Dreamed up a new mechanic last night, yay or nay?

[Magical Glace]

So I had a dream last night...

It was set in no particular chapter of FE10, probably closest to an unseen portion of Part I, but the Crimean Royal Knights were teamed with the Liberators, and Laguz enemies (including Black Dragons for whatever reason) were plenty. But that's unimportant context.

The enemies were affected by "noise" so to speak. As in, they would only move from their positions around the dinner table/etc. if they heard a lot of player units. So if you had several units grouped together passing through their area, they would notice you and attack. Not only that, they would call for backup, from nearby rooms that the player could enter if they chose, a sort of mini map in a map, complete with its own chests, enemies who could also switch maps via the entrance/exit, and terrain. They would also move slightly in the PPhrase if they were not bothered, though the difference is negligible.

(Attacking also got their attention btw.)

Personally, I'm not sure what to think of what my subconscious cooked up. On one hand, it does add the decision "charge recklessly for fewer possible turns" or "Sneak by a few units at a time at turn count and EXP's expanse, favoring saftey from the hoards?"

Not sure how the mini maps would change anything, since it is kinda similar to opening doors on GBA, but there arepotential fights on the roofs.

[Soledai]

I'm picturing something like a gauge to indicate the amount of noise you made, be it overall, or for individual enemies remains to be worked out.

In my mind, there's a type of stealth element for theives and whatnot, the closer and farther away you get from enemies, affects the gauge and all that, assuming assassination isn't the goal, adding a bit of espionage I guess.

Oh and why not, different species have different levels of "hearing" so the gauge fills quicker for some races (for generics, because you know, Ulki would be a problem in a stealth mission)

Improv'd this when I read this, so the details have yet to be ironed out.

Have you been by chance exposed to Assassin's Creed?

Edited November 29, 2014 by Soledai

[Magical Glace]

I'm picturing something like a gauge to indicate the amount of noise you made, be it overall, or for individual enemies remains to be worked out.

In my mind, there's a type of stealth element for theives and whatnot, the closer and farther away you get from enemies, affects the gauge and all that, assuming assassination isn't the goal, adding a bit of espionage I guess.

Oh and why not, different species have different levels of "hearing" so the gauge fills quicker for some races (for generics, because you know, Ulki would be a problem in a stealth mission)

Improv'd this when I read this, so the details have yet to be ironed out.

Have you been by chance exposed to Assassin's Creed?

There wasn't a gauge in my dream, but if there was, it would apply more to groups than to individuals or all enemies at once. Since an individual would alert his friends if he suspects something, the AI would have to treat his gauge and his friends as one.

I do think the races thing would work out well. A hawk and a beorc don't hear the same... oh why not, give enemy archers more hearing than other beroc class types or something to vary their meters a bit. Of course, their presence would make the group meters fill faster.

I have never played AC myself, not my thing. My sister and Magyars like it, though.

[Snowy_One]

This seems like more of a mechanic for stealth games and/or chapters and would be seriously weird in a open-battlefield type chapter. What? You can't target the squishy little mage-girl in a miniskirt in front of you waving her staff around and healing the big armor knight in front of you cause she's shy and soft-spoken?

That said, in those sorts of chapters it could be useful, just... those chapters are pretty rare on the whole.

[Magical Glace]

This seems like more of a mechanic for stealth games and/or chapters and would be seriously weird in a open-battlefield type chapter. What? You can't target the squishy little mage-girl in a miniskirt in front of you waving her staff around and healing the big armor knight in front of you cause she's shy and soft-spoken?

That said, in those sorts of chapters it could be useful, just... those chapters are pretty rare on the whole.

Tbf, the map in my dream was in a castle of sorts.

I do think it would be best in a Fog of War chapter, looking back, to help balance the Computer is a cheating bastard of those maps. Since it causes FoW to have some kind of effect on them.

[Soledai]

There wasn't a gauge in my dream, but if there was, it would apply more to groups than to individuals or all enemies at once. Since an individual would alert his friends if he suspects something, the AI would have to treat his gauge and his friends as one.

I do think the races thing would work out well. A hawk and a beorc don't hear the same... oh why not, give enemy archers more hearing than other beroc class types or something to vary their meters a bit. Of course, their presence would make the group meters fill faster.

I have never played AC myself, not my thing. My sister and Magyars like it, though.

Yep, I get that. In hindsight, it's easier to picture it being used for groups.

Giving more utility for archers in this fashion, not bad. That's a pretty nifty idea there, since they can act like scouts or some such, but how useful in this scenario could theives and their ilk be, if I may?

Heh, yeah it didn't seem like your type, but the rooftop battles made me think of it since it matched the stealth feel I got from your dream.

[Magical Glace]

Yep, I get that. In hindsight, it's easier to picture it being used for groups.

Giving more utility for archers in this fashion, not bad. That's a pretty nifty idea there, since they can act like scouts or some such, but how useful in this scenario could theives and their ilk be, if I may?

Heh, yeah it didn't seem like your type, but the rooftop battles made me think of it since it matched the stealth feel I got from your dream.

No comment

Enemy archers are fine as is, though. They're pretty annoying already, the issue is player archers. Tbh, I just felt the archer class fit the "good hearing" best out of all classes. Maybe give archers extended FoW vision to help the player.

Thief units would probably fill the meter less than other units when blue, and fill their own meters faster when red. Since they are stealthy and all.

[Flamy]

Noise... so conserving movement amongst a small army allows one to move unnoticed, but a tactical misstep can have your enemies sending for reinforcements. Archers and Snipers, with their keen senses, can hear much more than others, while a Thief or Assasin or Rogue could easily sneak past enemies.

Your mechanic does sound good though

[Julius Nepos]

The word you are looking for is 'yea'.

I've had a similar idea for a stealth mission (though in my mind it's more element of surprise than stealth). I think there would be roughly three strategies in such a mission:

1) Sneak your units into good positions, so you can attack the enemy in the best possible way (in essence a first move / element of surprise advantage).

2) Try to take out enemies one by one and quickly, so as to avoid alerting the others.

3) Just charge in and try to deal with whatever the enemy throws at you.

I also like the idea of different classes having different effects (enemy archers being better at detecting, player thieves being better at remaining undetected). We could add to that that some classes naturally produce more noise than others. I imagine that mounted units for example make more noise (with the noises their mounts make), perhaps armored units too (as you can hear their armor clink when they move).

[Magical Glace]

The word you are looking for is 'yea'.

I've had a similar idea for a stealth mission (though in my mind it's more element of surprise than stealth). I think there would be roughly three strategies in such a mission:

1) Sneak your units into good positions, so you can attack the enemy in the best possible way (in essence a first move / element of surprise advantage).

2) Try to take out enemies one by one and quickly, so as to avoid alerting the others.

3) Just charge in and try to deal with whatever the enemy throws at you.

I also like the idea of different classes having different effects (enemy archers being better at detecting, player thieves being better at remaining undetected). We could add to that that some classes naturally produce more noise than others. I imagine that mounted units for example make more noise (with the noises their mounts make), perhaps armored units too (as you can hear their armor clink when they move).

These all seem like good ideas. Though my dream self did the last of the three and it didn't turn out so well for me. I remember being unsure if I lost any playable units in the chaos, and being certain random civilians (whose reason for existing is beyond me) died.

And yeah, my first thought on the noisier classes was armorknights, but the mounts make sense as well.

[Yuki]

It sounds very interesting. Especially for indoor sections.

It'd be a nice change of pace to try a stealthy approach over the usual battlefields, and it gives thieves and assassins an advantage.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Since I've played the FE8 hack "Midnight Sun" I'm a huge fan of "stealth missions".

However it's an outdoor chapter.

You have to transport your lord with a pegasus knight and/or draco knight to a spot without being detected. If you're in the attack range of an enemy, you're lost. You don't have to fight enemies at all.

I actually like this idea.

It makes sense that classes with heavy armor make more noise than rogues, who usually work very carefully.

[Julius Nepos]

And yeah, my first thought on the noisier classes was armorknights, but the mounts make sense as well.

I guess it would a dismount option would actually be useful in that case. Will you choose stealth at the expense of movement, or movement at the expense of stealth?

[Magical Glace]

I guess it would a dismount option would actually be useful in that case. Will you choose stealth at the expense of movement, or movement at the expense of stealth?

Though I've never played an entry with dismount, that makes a lot of sense.

Having the option to choose would be nice as well.

[Jiac]

This sound mechanic would be absolutely terrible for Knights.

tl;dr *KINK* *KINK* *KINK*

[momogeek2141]

This is actually a good idea. However, it would only work in castles or fog of war, where being quiet actually matters. Also, the AI may be programmed to run where there is a lot of noise, because no one likes to run into a large battalion (assuming this isn't an outdoor map w/o fog of war.) Similarly, they may gang up when they hear little noise.

I also like the idea of different classes having different effects (enemy archers being better at detecting, player thieves being better at remaining undetected). We could add to that that some classes naturally produce more noise than others. I imagine that mounted units for example make more noise (with the noises their mounts make), perhaps armored units too (as you can hear their armor clink when they move).

Hector! Stop cluttering your armor around!

(Okay that was pretty bad, I admit it.)

[Brendor]

just use a stealth boy

[Apotheosis]

If the details were more defined, I'd love to see this in an FE game. Sounds awesome!

[NinjaMonkey]

I'm not a fan of this, since I like to use Generals, and while I don't mind the reduced movement that they have, this would be terrible for me.

Besides that, I'm not a fan of stealth in video games anyway...