Who is the worst unit in FE:A ?

[Lord Raven]

Efficiency: Donnel and Ricken are shit

Non efficiency: Donnel has a bright future because he caps everything forever. Ricken stays shit.

Ricken actually has some redeeming qualities in efficiency cause his Elwind tome at base can be useful, as can his early chip damage.

[General Horace]

ricken also isn't bad as a higher magic rescue user, he's obviously outclassed by someone like Anna and Miriel (albeit not by much) but he's honestly probably better than most of the other alternatives

Personally I think Donnel is the worst, but I don't care a whole lot for stuff like caps and skills he passes down to children or postgame in general, (or honestly really know anything about it).

and ricken doesn't really stay shitty if you're not playing efficiency or ltc or w/e he's still below average but he's statistically better than Lissa or something and with someone with a speed pair he doubles well enough after a few levels on hard mode anyway.

that being said I hate ricken so much he always gets skill luck and defence for me :(

Edited January 17, 2015 by General Horace

[XeKr]

Yeah actually higher Tome rank, closer to promotion (and Rescue) than Miriel, etc also matters. And gives movement in the desert so a potential filler there.

[Interceptor]

I WAS thinking in such a concept, believe it or not. The issue I have here is that you brought up Miriel and Robin when this is Ricken vs Donnel, not Ricken vs Robin or Ricken vs Miriel...

I only mention Miriel and Robin to point out that Ricken doesn't have a niche in this game. Pretty much every other character has a place that they can call their own, but Ricken is exceptional (in a bad way) because he's merely a shitty version of someone else.

Technically in such a world my Avatar has an S support as soon as the Barracks are unlocked and is promoted+capping all stats before the end of Cht.4 with nothing but a healthy dose of RNG manipulation and a lot of patience. No Wireless features required, either. Basically nobody else matters.

Nor does this argument. The world where Donnel > Ricken is just one where opportunity cost doesn't really factor in to the decision-making process, i.e. the home of the silent majority of Awakening players.

I think the point he was making was some people judge a unit solely on output, rather than output - input. Donnel has the worst value for the latter but not the worst value for the former. A resource is as valuable as you want it to be.

Precisely this. It's a strange argument, but the sewers of "worst unit" are a strange place.

[Zerosabers]

Idk if he is the worst unit statistically, but I really hate Viron. He just never ends up good, constantly annoys me with his personality, and his supports with ladies always seem to be "I can do everything, now please bang me.". It doesn't help that he always seems to get bad level ups and most of his children look bad, at least to me.

[Ethlyn]

As interesting the Paralogue characters are, I would probably say them, because they come so late.

[Ownagepuffs]

Paralogue characters include the kids and some of those kids rock faces. But then again paralogue characters include Donnel too. You'd have to be more specific.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Nor does this argument. The world where Donnel > Ricken is just one where opportunity cost doesn't really factor in to the decision-making process, i.e. the home of the silent majority of Awakening players.

Hey, I was agreeing with you.

[Alastor15243]

Paralogue characters include the kids and some of those kids rock faces. But then again paralogue characters include Donnel too. You'd have to be more specific.

Pretty sure she means the bonus chapters with Priam, Yen'fay, Emmeryn, etc.

[Ethlyn]

Paralogue characters include the kids and some of those kids rock faces. But then again paralogue characters include Donnel too. You'd have to be more specific.

Pretty sure she means the bonus chapters with Priam, Yen'fay, Emmeryn, etc.

My bad, but indeed Alastor is correct. I did not mean the children or Donny, but those characters you can recruit from paralogue 18 to 23.

[Original Alear]

but then your fine with fighting along side them because emm asked nicely

Never really understood why Panne was in Ylisstol (sp?). Is the idea that the grimleal are the ones who purged her warren? Sorry to go a little off-topic, but...I think it's ok?

[Czar_Yoshi]

I think the idea is that it was Chrom's jerkish dad, but the game really gives no elaboration whatsoever.

As far as I'm concerned, she's only in Ylisstol because Lucina says she's coming and Lucina knows the future, so she's kind of obligated to show up.

[Alastor15243]

I think the idea is that it was Chrom's jerkish dad, but the game really gives no elaboration whatsoever.

As far as I'm concerned, she's only in Ylisstol because Lucina says she's coming and Lucina knows the future, so she's kind of obligated to show up.

Henry gave her the heads up about it and her warren owed a debt to Ylisse or something.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Krum]

All the people saying "Donnel" make me sick. He basically solos the entire game the moment you get him to Hero in Hard Classic with a Bronze Sword, which is not very difficult to do if you get him early enough. Also makes a pretty great dad.

Virion is probably the worst unit and father, which is a sad shame since he is easily one of the best-written characters in the whole game.

[Czar_Yoshi]

He basically solos the entire game the moment you get him to Hero in Hard Classic

Who doesn't solo Hard/Cla when given enough kills to get ahead of the curve?

[Krum]

Who doesn't solo Hard/Cla when given enough kills to get ahead of the curve?

With a Bronze Sword and minimal grinding?

[Refa]

With a Bronze Sword and minimal grinding?

Bronze Swords are suboptimal for soloing because they only have 1 range.

[Krum]

Bronze Swords are suboptimal for soloing because they only have 1 range.

While that's entirely true, that wasn't my point.

[Cat1803]

With a Bronze Sword and minimal grinding?

Donnel shines most in limited-grind runs. Which is why it's no surprise that players that don't minmax constantly think he's among the best units - most players play somewhere in between no grind and full grind.

TBH Awakening (especially Hard Mode) is just a game of good and better. Where each unit falls on the scale of "good" to "ZOMGAWESOME" depends on the situation - difficulty, amount of grinding, ingame or postgame.

Example: Virion, since you brought him up (and I did several posts ago). He reeks ingame, but at least he can contribute via chip damage. However, he provides better modifiers and class selection to his potential child than Donnel could ever hope to, outside of the Pegasus Knight line of course. For a lead? Great Spd/Skl, two solid weapon-faires. For a support unit? Two weapon-faires, Str+2, Mag+2, Hit Rate+20. Virion's useful on almost any child, and Donnel is useful for... 3 at best (Donnel!Nah is solid ingame but falls short postgame).

[Czar_Yoshi]

With a Bronze Sword and minimal grinding?

Weapon type doesn't matter. If you're soloing, you're rolling in cash and can use whatever you want.

Depending on your definition of grinding... Everyone can get started using only the enemies present in the main chapters and Paralogues, yes. No DLC, Skirmishes, Wireless etc.

[Krum]

Donnel shines most in limited-grind runs. Which is why it's no surprise that players that don't minmax constantly think he's among the best units - most players play somewhere in between no grind and full grind.

TBH Awakening (especially Hard Mode) is just a game of good and better. Where each unit falls on the scale of "good" to "ZOMGAWESOME" depends on the situation - difficulty, amount of grinding, ingame or postgame.

Example: Virion, since you brought him up (and I did several posts ago). He reeks ingame, but at least he can contribute via chip damage. However, he provides better modifiers and class selection to his potential child than Donnel could ever hope to, outside of the Pegasus Knight line of course. For a lead? Great Spd/Skl, two solid weapon-faires. For a support unit? Two weapon-faires, Str+2, Mag+2, Hit Rate+20. Virion's useful on almost any child, and Donnel is useful for... 3 at best (Donnel!Nah is solid ingame but falls short postgame).

I'm only arguing that Donnel isn't the worst unit, not that he's one of the best. Donny gets Sol, Counter, and Armsthrift to hold his own in battle on top of consistently speedy stat boosts, and he can get his kid Galeforce. That's a lot more than some other units can offer, including Virion.

Virion may be "useful" as a father, but he's still outclassed by other fathers in most cases, and to say he's useful for every child is a bit of a stretch. Donny may not have many optimal kid options, but the options he does have end up making fantastic units. The same can't be said for Virion, who can make only a good unit at the very most.

[Carmine Sword]

Counter and Armsthrift aren't even good skills.

[Iceclaw]

In Limited or No-Grind run, they are, especially on a guy that's going to have a fairly good Luck. It helps saving on weapon uses, which is a fairly decent thing to do until endgame.

[Alastor15243]

Virion may be "useful" as a father, but he's still outclassed by other fathers in most cases, and to say he's useful for every child is a bit of a stretch. Donny may not have many optimal kid options, but the options he does have end up making fantastic units. The same can't be said for Virion, who can make only a good unit at the very most.

Wrong, actually. Virion makes a fantastic Yarne, a great Brady, a difficult-yet-awesome Severa, a good Gerome, and a great Nah. The only children Virion's actively bad for are the ones that don't already have procs/galeforce and aren't hard supports, which means... Inigo, Owain, Kjelle and Noire, pretty much.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Cat1803]

Wrong, actually. Virion makes a fantastic Yarne, a great Brady, a difficult-yet-awesome Severa, a good Gerome, and a great Nah.

And Donnel outclasses Virion for absolutely none of these children.

If we are looking at Donnel vs Virion, the only children Donnel are more useful for are Kjelle and Noire.

If we're looking at number of children either can be useful for, it's 2 for Donnel vs at least 5 for Virion.

As a father, Virion > Donnel. (Yes, I realize that's a simplification).

Virion may be "useful" as a father, but he's still outclassed by other fathers in most cases, and to say he's useful for every child is a bit of a stretch. Donny may not have many optimal kid options, but the options he does have end up making fantastic units. The same can't be said for Virion, who can make only a good unit at the very most.

The only child fathered by Donnel I'd consider "fantastic" by any stretch is Kjelle, and that's because she's basically Sully with Galeforce. Donnel!Noire is outclassed by Gaius!Noire. Technically, Gaius!Kjelle outclasses Donnel!Kjelle, but Donnel and Gaius naturally wind up on Kjelle and Noire frequently - having Donnel on Kjelle and Gaius on Noire fixes Noire's Skl and allows her to procstack.

Kjelle has everything but Galeforce and Donnel provides it... Too bad his mods are so crummy that Kjelle's mods are virtually the same as her mother's.

As for in-game... Donnel takes investment to catch up, and that same investment could be put into making a unit that's already good better. HM isn't the best way to compare units since anyone after a certain amount of investment can steamroll it.

I will give Donnel this: he's a naturally high-luck unit with Armsthrift access. Yay.

I was on board the Donnel bandwagon until Lunatic, honestly.