Will there be avatars and waifus in this game? Avatar and waifu discussion. Waifus, the second coming.

[ClassyWolf]

I disliked the "waifu" phenomenon in Awakening, because it threw any semblance of sexual diversity out the window. Again, this is Japan so, if I'm not mistaken, they are not as tolerant of homosexuality as America is. I would like to have the male avatar have male romantic options and the female avatar with female ones. Mass Effect did that stuff pretty well. Sadly though, I'm betting they'll have the traditional marriage system again, but I'm praying that they'll not involve time-traveling children again. Time-travel is a sure way to ruin a narrative - too many plot holes.

As for the avatar, why not? I like customization. However, Robin had a personality equivalent to that of a paper towel, which ruined his/her character. Since the trailer makes it seem that the Avatar is somehow connected to that white dragon, perhaps the avatar can have a quiet/reserved nature due to his/her inhuman connection? I can tolerate a semi-silent protagonist.

Depends entirely in how it is going to factor into gameplay, if they are going to have kid unitd again, who inherit their parents growths and skills, it makes more sense to have it like awakening.

No, I'm not against sexual diversity in an fe game, as long as it makes sense.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

as someone who's bi, i don't give a fuck about sexual diversity.

also

>mass effect

>doing sexual diversity well.

yeah right, in the first two games, female shep could totally be gay and noone batted an eyelash or cared, then in 3 they allowed male shep to be gay as well and suddenly its a big deal.

not to mention lets be real, bioware hasn't been good for years now.

Edited January 15, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[RedEyedDrake]

My personal preference would be 'no' to both, though said reaction of mine applies somewhat more strongly to the first question and somewhat less strongly to the second one simply by virtue of the waifu thing being almost guaranteed to be done in a manner that is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator while the avatar thing has at least a slim chance of being done in a decent manner. Sadly, given certain other companies' current track records with the terms "casualization" and "waifu milking" I'm inclined to hold little to no expectations in regards to either of the two things mentioned in the poll being done well until I see some concrete examples of these things being implemented in such a manner.

My apologies for the pessimism.

[Alfred Kamon]

The waifu system itself isn't a problem, it's just that there are people who make it into a problem through all those waifu wars and stuff. I'm pretty sure that many people aren't against the waifuing itself, but the atmosphere that is brought in the communities with such a feature.

Personally, I really liked it, I never cared much about other people's opinion on waifus, and I've genuinely fun discussing it with my friends/gf, so yeah, I'd like waifus to return.

Same for the avatar, maybe being able to choose one of the two opposing factions (one seems to be more Japanese-like, the other one more Greek-like).

Edited January 15, 2015 by Alfred Kamon

[Shadow Knight]

Yes and Yes

I never really understood the gripes ppl had with Robin in Awakening in the first place.

He's sooooo OP

FWI he's only OP if you make him OP. Yes he can be any class save for a few gender locked classes but what do you expect. Would you rather be pidgeon holed into one or two class choices and not be able to make him your own??? This argument makes no sense. It's like saying you want features taken out of the game. If you don't want an OP Robin than don't make an OP Robin.

He's done horribly within the Story

Matter of opinion. Imo Awakening's story is actually quite strong where all of the plot twists make sense and are supported from the beginning. For example look at the insignia of Robin's tactician outfit, it has the insignia of Grima the Fell Dragon. Awakening's story also has plenty of heartfelt moments that truly touch you such as Emmeryn's death, Lucina threatening to kill you, and the final boss on TOP OF A DRAGON. The only problem I had with the story was the armies' reactions to Robin's "Death" Most were sure he was going to come back and were positive.

He is given way to much respect by the others

You're a tactician for Chrom a respected prince who has won several battles and Three wars. Between that and all of the grinding you go through You're damn right they better be praising you. But I can see what the other side is talking about. Next time I'll spend 50-60 dollars on something that is constantly telling me that I stink.

Now onto Waifus

I'm sick and tired of Waifu "Wars"

In case you haven't noticed pairing wars happen all of the time. Just bc I like one pairing or character more than you and express it doesn't mean it's going to stop if Waifus are removed. It'll just go back to wars. Basically from MUXRandom girl to the IkeXSora and IkeXElincia wars for example. It's going to happen no matter what. DEAL WITH IT. There are obnoxious ppl out there I admit, but all you can do is ignore them. Removing this system isn't going to make them any less obnoxious.

I don't want to see kids again

This is just stupid. It's much more interesting to have supports with the parents and to mix and match to see all of those interactions. New supports are what keeps the game fresh. But I do agree with others that a time machine meeting idea shouldn't be repeated. They should take a page from Genealogy of the holy war for this one.

[RedEyedDrake]

@Alfred: The thing is that said sort of person is exactly the sort the inclusion of waifus is usually meant to attract, especially considering how willing said sort of person would be to buy a product simply due to the mere fact that it has waifus. It is easy money and it makes sense to do from a purely business perspective but it leaves people who like the games for things other than said appeal worried that the promise of said easy money will cause the series to become only about "waifu pandering". IS got their, addmitedly necessary at the time, easy money from said demographic. The question is wether they'll continue with this attitude or not. I really hope they'll back paddle on it rather than jump in headfirst but the vast majority of businessmen would stick to what sells the most. I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point but, as I stated, I'm not expecting much until I see them dialing back with my own eyes.

Edited January 15, 2015 by RedEyedDrake

[Arcled]

Theres been waifu in every fire emblem game. Why people think Awakening is the only one?

Also i want avatar back definitly. I like being able to immerse myself in the games, but im a narcissist, so wanting to play as myself is kinda my thing.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Arcled

[Axie]

Lmao damn dude this could not he further from the truth. Kris ruined Marth's character.

ugh people are soooo dramatic about Kris when all he did was steal some lines from Jagen and Marth

also it's a matter of opinion because I came to love Marth because of FE12

about the subject at hand: marriage is a mechanic that is hard to justify including in every single game without becoming very repetitive so I'd rather see it go; the avatar is also pretty pointless to me but it is possible to include him with little harm done (such as FE12 okay) so while I'd rather see it go I wouldn't mind if it stayed

the franchise definitely doesn't NEED any of those things to succeed though; keep the good promotion, casual mode and a nice difficulty curve and people will still love it

[RJWalker]

People aye being dramatic in any way when they say Kris ruined Marth. A lot of dialogue is rewritten to make Kris the focus of the scene and many of Marty's tactical decisions are instead credited to Kris.

Kris a leech, sucking out everything awesome about Marth in FE11.

Robin is better in certain ways bit that's not a compliment.

Personally, I'd love it if they have the option to not create an Avatar on this game like FE7.

[Axie]

Well, I think Marth improved from FE11 to FE12, that Kris doesn't even appear enough to justify its position as the Avatar and that not many tactical decisions are made to begin with. Opinions are opinions. I do think many people are super dramatic (and dare I say purist?) with this game but that's just me.

[powerserg]

@shadowknight I totally agree with pretty much everything you are saying.

Robin totally needed to have the choice to be every class to be a really cool character for the player. It would suck to be like "I made me, okay time to be my favorite class, oh wait I can't." That could kill the game right away. I also love awakenings story and thought it did wonders. In terms of Robins respect, obviously he is going to be respected, he is the man that made the choice that keep you and your spouse alive. Your going to love the hell out of Robin because Robin is the reason the army is advancing. Shipping was always a part of Fire Emblem only at least the system in awakening sort of made sense, the system of you get only X amount of times to support, "Sorry I've run out of conversations for my whole life, I would like to talk to you" is insanely dumb.

I think what most members on this forum don't understand is that even the majority of Fire Emblem fans are not like people on this forum. Most fans are casual, never really go in depth with these games, they likely don't even think of how to abuse stuff like pair up, like reclassing, they just want to have fun and try to make the best things they can. We shouldn't be reducing fun to make the game harder for the less then 1000 users here. IS is trying to make the game that appeals to the audiences that buy the games as well as new audiences. It's not like the game babies players, I've played every western Fire Emblem and 12 but I still had plenty of situations where I lost a unit, had to worry, and all that in Normal mode. In Hard mode I had a much harder time and I'm not a person who just bought awakening. I think games need that Smash Bros policy that they are made for the general fans first and the hard core fans second.

[Iceclaw]

Agreed. Though I'll grant that Awakening's story felt really rushed at times, I fail to see how it's supposed to be worse than the rest of the serie, FE9 and maybe 5 excepted. I could do with less creepy sexualised pandering though.

[Aiddon]

Yes and Yes

I never really understood the gripes ppl had with Robin in Awakening in the first place.

He's sooooo OP

FWI he's only OP if you make him OP. Yes he can be any class save for a few gender locked classes but what do you expect. Would you rather be pidgeon holed into one or two class choices and not be able to make him your own??? This argument makes no sense. It's like saying you want features taken out of the game. If you don't want an OP Robin than don't make an OP Robin.

He's done horribly within the Story

Matter of opinion. Imo Awakening's story is actually quite strong where all of the plot twists make sense and are supported from the beginning. For example look at the insignia of Robin's tactician outfit, it has the insignia of Grima the Fell Dragon. Awakening's story also has plenty of heartfelt moments that truly touch you such as Emmeryn's death, Lucina threatening to kill you, and the final boss on TOP OF A DRAGON. The only problem I had with the story was the armies' reactions to Robin's "Death" Most were sure he was going to come back and were positive.

He is given way to much respect by the others

You're a tactician for Chrom a respected prince who has won several battles and Three wars. Between that and all of the grinding you go through You're damn right they better be praising you. But I can see what the other side is talking about. Next time I'll spend 50-60 dollars on something that is constantly telling me that I stink.

Now onto Waifus

I'm sick and tired of Waifu "Wars"

In case you haven't noticed pairing wars happen all of the time. Just bc I like one pairing or character more than you and express it doesn't mean it's going to stop if Waifus are removed. It'll just go back to wars. Basically from MUXRandom girl to the IkeXSora and IkeXElincia wars for example. It's going to happen no matter what. DEAL WITH IT. There are obnoxious ppl out there I admit, but all you can do is ignore them. Removing this system isn't going to make them any less obnoxious.

I don't want to see kids again

This is just stupid. It's much more interesting to have supports with the parents and to mix and match to see all of those interactions. New supports are what keeps the game fresh. But I do agree with others that a time machine meeting idea shouldn't be repeated. They should take a page from Genealogy of the holy war for this one.

What's funny is that the series was already going down the "Waifu Wars" path anyway; remember, Radiant Dawn and Shadow Dragon caught a TON of flak for the simplifying and outright removal of Supports respectively. Which is why they reintroduced them partially in New Mystery of the Emblem and REALLY cranked them up in Awakening. I say it's just another feature to enjoy so removing it would be kinda foolish.

As for kids, I can't see them reappearing unless they do like Holy War. Maybe have it be a Phantasy Star 3 thing where the game takes place over generations. If they're not doing that, I don't see kids coming back. But that only makes me wonder what they could do to keep the Supports enticing besides just combat boosts.

[Ikari Shinji]

I'm a bit undecided when it comes to the marriage system. I prefer the support system in the older games but I had a lot of fun making overpowered baby super soldiers.

[szechuan]

I wish so much these 2 features from Awakening return, it makes the game feels like you are actually playing it, and you are inside of the game. On the waifu's fanservice, i'll just say is the non-strictly-gameplay feature that I enjoyed the most and i wish it returns!!!! Waifus and husbandos for the win :D

[DeadGame]

I liked the supportsystem in Awakening.. but not what people made out of it.

"Waifus", who even invented this inane word. Up until recently I didn't even know this game is seen as some sort of a dating simulator by some people.

Fire Emblem is about managing your units and thinking three steps ahead, GAMEPLAY, not debating on which female unit you'd like to go on a date with!

My vote goes to "waifus" not returning, though as I said, I liked the supportsystem.

(Edit: Grammar, please)

Edited January 15, 2015 by FierceRagnar

[XenoEmblem]

Why people are getting so bent over something as optional as marriage I don't know. Don't want your characters to get married? Don't pair them up. Don't want children don't get them. As simple as that. Regardless of if the system is in the game or not people on the internet are going to ship (for reasons I'll never).

[Ownagepuffs]

@shadowknight I totally agree with pretty much everything you are saying.

Robin totally needed to have the choice to be every class to be a really cool character for the player. It would suck to be like "I made me, okay time to be my favorite class, oh wait I can't." That could kill the game right away. I also love awakenings story and thought it did wonders. In terms of Robins respect, obviously he is going to be respected, he is the man that made the choice that keep you and your spouse alive. Your going to love the hell out of Robin because Robin is the reason the army is advancing. Shipping was always a part of Fire Emblem only at least the system in awakening sort of made sense, the system of you get only X amount of times to support, "Sorry I've run out of conversations for my whole life, I would like to talk to you" is insanely dumb.

I think what most members on this forum don't understand is that even the majority of Fire Emblem fans are not like people on this forum. Most fans are casual, never really go in depth with these games, they likely don't even think of how to abuse stuff like pair up, like reclassing, they just want to have fun and try to make the best things they can. We shouldn't be reducing fun to make the game harder for the less then 1000 users here. IS is trying to make the game that appeals to the audiences that buy the games as well as new audiences. It's not like the game babies players, I've played every western Fire Emblem and 12 but I still had plenty of situations where I lost a unit, had to worry, and all that in Normal mode. In Hard mode I had a much harder time and I'm not a person who just bought awakening. I think games need that Smash Bros policy that they are made for the general fans first and the hard core fans second.

You joined this forum yesterday. That's an awfully strong generalization for someone who's been on the site for a day.

[powerserg]

You joined this forum yesterday. That's an awfully strong generalization for someone who's been on the site for a day.

True but I read every tread in this sub forum and a few other treads and that's the picture I got. Obviously the general audiences aren't crunching numbers like a lot of the people here. I've been using Serenes forest proper for years just never joined the boards until I felt like I had stuff to say.

BTW love your avatar.

[Naughx]

Avatar/MU = Okay.

Waifus = Not sure.

---

But since Awakening sold so well, waifus are going to be a thing.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Naughx

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

honestly, if children aren't in the game and aren't going to be done like in FE4 then marriage shouldn't exist outside of the endings.

[Shadow Knight]

@shadowknight I totally agree with pretty much everything you are saying.

Robin totally needed to have the choice to be every class to be a really cool character for the player. It would suck to be like "I made me, okay time to be my favorite class, oh wait I can't." That could kill the game right away. I also love awakenings story and thought it did wonders. In terms of Robins respect, obviously he is going to be respected, he is the man that made the choice that keep you and your spouse alive. Your going to love the hell out of Robin because Robin is the reason the army is advancing. Shipping was always a part of Fire Emblem only at least the system in awakening sort of made sense, the system of you get only X amount of times to support, "Sorry I've run out of conversations for my whole life, I would like to talk to you" is insanely dumb.

I think what most members on this forum don't understand is that even the majority of Fire Emblem fans are not like people on this forum. Most fans are casual, never really go in depth with these games, they likely don't even think of how to abuse stuff like pair up, like reclassing, they just want to have fun and try to make the best things they can. We shouldn't be reducing fun to make the game harder for the less then 1000 users here. IS is trying to make the game that appeals to the audiences that buy the games as well as new audiences. It's not like the game babies players, I've played every western Fire Emblem and 12 but I still had plenty of situations where I lost a unit, had to worry, and all that in Normal mode. In Hard mode I had a much harder time and I'm not a person who just bought awakening. I think games need that Smash Bros policy that they are made for the general fans first and the hard core fans second.

Agreed. But to be honest I became a hardcore FE player bc of Awakening. I beat the story on Hard, than Lunatic, and Lunatic + and Once I got to the latter 2 I got creamed several times. The game is not all of a sudden incredibly easy bc of supports and OP kids. On the harder difficulties you're lucky to make it past the first 3 levels. Awakening is what you make of it. If you want a harder time than you can just play without grinding. You don't have to grind at all if you want to. You don't have to use MU at all until the last level if you don't want to. If you're miserable with Awakening than that's your own fault for not playing it like you want to play it.

What's funny is that the series was already going down the "Waifu Wars" path anyway; remember, Radiant Dawn and Shadow Dragon caught a TON of flak for the simplifying and outright removal of Supports respectively. Which is why they reintroduced them partially in New Mystery of the Emblem and REALLY cranked them up in Awakening. I say it's just another feature to enjoy so removing it would be kinda foolish.

As for kids, I can't see them reappearing unless they do like Holy War. Maybe have it be a Phantasy Star 3 thing where the game takes place over generations. If they're not doing that, I don't see kids coming back. But that only makes me wonder what they could do to keep the Supports enticing besides just combat boosts.

Agreed. It's just like I said with Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. No MU does not mean:No pairing/character favoritism wars. There were IkeXElincia vs. IkeXSorin wars. Lyn/Eliwood vs. Lyn/Hector. Heck I remember back in the day when MarthXNyna and MarthXShiida duked it out every so often.

I thought that the support system in FEA was perfect. Once again if you don't like it then don't use it. In the previous fire emblem games I never felt like the main army was even as close as they said they were. It was just continuous one on one, one on one, one on one. Now you actually have units fighting together as a team watching eachother's backs and working together to take down the enemy. Pegasus knights can be used smartly to move heavy units to the front lines. The dialogue needs to be expanded though instead of generic quotes every single time.

I would like to see kids return but not in a time machine way. It would be interesting to see a time-skip where if you reached an S class with 2 units and they had a child, if both parents survive they would have a different support than if only one parent survived.

[Aiddon]

Agreed. It's just like I said with Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. No MU does not mean:No pairing/character favoritism wars. There were IkeXElincia vs. IkeXSorin wars. Lyn/Eliwood vs. Lyn/Hector. Heck I remember back in the day when MarthXNyna and MarthXShiida duked it out every so often.

I thought that the support system in FEA was perfect. Once again if you don't like it then don't use it. In the previous fire emblem games I never felt like the main army was even as close as they said they were. It was just continuous one on one, one on one, one on one. Now you actually have units fighting together as a team watching eachother's backs and working together to take down the enemy. Pegasus knights can be used smartly to move heavy units to the front lines. The dialogue needs to be expanded though instead of generic quotes every single time.

I would like to see kids return but not in a time machine way. It would be interesting to see a time-skip where if you reached an S class with 2 units and they had a child, if both parents survive they would have a different support than if only one parent survived.

Actually, finally thought of something for a marriage system. Okay, I don't expect kids to return just because I don't think they wanna do that twice in a row. However, I think they still need to give some kind of gameplay incentive in order to want the player to pair people up and make marriage desirable. So this is what I'm thinking: what if S Rank supports can teach their partners something? Like maybe they gain new classes, unlock new abilities, etc. You could essentially keep their interaction going beyond S Rank see them interact as a married couple instead of just leading up to it. The only times we got that in Awakening were with the DLC episodes like Summer Scramble (one of my favorites was a married Tharja clearly showing jealousy over Robin's responsibilities still getting in the way of their relationship despite how they're married. It showed a cute side of her you didn't see elsewhere.) I'd just want to get some character interaction beyond courting.

[Leif]

as someone who's bi, i don't give a fuck about sexual diversity.

also

>mass effect

>doing sexual diversity well.

yeah right, in the first two games, female shep could totally be gay and noone batted an eyelash or cared, then in 3 they allowed male shep to be gay as well and suddenly its a big deal.

not to mention lets be real, bioware hasn't been good for years now.

I know bioware hasn't been performing spectacularly. I guess I wasn't clear when I said "Mass Effect" I should have been more explicit and said "Mass Effect 3". The first two entries to the series were a start towards sexual diversity in video games, but they weren't perfect.

I guess my point was that I really appreciate Bioware's efforts to include more diversity in their narratives and that other companies should move towards that level of progressiveness.

As for Fire Emblem if, I know in my heart that there probably won't be more romance options for the avatar; it's a pipe dream, honestly. I don't want romance to define Fire Emblem, because strategy is the focus of the game, but it would be nice to have more options should they include marriage again.

I'll stop my liberal rant.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Leif

[powerserg]

I know bioware hasn't been performing spectacularly. I guess I wasn't clear when I said "Mass Effect" I should have been more explicit and said "Mass Effect 3". The first two entries to the series were a start towards sexual diversity in video games, but they weren't perfect.

I guess my point was that I really appreciate Bioware's efforts to include more diversity in their narratives and that other companies should more towards that level of progressiveness.

As for Fire Emblem if, I know in my heart that there probably won't be more romance options for the avatar; it's a pipe dream, honestly. I don't want romance to define Fire Emblem, because strategy is the focus of the game, but it would be nice to have more options should they include marriage again.

I agree, while Bioware hasn't been tip top it means the world to me that they are still bringing in representation of any kind. It's not perfect but it's better then "You can't be gay." I don't want everyone to be gay I just want a few none hetro or binary characters. That's all I want, in a whole massive army of choices that people can chose to use or not I would like maybe 4 characters.

Agreed. But to be honest I became a hardcore FE player bc of Awakening. I beat the story on Hard, than Lunatic, and Lunatic + and Once I got to the latter 2 I got creamed several times. The game is not all of a sudden incredibly easy bc of supports and OP kids. On the harder difficulties you're lucky to make it past the first 3 levels. Awakening is what you make of it. If you want a harder time than you can just play without grinding. You don't have to grind at all if you want to. You don't have to use MU at all until the last level if you don't want to. If you're miserable with Awakening than that's your own fault for not playing it like you want to play it.

Yah I loved the play it your way aspect of Fire Emblem awakening and it wasn't done as poorly as lets say for example again Pokemon OR/AS. Where the play it your way no matter what way you played unless it was horrible was going to be a very very easy game that lacked real choices to increase challenge. This game gives 3 hard difficulties, perma death, crit rates, and a whole bunch of things that have to keep players on their toes.

Actually, finally thought of something for a marriage system. Okay, I don't expect kids to return just because I don't think they wanna do that twice in a row. However, I think they still need to give some kind of gameplay incentive in order to want the player to pair people up and make marriage desirable. So this is what I'm thinking: what if S Rank supports can teach their partners something? Like maybe they gain new classes, unlock new abilities, etc. You could essentially keep their interaction going beyond S Rank see them interact as a married couple instead of just leading up to it. The only times we got that in Awakening were with the DLC episodes like Summer Scramble (one of my favorites was a married Tharja clearly showing jealousy over Robin's responsibilities still getting in the way of their relationship despite how they're married. It showed a cute side of her you didn't see elsewhere.) I'd just want to get some character interaction beyond courting.

Oh my god I totally love your idea, it's freaking brilliant. I would love to see things happen beyond getting married, I didn't like "I love you, now never speak to me again."