Guitar Mafia - Game Over

[#HBC Larsa]

Pretty sure #HBC Larsa didn't think Psych was scummy.

Mancer white knighting isn't scummy because he did a lot of that in the last game from what I remember but it's moreso the tone that seems off to me...like he's way less confident, and that's bothering me.

Who is the first sentence at? It's probably obvious but this will bug me for the rest of the day if I don't find out. ;/

The difference is Poly justified his selfvote whereas Psych didn't (why that makes Poly look worse, well you'll have to ask #HBC Larsa about that one); agree with everything else you said after the double standards bit.

I'm aware there are posts underneath these which I have kind of skimmed, but I have to go study some more so I'm just awkwardly cutting it off here.

Hold up? You can justify a self-vote? Uhm, wha-?. That aside, I didn't find either one of them scummy, as I've said. Pointing out the possibility of a gambit however? See where I'm at? Where I play, MS included, Millers are not common roles. Generally considered poor quality roles, also depending on how many other cop deterrents you have, but anyways, all that aside... When I see a miller claim, it's taken with a grain of salt and I at least like to post something in regards to it to get a response. It would seem scummier to me to leave something like that alone and not try to percieve the intent.

[Rapier]

Mancer white knighting isn't scummy because he did a lot of that in the last game from what I remember but it's moreso the tone that seems off to me...like he's way less confident, and that's bothering me.

How can someone be a white knight and at the same time sound unconfident about their actions? If anything, both terms are conflicting by themselves.

Will Mancer reply to Prims' points regarding his actions? I've yet to see a rebuttal.

[#HBC Larsa]

@Rapier: First you say that I am doing the same thing as Randa then you acknowledge that I did something that Randa didn't do. Feels like waffling here to me where Rapier places himself in a position where he can easily decide whether to vote or not to vote me later on in the day.

There isn't much to say about the Larsa case right when I made my post earlier on. I just thought that Larsa's vote seemed like a joke vote and I thought that there was too much attention given to it. I didn't see Larsa's justifications for his vote at that point (cause derp).

@Refa: There isn't anything concrete to be garnered from any of the discussion we've had yet hence why I might seem to not be confident. I hate RVS terribly...

What Prims said (about Randa).

@Larsa: I don't see how it could be a gambit...

Unless you all use a different version of a miller that I'm not aware of...?

Town Miller to cop shows up as guilty? Gambit would be claim miller D1 as you're supposed to with a Miller role, while actually being scum, so any cop brought attention would be WIFOM or disregarded due to the miller claim. That's why it's a possibility of a gambit. Anyways, like I said, unless you all use a different type of miller... which idk!

[MancerNecro]

A Miller should claim right off the bat so that the cop knows not to scan them and waste one night of his scan action. The claim in itself does not prove that the player is town since the player could be scum fake claiming Miller. That is why we scum hunt through interactions and not through claims (duuh).

@Rapier: I did address the points Prims raised about me in my responses to other players though I admit I should have responded directly to Prims himself.

[Rapier]

@Rapier: First you say that I am doing the same thing as Randa then you acknowledge that I did something that Randa didn't do. Feels like waffling here to me where Rapier places himself in a position where he can easily decide whether to vote or not to vote me later on in the day.

Your content is just as subpar as his. The only difference is that you questioned other people about their vote on Larsa, which is slightly better. This doesn't mean your content is good, nor do I buy your initial refusal to pay attention to Larsa's case until pressed by BBM to do so.

@Randa

If you have any questions about my reads so far, you should ask me. In case I am being too confusing with all my posts, I can sum them up: I'm finding Prims and Refa town because the former's points about Mancer are solid and the latter's scumhunting helped us develop a discussion which is bringing us out of RVS. Larsa doesn't seem bad, he managed to justify himself well and if anything my pressure on him was to develop reads, I didn't find him a strong scum read. Leaning my reads on you and Mancer slightly toward my scum meter because both your contents are lacking, and Mancer only bothered to do something after being pressed by BBM to comment on Larsa's case, which he first handwaved. The rest is neutral.

That said:

Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

I'm comfortable with this until he shows more content.

[#HBC Larsa]

A Miller should claim right off the bat so that the cop knows not to scan them and waste one night of his scan action. The claim in itself does not prove that the player is town since the player could be scum fake claiming Miller. That is why we scum hunt through interactions and not through claims (duuh).

@Rapier: I did address the points Prims raised about me in my responses to other players though I admit I should have responded directly to Prims himself.

....Not sure if serious. That was the point that you just refuted..

##Vote: Mancer

[Rapier]

Larsa, while your answers are fine, you should also try to get out of your defensive stance and start commenting on the rest of the game. What do you think of the current content? The same goes for Poly, who spent his time defending himself and his only contribution to scumhunting was to say Randa isn't being participative enough. Is there really nothing else to comment on?

[Rapier]

derp, your post came like 3 seconds before I submitted mine. Well, omit that part then. Anyway, Mancer's post doesn't sound like a rebuttal to yours. It is more like he wanted to inform you on how things go on SF.

Well, this is all I can do within the current content. I'll need to wait for the inactive players to show up before scumhunting or reading the game properly.

[Randa]

@Randa

If you have any questions about my reads so far, you should ask me. In case I am being too confusing with all my posts, I can sum them up: I'm finding Prims and Refa town because the former's points about Mancer are solid and the latter's scumhunting helped us develop a discussion which is bringing us out of RVS. Larsa doesn't seem bad, he managed to justify himself well and if anything my pressure on him was to develop reads, I didn't find him a strong scum read. Leaning my reads on you and Mancer slightly toward my scum meter because both your contents are lacking, and Mancer only bothered to do something after being pressed by BBM to comment on Larsa's case, which he first handwaved. The rest is neutral.

rapier you do realize southern comfort is a brand of whiskey right. and as ive already said ive put back a half a handle. i will not be asking intellegent questions

[#HBC Larsa]

I understand that, Rapier. This is what I'm talking about:

How can it be a gambit?

...since the player could be scum fake claiming Miller.

His explanation answers his own question; indicative of why I said refuted. Not to his explanation of SF Miller functioning.

[#HBC Larsa]

Aside from Mafia:

rapier you do realize southern comfort is a brand of whiskey right. and as ive already said ive put back a half a handle. i will not be asking intellegent questions

Lol, yeahh probs not. So Co is not my drink though, I think it's only really good for Georgia Peach Teas.

[#HBC dewound]

Notes:

• Psych's self-vote wasn't scummy, it came off an explicit joke and I did not understand where his wagon came from; same impression came from poly.
• Refa's instant read on Prims bothers me in the sense that even if it comes from meta, it feels too soon. I don't think he'll hold to that same opinion throughout the whole phase, but I scratch my head wondering why Psych was the one getting heat while everyone just blindly accepted Refa's left-field read.
• Larsa's reasoning for voting Poly over Psych is good (#31), even if I disagree with thinking it was scummy.
• Mancer's #43 is good regarding Larsa. I know Larsa from the forum we play in and I will say that his style is that of a go-getter from what I've seen of him as town, while as scum he is rather more looking to play to the room and go off whatever is the hot topic at the moment. I liked his assertion on Poly especially.

Mancer posts nothing

here when there's content to discuss then when he makes a serious post it's white-knighting "all the attention" on... a player with one vote (at the time). Furthermore his explanation doesn't explain why they shouldn't be voting Larsa, he just says he disagrees. Scum caught contriving opinions D1 gg sheep me.

I think you're grasping on your read here with mancer, especially in the context of the game we're in now. I don't expect most people here to give me a paragraph on why something is or isn't, and I'm not sure what is so alarming of someone trying to speak up, unless there is scum intent in the fact his motivations weren't readable to you; they were fine for me.

[Refa]

I must know where your avatar is from.

[#HBC dewound]

Are there people really cherrypicking people's amount of 'content' already? This Mancer wagon is shameful.

[Randa]

Are there people really cherrypicking people's amount of 'content' already? This Mancer wagon is shameful.

welcome to sf. where if your meta is spam and you want to change that you must be scum

[#HBC dewound]

Yeah, the initial impression I get from my read is that there are a lot of antsy people who do things first before asking questions, which makes this thread kind of hard to read as I see a lot of things that I would categorize as null already being pushed as scummy, and I'm not sure if that's just how things roll here or people actually believe that.

*cough* Rapier *cough*

[#HBC dewound]

I must know where your avatar is from.

It's from Pixiv, but I forget the source exactly. You could probably reverse image search it to zerochan or something.

[Psych]

wow are we

are we really starting wagons and diving into people based off a self vote

##vote randa for diving into a shallow pool head first

i don't really like #HBC Larsa either

dewound is cool

who the hell are all you people where's eclipse where is shin where is sb

#HBC Larsa more like #HBIC

okay that joke was literally all i had to say here's a post too

[MRDRHAWK]

Okay wow Mancer's pinging me super-hard right now

He seems like he's all over the place with his logic and doesn't seem to be keeping track of what he's saying, which kinda makes me wonder if he's just trying to throw shit out there and hope it sticks. I kinda see that as a scummy tactic imo because there's actual leads to go on here and discussion to be had and it feels like Mancer's doing nothing to add to it.

##Vote: Mancer

I'd make this more detailed, but I'm on my phone and multi-quoting sucks on phone.

[Prims]

dewott I'd rather be gung-ho than sit back voteless and expect scumreads to evolve out of nowhere; shit never works. A vote is not permanent.

I considered Mancer's early posts "contrived white-knighting" because Larsa had one vote and wasn't under any serious threat and "I disagree" doesn't get anything readable out of the anti-Larsa players. Town wants to find scum, "these votes are bad" does nothing to solidify reads on the "bad" players. He did ask a question once called out but Refa and BBM already had explained why they suspected Larsa over Randa, making it shallow.

Also how is Larsa go-getting here? his read on Refa was reactive and it took him time to go anywhere with it (as in asking questions). also also his assertion on Poly is a theory, not a real read he's pushing, so uh basically what you said doesn't reflect in-thread events at all and just looks like you're buddying up to Mancer and Larsa because... because, I guess.

....Not sure if serious. That was the point that you just refuted..

##Vote: Mancer

Why does this make Mancer scum and not silly, as well as scummier than Refa?

welcome to sf. where if your meta is spam and you want to change that you must be scum

Mancer has been unnecessarily spammy in all of one game and nobody here is picking on his spam or lack thereof. What even is this post?

[#HBC dewound]

dewott I'd rather be gung-ho than sit back voteless and expect scumreads to evolve out of nowhere; shit never works. A vote is not permanent.

I considered Mancer's early posts "contrived white-knighting" because Larsa had one vote and wasn't under any serious threat and "I disagree" doesn't get anything readable out of the anti-Larsa players. Town wants to find scum, "these votes are bad" does nothing to solidify reads on the "bad" players. He did ask a question once called out but Refa and BBM already had explained why they suspected Larsa over Randa, making it shallow.

Also how is Larsa go-getting here? his read on Refa was reactive and it took him time to go anywhere with it (as in asking questions). also also his assertion on Poly is a theory, not a real read he's pushing, so uh basically what you said doesn't reflect in-thread events at all and just looks like you're buddying up to Mancer and Larsa because... because, I guess.

Understandable, but I also think it's a good thing to just let the thread progress naturally instead of forcing content, which I somewhat felt you were doing regarding your mancer read.

Your perspective is flawed though, would you rather him not say anything at all? I don't know Mancer's experience but I wouldn't consider him rather the strongest person in the town but perhaps just someone who likes to get his opinions to out there. I see an eagerness to help that I like, not someone who is just idly commenting to get by.

I didn't mention Refa there at all, I'm not sure why you brought that point up? A theory? I don't really understand your choice of words here, in what way is it a theory? It seemed like a read to me, one he backed himself up on that I initially liked. Elaborate more on why you thought it was a theory, and why stating a liking of someone is instantaneously buddying.

[#HBC Larsa]

@Prims #95: I don't think there's a way to equate tat to "dumb or scum" in this since, he said he didn't see how it could be a gambit, and answered his own question with what my point was. Looked like a poor excuse to cherry pick a stance on me after people had called him out.

[#HBC Larsa]

wow are we

are we really starting wagons and diving into people based off a self vote

##vote randa for diving into a shallow pool head first

i don't really like #HBC Larsa either

dewound is cool

who the hell are all you people where's eclipse where is shin where is sb

#HBC Larsa more like #HBIC

okay that joke was literally all i had to say here's a post too

Self votes are terribad, but no one really is. Where do you get that from? There really isn't a wagon derived from that, RVS maybe, now no.

Well hey I don't really like you either! I'll find another date for prom! Nah, but on the reals, let's get some substantiation to those, big dawg.

[Prims]

Your perspective is flawed though, would you rather him not say anything at all? I don't know Mancer's experience but I wouldn't consider him rather the strongest person in the town but perhaps just someone who likes to get his opinions to out there. I see an eagerness to help that I like, not someone who is just idly commenting to get by.

This means all of nothing because it's something that kind of player will try to do as scum to look like town, unless they're Paperblade. What matters is what he's doing in those idle comments.

Ideally he would've been clear about what was wrong with the Larsa attacks and pressed the attackers to clarify accordingly.

I didn't mention Refa there at all, I'm not sure why you brought that point up? A theory? I don't really understand your choice of words here, in what way is it a theory? It seemed like a read to me, one he backed himself up on that I initially liked. Elaborate more on why you thought it was a theory, and why stating a liking of someone is instantaneously buddying.

I disagreed Larsa has been a go-getter and his Refa read being handled passively and not actively was an example why.

Larsa has made it clear on multiple occasions that he didn't find the self-voters scummy. "Not scummy" =/= "town" so what's the clear read here? "Miller claim could be a gambit" is not a read, it's a theory.

"I like these people" when you don't actually have reasons to like them is sleazy - town is going to have either gut or reasons behind liking somebody and a town read isn't something you need to contrive reasons for as town.

Your response to me also still doesn't explain how Larsa has been go-getting so uhhhhh

[#HBC Larsa]

Prims, why call Dewound out on that when he's posting more thoughts than Psycho? He(?) uses the same standard of: I like this, dislike this; all the while having no substantiation of his own.