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why do you hate awakening?


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I don't hate awakening, but it has flaws. My biggest beef are with the supports and some of the character/class design.

The supports feel very repetitive and one-dimensional after a while. The majority of the supports, when looked at on their own, are fairly entertaining. But when looked at as a whole with all the other supports, most of them are about basically the same thing. When you have this many support slots, but the majority of the supports per character being about the same material over and over again and not going beyond their base idea, it feels like a missed opportunity.

Class designs have taken a turn for the worse in terms of the relative practicality of female armor. I use "relative practicality" here since I mean, if literally every design regardless of gender is ridiculous, then I don't really care. But it's not. Male classes have some fairly solid designs that are practical, but female designs, mainly mounts, have graduated from the battle miniskirts of the GBA past and went to the even worse battle panties. For absolutely no reason whatsoever. I'm not talking about stuff like Dark Mage and Sorc. They want to be ridiculous together, that's their thing, I don't have a problem with that. Light classes like SM wanting to show some leg? I don't have a problem with that either. But when heavily armored mounted classes like Great Knight and Wyvern Lord wears fucking battle panties, that's some bullshit right there. Also boobplate? Really? Previous FEs have gotten that "hi here is a female unit they are female" message fine with a single-piece breastplate, regardless of the necessity of that action, while sacrificing neither functionality nor aesthetics. It's a dumb design fallacy that so many even very capable artists fall into, and as a professional I expect better. And there's some classes that, regardless of practicality (I'm sure rocket pauldrons are hardly practical, though), just looks bad.

Character designs are just as hit and miss. Some are very solid, good designs. Others, not so much. Nowi's one of the most major wtf designs. I don't care how old she's supposed to be, characters are created intentionally by designers and developers, and they should not be putting that outfit on someone with a child's body. She dresses that way because she's designed that way, not that it makes sense for her character. Kjelle and Sully are both very skinny for how they're described in text, and while they can be strong and be compact and slim at the same time, they are both described as fairly muscular in text, and it would be a good opportunity to diversify the female playable cast's body types a bit more. Reimi is actually fairly solid looking, and I wish Kjelle was built more like her than the stick she's drawn like. On top of that, aforementioned mounted battle panties aside wrt Sully, She is wearing no pauldrons. While that may be acceptable for a swordmaster whose main line of defense involves avoid (and even they have shoulder protection), that is entirely unacceptable for a mounted knight. Same goes with Cherche's open back. While I'm sure Cherche would look lovely in an open back evening gown at a banquet or something, and that would be entirely appropriate there, Fire Emblem as a series and even Awakening has established that tankier classes have heavier-looking armor, and thus leaving your entire back exposed makes absolutely no sense as a tank unit and especially also given her competence in character. These are just some examples, though. But overall I don't hate FEA certainly. Wouldn't have played the fuck out of it if I did.

yeah im passionate about character design

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First of all I think the title of this thread is a little bit overrated.

I think Awakening isn't hated by most people. There is just too much fan-hype about this game.

It intodruced many people into the FE series for being one of the best 3DS games.

However some FE veterans like me could be disappointed about some issues in this game:

  • always defeat boss or rout missions. Only Tiki's paralogue was interesting ("pseudo-defense-mission"). FE10 showed us, how it has to be!
  • boring story especially the part in Valm. The only emotional moment in this game was Mustafa's death.
  • so many game mechanics of previous FE games are missing (no weapon weight, no ballistas, no anima long range magic, no canto, staffs like sleep...)
  • unbalanced difficulties (the idea of luna skills in lunatic + is just bad)
  • too much fanservice (the reason, I haven't played any DLCs)

I also agree that Falcon Knights have to use swords like in other FE games to make better use of the weapon triangle.

Edited by The Taninator
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The plot was very weak and the characterization sorely lacking. I would have loved to see a focus on less characters (so many characters!) with more attention given to them and the plot/setting rather than time spent gaining more characters. Different win conditions for maps would have been wonderful as well. I never really liked the whole "let's toss in characters from previous games to be playable for no real reason," but that's easy enough to ignore, just like it's easy enough to ignore the less-than-desirable parts of the fanbase (though you get that with everything and I personally haven't seen it any worse for FE:A than other games) That said, I still enjoy the game a lot and I certainly don't hate it.

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I personally felt that the story, in theory, wasn't necessarily bad; it was the execution that was lacking. To me it feels like the story that was used in the final game was an incomplete draft. There are little things, like Gangrel and Walhart's MaMU supports, that indicate that plans existed for everything to be interconnected better, for the story to have more depth and for the antagonists to be more interesting and meaningful, but it seems to me that what ultimately happened is that they ended up designing the story as it's presented in-game around a basic plot summary someone wrote, and then added in extra chapters (most noticeable in the Valm arc) just to pad it out.

I'm also really not a fan of the Risen, because as they are they don't really serve much of a purpose in the plot other than as essentially an extension of Grima's will, and chapter 13 is the only chapter that uses them as the main enemy force that doesn't end up feeling like the devs were just using them as an excuse to not have to write a (remotely interesting) plot for that chapter. Although, in their defense, there have been plenty of Fire Emblem bosses that didn't have much character to them at all, (Imil from Path of Radiance's Chapter 6 comes to mind immediately, but I'm sure there are plenty of others).

People have already torn into the gameplay flaws, so I won't go into those here.

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I never really felt like any of the FE games I've played(the US localized ones) have ever had very compelling stories. The lords are generic, but the straight-forward good vs evil ruler is still satisfactory.

The things that really bugged me were:

Missions: What happened to the survive for x turns, win in x turns, take the throne, rescue villagers, or ANYTHING else?

Pair-ups: Pair-ups are an interesting new feature and I think it brings a fresh feel to FE. My only problem is that enemies don't do it as well! Instead of giving enemies absurdly high stats, why not just let them pair up? (I'd probably cry if thronie could proc a dual guard) This would force players to reconsider their pair-ups. The threat of a sniper support against your dark flier lead.

Fog of War: What happened to night battles? No high ground vs low ground, no torch or sight advantage for flying units on... you know MOUNTAINS? Seeing the movements of the entire enemy force is a little silly.

Canto: Maybe it was OP, but I kept messing this up in my first playthrough. I kept expecting Sully and Stahl to be able to move after attacking. I miss being able to chip at chokepoints with mounted units.

Rescue: This staff needs a nerf or removal. Combined with Galeforce and a dancer, you can do some silly things. At least it wasn't as game-breaking as warp staff though.

Pay2Win: DLC usage in game is flat-out overpowered. The need to be regulated in some way to prevent grinding and winning through raw strength.

Logbook/Spotpass: Little to no thought was given to how badly this can faceroll story mode. Access to exotic weapons and capped characters from Chapter 4 onwards?

I understand that you can self-impose no-grind or limit DLC skills on your playthroughs, but it takes away from the accomplishments. They need to implement a mode restricting many of the unbalanced features, because the features themselves have many fun Easter eggs for veteran FE fans, but they're simply too strong for players looking for the challenge. Casual mode should let players that don't want a difficult experience abuse these features, but not on Lunatic.

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Pay2Win: DLC usage in game is flat-out overpowered. The need to be regulated in some way to prevent grinding and winning through raw strength.

You know, how is this a determent?

This is the problem I have with veterans.

If you want to roflstomp the game with DLC, you should be able to.

It is OPTIONAL.

I want them to utilize the existence of Casual vs. Classic mode. Classic mode should have no map grinding or shops, event tiles, DLC access, reclassing, unlimited supports, etc. until AFTER THE GAME HAS BEEN CLEARED. I don't care if they want to give the series some post game fun, but players who pick classic shouldn't have to limit themselves a thousand different ways just to get a somewhat well balanced experience during the main play through. If people insist on keeping that crap in this series, then let's let the casual players have their fun in casual mode.

This is in addition to pretty much everything else that's been said in this topic.

Yo, the person that posted above me.

Why should a single mode restrict the freedom of people to utilize the resources they have, even if they're unlimited?

Permadeath is permadeath. It should not dictate other features just because classic "should appeal only to the hardcore audience" that you're implying.

And?

Why are you complaining about people trivializing their own experience for an optional part of the game?

Why should they conform to the standards of the hardcore audience, when they themselves can restrict what they want to do?

You're saying they can't take care of themselves.

What if they WANT to trivialize the game? What if that's FUN for them?

AND they want the permadeath feature on?

What if I'm on Lunatic+ Classic AND going completely no-grind is too much for me?

I want permadeath still on, but still at a level that is PLEASANT to me.

How about that? Are you going to tell me that I don't deserve to play Lunatic+ Classic like that?

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that FE should stay a single player game.

Not everything has to have a multiplayer mode. Considering how there's a horrendous amount of rebalancing in order for an extra feature.

Honestly if the game can be beaten without grinding on all difficulties by a skilled enough player, then the existence of grinding shouldn't be an issue. As long as it's fully optional I don't see an issue with there having some options if people find that fun.

Anyway I'm mostly critical about the non-gameplay aspect but I think enough people have heard of my so many supports and not enough variation in content spiel I won't go into detail about it.

While "options" are always nice in theory, it's impossible to create a well balanced game when you're trying to cater to everyone's individual preferences. Let's face it - this game has serious issues regarding difficulty curves and balancing. The developers were unable to find that sweetspot between "lol everything breaks the game" and "completely luck-based sadism", and I can't help but feel this was the direct result of giving the player too many damn ways to play the game. I know that sounds "narrow-minded", "archaic", or whatnot to many of you, but I don't think it's a coincidence that this game is the one with both the most "options" and the worst balancing in the series.

If they can make the next game with the same "options" but with thought-provoking level design & enemy placement, fair but challenging difficulty (an issue for most games in the series, but let's get it a liiiittle closer to the pre-DS days), etc, I'll gladly eat my words. I just don't see such a thing happening.

Games are meant for people's enjoyment. It's first and foremost a means of entertainment. It does not have to be perfectly balanced. Balance is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but some times overbalance can detract from the fun factor, and you really want games to be fun. Now, everyone has a different metric of fun, so having options allows the game to feel fun for more people, and that's what's important. Especially considering that this is a single player game and all, who the fuck cares? It's not like games with actual multiplayer where you need to ensure more balance for the fairness of all player's options etc. Don't like something? Don't use it. Nobody's stopping you.

Maybe the devs could add some type of checkbox type of thing in a side options menu for the people seriously lacking self control but still want to play the hardest mode with none of the optional stuff. Or something. Actually turning risen spawning off would be grand. I hate when they spawn and thus blocked my second seal shopping experiences.

Games are meant for people's enjoyment. It's first and foremost a means of entertainment.

Logbook/Spotpass: Little to no thought was given to how badly this can faceroll story mode. Access to exotic weapons and capped characters from Chapter 4 onwards?

I understand that you can self-impose no-grind or limit DLC skills on your playthroughs, but it takes away from the accomplishments.

OH NO. I CAN'T FEEL AS SPECIAL IS I COULD WITH OTHER GAMES WHEN COMPARING MYSELF TO OTHER PEOPLE.

The developers didn't recognize my specific needs and force it on other people including casuals. Weh.

That's called elitism.

Casual mode should let players that don't want a difficult experience abuse these features, but not on Lunatic.

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HOW DARE PEOPLE SCREW AROUND IN MY DIFFICULTY LEVEL.

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99999 Gold and max stat units with all their skills before Postgame?

What a HEINOUS CRIME.

Edited by shadowofchaos
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To me, Awakening is a good game, but it is a bad Fire Emblem game. I feel like future installments of the game will follow in its footsteps.

Pair-up is stupid, and way too over-powered. The traditional 3-tile-radius support bonus was much better.

The whole avatar thing is fine, but including him/her as a major piece of the plot was terrible. It made the avatar the biggest Mary Sue/Gary Stu in the history of videogames. Gameplay-wise, the avatar is a little too over-powered.

The over-powered avatar and pair-up mechanic takes almost all of the strategy out of the game. Every chapter becomes a question of "where should I position my Super ORKO monster for the fastest clear?"

Lunatic and Lunatic+ are more cheap than they are hard.

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The story

The maps

The gameplay itself was rather shallow for an FE game

The repetition

The characters

Except Severa, of course.

Edited by Cancer Lancer
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The biggest beef I have with the game is the bugs (ie. voice bug and Streetpass bug) that showed up during localization, especially in the NA version of the game (that to this day and time of writing are still unpatched).

I can see why people hate the story and supports but... there's the Start button for your convenience as well as the rapid-scroll Down + A button combination for stuff like conversations. Also, Fire Emblem Awakening is a game, first and foremost. If you want a story, you might want to consider investing in (e-)books.

DLC -- that's optional -- your choice to blow your money on that stuff as well as use the free Wireless stuff like the Avatar Logbook and Spotpass content. I honestly have fun br8k1n6 the game to pieces, especially on Lunatic+ Classic.

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Have you played Awakening? This is... just plain wrong. Sure, your starting Pegs don't have amazing Magic, but they still have a bazillion Move. And Rescue. And are guaranteed to have access to a class with Galeforce. Please tell me you can do this math. Please.

Rhetorical question backfire- you are in fact talking to the one person on SF who is notorious for having no experience with all but the easiest things Awakening has to offer.

No offense, Ana.

Pay2Win: DLC usage in game is flat-out overpowered. The need to be regulated in some way to prevent grinding and winning through raw strength.

Logbook/Spotpass: Little to no thought was given to how badly this can faceroll story mode. Access to exotic weapons and capped characters from Chapter 4 onwards?

If Awakening was a multiplayer game, this would be a big problem.

It's not. But you seem to think it's a problem anyway, so let's look at what would happen if this stuff was actually regulated.

Let's make a rule that DLC and Spotpass are banned 'til you've unlocked Grima in Lunatic(+). That sounds fair, no more abusing DLC and stuff, right?, Well, actually you could still use it for the Paralogues- better ban it until you've completed those, too. Of course, that involves getting all the children, which involves lots of building supports. Maybe you're a boss and can get all the children in nogrind, but you likely aren't and have to use the Risen.

Oh yeah, Risen- a free source of exp, weapons, support points and Gold. Let's ban those too. And the Barracks, too random. Better take out event tiles too. Congratulations, you've just made it possible to make it impossible to unlock postgame. However, it was a necessary casualty to help balance the game. See where I'm going with this?

Next I'll wind up banning pairup, and then I'll ban certain skills because they're OP, and then I'll ban more skills because they were the next best thing and are now the new OP, and eventually I'll ban skills alltogether because it creates imbalance when some units get lots of skills normally and others have all theirs banned.

OK, units are fairly balanced now, right? No, Sorc is still OP thanks to Nos. Gotta ban Nos. Those Regalia are also pretty spiffy, as are forged weapons, and effective weapons, and Falchion's infinite uses are getting on my nerves, and whoops, I've banned all the weapons in the game. Now it's completely unbeatable, but it's still not balanced yet because different units have different growth rates and some are better than others! Let's normalize all the growths. Set them all to 50. Seems fair. Let's also give all the units the same starting class, class set and mods, to further take away from unit discrepancy. Might as well have them all join in the Prologue too so none of them are favored by join times either. You know what this looks like right now? A pre-alpha version of the game.

Too much heavy-handedness in "balancing" done by restriction only will only result in an unplayable mess. Maybe you think Awakening is a mess already, maybe it is, but it's a playable mess, and there's a big difference. I personally have no problems regarding self-restraint in terms of grinding and DLC, and even if I did it wouldn't even be a bad thing so long as I'm having fun. Is my sense of self-esteem going to be damaged by completing "challenge runs" in which I don't grind? Only if my skin is thinner than wet paper and I try to brag about doing it. On the contrary, I enjoy having the ability to limit myself in my gameplay options, forcing me to come up with new strategies, or to go all out and smash things for a bit.

While challenge runs are fun and all, not using DLC isn't one of them. Everyone (well, most everyone) has some basic rules they play by in the game in order to have fun. I never use Sorcs because I find them offensive, and this holds true for normal gameplay and challenges. Do I feel the need to mention it every time I define a challenge I'm doing? No, because restrictions you take on aren't status symbols (if they were, I'd ask for a standing ovation right now for never using some obscure Spotpass character that nobody uses).

So please think twice before complaining about powerful optional features. And then look a second time and see how much Lunatic(+) actually did restrict: enemies can't be milked for exp, Spotpass teams don't give exp or Wexp, and Risen are strong enough that fighting them not only makes the game harder, but is prohibitively difficult even to someone who's already very comfortable with the difficulty as-is. Spotpass/Renown items and units can't be unlocked until Cht.3 is completed, and no DLC 'til Cht.4. To many people, this completely shuts down attempts to stomp the game with grinding, and I think it's enough.

The (sort of) lack of an aftergame

Wuuut.

Even with no DLC or even Spotpass, Awakening has the best postgame of the series so far. Other than that, only Sacred Stones has had anything remotely resembling a postgame.

Awakening's postgame with all that stuff is one of the best I've ever played on a handheld system (only Pokemon immediately stands out as better).

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I'm sure it's been done, bu it's not very entertaining- all you'll get is a difficulty spike at the start while Avatar gets rolling, and then it'll be roughly the same once he/she gets warmed up until lategame and especially Grima.

Basically it would make the hard parts of Lunatic harder without having much of an impact on the easy parts.

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I don't dislike Awakening,but some stuff gets on my nerves a bit.The story was hyped up until the climax,which is one of the worst climaxes I've seen in an RPG.I mean,Golden Sun:Dark Dawn's was better then Awakening.Lunatic(+) was an extreme difficulty jump from Hard,which is relatively easy.Add on the fact it is impossible to grind early game-scratch that,sometimes even late game-which is one of the big things in hard mode RPGs.The way the Avatar can also switch to any class,with females getting the female exclusive ones and males getting the male exclusive ones allows for a nearly game breaking set(possibly).The supports were kinda bland and easy to get.Some maps are extremely easy while some are just a plain bore.Otherwise,I liked Awakening.Not as good as FE7 in my mind,but still good.

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I'm sure it's been done, bu it's not very entertaining- all you'll get is a difficulty spike at the start while Avatar gets rolling, and then it'll be roughly the same once he/she gets warmed up until lategame and especially Grima.

Basically it would make the hard parts of Lunatic harder without having much of an impact on the easy parts.

Robin's no special snowflake in No Pair Up lol (well for combat anyways; 10/15 for Rally Spectrum OP).

Edited by Refa
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I don't dislike Awakening, it's probably in my upper half of FE games. I play Fire Emblem for the gameplay- a good story is optional for me, and Awakening doesn't have one, but it does have fun maps even though some unit/ class balance was pretty bad. The gameplay is good and that's what I'm here for.

Edited by Reinfleche
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well this seems to have escalated quickly still though it makes me wonder if anyone else wants another fe the kicks your arse as much radiant dawn

That's what happens when you ask a question in your thread title that specifically appeals to people who have a problem with the game.

The only thing I dislike about Awakening is the sheer amount of whining I see about it. The story isn't the best thing ever (which is one of the few things I agree with in this thread)? I'm fine with that, I bought it for the gameplay. Certain things trivializing the gameplay? They can be omitted. I think the characters suck? I'll play Casual, and kill them as many times as I see fit.

Awakening isn't perfect by a long shot. And that's okay in my books, because I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for something that I find fun.

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Assuming people hate Awakening is pretty dumb. As basically everyone said, dislike is more appropriate.

As for me... I can't say I dislike the game. The clock does not lie. The 300+ hours I've put into the game wouldn't be there if I hated the game. I have griped with it tho.

The story. It's awful. It's so, so awful. It manages to play out like a bad fan fiction and shit on two continuities at the same time. Sheesh. Though I don't think it is bad as New Mystery's retconning of Marth's bestest friend forever.

... And that's it. Everything else is spot on but that story, damn it.

I feel like there are a few things that can be improved on though.

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Robin's no special snowflake in No Pair Up lol (well for combat anyways; 10/15 for Rally Spectrum OP).

How is being available from the Prologue and having all classes, exceptional growths, dual weapon types and the possibility for two children not special, whether you have Veteran or not?

Sure, Avatar loses a bit more from no pairup than everyone else, but it doesn't stop him/her from still being ahead of the pack.

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Just remember that the hackneyed aspects of the story can probably be chalked up to Intelligent thinking there was an excellent chance this would be the last FE game at all; might as well make the possible end as optimistic as possible. It also explains the wide range of choices and the ridiculous swarm of pairing possibilities. That last bit REALLY feels amorphous to me, to the point that I'm currently trying to figure out a way to winnow EVERYBODY'S pairing possibilities to the same 4+Robin situation as Chrom and Sumia (as in which ones make the most sense; I can already tell you that Stahl*Nowi and Virion*Lissa do NOT make the grade).

For the record, I've never felt like I was in the position of the main character in ANY game. I feel more like the director than the lead actor, no matter what. Probably because I feel like I'm supposed to internalize the psyches of all the protagonists...(Not to mention my inherent dislike for Silent Protagonists. Some artistry...)

Support blandness probably can be ascribed to the luckless authors having to deal with the sheer number of possible pairings. Somewhere over 144 for just the first generation, I believe? They were dooming themselves from the onset...

Anyway, I don't expect pairing amorphousness from the next FE; it was here mostly for customizing the second generation (and/or giving the Crack Pairing specialists a bit of meta-fanservice). And now that FE is actually in genuine popularity (I do believe this is the only game to have had notable commercial success?), I'm expecting that Intelligent can re-integrate some of the advanced elements from other games.

(Just...no more making characters that are supposed to represent the player, hm? Remember: director, not actor. Intelligent would be the scriptwriter.)

EDIT: And hopefully no class formations as amorphous as Robin and Morgan's, either; even most of the ways the second generation can get extra classes overwhelms me a little. The variation in the first generation (less Robin) is PLENTY; that should be some kind of Mohs-10 ceiling for character customization.

Edited by SkyknightXi
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