Why is Pair Up back????

[Kiseki]

If Pair Up is back, then...

They could at least let the enemy mooks use it. Send the player's OP tactic back at them.

Though yes, I would like to see it nerfed.

[thecrimsonflash]

Instead of nerfing it I would prefer to see it just be removed they have given me one strategy for every map

pair up and pray that everyone survives

[Chocolate Kitty]

how about they just

allow pair up with no boosted stats

you know

like rescue

[Ansem]

how about they just

allow pair up with no boosted stats

you know

like rescue

Rescue actually nerfed your stats lol

[Ϲharlie]

Pair up with no boosted stats is nothing like rescue.

[General Banzai]

pairup is sick and adds a lot of strategic diversity, you guys are just too busy playing baby mode

[darkmega926]

I think a way to balance the pair up system is to reduce the stat boost amount, and to give the unit a unique ability to use in battle depending on which class it paired up with.

For example if a unit paired up with a thief, the thief has a 15% chance to steal an item in battle.

[powerserg]

It's a single player game and even if they added versus foes would have access to Pair up anyway. I don't think there is anything wrong with having something that is over powered in a game so long as everyone as equal access and it doesn't centralize the game. If one pair up was the only option that would suck. I just hope you can build relationships with more characters of the same sex this time.

[Queen Sars]

If Pair Up is back, then...

They could at least let the enemy mooks use it. Send the player's OP tactic back at them.

Though yes, I would like to see it nerfed.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I wondered why the enemies never paired up if I could, it'd make it much more of a challenge and, I think, more even between the two factions if both could pair up.

Or you know if you hate pair up if there was a way to turn it off so no one could.

[fengaridotdll]

Took the words right out of my mouth. I wondered why the enemies never paired up if I could, it'd make it much more of a challenge and, I think, more even between the two factions if both could pair up.

Or you know if you hate pair up if there was a way to turn it off so no one could.

They likely thought it would magically turn the game into Thracia 776 if enemy mooks could pair up

[Mufanda]

pairup is sick and adds a lot of strategic diversity, you guys are just too busy playing baby mode

Not really. In almost every given situation, you just use it because rarely ever does it *not* help. Early game pairing up with Frederik in Lunatic mode makes Chrom able to become an incredibly powerful unit with a couple of levels and that defense. I'd rather just see Chrom have... You know, more defense instead of Chrom basically absorbing Freddy to become a tank and then use Freddy for a retreat for a quick heal or two.

Pair Up essentially becomes putting units together for more stats and dual strikes/guards than anything else. Sure, you can have some builds with leads and supports, but not in the base game anywhere soon enough for it to be a viable "strategy" without you having some sort of wiki so you know who has what skills and learns what in what class. This means that stats are what you want. It doesn't help that with supports, it makes it even more of a mess. Now hear me out on this one, because this sounds a bit strange initially. Dual Strike and Dual guards aren't strategical choices in any real sense of the word because it's a no brainer. Why wouldn't you want these bonuses? Challenge? That's about it. Well, there is map design, but none of the main maps in Awakening have it so... Moving on.

With supports, we know that dual guard chances as well as dual strike chances increase. So here's the issue. The people that join earlier are at a disgusting advantage that other units that join later are not. Utility units like Anna have little chances of being used as permanent members of your group, after all, there's not much to steal, and even if there were, she barely has any supports, which means ultimately less stats for pair up and less strikes/guards. Anna might have *had* use at some point, but she's going to fade unless you pair her up with Robin. Male Robin at that, because no way is FemRobin going to invest in that when she can literally invest in any male around her to get more bang for it and pop out a child because of it. And no one else is going to bother with her because they don't get anything from her. But at least Anna gets some use. Poor units like Basilio, Flavia, Tiki etc are pretty much worthless because of this mechanic. Comparing them to any unit you bothered with versus them and it's pretty hard to even consider using them. It'll essentially be someone that is S ranked versus a person that doesn't even have a single rank and might not even be higher leveled than the unit you used. Terrible. Simply terrible. And even worse? Most units can support each other, so it's not even like in earlier Fire Emblems where you had to kinda think about who you wanted to use to maximize support bonuses for chains . Sure, there were some exceptions like Sumia, and Chrom (I'm ignoring all of those other novelty characters), but most of them had huge list stretching more than a couple of scrolls down.

Pair Up isn't a terrible idea at base, but I just really hate the execution of it. I feel like for starters, characters in Pair Up should also be able to provide negatives as well as positives in pair up. Say, you pair up with a pegasus and you take on the trait of being weak to archers for instance but are blessed with 1 extra movement or something. Also, there should be more variety in maps. Tiki's map is a good example of when pair up is *not* necessarily the best choice. It's easier to defend Tiki than it is to wipe out all of the enemies (assuming you haven't grinded to hell and back). And more specifically, I wish the stats in Fire Emblem would stop being so gosh darn inflated. Radiant Dawn started that trend, and it keeps getting progressively more ridiculous. That said, the maps from what little we saw in the trailer seem to be a bit better, so there's hope that Pair Up isn't super broken this time around. IS seems to be pretty good about nerfing things from a prior game that was too strong... Here's hoping that they don't make Pair Up useless.

[XeKr]

The reason the enemy doesn’t Pair Up is because it is not thematically appropriate (your army’s bonds/relationships are supposedly what give you that advantage, while the enemy is composed mostly of generics) and because it would add RNG. Dual Guard is Avoid that essentially cannot be mitigated by better Hit rates, like Great Shield etc. Dual Strike would be like if the enemy got mastery skills in FE10, a random chance to do a lot more damage (though higher chance, less damage). This is pretty classic, RNG that favors you is more acceptable to most players, compared to RNG acting against you, despite what the actual statistical distributions are and such.

Effectively they have the Pair Up Stat bonuses (that is what people argue is the broken part, as again Dual in no Pair Up runs gets less criticism) inherently in L(+) and the harder DLCs anyways. This is partially what people mean what they say Pair Up is balanced around L(+), where you need the bonuses to remain competitive.

edit: Hmmm just a thought, if FE14 is, as speculated, east vs. west or a similar theme where we play both armies, we may see Pair Up on both sides.

Edited January 15, 2015 by XeKr

[Glaceon10]

I quite hate Pair-Up as well. I genuinely cannot think of a method of balancing it than replacing it with Rescue.

[Florete]

It was obvious Pair Up would be back lol. It's not a bad feature in theory at all, it just needs balance. Personally, I like the idea, I just hope they nerf it a bit.

[Mighty Kamina]

Pair-up just needs a nerf or two to fix it. I mean, giving enemies pair-up could work as a quick fix of sorts, as long as the enemy AI is smart enough to make proper use of it. Or maybe pair-up could not give any stat boosts, allies who dual strike do half damage, and dual guarding units take reduced damage instead of no damage?

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I think pair up would be alright if the damage was reduced instead of nullified.

...Buut I know nothing of game design.

Edited January 15, 2015 by L95

[ClassyWolf]

While I agree that Dual Guard and Pair Up need some serious tweaking, this would be counter productive IMO: I'm sticking my cleric with the knight so she can avoid being hit, not so that she can martyr herself with her 2 def to protect him from a "NO DAMAGE!" or be picked off by an archer. Making so that DG isn't complete innoculation from an attack however, is a good idea.

I think he means, that if the character would die from the hit, they wont do it, only if they could survive to take the beating, they'll jump in front of them, so your cleric would be fine, because she wouldn't jump to take the hit if she would die.

[Kiseki]

I think he means, that if the character would die from the hit, they wont do it, only if they could survive to take the beating, they'll jump in front of them, so your cleric would be fine, because she wouldn't jump to take the hit if she would die.

So, what you're saying is that the partner will take the hit for the main unit, factoring their Def/Res instead of the main unit's. In other words, squishy mages as partners wouldn't be as "viable" as armor knight partners in terms of defenses.

Adding on to this idea, one thing I thought of is that Dual Attacks can only occur if the partner can also attack from that range. I.e., a cavalier has an iron sword and a javelin in their inventory and is paired with a mage as a partner. Should the mage attack from afar, the cavalier must equip the javelin in order to Dual Attack, or else they can only guard. Should the mage attack from close range, then the cavalier can use the sword or the javelin to Dual Attack.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Kiseki

[Shadow Knight]

bc its a fantastic feature that feeds off of the support system that is a staple of fire emblem games.

[powerserg]

Really looking at the comments I think pair up should just have an option to be turned off so players can commit to not having it on. I think pair up was an important part of what made new people enjoy the game, I know my step brother was not a fan of the series but LOVED awakening thanks to pair up and the social link stuff. I don't think pair up was bad personally, I like using it, I don't have a problem with becoming OP because I worked a relationship, I actually like that. Maybe the feature is just removed from higher difficulties then normal or hard.

[Ryo]

Maybe the feature is just removed from higher difficulties then normal or hard.

But higher difficulties are actually where pair-up is especially needed though.

[Pete-of-the-Forge]

I'm torn. On one hand, I like plowing through enemies with minimal risk when I want to. But to be honest, the way the system worked really changed how I played the game, to the point where I didn't play it like a Fire Emblem game (yeah, I know I didn't have to use it, bbut still... I have OCD about being OP).

...so I also wouldn't mind a rich, balanced game like the olden days.

I don't think the idea is inherently bad. Natural Doctrine managed to do something similar (similar to Dual Strike anyway), and that game is no slouch in the strategy department.

[powerserg]

But higher difficulties are actually where pair-up is especially needed though.

Yah but fans that are complaining about it are the majority of the people it appeals to. I like when a Fire Emblem games stands out and I like when a game series builds on it's new titles instead of tears it down. I don't want this Fire Emblem game to be like awakening unless it's like awakening and better. I just want this Fire Emblem game to be the best version of this Fire Emblem it can be while keeping the series improvements.

[Lanko]

I'm torn on the Pair Up discussion.

On the Dual Guard, i agree that a priest completely negating a Berserker attack when a dual guard procced was strange. And for balance purposes, that unit should take damage, be it half or mitigated by defense/resistance. But then i would like to have an option to choose if i allow that Dual Guard to proc or not, so my units don't die in a ridiculous way.

On the other hand, i could imagine that enemy charging towards my unit and the pair up ally flanking or surprising the attacker, thus negating the attack. Or the lover of the attacked unit furiosly jumping to protect his/her partner. Or children/parents fully protecting their parent/children. It has a lot of flavor for me.

Maybe it should always be mitigated by Defense/Resistance with a chance for full negate depending on Support level, instead of a full negate every time it procs (the game would tell you if it is gonna be a full negate).

On Dual Attack i would also like to choose if i allow to activate or not. I remember some deaths when i was like "ok, i'm in a bridge, can only be attacked by one enemy. I'm gonna attack this guy, receive some damage back. On enemy turn we will trade blows again and on my turn i will kill him". Then Dual Attack procs and a new enemy comes and attacks you. Dual Attack procs again, you kill that enemy, a new one charges and kills you.

Ok, that's very rare and on Pair Up you can disarm your partner to prevent that, but you can't do that if you are not paired up and have friendly units around you. Well, tecnically you can if you do it beforehand, but it's strange that sometimes you are hoping the thing doesn't proc. So it should have an option asking if you want the partner to follow up as well. And maybe they only do half damage or something. Does Dual Attack uses the durability of a weapon? I don't remember.

And yea, Pair Up should give penalties as well. A Pegasus Knight carrying a General around and not losing Speed is...strange, to say the least, especially if you fighting in an area that you are clearly flying (like in open sea on ship maps). In this case the Pegasus should definitely receive a Speed penalty.

But what about if it's paired with another flyer, like a Wyvern Rider? In this case they would not be carrying the unit and their mount on the Pegasus back (lol), they would be flying side by side, so why should they receive a penalty?

Well, i guess that would be a lot of work to program (or not).

Edited January 15, 2015 by Lanko

[astrophys]

Well, if we're trying to tone down Dual Guards, I don't think making the rear unit take damage is the way to do it, as that defeats the point of wanting to keep a squished unit in the rear.

Instead, if we're talking about ways to approach it without granting automatic immunity, perhaps some fraction of the rear ally's total relevant defensive stat could be added to their ally when Dual Guard triggers in addition to any existing pair-up bonuses.

Although I really don't mind the Dual Guard system as it is now.