The Connection of Ike, Chrom and Marth

[aire99]

I have this theory about Chrom which actually stunned be quite of bit. Tell me if you guys agree.


Well, I was raging when they didn't add Chrom in SSB4. For what apparent reason WHY would they add Lucina and not CHROM? Well...There is a conversation between them in the WiiU version; Pit (or someone) said that Chrom's skills are too similar to Ike. Why is that so? Also...Why Chrom is the only one that can get Aether (rather than DLC and Lucina and parent-stuff [passing skills down to children in-game]) and he is actually the only guy who can have the Lord class (except Lucina again). So, I have realized something. I haven't played Radiant Dawn or Path of Radiance, but I know one thing for sure: Ike has traveled to distance lands and has NEVER returned. And the Outrealms is a interesting thing, since you can travel back into any time, any place. So...Is it that Ike has met Marth in some sort of way? Chrom is the proof that Marth did have children, but from which family line? I propose that Ike DID use the outrealms AND he might have met King Marth and married one of his children (ew...) and he managed to pass the Aether skill to Chrom after GENERATIONS of family. Or, Marth might have a sister (I think) and married her instead.
Therefore, that's how Chrom is soooooo similar to Ike rather than Marth. Even Tiki said that Chrom may be from a different family tree than Marth, since that he apparently doesn't have his "soul". The only game I've played is Awakening, but I'm sure that this happened. Tell me what you guys think...

[Dragoncat]

Nice theory. But I don't think skills are actually genetic, they seem that way, but it's more of a gameplay thing imo.

Tiki also said, iirc, that Lucina is more Marthy(lol) than Chrom. So...idk.

[Anacybele]

Nice theory, but I don't think it would work. It would mean that Priam and Chrom are related (because Priam is Ike's descendant), and if Chrom was also a descendant of Ike as well as Marth, I think something like this would've been mentioned. Ike is actually stated to have been the mightiest of all known heroes, the strongest that ever lived. Seeing as Chrom and Lucina admire their hero king Marth so much, they'd have just as much admiration, if not more, for their OTHER legendary ancestor, Ike, if this was the case.

My personal, but kind of a joke theory is that Ike took pity on the Ylisse family and taught them Aether. :P But it's not meant to be taken seriously, of course. lol

Edited December 3, 2014 by Anacybele

[Dragoncat]

My personal, but kind of a joke theory is that Ike took pity on the Ylisse family and taught them Aether. :P But it's not meant to be taken seriously, of course. lol

Lol now that actually makes more sense than the OP.

[aire99]

Nice theory, but I don't think it would work. It would mean that Priam and Chrom are related (because Priam is Ike's descendant), and if Chrom was also a descendant of Ike as well as Marth, I think something like this would've been mentioned. Ike is actually stated to have been the mightiest of all known heroes, the strongest that ever lived. Seeing as Chrom and Lucina admire their hero king Marth so much, they'd have just as much admiration, if not more, for their OTHER legendary ancestor, Ike, if this was the case.

My personal, but kind of a joke theory is that Ike took pity on the Ylisse family and taught them Aether. :P But it's not meant to be taken seriously, of course. lol

Well, Priam "claims" to be the descendant of Ike. Just because he has the Ragnell doesn't mean anything. In Radiant Dawn, only Ike can hold the Ragnell, but in Awakening, seems that anyone can actually can. The sword did lose its blessing from the Gods and is wearing away. Not only that, he only has parts of Aether, which is Sol and Luna combined, but not the real Aether. I ain't arguing, but I'm just pointing out a few things.

Edited December 3, 2014 by aire99

[Czar_Yoshi]

Priam doesn't like this theory.

Anyway, two things... First, what exactly would be wrong with Ike marrying one of Marth's daughters? It's not like there's any current relation between the time periods they lived in, and for all you know Ike could have shown up in Archanea 20 years after Mystery. Second, could someone link me to where Chrom is said to be a descendant of Marth? I've been all over the script and he's definitely a descendant of the "First Exalt" (not Marth- Marth's in-game title is the "Hero-King").

The script: http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Story_Script

[Anacybele]

Well, Priam "claims" to be the descendant of Ike. Just because he has the Ragnell doesn't mean anything. In Radiant Dawn, only Ike can hold the Ragnell, but in Awakening, seems that anyone can actually can. The sword did lose its blessing from the Gods and is wearing away. Not only that, he only has parts of Aether, which is Sol and Luna combined, but not the real Aether. I ain't arguing, but I'm just pointing out a few things.

I always assumed that the reasons Priam doesn't have Aether are 1. so it remains a skill only the Lords can learn not counting inheritance, and 2. so male Morgan can't get it.

And not everyone in Ike's line has to have Aether. And maybe Priam just hasn't learned yet and is still working on that.

[Ryo]

Priam doesn't like this theory.

Anyway, two things... First, what exactly would be wrong with Ike marrying one of Marth's daughters? It's not like there's any current relation between the time periods they lived in, and for all you know Ike could have shown up in Archanea 20 years after Mystery. Second, could someone link me to where Chrom is said to be a descendant of Marth? I've been all over the script and he's definitely a descendant of the "First Exalt" (not Marth- Marth's in-game title is the "Hero-King").

The script: http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Story_Script

Tiki confirms that in her B support with the male Avatar: http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Supports/Tiki_Avatar(M)#B_Support

Robin:

You were referring to THE King Marth, right? The man from two millennia ago? Well, he's a distant relation to Chrom, is he not?

Tiki:

That is correct.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ryo

[Owain_the_swordsman]

My theory?Ike and Marth had a baby. :P

Edited December 3, 2014 by BlazeX635

[Owain_the_swordsman]

Sorry for double post .

Edited December 3, 2014 by BlazeX635

[Tyranny]

Priam's Ragnell has 25 uses, that's some cheap Chinese knockoff Ragnell,l and I don't know what happened to the one he used while fighting the player. Also, even if skills are genetic, it's not like genes are the only way to learn a skill even if it's a trademark of certain characters.

[Yuki]

Priam's Ragnell has 25 uses, that's some cheap Chinese knockoff Ragnell.

Apparantly the power inside the Ragnell has weakened over the years. Even in the artwork it has a sickly colour and some cracks.

Edited December 3, 2014 by TheYukianesa

[~Silver]

Apparantly the power inside the Ragnell has weakened over the years. Even in the artwork it has a sickly colour and some cracks.

It was already in a bad state of non-repair in Brawl.

And when it came to Smash Bros 4, Rangell took an even heavier toll.

This can be seen easily when Ike does a Victory Pose for the Wii U.

Various scratches are across Ragnell, and at that point of time, Ike still has the sword in his possession.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ~Silver

[Sentacotus]

Thats a nice theory but I think we are sadly left to the Ike married a generic village maiden thing. I think the whole Aether thing is just a gameplay mechanic to make it a lord only skill as is the whole Ragnell only having 25 uses and being able to be used by any character I mean hell you can even find multiple of them in the DLC.

[~Silver]

Thats a nice theory but I think we are sadly left to the Ike married a generic village maiden thing.

But Priam is a descendant of Ike. It's not said anywhere he's his Great-Great-Grandchild, right?

Yes, it's said Ike traveled to the continent of Ylissle, but in all actuality... Praim could be a child of Mist and Boyd. Great Grandchild, that is.

That would explain why he can't fully use Aether. Yes, he has Sol, and yes, he has Luna, but he can't... Combine the two.

Perhaps Praim traveled to Ylissle in hopes of finding his Granddad, or something... Or learning of his Granddad, or to follow in his footsteps or... Something.

And it's never said that Ragnell went with Ike, correct? In fact, it would've fittingly stayed with its counterpart, back in its land. For all we know, Praim could've been gifted it for his birthday, haha.

[Anacybele]

It was already in a bad state of non-repair in Brawl.

And when it came to Smash Bros 4, Rangell took an even heavier toll.

This can be seen easily when Ike does a Victory Pose for the Wii U.

Various scratches are across Ragnell, and at that point of time, Ike still has the sword in his possession.

But the sword isn't like this in PoR or RD. Smash games don't always follow canon. I think the added scratches and stuff are to make Ike look tougher. He got some scratches added to his armor too, which also didn't exist in RD. And even then, the Smash version of Ragnell still doesn't look nearly as beat up as Priam's.

Ike might have kept Ragnell at the end of RD, actually. But he also might not have. Sanaki gave it to him again during the game, but it's never said whether he returns it again or not. I personally have it be a reward of sorts for what he's done for all of Tellius. Well, that and the fact that people got used to seeing him kill everything with that sword. lol

Edited December 3, 2014 by Anacybele

[VincentASM]

I actually had the same theory, but mine's crazier because nearly all the FE lords are linked.

My addition was that Sigurd is Marth's ancestor, the one from 1000 years before Marth's time according to Tiki's supports. When you're reading that support, you might think Tiki is referring to Anri, but he existed a mere 100 years before Marth, while Sigurd was probably around during that time.

But anyway, back to Chrom and co... I always wondered if the first Exalt (who almost definitely isn't Marth) was the scion of Ike's descendent and Marth's descendent.

Okay, Priam throws a spanner in the works, but there could be multiple explanations for his existence. Heck, even his existence is a mystery. Maybe he was from a branch family that revered Ike's teachings rather than Marth's. Although I guess that doesn't explain why he didn't mention he was related to Chrom, but he's a man of few words anyway.

Edited December 3, 2014 by VincentASM

[~Silver]

But the sword isn't like this in PoR or RD. Smash games don't always follow canon. I think the added scratches and stuff are to make Ike look tougher. He got some scratches added to his armor too, which also didn't exist in RD. And even then, the Smash version of Ragnell still doesn't look nearly as beat up as Priam's.

Ike might have kept Ragnell at the end of RD, actually. But he also might not have. Sanaki gave it to him again during the game, but it's never said whether he returns it again or not. I personally have it be a reward of sorts for what he's done for all of Tellius. Well, that and the fact that people got used to seeing him kill everything with that sword. lol

(Yay! Anacybele quoted me!)

Well, okay, the sword was never mentioned to be used prior to PoR, no? So it makes sense that the sword is in perfect condition in Ike's hands. But we've seen how aggressively Ike fights, both in the Fire Emblem Series, and Smash Bros. While not Canon, Smash Bros still shows us how Ike would fight in a melee. So, over time with such a style, Ragnell would wear-n'-tear. By the time that Praim gets ahold of it (Which, as I've explained, could be by numerous ways) no doubt the sword might have a scratch or two.

Sanaki was a rather stern person when it came to such matters. No doubt she'd want Ragnell to be with it's significant other, no? And Ike doesn't seem the person to form a bond with weapons, in my opinion. In fact, I'd see him turning down the sword opposed to any other for a, "challenge."

But anyway, back to Chrom and co... I always wondered if the first Exalt (who almost definitely isn't Marth) was the scion of Ike's descendent and Marth's descendent.

Okay, Priam throws a spanner in the works, but there could be multiple explanations for his existence. Heck, even his existence is a mystery. Maybe he was from a branch family that revered Ike's teachings rather than Marth's. Although I guess that doesn't explain why he didn't mention he was related to Chrom, but he's a man of few words anyway.

(Yay, Vincent quoted me! Double yay!)

I agree. Priam just kinda... Popped up. Thankfully, we were told more about him than others about his backstory.

But this, is where I would have to disagree. No doubt after the battle with Chrom, Praim would see such strength in, what would be, his... Cousin, yeah? He would go as far as to mention it, proud he lost to such a man.

And I'll also have to disagree about, "A man of few words."

His supports with the male Avatar counteract this... Though it just might be he felt comfortable talking with him.

Phew! That took longer than expected...

[BrightBow]

(Yay! Anacybele quoted me!)

Well, okay, the sword was never mentioned to be used prior to PoR, no? So it makes sense that the sword is in perfect condition in Ike's hands. But we've seen how aggressively Ike fights, both in the Fire Emblem Series, and Smash Bros. While not Canon, Smash Bros still shows us how Ike would fight in a melee. So, over time with such a style, Ragnell would wear-n'-tear. By the time that Praim gets ahold of it (Which, as I've explained, could be by numerous ways) no doubt the sword might have a scratch or two.

Sanaki was a rather stern person when it came to such matters. No doubt she'd want Ragnell to be with it's significant other, no? And Ike doesn't seem the person to form a bond with weapons, in my opinion. In fact, I'd see him turning down the sword opposed to any other for a, "challenge."

The sword was used by Altina, one of the three heroes of Ashera in the war against Yune and her followers.

Given that Altina was badass enough to fight on the side of Deghinsea and Soan as well as wielding both Ragnell and Alondite and that she was fighting opponents who were wearing blessed armor like the Black Knight, the strain that Ike could have caused to the blade during the brief times he used it probably couldn't compare to what it had to go through while it was still used by her.

Edited December 3, 2014 by BrightBow

[~Silver]

The sword was used by Altina, one of the three heroes of Ashera in the war against Yune and her followers.

Given that Altina was badass enough to fight on the side of Deghinsea and Soan as well as wielding both Ragnell and Alondite and that she was fighting opponents who were wearing blessed armor like the Black Knight, the strain that Ike could have caused to the blade during the brief times he used it probably couldn't compare to what it had to go through while it was still used by her.

But... When Ike got it, it was in near perfect condition.

So if what you say is true, the fact that Altina wielded Ragnell more ferociously than Ike, then the sword was undoubtedly passed down throughout the generations for it to be in the condition Priam has it.

Which leaves us to conclude a few things.

Priam could've moved to the continent of Ylissle after obtaining Ragnell, should he have been the Great-Offspring of Boyd and Mist. The sword could've been left behind when Ike ventured 'cross the land, leaving it in the condition it was when Praim is seen with it, as previously stated.

Or, Ike could've brought Ragnell with him, using the blade even more, perhaps... Settling down with a village maiden, and child after child was the sword passed down, until boom: Praim gets the clunk of metal after journeying to the Continent. This would seem unlikely, as he would have to track down his other side of the family, and... Yeah. What are the chances of that?

Mist and Boyd might've gone after Ike, following him to Ylissle's Continent, though this is unlikely. Should it have been the case, Praim could've had his great-grandfather learn from Ike himself, or Ike might not have been found at all, leaving for the blade to somehow wined up in Mist's care.

There are more possibilities if the case was that Ike is Praim's great Grandfather, but I refuse to believe this. Aether, an important skill, would've been passed down, clearly. And Ike, knowing it's importance, would make sure his own blood would know such a move, and said person would make sure their offspring knew it, and so on.

Praim clearly attempted to learn Aether. He has two halves of the whole: Sol and Luna.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ~Silver

[Anacybele]

And I still think that story-wise Priam actually has Aether since IS gave him the parts of it, but in-game, kept it as Sol and Luna separately for the reasons I stated earlier (to keep it a Lord-exclusive skill and so male Morgan doesn't have access to it). Simply put, IS gave him Sol and Luna for game purposes, but to also imply that story-wise, he actually has Aether.

[~Silver]

And I still think that story-wise Priam actually has Aether since IS gave him the parts of it, but in-game, kept it as Sol and Luna separately for the reasons I stated earlier (to keep it a Lord-exclusive skill and so male Morgan doesn't have access to it). Simply put, IS gave him Sol and Luna for game purposes, but to also imply that story-wise, he actually has Aether.

...damn. You've made a good point.

I mean, Story-Wise, I'm sticking by my point. He has two halves of a whole, but he isn't making the whole. (Sol and Luna, but no Aether) but it would make sense he doesn't have Aether for said reasons: Exclusive Skill, and so Morgan doesn't have access. Male Morgan, mind you, as he can't get Aether in any way.

The more and more I think of this, the more and more I'm believing you're right, Anacybele. I just wish that the fact Praim doesn't have Aether held a... Deeper meaning.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ~Silver

[Anacybele]

Well, I suppose it still could, as I'm only making an educated guess on my theory, after all. And everyone can have their own headcanons. Not to mention there's multiple timelines. One timeline could have a Priam with Aether and another could have a Priam without it. Who knows? :P

Although I do like the idea of Priam being directly from Ike more than I do the idea of him being from Mist. Because I like the idea of Ike raising a family of his own. I mean, he might seem more like the loner type at first, but I think he really values family a lot since he considers his mercenaries a family. I don't think he would go against the idea of marrying a lovely girl and passing what he learned from his dad to his own children someday. He even calls his whole army a family because he recites his father's early-game speech at the end of PoR. Ike is certainly a family guy in some sense.

Also, I never pictured Boyd getting married at first, and he can marry Mist. lol Who says Ike can't surprise some people?

Edited December 3, 2014 by Anacybele

[~Silver]

Well, I suppose it still could, as I'm only making an educated guess on my theory, after all. And everyone can have their own headcanons. Not to mention there's multiple timelines. One timeline could have a Priam with Aether and another could have a Priam without it. Who knows? :P

Although I do like the idea of Priam being directly from Ike more than I do the idea of him being from Mist. Because I like the idea of Ike raising a family of his own. I mean, he might seem more like the loner type at first, but I think he really values family a lot and wouldn't go against the idea of marrying a lovely girl and passing what he learned from his dad to his own children someday. He even calls his whole army a family because he recites his father's early-game speech at the end of PoR. Ike is certainly a family guy in some sense.

Also, I never pictured Boyd getting married at first, and he can marry Mist. lol Who says Ike can't surprise some people?

Damnit, Anacybele! You need to stop talking! The more you talk, the more my mind is made thinking! >:P

But you're right. Who knows? We're only left with theories here and there, as Awakening was more tied into its plot than it's peoples plot.

And about the alternate timeline thing... It seems the Outrealms themselves are just home to just that: Alternate Timelines and Alternate Universes, shown in the EXP DLC Chapter.

Now, here, I'll get you thinking.

I won't deny that Ike, deep down, has "Family Man" qualities.

But surely, leaving his whole "family" behind, all he had been raised with, and more... Would it be worth it for a girl?

See, Ike left for a reason. A good reason. Question is, what is said reason?

[Sentacotus]

And it's never said that Ragnell went with Ike, correct? In fact, it would've fittingly stayed with its counterpart, back in its land. For all we know, Praim could've been gifted it for his birthday, haha.

I guess he could of somehow gotten it but I really think that is highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure after RD Ike keeps Ragnell with him.

But the sword isn't like this in PoR or RD. Smash games don't always follow canon. I think the added scratches and stuff are to make Ike look tougher. He got some scratches added to his armor too, which also didn't exist in RD. And even then, the Smash version of Ragnell still doesn't look nearly as beat up as Priam's.

I think after he killed the goddess Ashera coupled with leaving Tellius and years more of use this probably had an effect on the sword's blessing and the condition Priam has it in.

Well, I suppose it still could, as I'm only making an educated guess on my theory, after all. And everyone can have their own headcanons. Not to mention there's multiple timelines. One timeline could have a Priam with Aether and another could have a Priam without it. Who knows? :P

Although I do like the idea of Priam being directly from Ike more than I do the idea of him being from Mist. Because I like the idea of Ike raising a family of his own. I mean, he might seem more like the loner type at first, but I think he really values family a lot since he considers his mercenaries a family. I don't think he would go against the idea of marrying a lovely girl and passing what he learned from his dad to his own children someday. He even calls his whole army a family because he recites his father's early-game speech at the end of PoR. Ike is certainly a family guy in some sense.

This is the part that really got me and why his ending in RD is so out of character and imo lazy writing on IS's part. Think about it the mercenaries who he's trained with, fought with, and grew up with and would do anything for (not to mention he's actually related to Mist) and he just up's and leaves. I know he was close to guys like Ranulf and Soren and they get special endings but you mean to tell me that everyone else just has no significance on him? Either way its done now and I don't really see IS revisiting Tellius so I'm not going to get my underdrawers in a bunch