zealot doesn’t want to take chances with missing.


Treck (トレック) - Cavalier L4
25 HP | 8 str | 6 skl | 7 spd | 8 def | 0 res | 5 luk | 9 con | 7 mov | E swords, D lances

Being slightly better than Allen or Lance doesn’t amount to much, but Treck does slightly more damage than either of them when needed, and he’s slightly less prone to death.


Noah (ノア) - Cavalier L7
27 HP | 8 str | 7 skl | 9 spd | 7 def | 1 res | 6 luk | 10 con | 7 mov | C swords, D lances

Noah’s bases aren’t actually that much higher than those of his compatriot Treck, but he does have 2 characteristics that work in his favor: he joins at L7 with a decent base sword rank.

Noah doesn’t have to put in a lot of effort to reach L10, at which point he can use a Knight Crest to promote into a paladin. (Promotion will be explained later.) The stat boost from promotion puts him on a comparable level with Marcus.

Important weapons and items

Steel Bow (はがねの弓)
D rank bow | 2 rng | 9 WT | 9 MT | 65 hit | 0 crit | Eff against fliers

All physical weapons have a tier of steel weapons. These are low-ranked weapons with middling MT, high WT, and low hit. The sword and bow versions of steel weapons are occasionally useful for the boost in MT while still retaining fair WT and accuracy, but the lance and axe are much too heavy and inaccurate to warrant serious use.

Bows are unique among physical weapons in that they cannot attack from 1 range. This means that bow users can generally attack and be attacked with impunity. Bows are also effective against flying units, making them invaluable for quickly killing pegasi and wyverns.

Red Gem (赤の宝玉)
A Red Gem can be sold for 3000G. They serve no other purpose. There are blue and white variants on this item, which can be sold for 5000G and 10000G, respectively.

Chest Key (たからのかぎ)
A Chest Key can be used by any unit to unlock a treasure chest.

Door Key (とびらのかぎ)
A Door Key can be used by any unit to open a door.

The Chest and Door Keys allow me to reduce my reliance on thieves.

Mechanics notes

Arena

The arena is a recurring feature in the FE franchise. Units can go to the arena to engage in a round of gladiatorial combat. If victorious, the player wins some amount of money. If unsuccessful, the player loses money, and the unit is dead.

A player unit wagers some amount of money between 600G and 1000G to fight a randomly generated enemy. The enemy unit’s quality is dependent on the size of the wager - a higher wager corresponds to a stronger enemy. The player unit automatically uses an iron weapon of the weapon type in which they are most adept; the enemy may use stronger weapons.


Rutger gambles in the arena against an enemy fighter. The wager for this battle was 980G.

One round of combat follows the next in the arena, until one participant falls. In normal play, pressing the B button during an arena fight cancels the battle after the current round of combat concludes. Since this run is fully planned, I never use that option.

Obviously, the arena is a viable option to grind for money and EXP. It’s also a good place for units who do not often fight to gain WEXP.

Serenes Forest has more information on the algorithm that generates arena enemies.
Generating arena enemies: http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php?title=Generating_Arena_Enemies_%28GBA%29

Edited December 19, 2014 by dondon151

[chococoke]

Is there some type of threshold level of HP relative to the maximum that activates the priests? I'm rather certain there was at least one injured enemy unit in range of both priests, yet neither acted.

[Vennobennu]

It depends on the AI of both the damaged enemy and the Priest. Normally, an AI with a healing staff will only heal a target if that target's AI determines that it needs healing - the threshold for 'needs it' varies between 0% and 80% HP, remaining, but is usually either 50% or 30%.

Some healers, depending on their own AI settings, will heal allies who have less than 50% HP remaining regardless of their target's AI.

[Chiki]

step 1 is to beat my turncounts

step 2 is to cut my turncount in half

FE6 LTC, even on normal mode, requires a ton of rigging. try asking around in the ROMhacking forum for a fixed growths patch if you don't want to rig growths. i don't remember if xeld made one for FE6, and if he did, i don't know where to get it.

one thing you'll have to decide when LTCing is whether to recruit all units and whether to allow deaths. you can save turns by strategically allowing player units to die in this game. the more turns you cut that way, though, the harder it is to train up desired units.

I've considered doing it but since I don't like to restrict myself at all, I'd have to allow deaths, and that would make me want to kill myself along with my units. FE6 is probably the hardest game to LTC apart from FE13 L+ and FE5.

[Florete]

one thing you'll have to decide when LTCing is whether to recruit all units and whether to allow deaths. you can save turns by strategically allowing player units to die in this game. the more turns you cut that way, though, the harder it is to train up desired units.

Can't units move again after being dropped by a unit that died in this game? It would be crazy to see what kind of strats could be made from that.

Oh, also, watching and enjoying the videos. Keep up the good work.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[dondon151]

yes, usually 1 death = 1 turn saved because it's a lot like using a dancer. eventually you run out of easily-killable units and then you might have to RNG abuse for enemies to kill player units, which is pretty amusing.

oh, i want to add that i started posting the videos on r/fireemblem. upvote them if you have the time!

Edited November 19, 2014 by dondon151

[Lord Raven]

Yep, that was the basis of one TAS where they completely fucked the RNG (and actually changed the seeding around) by letting most of his units die in a gruesome fashion just so Roy could sit on a castle.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Toothache]

That wasn't a TAS, btw, was a well disguised hack (left in combat animation to disguise the change), if you're talking about beamcrash's videos. The strats themselves are worth looking at, at least, but never be fooled by them.

[General Horace]

what exactly did beamcrash do in his videos? I was always confused how he never burnt RN's and still hit, crit and dodged everything with perfect levels.

Edited November 19, 2014 by General Horace