Guitar Mafia - Game Over

[Rapier]

I don't really like all this attention on Larsa at the moment. I perveived no scum intent from his Poly vote and FWIW, it feels like a normal RVS joke vote FMPOV.

This is an unfortunate part of RVS: We cling to anything that might give us enough content to get out of RVS phase, even if our cases are subpar. I am more impressed that you are not participating on it, actually. The same can be said about Randa, who has posted quite a few times but showed little content. Don't both of you have something more to say in regards to what happened so far?

The nature by which he does it with a miller claim. The point was that by attempting to draw attention which was obvious, the alternative effect was desired.

So he wanted to draw attention in order to not draw attention... Wait, what.

I'm not buying this.

[MRDRHAWK]

And cut by HBC; disregard most of my last post.

Prims, why are you voting me in that case? I dunno if I saw any explanation of it from you.

[Prims]

Poly's reaction is OK but please be productive. Who is scum?

##Unvote

##Vote: MancerNecro

Mancer posts nothing here when there's content to discuss then when he makes a serious post it's white-knighting "all the attention" on... a player with one vote (at the time). Furthermore his explanation doesn't explain why they shouldn't be voting Larsa, he just says he disagrees. Scum caught contriving opinions D1 gg sheep me.

RE: his recent post: I was not scumreading Larsa at the time. I was asking him a question. wtf?

@Refa: The argument is garbage. Meta'ing a claim in RVS? More than likely a joke, if it's not-- well, we'll see. I didn't say there wasn't anything non-damning about self voting, his is merely a self vote without other context though; ie why I said it has no damning quality to it. I deemed it a joke self vote... while more than likely Poly's is as well; But the nature in which he did it is what's damning about it. As I said above, it appeared to me by drawing attention to himself, the latter was required. Could be a poorly thought out scum gambit. Noted your defense of it, Refa. Rev that chainsaw.

I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say here. People were asking you why him drawing attention to himself is scummy, why is it scummy to you? Regardless, "Noted your defense of it, Refa. Rev that chainsaw." is a horrible and passive-aggressive reaction. Is Refa actually scum? How do Poly's reactions affect your vote? Unsure if this is a personality thing but I'd consider joining the wagon on you after this because your post specifically addresses the least important parts of the pressure on you.

I am skeeved out by people going for Larsa over Poly/Psych priorities but not me, though. I essentially said I agreed with him.

[#HBC Larsa]

and another thing entirely to be like "yeah Psych's self vote was fine".

Another thing, where is the scum intent in drawing attention to his self vote (WIFOM is not an acceptable answer)?

Also missed some points to respond to here, so let me finish out.

I never said that, I said there was nothign else damning within it. You percieved the wrong thing from my post. Self votes are known to be frowned upon and anti-town, of course this is RVS so naturally with a grain of salt and lenience, however, why point out the obvious when it's known? Basis to make an argument for sakes of doing so?

Also, I never said there was scum intent behind it? You're fabricating content that isn't their. He asked why I put my vote there, and I said why. I said it's more damning due to the nature in which he/she did it, and I've explained why that is. Poly explained it as a joke, but with no outside meta, or knowing that Poly hates Millers, it could be a scum gambit or anything like all the same. That's why it stood out more. Which is why, yet again, I chose Poly over Psycho.

[MRDRHAWK]

@Prims: So far, nobody's really pinging me outside of Randa. It doesn't help that a bunch of people still need to post in any manner before then; we're still missing about a third to half of the game.

Mancer's last couple of posts are meh because they seem awfully empty when we've broken out of RVS by that point, but idk if that's actually scummy or Mancer being Mancer.

[#HBC Larsa]

Poly's reaction is OK but please be productive. Who is scum?

##Unvote

##Vote: MancerNecro

Mancer posts nothing here when there's content to discuss then when he makes a serious post it's white-knighting "all the attention" on... a player with one vote (at the time). Furthermore his explanation doesn't explain why they shouldn't be voting Larsa, he just says he disagrees. Scum caught contriving opinions D1 gg sheep me.

RE: his recent post: I was not scumreading Larsa at the time. I was asking him a question. wtf?

I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say here. People were asking you why him drawing attention to himself is scummy, why is it scummy to you? Regardless, "Noted your defense of it, Refa. Rev that chainsaw." is a horrible and passive-aggressive reaction. Is Refa actually scum? How do Poly's reactions affect your vote? Unsure if this is a personality thing but I'd consider joining the wagon on you after this because your post specifically addresses the least important parts of the pressure on you.

I am skeeved out by people going for Larsa over Poly/Psych priorities but not me, though. I essentially said I agreed with him.

What do you need elaborated on? I missed the key points and responded to them in the above. It's not inherently scummy to draw attention to yourself, I was saying that the way he did it was more damning by drawing the attention to himself. You're asking me to substantiate a joke vote to the point of a read, which I currently do not have on Poly. I thought it was quite obviously a joke vote, I merely eleborated on my choice because you asked me to.

Also, it is personality, looking for a rise out of Refa if you must know. Abbrasive playstyle D1 for reads, yo.

[Randa]

poly lets be real here. i treat rvs the same way as scum, town, and itp. predominately because i am the bestest at mafia and clearly dont have a defining meta that will appear near the end of day 1 involving my analysis on players. nope no such thing exists.

[Rapier]

Also, I never said there was scum intent behind it? You're fabricating content that isn't their. He asked why I put my vote there, and I said why. I said it's more damning due to the nature in which he/she did it, and I've explained why that is. Poly explained it as a joke, but with no outside meta, or knowing that Poly hates Millers, it could be a scum gambit or anything like all the same. That's why it stood out more. Which is why, yet again, I chose Poly over Psycho.

Either I am reading you wrong, or you contradicted yourself. First you claim you saw nothing scummy in Poly's vote, then you argue that his action could be a scum gambit. Earlier on you also said he could be scum trying to avoid getting attention by self-voting. Which is it?

As a sidenote, I hate RVS.

[MancerNecro]

@Prims: Okay, whatever.

@Rapier: "the alternative effect was desired" means it's better not to self vote and draw attention to one person, not that Poly's self vote achieved the opposite effect (of not drawing attention at all).

##Unvote: Rapier, ##Vote: Randa since his posts are inherently unhelpful to town and contains absolutely no content at all when the rest of the currently active town are all discussing Larsa's Poly vote. Feels like he's coasting and/or being deliberately unhelpful. He doesn't do anything when prodded to either.

@Poly: Do something useful with your vote. Seems like you already have enough of a case to vote someone for being scummy already so why is your vote still on yourself?

[MancerNecro]

@Prims: So far, nobody's really pinging me outside of Randa. It doesn't help that a bunch of people still need to post in any manner before then; we're still missing about a third to half of the game.

Mancer's last couple of posts are meh because they seem awfully empty when we've broken out of RVS by that point, but idk if that's actually scummy or Mancer being Mancer.

It's me being sleepy and posting slowly only to have tonnes of posts to read after I've made my original post...

[Randa]

@Prims: Okay, whatever.

@Rapier: "the alternative effect was desired" means it's better not to self vote and draw attention to one person, not that Poly's self vote achieved the opposite effect (of not drawing attention at all).

##Unvote: Rapier, ##Vote: Randa since his posts are inherently unhelpful to town and contains absolutely no content at all when the rest of the currently active town are all discussing Larsa's Poly vote. Feels like he's coasting and/or being deliberately unhelpful. He doesn't do anything when prodded to either.

@Poly: Do something useful with your vote. Seems like you already have enough of a case to vote someone for being scummy already so why is your vote still on yourself?0

you state that i am an active townie and then vote me anyways, thats pretty scummy mancer. : ]

also yes i will be more serious, but not right now.

[Rapier]

@Rapier: "the alternative effect was desired" means it's better not to self vote and draw attention to one person, not that Poly's self vote achieved the opposite effect (of not drawing attention at all).

##Unvote: Rapier, ##Vote: Randa since his posts are inherently unhelpful to town and contains absolutely no content at all when the rest of the currently active town are all discussing Larsa's Poly vote. Feels like he's coasting and/or being deliberately unhelpful. He doesn't do anything when prodded to either.

I see. Still, how is this beneficial for scum? I don't see how Poly's action, through Larsa's perspective, could be beneficial for him.

Also, you've told us that you're sleepy, but you're still guilty of doing the same thing as Randa.

[MancerNecro]

Town refers to the collective group of players (including the scum team) and not just those aligned to the town.

[Prims]

Mancer's last couple of posts are meh because they seem awfully empty when we've broken out of RVS by that point, but idk if that's actually scummy or Mancer being Mancer.

It's actually scummy. Having a history of weak play doesn't excuse you from doing scummy things. "Mancer being Mancer" is what I'd use to describe something he does as both alignments; here his "content" overreacts to what wasn't even a wagon and contains no actual scumhunting. His opinions are manufactured.

Honestly can't tell what Larsa is trying to say half the time. His Poly vote seemed presented as serious and not a joke when he made it (he did call Poly scummy).

imo Poly's self-vote was bad for what I said here, and the attention-drawing was bad because town shouldn't even want a joke-wagon on them because a reaction from the wagoned player can't possibly affect their read. His recent posts towntell like a motherfucker though, not lynching him as is. idk please do not selfvote in Y2014.

[#HBC Larsa]

Mancer is on point with what I've said.

Either I am reading you wrong, or you contradicted yourself. First you claim you saw nothing scummy in Poly's vote, then you argue that his action could be a scum gambit. Earlier on you also said he could be scum trying to avoid getting attention by self-voting. Which is it?

As a sidenote, I hate RVS.

I'm not contradicting mysef. I merely said it could be a scum gambit, not that I individually find it scummy. Generally speaking you do claim miller off the rip, however in my experience, Millers are hardly used. I don't know if SF is more partial to millers, but they're not very good roles. Just deceitful roles, which is why I also counted the fact it could be a gambit.

[Randa]

I see. Still, how is this beneficial for scum? I don't see how Poly's action, through Larsa's perspective, could be beneficial for him.

Also, you've told us that you're sleepy, but you're still guilty of doing the same thing as Randa.

actually im doing this on purpose to amuse myself, mancer is doing it accidentally

[#HBC Larsa]

It's actually scummy. Having a history of weak play doesn't excuse you from doing scummy things. "Mancer being Mancer" is what I'd use to describe something he does as both alignments; here his "content" overreacts to what wasn't even a wagon and contains no actual scumhunting. His opinions are manufactured.

Honestly can't tell what Larsa is trying to say half the time. His Poly vote seemed presented as serious and not a joke when he made it (he did call Poly scummy).

imo Poly's self-vote was bad for what I said here, and the attention-drawing was bad because town shouldn't even want a joke-wagon on them because a reaction from the wagoned player can't possibly affect their read. His recent posts towntell like a motherfucker though, not lynching him as is. idk please do not selfvote in Y2014.

Sigh. What do you want to know? Poly vote was obviously not serious. I answered you in a serious manner because of the question you asked, which was why I chose him. There was a legit answer to that, but fact remains it was a joke vote.

I said it was damning in the way he did it, and presented it could be a scum gambit. Nothing he's done is inherently scummy though. I've said that, and reiterated it.

[Rapier]

The same thing could be said about your refusal to dig deeper into Larsa's case, Mancer. When you commented about it, you stated that you don't like all the attention it is getting. Why shouldn't it be worthy of the active town's attention when more than half of the players aren't here and we have scarce content to discuss about? Aside from that, you did well on questioning other players about their reasons to find Larsa scummy, which is better than what Randa did until now.

[Refa]

Okay why are people taking my vote seriously

That said the claim is legit

because unlike my vote, which served as both a joke about my hating D1 miller claims and claiming it myself, Psych's had no real intent and was pure RVS

I'm not sure what you're finding to be overly scummy about either vote tbh

Pretty sure #HBC Larsa didn't think Psych was scummy.

I don't really like all this attention on Larsa at the moment. I perveived no scum intent from his Poly vote and FWIW, it feels like a normal RVS joke vote FMPOV.

Mancer white knighting isn't scummy because he did a lot of that in the last game from what I remember but it's moreso the tone that seems off to me...like he's way less confident, and that's bothering me.

what do you think about what Prims/Larsa said about Poly's vote?

it's not big but generally you try a lot harder in RVS so it feels weird that you're not really commenting on anything

could say the same about Mancer too

Who is the first sentence at? It's probably obvious but this will bug me for the rest of the day if I don't find out. ;/

I thought Poly wasn't being serious about his claim. I suppose Mafia is too serious business for jokes.

Anyway, I don't see the difference between Poly and Psych's cases. Saying one of them is scummy for self voting but deeming the other selfvoter as ok is an appeal to double standards. Larsa allowed Psych to pass over his scumdar far too easily for my tastes. Also, why is Poly necessarily scum for drawing attention?

Unvote

##Vote: HBC Larsa

/sheepinghard

The difference is Poly justified his selfvote whereas Psych didn't (why that makes Poly look worse, well you'll have to ask #HBC Larsa about that one); agree with everything else you said after the double standards bit.

I'm aware there are posts underneath these which I have kind of skimmed, but I have to go study some more so I'm just awkwardly cutting it off here.

[Prims]

That's fair.

Millers are used moderately on SF. On occasion they've been a mod-given scum fakeclaim in lieu of a Godfather, so it's not really a tell for Poly's alignment. Just means we can't scan him.

Randa if you acknowledge something is anti-town then why are you purposefully doing it, if you are a town......

[MancerNecro]

Why do you justify your vote if it was just a joke vote?

[#HBC dewound]

Vote: Gorf

Vote: Gorf

Haven't read.

[#HBC Larsa]

Why do you justify your vote if it was just a joke vote?

I justified the avenues they were attacking because it could be. I could explain why I chose Poly over Psych. I could also explain that after Refa's jump to conclusions that their could've been alternative intent behind it. Therefore I elaborated more on the possibilities. I never really justified it, I was just claiming the possibility there. Do you not see that it could be a gambit? Am I wrong to assume it could be one?

@Prims: Word. It seems most attack on me is due to misinterpretation. Could be wrong, Refa seems pretty hellbent, albeit with little to no ground.

Refa, why jump to the defense of Poly? What was so telling that you had to attack me over it? Why not Prims who agreed with me? Moreover, why didn't you account the possibility of it being a joke vote? Given the context and wording with my vote.

[Randa]

The same thing could be said about your refusal to dig deeper into Larsa's case, Mancer. When you commented about it, you stated that you don't like all the attention it is getting. Why shouldn't it be worthy of the active town's attention when more than half of the players aren't here and we have scarce content to discuss about? Aside from that, you did well on questioning other players about their reasons to find Larsa scummy, which is better than what Randa did until now.

ive done things

That's fair.

Millers are used moderately on SF. On occasion they've been a mod-given scum fakeclaim in lieu of a Godfather, so it's not really a tell for Poly's alignment. Just means we can't scan him.

Randa if you acknowledge something is anti-town then why are you purposefully doing it, if you are a town......

the half empty bottle of southern comfort on my desk should answer that question.

okay so actually trying to be useful, i dont see any scum intent in poly's self vote. It seems to be a joke, which is gine imo. HRC's response is also fine imo, it questions poly's claim at the same time as questioning why he selfvoted. the problems with this curflufel are mancer and rapier imo. they have posted, and unlike me, have done so about the relevant topic. however i cant really draw any conclusions from there posts. also i think psych should have at least left a joke if he was gonna self vote.

[MancerNecro]

@Rapier: First you say that I am doing the same thing as Randa then you acknowledge that I did something that Randa didn't do. Feels like waffling here to me where Rapier places himself in a position where he can easily decide whether to vote or not to vote me later on in the day.

There isn't much to say about the Larsa case right when I made my post earlier on. I just thought that Larsa's vote seemed like a joke vote and I thought that there was too much attention given to it. I didn't see Larsa's justifications for his vote at that point (cause derp).

@Refa: There isn't anything concrete to be garnered from any of the discussion we've had yet hence why I might seem to not be confident. I hate RVS terribly...

What Prims said (about Randa).

@Larsa: I don't see how it could be a gambit...