Civ 5 Draft - Round 2

[XeKr]

It's usually in Documents->My Games->Sid Meier's Civilization 5 (at least on windows) but it depends on your computer. I should clarify that the mod uses a dll so not all the changes will work on Mac/Linux, if that's applicable.

I suppose there's also no problem with some people using the mod and others not. Mainly just comparing experiences.

Edited December 24, 2015 by XeKr

[BBM]

Well, that's 4 of us. Sharpy said that he was too busy to do so. I'm cool with playing the mod, but it sounds hard so I'll maybe play on a lower difficulty idk.

We can wait a while for more signups or have TWO ghost drafters?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

EDIT: pls delete, thanks doubleposting

Edited December 24, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[XeKr]

Eh, we can maybe start the draft soon-ish and people can sub in if they wish during the process. I did glimpse a lurker or two itt so maybe they might chime in.

and imo the mod is actually good for teaching you how to build a strong empire. Because otherwise in deity you can mess around forever, with relatively little optimization, and stumble into victories as long as you bribe AIs. I still lose demigod games (not just backstab games either, even though those happen) or have very tight races to the last turn, whereas regular deity is a sleepwalk (AI is like 50-100+ turns away from victory).

@HF Makalov Fanboy Kai: cool if it works, np

Edited December 24, 2015 by XeKr

[BBM]

Okay, I conscripted one of my friends to be a 5th. He isn't going to make an account, but he'll relay his pick to me and I'll post it. Should we go ahead and use a Ghost Drafter for the 6th slot like last time?

Edited December 27, 2015 by BBM

[XeKr]

Sounds good

[Shin]

I could be the 6th if you guys like, I've been playing a fair bit of civ lately.

[BBM]

So as it happens, i got another friend to also join, so let's do 8 with a ghost slot. I randomized the order:

1. Ghost

2. Kai

3. Friend 1

4. Friend 2

5. Shin

6. AnonymousSpeed

7. Xekr

8. BBM

I pick for the Ghost- Austria. Kai is next.

Edited December 27, 2015 by BBM

[AnonymousSpeed]

I am le six!...yay?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

this is for picking your civ to play as right?

if so then i'll be...England.

[XeKr]

Some things to note (that may not be immediately obvious) if you want to try the mod. Read the changelog for more details.

-v4 seems to be coming out soon, with some tweaks. Should be today iirc, if you want to wait a bit.

-Some civs like China/Zulu are weaker than normal, since Pikes got moved (Civil Service too strong a tech otherwise) and xbows are -2 ranged strength (with longsword buffs and how combat strength ratios work, CKN do a lot less damage). Some like Rome are stronger than normal (Swordsman are generally pretty terrifying, and Legions moreso)

-Melee units should usually be the core of the army. Ranged is for more damage. Mounted add some damage and utility use (pillage, snipe workers/generals, add flanking). Siege against cities, but imo they still aren’t that useful until artillery. Mass composites/Xbows can still work, but the timing is stricter.

- >4 cities is a bit easier/stronger, <4 cities is a bit weaker. It’s a very good idea to conquer cities at some point. Turtling (the whole game) usually doesn’t work.

- AI is considerably more aggressive, especially for cases like land disputes and against CS. Build some defense (some units, cities are pretty weak). Warmonger penalty is tweaked so there’s casus belli and such.

- Tradition/Liberty/Honor are fine starting trees. I wouldn’t start with Piety alone (it works but it’s just harder), either do a mix or take it later as a secondary tree. Rationalism is industrial now, so no point timing Renaissance.

- I’d recommend 1-2 levels below your normal difficulty, depending on how comfortable you are with your Civ fundamentals (understanding what’s “good” in a general sense, and why, plus how fast you can adapt to the tweaks). There’s also a lot more small things that end up mattering, especially at Immortal+. tbh I don’t know the optimal decisions either.

-I would say the main appeal is the challenge and diversity, while still feeling like CiV (unlike CBP, imo). So it’s more if you’re bored of Tradition->Secularism and the quirks of regular BNW AI (everyone with Cultural grand strategy focus. Can’t move and shoot. Very peaceful. Doesn’t win until turn 300+. etcetc). If you don’t feel that way, fair enough.

Also, figure I’d ask, any interest in doing a succession game/tag team? I’m always interested in different thought patterns and approaches to certain situations. and wacky things can happen when playstyles clash

[BBM]

What's a succession game?

As for tag team, not sure if you mean like 2v2v2v2 but I still feel like multiplayer would be difficult to set up and I don't think we can do it with the mod?

[XeKr]

It's more like we take turns playing the same game. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=456545

Probably ~20 turns each the first 100 turns. Then ~15 turns each for 100-200. Do a small writeup after each section and pass on the save file.

Usually learn a good bit about the game in discussing strategies, why people made certain decisions, etc.

[BBM]

That sounds cool- we can look into it after the draft I guess.

Friend 1 picks JAPAN

[BBM]

Sorry for the double post- Friend 2 picks France. Shin is up.

[Shin]

Portugal.

(I don't actually have G&K so I might have to put in someone as a replacement.)

EDIT: I tell a lie, sales so good

Edited December 28, 2015 by Shin

[BBM]

The mod is for BNW though, not just G&K. You can still play on G&K if you want though I guess.

Anyways, AnonymousSpeed is up.

Edited December 28, 2015 by BBM

[AnonymousSpeed]

Sales Poland tier.

Well, I've been meaning to play Denmark...but because I don't know how good my chances are of winning in that case, so I'm going to pick someone else instead.

No one's taken Ethiopia, it seems...so it's mine! Steele so good.

[XeKr]

Denmark is fun with the early 3 move Berserkers (pretty insane with the mod, but even very strong without)

Assyria (if bnw civs are okay) for me since they’re getting some changes I want to try in the next patch, which should be coming today going by the posts in that topic.

Also please indicate if you want to try the succession game and we can discuss some rules/difficulty/civ/etc, I'm flexible.

Edited December 28, 2015 by XeKr

[Shin]

The mod is for BNW though, not just G&K. You can still play on G&K if you want though I guess.

Anyways, AnonymousSpeed is up.

I have BNW, don't worry.

[BBM]

I edited it in but forgot to post- I pick INDIA #represent #preparetogetnuked

[BBM]

Do I have to redownload the mod if it got updated or does it auto-patch?

[XeKr]

If you downloaded/subscribed through steam it should update automatically (should say v4) but workshop is often wonky. Clearing the cache usually works, or updating manually can be done by extracting to the mods folder. Acken says it’s save-game compatible.

Interesting patch. The biggest change I see is the specialist slot on the library. That early in the game it’s painful to work 0 food, 2 sci tiles, though I suppose you can get early academies. But with the changes to GS, I don’t think it’s worth filling scientist slots all the time (in regular BNW, you can save scientists, so you generally want absolute max GS points). More academies is more science early but less growth/hammers and each is a lost bulb lategame, which might equalize. Hard to say.

Probably going to do an Immortal game for the draft to try the patch (usually 10-15 turns slower than demigod, on the last patch, which is still really fast. Easily sub 300 even with the slower lategame).

As for Assyria, they now get a free Writer at writing, so early +4 culture, +3 tourism if building the UB. Plus it acts like a Barracks when filled, so double promos very early. Maybe Honor with Siege Tower/Composites? I almost want to attempt Great Library into Ironworking, but it’s probably a bad idea. >_>

Edited December 29, 2015 by XeKr

[XeKr]

[spoiler=settings]

Level 6 is immortal here (7 is demigod). Everything else standard. I use a few UI mods and Quick Turns in addition to Acken’s.

[spoiler=starting location]

Nice start, lots of fresh water and mountain. Settled on the Wine for the gold and extra chop/river tile. Scouted around, only Japan nearby. He’s one of the most aggressive AIs by flavor, so this should be interesting.

[spoiler=tributes]

Tributed a worker from Mogadishu just as they hit 4 pop, then stole another one. Going to stay at war with them and possibly conquer them later as they have Observatory access, Cerro de Potosi and a unique lux. In hindsight maybe I should have tried to conquer it while my units where nearby, but rip diplo in that case and actually I needed units elsewhere.

[spoiler=demos]

Just showing 2^nd in army, even on immortal. Honor in the mod gives you just enough units to do a little tribute, something almost impossible in the normal game without huge sacrifices. Also got a worker from Vancouver, which makes 3 without building any.

Now there was a good number of tribute fodder to the west, but they were starting to build units, other Civs pledged them, and there’s this crazy situation.

[spoiler=dat value]

[spoiler=kreygasm]

Ran some units over quickly.

[spoiler=Great Library turn 53? okk]

Really late, but I wasn’t paying attention so I didn’t try for it.

Citywise, Ninevah is on Sugar, it’s a great (Tradition) spot.

Settled Nimrud on the coast because I thought Japan’s regional lux was Spices, but it’s actually Crabs. Maybe another city arrangement would be better. btw Nimrud is actually on a cow, it's one of the few bonus resources you can settle on without necessarily losing much (city tile becomes 3 food). Also only 1 pasture resource usually isn't worth the stable, to me.

Had so much happiness from city states I wanted to settle another city early, but decided not to underestimate Japan and build units instead. There wasn’t another great spot anyways, some decent coastals, but I probably can’t afford sailing until after the military techs. Maybe a mistake, since work boats are so good now, but eh.

Will still need to drop another city sometime, if only to take advantage of the tradition bonuses.

[spoiler=state at turn 66]

Just upgraded a bunch of units. Kinda late from the detours, so probably want some Horseman and Siege towers too. Japan is already top military at 60k. As long as we hit before Samurai, we should be okay? >_>

Capital build order: Scout->Scout->Monument->Warrior->Settler->Settler->Royal Library->Granary->Barracks->units

I usually open (at least) double scout now, since Palace has 2 culture and you get your first policy fairly early. I thought about skipping the Monument (thought to try Tradition/Honor mix), but it felt more important to get the Spear/Archer in Honor early for tribute so legalism is kinda late. Not sure if a worker or something would be better however. Warrior was to fill the time when getting to 3 pop and for tribute.

Satellite build order: Granary->Barracks->units

Standard. I was debating whether to build monuments and try to get Amphitheatres with Legalism but eh.

No great pantheon and no chance to go piety if taking both Tradition and Honor so skip shrines. Later with Lhasa as an ally I got god of craftsman for a temp boost.

Techs: AH (ruin turn 2) -> Bronze Working -> Writing -> Calendar -> Construction

First see if there’s Horses/Iron (barely any). Writing timed well with the Capital BO. Then luxes and army. Probably going to Math for Siege Towers and Horseback riding next.

Policies: Tradition -> Honor -> Spear/Archer thingy -> Legalism -> fast Barracks and cheaper upgrades -> probably try to finish Tradition

So with the capital spot looking solid with high food in surrounding areas, mixing in some Tradition looked good to me as landed elite got buffed and Monarchy is one of the best happiness policies. Obviously wanted to go Honor since Assyria, so it ended up a little weird in policy choices.

Another option would be to finish Honor first then go back to legalism/monarchy for the culture/happiness (probably never finishing Tradition or getting it super late, which just feels inefficient to me). But I just got a few first tier policies for the tribute/early war and decided to try and finish Tradition. This is because I didn’t see an obvious target after Japan so the other war bonuses wouldn’t be as good in the midgame. France is his neighbor, and I’m a bit scared of his 30 strength Musketeers gotten rekted enough times on demigod. Not sure when he’ll get them, but defending and growing (after this first war) feels a bit safer than an offensive war. With the early Great Work and some cultural city states, hopefully Tradition finisher isn’t too delayed.

Edited December 30, 2015 by XeKr

[Shin]

Never played Portugal before! I'll probably give this a crack once I get back to uni!