Fire Emblem theories, rumors, timeline, and conspiracies.

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

I feel the need to reiterate that it is impossible to put all games in the same timeline and make much sense out of it because their legends and creation myths are conflicting.

- The Judgral and Archanea/Valentia timelines feel a bit awkwardly stitched together at their creation myth - it offers no explanation as to why Naga allowed the Loptyr Empire to happen when she had already fought Earth Dragons and created a weapon for humans to defeat them, for example;

The Loptyr Empire happened first. The Loptyr empire's defeat came about at a time when all dragons save Forseti were pretty reluctant to help humans-- from the sound of it, Naga wasn't 100% on the Help Humanity train yet. Plus the creation of the Falchion and Shield of Seals coincided with Naga's "death," at which point only three divine dragons were even left alive, so the creation of Falchion can't pre-date the first Holy War.

Based off all that, the Miracle of Darna that gave the Jugdral crusaders their powers happened before things on Archanea went completely to hell from a dragonkin perspective.

[Jotari]

The Loptyr Empire happened first. The Loptyr empire's defeat came about at a time when all dragons save Forseti were pretty reluctant to help humans-- from the sound of it, Naga wasn't 100% on the Help Humanity train yet. Plus the creation of the Falchion and Shield of Seals coincided with Naga's "death," at which point only three divine dragons were even left alive, so the creation of Falchion can't pre-date the first Holy War.

Based off all that, the Miracle of Darna that gave the Jugdral crusaders their powers happened before things on Archanea went completely to hell from a dragonkin perspective.

I'vealways assumed Naga died but I can't recall from where the info came. Where exactly does it say Naga died and of what?

[VincentASM]

From what I can read about the taguel, they used to be a big civilization and humans were not dominant; this alone makes it impossible to place their past anywhere in a franchise-wide timeline because we can't pinpoint any single point the humans were not the dominant race in the franchise. It's hard to even place their past considering only Archanea and Ylisse because mankind was already dominant in Archanea but there were no taguel anywhere, while taguel already existed as slaves in the beginning of Ylisse. It doesn't quite work to have mankind lose power between Archanea and Ylisse for no reason and there's not enough time for that either.

Do you know where this is mentioned in-game? I'm quite interested.

The Taguel in Ylisse always bugged me. There are quite a few inconsistencies between the histories of Ylisse and Archanea and I always wondered if Ylisse wasn't just future Archanea, but an alternate universe Archanea as well.

[BrightBow]

I'vealways assumed Naga died but I can't recall from where the info came. Where exactly does it say Naga died and of what?

It's from Mystery of the Emblem, Chapter 12:

Narga felt pity for the humans that could not protect themselves so he crafted it from his own fang.

The sword was sealed within Raman Temple, along with the shield.

And a powerful spell was cast on the temple, so that only Divine Dragons could enter it.

After that, Narga left behind a will to his own people, which was to protect mankind.

Finally, he placed the newly born Chiki into a deep sleep, thus ending the remaining 5000 years of his life

The New Mystery translation since it has a different take on the "5000 years" line:

Naga took pity on you humans, with no way of protecting yourselves, so she created it from one of her fangs. Then, together with the shield, she sealed it in the fane, and had the remainin' dragon houses watch over humanity. She put the newly born Tiki to sleep and thus ended her 5,000-year life.

No idea what the actual cause of her death is.

Edited November 10, 2014 by BrightBow

[Shinehollow]

This would be more successful if it happened like the Legend of Zelda timeline where there are actually two different timelines (or was it three?) or something of the sort; however, since we only have five FE worlds so far it would be kind of pointless to do so, specially when Tellius and Elibe are so clearly their own thing. It would be a matter of slapping Magvel in some timeline, to be honest.

Magvel could lead to the three/two branching timelines because with the lack of knowledge of its past before and about 8 centuries after the demon king would make it impossible to be put into a timeline with other games before hand.that said,the lack of knowledge we have after the second War of the Stones makes it impossible to have games after it in the timeline.

[Axie]

The Loptyr Empire happened first. The Loptyr empire's defeat came about at a time when all dragons save Forseti were pretty reluctant to help humans-- from the sound of it, Naga wasn't 100% on the Help Humanity train yet. Plus the creation of the Falchion and Shield of Seals coincided with Naga's "death," at which point only three divine dragons were even left alive, so the creation of Falchion can't pre-date the first Holy War.

Based off all that, the Miracle of Darna that gave the Jugdral crusaders their powers happened before things on Archanea went completely to hell from a dragonkin perspective.

That makes sense, but whoever made that timeline in the Fire Emblem Wiki put Naga creating the Falchion right after defeating the Earth Dragons, in the same year Loptyr and Bishop Galle make their blood pact, which ruins the whole "Naga wasn't sure about helping humanity" thing of Jugdral if we are to assume Judgral and Archanea are connected.

With this resolved (someone could edit the timeline to fix this), it's actually not that hard to put Judgral and Archanea together because their creation myths are very similar (dragons fighting and eventually helping mankind). Kaga knew what he was doing back then, I suppose!

Do you know where this is mentioned in-game? I'm quite interested.

The Taguel in Ylisse always bugged me. There are quite a few inconsistencies between the histories of Ylisse and Archanea and I always wondered if Ylisse wasn't just future Archanea, but an alternate universe Archanea as well.

It's in Panne and Ricken's A Support, apparently:

Panne: You just wont take stony silence for an answer, will you? Ive met some taguel who become lions, and others who turned into wolves.

Ricken: No way! Thats great! I bet they were really strong!

Panne: A long time ago, my mother used to tell me the tale of a certain tribal leader... This was back when taguel ruled the world and lived in an earthly paradise. Before everything changed and our way of life was wiped out forever.

There is no way for taguel to have ever ruled Archanea because humans were there from day one, unless their earthly paradise happened before humans, but then that makes no sense with the other Awakening claim that the guy who founded Ylisse gave the taguel a better life, because the taguel would need to be kept as slaves or pets during the entire Archanea timeline and they obviously don't exist there.

The more I read about it the more it looks like the taguel were a very gratuitous and not very well thought-out shoutout to the laguz in Tellius. Their existence is a big thing getting in the way of Ylisse being future Archanea.

Magvel could lead to the three/two branching timelines because with the lack of knowledge of its past before and about 8 centuries after the demon king would make it impossible to be put into a timeline with other games before hand.that said,the lack of knowledge we have after the second War of the Stones makes it impossible to have games after it in the timeline.

The post-Second War future that makes it impossible for other games to come after Magvel, it's the other games's creation myths that do: all of them assume mankind and dragons/laguz meeting for the first time, so they all need to be the first games in their timelines.

Magvel is the only Fire Emblem world without a solid creation myth, so they are the easiest to include as the future version of some other world; they even have a lack of dragons, with only Morva and Myrrh existing, so they can easily be the future of any of the other worlds because you could say dragons just slowly died out. All one needs to do is to explain Demon King's existence and the monsters that came with him.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Axie

[VincentASM]

There is no way for taguel to have ever ruled Archanea because humans were there from day one, unless their earthly paradise happened before humans, but then that makes no sense with the other Awakening claim that the guy who founded Ylisse gave the taguel a better life, because the taguel would need to be kept as slaves or pets during the entire Archanea timeline and they obviously don't exist there.

The more I read about it the more it looks like the taguel were a very gratuitous and not very well thought-out shoutout to the laguz in Tellius. Their existence is a big thing getting in the way of Ylisse being future Archanea.

Well, it's just one thing. Another is the Earth Dragons going missing from the Dragon's Table and why on earth did they break the Binding Shield again?

There are too many weird things, IMO, for Ylisse and Archanea to be directly connected.

Actually, Panne's remark made me realise something. She never specified that the Taguel exited on Ylisse, right? They could have been in an Outrealm, like the one Priam came from.

Also the comment about Taguels changing forever, makes me wonder if it's referring to the same catastrophe that caused Manaketes to go extinct...

[Misses Elise-chan!]

I feel the need to reiterate that it is impossible to put all games in the same timeline and make much sense out of it because their legends and creation myths are conflicting.

- The Judgral and Archanea/Valentia timelines feel a bit awkwardly stitched together at their creation myth - it offers no explanation as to why Naga allowed the Loptyr Empire to happen when she had already fought Earth Dragons and created a weapon for humans to defeat them, for example;

- Tellius and Elibe have pretty distinct creation myths (Ashunera and the Scouring, respectively) that disallow any other game to fit in because Tellius has the Laguz from the beginning and all other universes have little to no sign of them and Elibe has a war between mankind and dragonkind after their first contact and puts dragons in some weird outrealm;

- Magvel is impossible to analyse because we know nothing about its past before the Demon King, but nothing in any of the other universes could possibly explain the Demon King existing, either.

This would be more successful if it happened like the Legend of Zelda timeline where there are actually two different timelines (or was it three?) or something of the sort; however, since we only have five FE worlds so far it would be kind of pointless to do so, specially when Tellius and Elibe are so clearly their own thing. It would be a matter of slapping Magvel in some timeline, to be honest.

I'm not saying that every continent takes place on the same planet or world. When I said Radiant Path takes place in between Shadow Dragon and Awakening, I meant Ike and Michaihs story, not the legends. This applies to everything I said. Elibe and Tellius could take place in a different world or a different continent in the same world.

Someone tell me how long ago was Tellius's flood, this could reveal if Ike lived in the same world as the Hero King.

[Jotari]

I'm not saying that every continent takes place on the same planet or world. When I said Radiant Path takes place in between Shadow Dragon and Awakening, I meant Ike and Michaihs story, not the legends. This applies to everything I said. Elibe and Tellius could take place in a different world or a different continent in the same world.

Someone tell me how long ago was Tellius's flood, this could reveal if Ike lived in the same world as the Hero King.

About 800 years ago. http://serenesforest.net/general/timelines/path-of-radiance-radiant-dawn/official/

Also something not mentioned on that timeline, based on Lehran's comment of Ashera being asleep for 780 years, she was likely sealed around -130, right when Altina found Begnion. So almost a decade could have passed in-between the three events of the Great Flood, sealing Yune and Ashera going to sleep.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Jotari

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

That makes sense, but whoever made that timeline in the Fire Emblem Wiki put Naga creating the Falchion right after defeating the Earth Dragons, in the same year Loptyr and Bishop Galle make their blood pact, which ruins the whole "Naga wasn't sure about helping humanity" thing of Jugdral if we are to assume Judgral and Archanea are connected.

With this resolved (someone could edit the timeline to fix this), it's actually not that hard to put Judgral and Archanea together because their creation myths are very similar (dragons fighting and eventually helping mankind). Kaga knew what he was doing back then, I suppose!

The more I read about it the more it looks like the taguel were a very gratuitous and not very well thought-out shoutout to the laguz in Tellius. Their existence is a big thing getting in the way of Ylisse being future Archanea.

Yeah, without knowing offhand who edited the timeline and what their sources were, it's hard to hang a lot on the wiki. It's hard enough dealing with all Kaga's interviews and notes and such, some of which don't seem to add up. But Jugdral and Archanea are connected per the word of the main guy who thought them up. That's not an assumption on our part-- a lot of it is laid out here, including Naga's reluctance to help humans versus Forseti's desire to aid them.

FE4/5>>>FE1/FE2/FE3 is the one part of the continuity chain that's dead certain, IMO, and if Kaga had been allowed to release Tear Ring Saga as an FE spinoff that game's continent would've been another addition to the same planet.

I don't think much of anything about Ylisse was very well-thought-out, really...

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Anyone disagree with my timeline? I think it's spot on.

Theory of the day. Anna's sisters aren't really her sisters. Her sisters are really just the result of her multiple visits to the Outrealms. Anna is her sisters. This also explains how Anna got to the other continents of Elibe, Tellius, Magvel, and Jugdral. Some how by going back through time and travelling between worlds she ended up making more copies of herself.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Rabbattack

[VincentASM]

I can totally buy the Anna theory.

Maybe she loses part of her memory each time she time travels?

I mean we had Morgan and FE7 Tactician (lol, totally the same person) losing their memory after traveling.

Perhaps it happens because there's already the same person there, ala...

Grima and Avatar.

[Misses Elise-chan!]

New theory, Morgan is actually younger Robin.

[VincentASM]

New theory, Morgan is actually younger Robin.

Wrong gender though.

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Theories of the day.

Grima is the result of a mass fusion between every single Earth Dragon that was sealed within the Dragon's Table.

Both the Binding Shield (now called the Flame Pedestal), and the Dragon's Table both have completely different functions. In addition, none of the Earth Dragons actually appear, despite the Binding Shield being incomplete and Medeus swearing that he and his clan will return when the shield itself returns to incompleteness.

"The Avatar is the descendant of the My Unit (Kris) and Katarina from Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem ~Heroes of Light and Shadow~"

It's a common trope in various media that the protagonist of the sequel with time skips is some how related to his/her predecessor from the prequel.

The Avatar may gotten his/her natural ability to formulate combat strategies from Katarina who was studying to become a Tactician at the time. The ability to use magic probably also came from her too.

That and Kris and Marth's A Support in Heroes of Light and Shadow has them wondering if their decendants will be friends too.

Source: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/FireEmblemAwakening

Edited November 11, 2014 by Rabbattack

[MCProductions]

The existence of at least 3 out realm gates explains a lot to me(archaenea/ylisse,(out realm gate)

elibe (dragons gate), and tellius(however Priam got to ylisse))

The elibe series happens first however the ending winter ONLY affects elibe, the dragons flea thru the out realm gate and reach archaenea and(speculation warning) magvel (in small numbers) magvel retains ignorance of outside realms however and these few dragons settle in darkling woods. SS happens followed by jugdral series. Again the wars of the stones are unnoticed by outside realms. After the events of the jugdral games comes the archaenea series followed by the tellius series. Post tellius series groups of laguz arrive in archaenea thru whatever tellius's out realm gate is and fight a war with the humans of that continent. this war becomes known as the schism as mentioned by basillio in awakening. During this these migrant laguz degenerate similar to the manaketes and become the taguel. The countries of ylisse, plegia, and regna ferox are also founded. I assume this is when ylisse and plegia were founded anyway. And thus we end with awakening.

In short blazing sword>binding blade>sacred stones>gen 1 of the holy war>thracia 776>gen 2 of the holy war>shadow dragon>gaiden>mystery of the emblem> path of radiance> radiant dawn> awakening

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Theory of the day: The Emmeryn you recruit is actually from the Outrealms.

[NinjaMonkey]

The Laguz, Manakete and Taguel are easier to theorise. People were already speculating that the Laguz became the Taguel given all the background info in Awakening, like the Lion, Wolf, Hawk Taguel mentioned in dialogue.

Then the Awakening game code outright has the Taguel labelled as Laguz, so it's almost unarguable at this point.

It's likely at one point in time, the Dragon Laguz evolved into the Manakete, while the Beast and Bird Laguz became the Taguel. Or maybe they didn't evolve and "Manakete" and "Taguel" are just new names, like how the Zunanma were once one, before they adopted new names (Beorc and Laguz).

If Dragon Laguz evolved into Manaketes why aren't Manaketes weak to Thunder Magic? Also, why aren't Panne and Yarne weak to Fire Magic?

Edited November 16, 2014 by NinjaMonkey

[Misses Elise-chan!]

If Dragon Laguz evolved into Manaketes why aren't Manaketes weak to Thunder Magic? Also, why aren't Panne and Yarne weak to Fire Magic?

Don't delve to deep into gameplay mechanics.

[Jotari]

If Dragon Laguz evolved into Manaketes why aren't Manaketes weak to Thunder Magic? Also, why aren't Panne and Yarne weak to Fire Magic?

Because of evolution.

[CT075]

If Dragon Laguz evolved into Manaketes why aren't Manaketes weak to Thunder Magic? Also, why aren't Panne and Yarne weak to Fire Magic?

if gameplay-lore consistency was a thing why did wyvern riders suddenly change their magic weakness from wind to thunder

[NinjaMonkey]

Because of evolution.

These aren't pokemon, you know.

[Jotari]

These aren't pokemon, you know.

I mean real evolution like we're talking about. Pokemon don't evolve, they metamorphosize.

[Misses Elise-chan!]

The existence of at least 3 out realm gates explains a lot to me(archaenea/ylisse,(out realm gate)

elibe (dragons gate), and tellius(however Priam got to ylisse))

The elibe series happens first however the ending winter ONLY affects elibe, the dragons flea thru the out realm gate and reach archaenea and(speculation warning) magvel (in small numbers) magvel retains ignorance of outside realms however and these few dragons settle in darkling woods. SS happens followed by jugdral series. Again the wars of the stones are unnoticed by outside realms. After the events of the jugdral games comes the archaenea series followed by the tellius series. Post tellius series groups of laguz arrive in archaenea thru whatever tellius's out realm gate is and fight a war with the humans of that continent. this war becomes known as the schism as mentioned by basillio in awakening. During this these migrant laguz degenerate similar to the manaketes and become the taguel. The countries of ylisse, plegia, and regna ferox are also founded. I assume this is when ylisse and plegia were founded anyway. And thus we end with awakening.

In short blazing sword>binding blade>sacred stones>gen 1 of the holy war>thracia 776>gen 2 of the holy war>shadow dragon>gaiden>mystery of the emblem> path of radiance> radiant dawn> awakening

Manaketes could have been plentiful in Magvel and degenerated by the time of Awakening.

[Axie]

Manaketes are without a doubt NOT plentiful in Magvel considering there are only Myrrh and Morva in the storyline and the latter is the Great Dragon of legends so there were probably not many of them in the past either or they would be mentioned.